OldTools Archive
Recent | Bios | FAQ |
40520 | DNRSchwartz <dnrs@e...> | 1998‑03‑31 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
At 05:08 PM 3/31/98 -0500, Patrick Leach wrote: >Hi guys, > > Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in >Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less. > > Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and >have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- >ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words >"Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them >pissed. > You know, it's this sorta thing that makes people hole up in a tar paper cabin in Montana, eating grubbs, and laying in ammo. Jeez o' flip. Do you think "St*nl*y Blood and Gore" will offend them? "Bailey Blood & Gore"? "Kleenex Blood & Gore"? "Xerox"? "Lawyer Blood & Gore"? How 'bout, "Massive U.S. Bench Plane Manufacturing Company that Stopped Making REALLY Good Planes After WWII and Slowly Went Downhill From There Until They Moved to England and Taiwan Blood & Gore"? Too bulky. Just a thought. Chris N. Schwartz, Feral Brewer... Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he wastes a lifetime. http://mav.net/darc/prbc/ |
|||
40530 | William H. Fissell <whf@a...> | 1998‑03‑31 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Unbelievable... You give a company more advertising, and do more to remember their history than they do, and they worry about trademark infringement? They also don't have a chance, unless they propose to ban all discussion of Stanley tools, and by extension, Ford trucks, movies, trademarked computers, and all other discourse about concrete items rather than abstract ideas, from all media. I hereby pledge not less than $250.00 US to any legal fund you may need. Bill Fissell GIT at 31 |
|||
40499 | Patrick Leach <leach@s...> | 1998‑03‑31 | Love them lawyers.... |
Hi guys, Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less. Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them pissed. They tell me this is all deliberate infringement. Yeah, that's what it is, deliberate. I'm glad to know that them lawyers know what's going on in my head, even when I don't. I've been told that all references have to be re- moved by April 15 (my favorite day of the year). Any lawyers out there who wanna take on a corporate giant for yucks? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Leach Just say Lawyers, gotta love 'em. etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|||
40518 | Eric Johnson <eric@t...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Patrick Leach wrote: > > Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in > Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less. I'm not a lawyer, but I think I have a winning defense for you. We galoots worship our planes. Getting rid of the Blood and Gore would infringe on our rights to practice religion as we see fit. One caveat: You might want to change the description of the #6 before trying this approach :-) -- Eric Johnson ericj@t... http://www.the-johnsons.com |
|||
40523 | Mike Tillson <miket@c...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Perhaps we could threaten to boycott all of that new crap, I mean "newly designed material" that they are selling currently. It may not stop them, but it may befudle them for a while. Mike |
|||
40529 | Don Groves <groves@a...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
At 17:08 3/31/98 -0500, Patrick Leach wrote: >Hi guys, > > Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in >Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less. > > Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and >have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- >ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words >"Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them >pissed. > > They tell me this is all deliberate infringement. How the hell can it be "infringement" to describe a product? That's absurd! All I can see that maybe you should change would be to put (TM) or (R), or whatever, after "Stanley" wherever you use it and also add a paragraph like "Stanley is a registered trademark of ..." somewhere in your document. Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R) B&G right now! Tool A Galoot, Don Groves Oregon City, Oregon USA ------------------------------- Galoots Are Lovers Of Old Tools ------------------------------- |
|||
40549 | David Boreham <davidb@i...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Um, perhaps they sent the letter a day too early ??? |
|||
40551 | HeyzaD <HeyzaD@a...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Patrick laments Stanley's bonehead attitude: << I've been told that all references have to be re- moved by April 15 (my favorite day of the year). >> Why not do a search and replace and replace Stanley with Bob? No more "infringement" and "Bob's your uncle". ;-) Dennis |
