At 05:08 PM 3/31/98 -0500, Patrick Leach wrote:
>Hi guys,
> 
>  Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in
>Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less.
>
>  Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
>have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
>ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
>"Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
>pissed.
>

You know, it's this sorta thing that makes people hole up in a tar paper
cabin in Montana, eating grubbs, and laying in ammo.  Jeez o' flip.

Do you think "St*nl*y Blood and Gore" will offend them?  "Bailey Blood &
Gore"?  "Kleenex Blood & Gore"?  "Xerox"?  "Lawyer Blood & Gore"?  How
'bout, "Massive U.S. Bench Plane Manufacturing Company that Stopped Making
REALLY Good Planes After WWII and Slowly Went Downhill From There Until
They Moved to England and Taiwan Blood & Gore"?  Too bulky.  Just a thought.

		Chris  N.  Schwartz,  Feral Brewer... 
Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour.  Teach a man to brew, and he
wastes a lifetime.
http://mav.net/darc/prbc/

Unbelievable...

You give a company more advertising, and do more to remember their
history than they do, and they worry about trademark infringement?

They also don't have a chance, unless they propose to ban all discussion
of Stanley tools, and by extension, Ford trucks, movies, trademarked
computers, and all other discourse about concrete items rather than
abstract ideas, from all media.

I hereby pledge not less than $250.00 US to any legal fund you may need. 

Bill Fissell
GIT at 31

Hi guys,
 
  Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in
Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less.

  Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
"Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
pissed.

  They tell me this is all deliberate infringement.
Yeah, that's what it is, deliberate. I'm glad to know
that them lawyers know what's going on in my head, even
when I don't.

  I've been told that all references have to be re-
moved by April 15 (my favorite day of the year).

  Any lawyers out there who wanna take on a corporate
giant for yucks?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Leach
Just say Lawyers, gotta love 'em.
etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Leach wrote:
> 
>   Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in
> Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think I have a winning defense for you.  We
galoots worship our planes.  Getting rid of the Blood and Gore would
infringe on our rights to practice religion as we see fit.

One caveat:  You might want to change the description of the #6 before
trying this approach :-)

-- 
Eric Johnson
ericj@t...
http://www.the-johnsons.com

Perhaps we could threaten to boycott all of that new crap, I mean
"newly designed material" that they are selling currently. It may not
stop them, but it may befudle them for a while.

Mike

At 17:08 3/31/98 -0500, Patrick Leach wrote:
>Hi guys,
> 
>  Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in
>Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less.
>
>  Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
>have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
>ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
>"Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
>pissed.
>
>  They tell me this is all deliberate infringement.

How the hell can it be "infringement" to describe a product?
That's absurd!   All I can see that maybe you should change
would be to put (TM) or (R), or whatever, after "Stanley"
wherever you use it and also add a paragraph like "Stanley
is a registered trademark of ..."  somewhere in your document.

Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R)
B&G right now!

Tool A Galoot,

Don Groves
Oregon City, Oregon USA
-------------------------------
Galoots Are Lovers Of Old Tools
-------------------------------

Um, perhaps they sent the letter a day too early ???

Patrick laments Stanley's bonehead attitude:

<<   I've been told that all references have to be re-
 moved by April 15 (my favorite day of the year). >>

Why not do a search and replace and replace Stanley with Bob? No more
"infringement" and "Bob's your uncle".     ;-)

Dennis

>  Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
>have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
> ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
> "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
> pissed.
> They tell me this is all deliberate infringement.

Patrick, 
   This doesn't seem right.  I mean do they really have a leg 
to stand on?  You wrote a book, just like John Walter's or
Roger Smith, or even Alvin Sellin's did.   Whether it's on the 
net or on paper it's still freedom of speech.   Unless you try
to capitalize on the Stanley(tm) name, which your obviously
not since you marketed your tools under a different name.

