Parser is a new one for me.  I've always called them passer drills.  Ya
learn something every day.

Nice work.  The results show the quality.

Casey from Chicago

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Peter McBride wrote:

> GG's
> Many years ago I saw a link to the two legged parser page...
> www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow

Peter McBride wrote:
> GG's
> Many years ago I saw a link to the two legged parser page...
> www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html
>
> And a few years later saw Roy's video of him using one, and decided to try
> and get one to work. (can't find the link to that one)
>
> I made one today.
> Used an industrial hacksaw blade for the legs, and spring steel for the
> template.
> I haven't re-hardened them yet because I want to refine the cutting edges
> some, and lessen the stiffness of the legs a little.
> See it here.....
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser2.jpg
>
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser3.jpg
>
> The shield is hand cut in silver, and the wood is Indian Rosewood.
> This thing works so well.
>
> Regards,
> Peter
> In Melbourne, Australia.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
>
>   
------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Parser is a new one for me.  I've always called them passer drills.  Ya
> learn something every day.
> 
> Nice work.  The results show the quality.
> 
> Casey from Chicago

----------------------------------------------
That's what Roy Called them in his TV show...Passer drills.
Perhaps that name will help in a search for the show.

If I can figure out how to make the templates, I might make on of these too.
I have a need for this technology.

HTH
JimS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim,
I think the template would be made in steel ( mild would probably  
work ):
1 scribe your design.
2 drill most of it out
3 file to the line what's left.
That's the way it looks at least. I have yet to make a template.

I think I still have the link from the original post to the list  
subject line: "How to inlay odd shapes"

Cheers,
Wes,
Also in Chicago

> If I can figure out how to make the templates, I might make on of  
> these too.
> I have a need for this technology.
>
> HTH
> JimS
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:11:53 +1100 "Peter McBride"  wrote:
> Nuno Souto asks...
Quite remarkable. To watch him recreate the funny shaped brass piece in
the handle of a wooden try square is astounding. This is what I find
fascinating about old tools - they are frequently more than they have to
be and some then become art.

Ed Minch

 I'm having difficulty visualizing how this thing works.
> Anyone has a link to a video of it in operation? Thanks for the great
> post, Peter!
> -----------------------
> Nuno, I found the link to Roy's video.
> www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html go down to>
> "A Very Boring Program" and it is about at the halfway mark...
>> Regards,
> Peter In Melbourne, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
http://www.nni.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter wrote: Used an industrial hacksaw blade for the legs, and spring
steel for the template.

I have been thinking about making one of these since the last discussion
a few months ago. Seems to me that an old bent handsaw, preferably a
thicker one, would be good stock for both the legs and the template.

Any reason this wouldn't work?

Brian Welch Holden, MA----------------------------------------------------------
----
----------

I found this on the Full Chisel Blog:

Incidentally, ever see how  they made those fancy little brass escutcheon 
plates fit into the wood stock?  Using a passepartout or parser drill, that's 
how.
Check out ST-Roy epeisode  2807 to find out, quite amazing. Utter 
simplicity in action 
 
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html

John  M. Johnston
There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave  Barry

In a message dated 1/23/2010 4:22:29 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
wizofoz@i... writes:
I'm having difficulty visualizing how this thing  works.
Anyone has a link to a video of it in operation?
Thanks for the  great post, Peter!
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oooh, I found a YouTube video of this in  use:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlF6OTEDaXQ

Cheers,
J~

John M. Johnston
There is a fine line between hobby and mental  illness. Dave Barry

In a message dated 1/23/2010 5:12:09 A.M. Central  Standard Time, 
peter@p... writes:
Nuno Souto asks...
I'm  having difficulty visualizing how this thing works.
Anyone has a link to a  video of it in operation?
Thanks for the great post,  Peter!
-----------------------/oldtools
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter, That would be a wonderful addition to the Galoot Central Download section
!  Archive the pictures and a short write up in a 
PDF file for future reference!  Would I be asking to much for a quick/dirty draw
ing of the end/profile view of the cutters?

Beautiful work as always Peter, I love going to your site and aspiring to do the
 quality work that you achieve.