|||
40531 | Walter Barry <wdwrkr@i...> | 1998‑04‑01 | RE: Love them lawyers.... |
> Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and >have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- > ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words > "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them > pissed. > They tell me this is all deliberate infringement. Patrick, This doesn't seem right. I mean do they really have a leg to stand on? You wrote a book, just like John Walter's or Roger Smith, or even Alvin Sellin's did. Whether it's on the net or on paper it's still freedom of speech. Unless you try to capitalize on the Stanley(tm) name, which your obviously not since you marketed your tools under a different name. I guess then according to their thinking, the Museum of Woodworking Tools, and over 2-3 dozen independent galoot web sites would also be in "deliberate infringement" for writing about Stanley tools, and reprinting information. I had sent Ralph copies on catalog pages for marking gages a long time ago. Are they going after him next? Or how about Bob Kuane's BedRock study? Lot's of Stanley logos there too. In fact, why not go directly after the MWTCA and their site, and all tool organizations. Of course everyone on this list, probably over 900 galoots, have probably already visited and benefited from your site. As a group that should hold some weight, especially if we choose to petition, write about them, or boycott their products. Wasn't Stanley "nice" enough to host a collectors picnic for John Walters a few years back. I remember seeing the pic's in the old STCN. What did you do different to piss 'em off, Pat? Walter |
|||
40556 | J. Gunterman <john@g...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
At 7:38 PM -0800 3/31/98, Don Groves wrote: >Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R) >B&G right now! ummm.... You Can't do that.... (unless Pat gives us permission) It's _Copywrited_ (Douuuuuuu ;-) I don't have a lot of jing, but I'm willing to kick into the Leach Legal Fund..... If he wants to go toe-to-toe w/ Stanley, I don't want lack of money to be the reason he lost the battle. - L8r, John |
|||
40561 | Bob A <antoniew@q...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Perhaps you can get Tenspeed Press or another publishing company to print it. Then it should be protected by freedom of speech (of course, I think it should be protected in it's present form too!) I, for one would buy a copy, and think of all those galoots out there who aren't connected to the net! Sounds like a bestseller! Bob A. Patrick Leach wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in > Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less. > > Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and > have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- > ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words > "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them > pissed. |
|||
40563 | Louis Michaud <louis_michaud@U...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
At 19:38 31/03/98 -0800, you wrote: >Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R) >B&G right now! > > >Don Groves >Oregon City, Oregon USA You can't just download and print, the B&G has copyright protection. You'll get a letter from Mr. Leach's attorney... Just kidding !!!! Louis |
|||
40567 | Todd Stock <tstock@m...> | 1998‑04‑01 | RE: Love them lawyers.... |
GG's: Stanley's email address for 'comment' on Patrick's current trouble with their pin-head, pencil-neck, anti-movie-popcorn, we-know-better-than-you lawyers at Stanley is: HandTools@m... I'll be dropping them a line to the effect that me and a few of my hundred-thousand closest Web-reachable friends will choose Brand X for our next garage door opener or whatever Stanley makes. I'm starting today - just cancelled an order through Home Despot for 40 sets of decorative solid brass Stanley cabinet face-mount hinges at $2.89 per. Ives has the same design for a few pennies more. If you really want to get their attention, let them know each time you forego purchase of a Stanley product. Todd Stock |
|||