I guess then according to their thinking, the Museum of 
Woodworking Tools, and over 2-3 dozen independent 
galoot web sites would also be in "deliberate infringement"
for writing about Stanley tools, and reprinting information.
I had sent Ralph copies on catalog pages for marking gages
a long time ago.  Are they going after him next?  Or how 
about Bob Kuane's BedRock study?  Lot's of Stanley logos
there too.  In fact, why not go directly after the MWTCA 
and their site, and all tool organizations.

Of course everyone on this list, probably over 900 galoots, 
have probably already visited and benefited from your site.
As a group that should hold some weight, especially if we
choose to petition, write about them, or boycott their products.

Wasn't Stanley "nice" enough to host a collectors picnic
for John Walters a few years back.  I remember seeing
the pic's in the old STCN.  What did you do different to 
piss 'em off, Pat?

Walter

At 7:38 PM -0800 3/31/98, Don Groves wrote:

>Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R)
>B&G right now!

ummm....
You Can't do that.... (unless Pat gives us permission)
It's _Copywrited_ (Douuuuuuu ;-)

I don't have a lot of jing, but I'm willing to kick into the Leach Legal
Fund..... If he wants to go toe-to-toe w/ Stanley, I don't want lack of
money to be the reason he lost the battle.

-
L8r,
John

Perhaps you can get Tenspeed Press or another publishing company to
print it.  Then it should be protected by freedom of speech (of course,
I think it should be protected in it's present form too!)  I, for one
would buy a copy, and think of all those galoots out there who aren't
connected to the net!  Sounds like a bestseller!

Bob A.

Patrick Leach wrote:
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
>   Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in
> Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less.
> 
>   Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
> have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
> ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
> "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
> pissed.

At 19:38 31/03/98 -0800, you wrote:  

>Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R)
>B&G right now!
>
 
>
>Don Groves
>Oregon City, Oregon USA 

You can't just download and print, the B&G has copyright
protection. You'll get a letter from Mr. Leach's attorney...
Just kidding !!!!
Louis

GG's:

Stanley's email address for 'comment' on Patrick's current trouble with 
their pin-head, pencil-neck, anti-movie-popcorn, we-know-better-than-you 
lawyers at Stanley is:

HandTools@m...

I'll be dropping them a line to the effect that me and a few of my 
hundred-thousand closest Web-reachable friends will choose Brand X for our 
next garage door opener or whatever Stanley makes.

I'm starting today - just cancelled an order through Home Despot for 40 
sets of decorative solid brass Stanley cabinet face-mount hinges at $2.89 
per.  Ives has the same design for a few pennies more.

If you really want to get their attention, let them know each time you 
forego purchase of a Stanley product.

Todd Stock

Hi All.  Wow what a conundrum.  This would be a loss of a tremendous
resource.  There seem's to be something similar goin on in the music
world.  I guess that the music industry is bigger than stanley anyway.
Some of you have probably heard of olga (online guitar archive).  There
are posts of music for many popular songs.  People download them to study,
learn and play.  The music industry tried and failed to squash it at least
for now.  In the meantime, the following disclaimer is posted with every
song.  I think something similar could be used for your site.  I'm sure
that all us galoots are just in it for the education anyway.  I'm
certainly not in it for any monetary gain.:)

As a side note, do any of you remember the little boy that burned down his
trailer home after watching an episode of Beavis and Butthead.  The
following quote was from a fan worried about the future of the show.

"This is just the kind of thing that brings down the million pound
s#$ihammer of divine retribution."

I'll bet I laughed for 20 minutes.  Anyway, onto the quote from olga.

>You may only use this archive for private study, scholarship, or
>research. If your intentions are otherwise, do not proceed into this
>archive.     

>The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code)
>governs the making
>of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. 
>
>Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are
>authorized to
>furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. One of these specified
>conditions is that the
>photocopy or reproduction is not to be "used for any purpose other than
>private study,
>scholarship, or research." If a user makes a request for, or later uses,
>a
>photocopy or
>reproduction for purposes in excess of "fair use," that user may be
>liable
>for copyright
>infringement. 