Jay Moyer 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wes;
Thanks.  I'd be interested in the link.
I'm enhancing Palm Crosses I'm making for my church.
I donate them for people undergoing surgery.
JimS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: WesG [mailto:wesg@g...]
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:18 AM
> To: Jim Shaw
> Cc: Casey; ; oldtools@r...
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] two legged parser
> 
> Jim,
> I think the template would be made in steel ( mild would probably
> work ):
> 1 scribe your design.
> 2 drill most of it out
> 3 file to the line what's left.
> That's the way it looks at least. I have yet to make a template.
> 
> I think I still have the link from the original post to the list
> subject line: "How to inlay odd shapes"
> 
> Cheers,
> Wes,
> Also in Chicago
> 
> > If I can figure out how to make the templates, I might make on of
> > these too.
> > I have a need for this technology.
> >
> > HTH
> > JimS
> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

GG's
Many years ago I saw a link to the two legged parser page...
www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html

And a few years later saw Roy's video of him using one, and decided to try
and get one to work. (can't find the link to that one)

I made one today.
Used an industrial hacksaw blade for the legs, and spring steel for the
template.
I haven't re-hardened them yet because I want to refine the cutting edges
some, and lessen the stiffness of the legs a little.
See it here.....
www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser2.jpg

www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser3.jpg

The shield is hand cut in silver, and the wood is Indian Rosewood.
This thing works so well.

Regards,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm dumbstruck... how nifty is that!

That's got to be a candidate for the cleverest tool I've seen, a complex
almost intractable problem with an incredibly simple solution.... it
would work with just about any shape.... self expanding infinitely
variable router bits anyone ...

Regards Ray

> > GG's Many years ago I saw a link to the two legged parser page... www.watchm
an.dsl.pipex.com/two-
> legged%20parser/parser.html
>
> And a few years later saw Roy's video of him using one, and decided to
> try and get one to work. (can't find the link to that one)
>
> I made one today. Used an industrial hacksaw blade for the legs, and
> spring steel for the template. I haven't re-hardened them yet because
> I want to refine the cutting edges some, and lessen the stiffness of
> the legs a little. See it here.....
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser2.jpg
>
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser3.jpg
>
> The shield is hand cut in silver, and the wood is Indian Rosewood.
> This thing works so well.
>
> Regards, Peter In Melbourne, Australia.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recalling some pictures I saw a couple years ago, someone was using the
two-legged piece of the parser/passer drill by chucking it into a drill
press.  I think he was using it for some intricate inlay on a guitar.  It
appeared to work, but I didn't see any close-ups of the final product.
Anyone else tried using it without the bow?  I would imagine that some of
the more intricate patterns wouldn't work as well with rotation only in one
direction (maybe miss a small corner in one direction?).  Any comments from
your experience?

Casey from Chicago
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm having difficulty visualizing how this thing works.
Anyone has a link to a video of it in operation?
Thanks for the great post, Peter!

-- 
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in overcast Sydney, Australia
wizofoz@i...

Peter McBride wrote,on my timestamp of 23/01/2010 3:11 PM:
> GG's
> Many years ago I saw a link to the two legged parser page...
> www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html
> 
> And a few years later saw Roy's video of him using one, and decided to try
> and get one to work. (can't find the link to that one)
> 
> I made one today.
> Used an industrial hacksaw blade for the legs, and spring steel for the
> template.
> I haven't re-hardened them yet because I want to refine the cutting edges
> some, and lessen the stiffness of the legs a little.
> See it here.....
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser2.jpg
> 
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/img/parser3.jpg
> 
> The shield is hand cut in silver, and the wood is Indian Rosewood.
> This thing works so well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nuno Souto asks...
I'm having difficulty visualizing how this thing works.
Anyone has a link to a video of it in operation?
Thanks for the great post, Peter!
-----------------------
Nuno,
I found the link to Roy's video.
www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html
go down to 
"A Very Boring Program"
and it is about at the halfway mark...

Regards,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pattern would only need to be hardened if you're planning on using  
it over and over again. For one or two uses, you won't ruin it.

On Jan 23, 2010, at 10:25 PM, Tom Dugan  wrote:

>
> I noticed in the Woodwright's Shop episode you referenced that Roy  
> mentions the pattern is tempered, so I assume it's hardened to some  
> degree. As are the tips of the drill - they're straw colored.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is indeed amazing!
Thanks Peter!
-- 
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in overcast Sydney, Australia
wizofoz@i...

Peter McBride wrote,on my timestamp of 23/01/2010 10:11 PM:

> Nuno,
> I found the link to Roy's video.
> www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html
> go down to 
> "A Very Boring Program"
> and it is about at the halfway mark...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed in the Woodwright's Shop episode you referenced that Roy
mentions the pattern is tempered=2C so I assume it's hardened to some
degree. As are the tips of the drill - they're straw colored.