40568 | Michael R. Shortreed <mshort@C...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Hi All. Wow what a conundrum. This would be a loss of a tremendous resource. There seem's to be something similar goin on in the music world. I guess that the music industry is bigger than stanley anyway. Some of you have probably heard of olga (online guitar archive). There are posts of music for many popular songs. People download them to study, learn and play. The music industry tried and failed to squash it at least for now. In the meantime, the following disclaimer is posted with every song. I think something similar could be used for your site. I'm sure that all us galoots are just in it for the education anyway. I'm certainly not in it for any monetary gain.:) As a side note, do any of you remember the little boy that burned down his trailer home after watching an episode of Beavis and Butthead. The following quote was from a fan worried about the future of the show. "This is just the kind of thing that brings down the million pound s#$ihammer of divine retribution." I'll bet I laughed for 20 minutes. Anyway, onto the quote from olga. >You may only use this archive for private study, scholarship, or >research. If your intentions are otherwise, do not proceed into this >archive. >The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) >governs the making >of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. > >Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are >authorized to >furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. One of these specified >conditions is that the >photocopy or reproduction is not to be "used for any purpose other than >private study, >scholarship, or research." If a user makes a request for, or later uses, >a >photocopy or >reproduction for purposes in excess of "fair use," that user may be >liable >for copyright >infringement. On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrick Leach wrote: > Hi guys, > > Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in > Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less. > > Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and > have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- > ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words > "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them > pissed. > > They tell me this is all deliberate infringement. > Yeah, that's what it is, deliberate. I'm glad to know > that them lawyers know what's going on in my head, even > when I don't. > > I've been told that all references have to be re- > moved by April 15 (my favorite day of the year). > > Any lawyers out there who wanna take on a corporate > giant for yucks? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Patrick Leach > Just say Lawyers, gotta love 'em. > etc. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- |
|||
40618 | Jake Spiller <spiller@B...> | 1998‑04‑01 | RE: Love them lawyers.... |
Todd Stock wrote: > > GG's: > > Stanley's email address for 'comment' on Patrick's current trouble with > their pin-head, pencil-neck, anti-movie-popcorn, we-know-better-than-you > lawyers at Stanley is: > > HandTools@m... > > |
|||
40581 | Joe Nance <jnance@c...> | 1998‑04‑01 | RE: Love them lawyers.... |
Maybe just describe it as Olie's Partner B & G. Same intelligence level and fumbling ways. What could be a better advertisement for these clowns anyway? Joe |
|||
40591 | Ron Hock <ron@h...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
I, too, would be willing to throw some money at a legal defense fund for Patrick (not $250, perhaps, but something). Hey, Patrick, how about I post the B&G on MY web site, too. Anyone else wanna post the evil document? How many cease and desist letters do you think they can generate? 'Course, I use the name "Stanley" in my promotional material. Am I next? Ron where the hell's Zorro when you need him? Ron Hock ron@h... http://www.hocktools.com Hock Handmade Knives 16650 Mitchell Creek Drive Fort Bragg, CA 95437 (707) 964-2782 fax (707) 964-7816 |
|||
40597 | Dan Attaway <attaway@p...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
I have a solution! Just do what the founders of a lot of towns here in Texas did when they wished to use was already taken. Spell it backwards. Anybody want to see 'Yelnats Blood and Gore?' Dan Attaway attaway@p... PLATINUM technology, inc. |
|||
40603 | Tom Moye <tommo@w...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re[2]: Love them lawyers.... |
At [Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:25:06 -0800] Some one wrote: > where the hell's Zorro when you need him? >From what I've heard Zorro usually stays at home, in bed on April 1 because he is very gullible and is often fooled to the point of near terminal embarassment. Tom Moye Seattle |
|||
40607 | Chris Dunn <a065117@U...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Mike Tillson wrote: > > Perhaps we could threaten to boycott all of that new crap, I mean > "newly designed material" that they are selling currently. It may not > stop them, but it may befudle them for a while. > > Mike I thought we were already doing that by default in our endeavor to colle... uh, use old tools ...... Chris - who wonders if Walter, Roberts, Smith, et al will all be included in this assinine exercise being instigated by greedy lawyers (redundancy?) who have discovered a cash cow with deep pockets. Also, I wonder what the Stanley stockholders would think about their assets being squandered to line their lawyer's pockets ....... |