On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrick Leach wrote:

> Hi guys,
>  
>   Just got a nice letter from some attorneys down in
> Washington, DC. By Federal Express, no less.
> 
>   Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
> have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
> ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
> "Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
> pissed.
> 
>   They tell me this is all deliberate infringement.
> Yeah, that's what it is, deliberate. I'm glad to know
> that them lawyers know what's going on in my head, even
> when I don't.
> 
>   I've been told that all references have to be re-
> moved by April 15 (my favorite day of the year).
> 
>   Any lawyers out there who wanna take on a corporate
> giant for yucks?
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Patrick Leach
> Just say Lawyers, gotta love 'em.
> etc.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------

Todd Stock wrote:
> 
> GG's:
> 
> Stanley's email address for 'comment' on Patrick's current trouble with 
> their pin-head, pencil-neck, anti-movie-popcorn, we-know-better-than-you 
> lawyers at Stanley is:
> 
> HandTools@m...
> 
> 

The following is a copy of my letter to Stanley.  I think that the
most effective thing we can do is let Stanley know that they are
losing sales because of this farce.  Do your part, let them know.
BTW, my subject line to Stanley was "You may lose a customer".

Jake

To whom it may concern;

My avocation is collecting old tools.  I also happen to remodel homes.

What does this have to do with Stanley?   Recently, you sent a very
official letter to one Patrick Leach to remove, in my opinion, one
of the best references for older (pre WW2) Stanley tools.  Patrick
Leach is one of the most respected and best known dealers of old tools
in the country.  He is also one of the most knowledgable.  He has
spent years compiling information about Stanley tools and has been
kind enough to share that information through his Stanley B&G website.

Now I can't do much about you forcing him to remove this excellent tool
reference, but I can do this.  I can promise that I won't buy another
Stanley product until you send him a letter stating that this was just
an unforunate error.  Just so I make myself very clear, that means no
more Stanley doors and hardware.  No more Stanley handtools.  No more
Stanley-Bostitch products.

I hope you will reconsider your position on Patrick Leach's website.

Sincerely,
Jake Spiller

--
*******************************************************************************
Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or
agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account
activity contained in this communication.
*******************************************************************************

Maybe just describe it as Olie's Partner B & G. Same intelligence 
level and fumbling ways. What could be a better advertisement 
for these clowns anyway?

Joe


  Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
ments, use of the word "Stanley", and even the words
"Stanley Blood and Gore" and "Stanley B&G" have them
pissed.

I, too, would be willing to throw some money at a legal defense fund for
Patrick (not $250, perhaps, but something).

Hey, Patrick, how about I post the B&G on MY web site, too. Anyone else
wanna post the evil document? How many cease and desist letters do you think
they can generate?

'Course, I use the name "Stanley" in my promotional material. Am I next?

Ron
where the hell's Zorro when you need him?

Ron Hock  ron@h...
http://www.hocktools.com
Hock Handmade Knives  16650 Mitchell Creek Drive  Fort Bragg, CA  95437
(707) 964-2782  fax (707) 964-7816

I have a solution! Just do what the founders of a lot of towns here
in Texas did when they wished to use was already taken. Spell it
backwards.

Anybody want to see 'Yelnats Blood and Gore?'

Dan Attaway
attaway@p...
PLATINUM technology, inc.

At [Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:25:06 -0800]
Some one wrote:

> where the hell's Zorro when you need him?

>From what I've heard Zorro usually stays at home, in bed on April 1
because he is very gullible and is often fooled to the point of near
terminal embarassment. 

Tom Moye
Seattle

Mike Tillson wrote:
> 
> Perhaps we could threaten to boycott all of that new crap, I mean
> "newly designed material" that they are selling currently.  It may not
> stop them, but it may befudle them for a while.
> 
> Mike

I thought we were already doing that by default in our endeavor
to colle... uh, use old tools ......

Chris - who wonders if Walter, Roberts, Smith, et al will all be
	included in this assinine exercise being instigated by
	greedy lawyers (redundancy?) who have discovered a cash
	cow with deep pockets. Also, I wonder what the Stanley
	stockholders would think about their assets being
	squandered to line their lawyer's pockets .......