|||
40636 | Boris A. Karaman <boris@a...> | 1998‑04‑01 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
> > I don't have a lot of jing, but I'm willing to kick into the Leach Legal > Fund..... If he wants to go toe-to-toe w/ Stanley, I don't want lack of > money to be the reason he lost the battle. > > - > L8r, > John > I'd like to echo John's offer. I will kick in to the Leach legal fund if he wants to take on the bully Stanley. It appears Stanley spends more energy in unfounded and ridiculous legal harassment for the sake of "its name" than it does in making better tools. If Stanley should sue anyone for abusing the name, it should be --> Stanley post WWII. Boris boris@a... > |
|||
40627 | John Rice <johr@c...> | 1998‑04‑02 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
So, to a universal word change. Stanley=Leach. Let it be the first official secret of the Honorific Order of Galoots (secret word "schhhhhhhhhhk"). John EVERYBODY hates lawyers until they need one. > > They tell me this is all deliberate infringement. > Yeah, that's what it is, deliberate. I'm glad to know > that them lawyers know what's going on in my head, even > when I don't. > |
|||
40638 | Don Groves <groves@a...> | 1998‑04‑02 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
At 06:42 4/1/98 -0400, J. Gunterman wrote: >At 7:38 PM -0800 3/31/98, Don Groves wrote: > >>Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R) >>B&G right now! > >ummm.... >You Can't do that.... (unless Pat gives us permission) >It's _Copywrited_ (Douuuuuuu ;-) I should have put a smiley after that statement, I don't have that many reams of printer paper on hand anyway ;-) >I don't have a lot of jing, but I'm willing to kick into the Leach Legal >Fund..... If he wants to go toe-to-toe w/ Stanley, I don't want lack of >money to be the reason he lost the battle. Me too, but after reading some of the responses on the list and the emails to Stanley(R), I'm thinking that Stanley(R) will back down... Tool A Galoot, Don Groves Oregon City, Oregon USA ------------------------------- Galoots Are Lovers Of Old Tools ------------------------------- |
|||
40642 | Jack Kamishlian <KamishlianJ@p...> | 1998‑04‑02 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Patrick, Count me in for support on the Legal Fund. It doesn't make sense to me why Stanley would take such an action, but I'd like to be added to those in your corner. Thanks, Jack |
|||
40624 | Nat H <nhoop@c...> | 1998‑04‑02 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
> Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and >have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise- >ments, use of the word "Stanley", Does that mean that from now on we should only refer to st*nl*y with a small "s"? Nat |
|||
40671 | J. Mark Lane <jmlane@e...> | 1998‑04‑02 | Re: Love them lawyers.... |
Wow, I get too busy to read email and look what happens.... As one of the lawyers on the list, I have to say this is ridiculous. I can't even imagine what their legal theory is. Certainly it's not a copyright issue, since the fair comment doctrine would protect and reprint of Stanley material per se. Trademark? Requires risk of confusion, last time I looked. Lots of people have written about lots of companies. Last I heard, there was still a First Amendment in this country. Defamation? Bullshit. Truth is a defense, even if something in there could be interpreted as defamatory. Product disparagement? Tough one, at best. I think they're just assholes. So Patrick, contact me if you want to talk about it. Phone: (914) 777-3670; fax (914) 698-5479. And I certainly don't intend to add my name to the list of Lawyers Who Deserve To Die by asking you for any money. As my little lawyer doll says when you push it's stomach, "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" Yours, Mark Lane |
|||
40675 | Ted Scott <ted@H...> | 1998‑04‑02 | RAH Rah Shish Boom Ba ! Re: Love them lawyers.... |
On 2 Apr 98 at 10:35, J. Mark Lane wrote: > Wow, I get too busy to read email and look what happens.... > As one of the lawyers on the list, I have to say this is ridiculous. Mark & Patrick, If the gripe that a tool company is posting the name Stanley on its web site is legit, I will soon have a machine on the web with 24hour availability that I will donate space and a shell account to Patrick so he can maintain the S B&G in its original form. I'm certain there will be no shortage of people willing to sign affadavids as to the the scholarly nature of the B&G, It certainly taught me a thing or two, or fifty. I for one would like to see a public and sincere apology to Patrick from Big Yellow. Let me know how to help. -Ted Hootin Holler Joinery 301.748.0400 Fine Furniture and Architectural Woodwork. http://hootinholler.com |
|||
Recent | Bios | FAQ |