> 
> I don't have a lot of jing, but I'm willing to kick into the Leach Legal
> Fund..... If he wants to go toe-to-toe w/ Stanley, I don't want lack of
> money to be the reason he lost the battle.
> 
> -
> L8r,
> John
> 

I'd like to echo John's offer.  I will kick in to the Leach legal fund
if he wants to take on the bully Stanley.  It appears Stanley  spends 
more energy in unfounded and ridiculous legal harassment for the sake 
of "its name" than it does in making better tools.  If Stanley should 
sue anyone for abusing the name, it should be --> Stanley post WWII. 

Boris
boris@a...
> 

So, to a universal word change. Stanley=Leach. Let it be the
first official secret of the Honorific Order of Galoots
(secret word "schhhhhhhhhhk").

John

EVERYBODY hates lawyers until they need one.
> 
>   They tell me this is all deliberate infringement.
> Yeah, that's what it is, deliberate. I'm glad to know
> that them lawyers know what's going on in my head, even
> when I don't.
>

At 06:42 4/1/98 -0400, J. Gunterman wrote:
>At 7:38 PM -0800 3/31/98, Don Groves wrote:
>
>>Just in case, I'm going to make me a hard copy of Stanley(R)
>>B&G right now!
>
>ummm....
>You Can't do that.... (unless Pat gives us permission)
>It's _Copywrited_ (Douuuuuuu ;-)

I should have put a smiley after that statement, I don't have that
many reams of printer paper on hand anyway ;-) 

>I don't have a lot of jing, but I'm willing to kick into the Leach Legal
>Fund..... If he wants to go toe-to-toe w/ Stanley, I don't want lack of
>money to be the reason he lost the battle.

Me too, but after reading some of the responses on the list and the
emails to Stanley(R), I'm thinking that Stanley(R) will back down...

Tool A Galoot,

Don Groves
Oregon City, Oregon USA
-------------------------------
Galoots Are Lovers Of Old Tools
-------------------------------

Patrick,

Count me in for support on the Legal Fund. It doesn't make
sense to me why Stanley would take such an action, but I'd
like to be added to those in your corner.

Thanks,
Jack

> Seems they're peeved over Stanley Blood & Gore, and
>have demanded that I pull the plug on any advertise-
>ments, use of the word "Stanley",

Does that mean that from now on we should only refer to st*nl*y with a
small "s"?

Nat 

Wow, I get too busy to read email and look what happens....
As one of the lawyers on the list, I have to say this is ridiculous.  I
can't even imagine what their legal theory is.  Certainly it's not a
copyright issue, since the fair comment doctrine would protect and
reprint of Stanley material per se.  Trademark?  Requires risk of
confusion, last time I looked.  Lots of people have written about lots
of companies.  Last I heard, there was still a First Amendment in this
country.  Defamation?  Bullshit.  Truth is a defense, even if something
in there could be interpreted as defamatory.  Product disparagement?
Tough one, at best.  I think they're just assholes.  So Patrick, contact
me if you want to talk about it.  Phone: (914) 777-3670; fax (914)
698-5479.  And I certainly don't intend to add my name to the list of
Lawyers Who Deserve To Die by asking you for any money.  As my little
lawyer doll says when you push it's stomach, "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!"
Yours,
Mark Lane

On  2 Apr 98 at 10:35, J. Mark Lane wrote:
> Wow, I get too busy to read email and look what happens....
> As one of the lawyers on the list, I have to say this is ridiculous.

Mark & Patrick,

If the gripe that a tool company is posting the name Stanley on its 
web site is legit, I will soon have a machine on the web with 24hour 
availability that I will donate space and a shell account to Patrick 
so he can maintain the S B&G in its original form.

I'm certain there will be no shortage of people willing to sign 
affadavids as to the the scholarly nature of the B&G, It certainly 
taught me a thing or two, or fifty. 

I for one would like to see a public and sincere apology to Patrick 
from Big Yellow.

Let me know how to help.

-Ted

Hootin Holler Joinery       301.748.0400
Fine Furniture and Architectural Woodwork.
http://hootinholler.com