I've had occasion to handle Roy's version three times in the past
year=2C but I must confess that I never inspected it with an eye towards
recreating it=2C so I can't pass on anything terribly useful. -T

> From: peter@p... To: wesg@g...=3B jeshaw2@o... Subject: RE: [OldTools]
> two legged parser Date: Sun=2C 24 Jan 2010 08:28:43 +1100
> CC: oldtools@r...
>> Wes writes...
> I think the template would be made in steel ( mild would probably work
> ): 1 scribe your design. 2 drill most of it out 3 file to the line
> what's left. That's the way it looks at least. I have yet to make a
> template.
> -----------------------------
> That's how I made mine=2C but I used spring steel that I heated red
> and let cool slowly.
>> Regards=2C
> Peter In Melbourne=2C Australia.
>
                                         ___________________________-
                                         ___________________________-
                                         ___________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.
com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/-----------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Here is the link I mentioned saving from way back when.
Apologies in advance if this was already used in the thread and I  
didn't see it.
http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html
Also apologies in advance if this is some Galoots who is trying to  
keep it a secret.
I'm very very sorry.

Cheers,
Wes

In Chicago and at:
http://galootapalooza.org/

On Jan 23, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Jim Shaw wrote:

> Wes;
> Thanks.  I'd be interested in the link.
> I'm enhancing Palm Crosses I'm making for my church.
> I donate them for people undergoing surgery.
> JimS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wes writes...
I think the template would be made in steel ( mild would probably
work ):
1 scribe your design.
2 drill most of it out
3 file to the line what's left.
That's the way it looks at least. I have yet to make a template.
-----------------------------
That's how I made mine, but I used spring steel that I heated red and
let cool slowly.

Regards,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian asks...
Seems to me that an old bent handsaw, preferably a thicker one, would
be good stock for both the legs and the template.
-------------------
Simple answer..Yes!
That was my plan, however it is much easier making the template (drill
and file to the line) on thinner stuff than the hack saw blade I had,
and I had a piece of spring steel I bought from the local hardware
store, sold as floor scraper. I will do a write up with more details
on softening, hardening and thicknesses...and close up pictures of the
template and the cutter over the next few days.

Regards,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wes, the page parser page is from Ian Wright, Sheffield, UK.  His  website 
is _http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/_ (http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/) 
  and a thoroughly interesting Galoot he appears to be.  The closing lines 
of  his article about the two-legged parser ends with his invitation to 
learn if  others try to make one of these tools; he doesn't appear to be keeping
 
it a  secret.  I suspect that Ian Wright would be interested in 
communicating  with Peter or others who are interested in making and using one o
f these 
 marvelous tools.
 
Aren't you glad Al Gore invented the internet?!
 
Cheers,
John

John M. Johnston
There is a fine line between hobby and  mental illness. Dave Barry

In a message dated 1/24/2010 12:19:04 A.M.  Central Standard Time, 
wesg@g... writes:
Here is the link I  mentioned saving from way back when.
Apologies in advance if this was already  used in the thread and I  
didn't see  it.
http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/two-legged%20parser/parser.html
Also  apologies in advance if this is some Galoots who is trying to  
keep it  a secret.
I'm very very sorry.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a cool project Peter!!
  I think everyone wanted to make one. You beat us all to it!!

  Couple questions I have always had.
The skutchins?
Having a perfect inlay recess means you need a matching inlay.
I assume you filed out yours first and used it to mark the template.
But now that you made the template, what will be the easiest way to 
reproduce skutchins?

  Also template placement and holddown?
Suppose you have a dinky 2 blade sleeveboard, (a small pattern of 
pocketknife)  in pearl,
  and you want to line up the shield with the lines of the knife?
I guess you can mark the scale with a felt tip and try to line up the 
  template that way.
  But how do you get it to hold still whilst you bow the tune???

Oh one last dumb question.
  Does the thimble need to be so close to your body? It looks pretty 
uncomfortable bowing.
   I keep wondering, if you used a longer shaft,..................

  well, all I have seen, have very short shafts with the thimble right 
up against you.  Does it need to be there for another reason I am not 
seeing?

  yours
and way to go!!!

Scott
-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks!  And it links to an interesting series of videos on Sheffield Steel 
works and all sorts of things to do with knifes, as well.
Most interesting.

-- 
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in rainy Sydney, Australia
wizofoz@i...

sgt42rhr@a... wrote,on my timestamp of 24/01/2010 1:24 AM:
> Oooh, I found a YouTube video of this in  use:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlF6OTEDaXQ
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nuno & John,
I just had a look at the youtube video.
I came to a couple of the same conclusions...like using the left hand
to guide the tool in the template, my pins are too thin and leaving
the center uncut also( although a small chisel makes short work of
it). Perhaps the smaller ones are better suited to longer narrower
inlays ( ribbon type?)
I'm thinking the two blades have to, when compressed, be able to clear
the shortest dimension across the template easily, but the longer they
are the more of the center is removed.
Looks like a set of these is needed!!

Regards,
Peter,
In Melbourne, Australia.
-----------------------

sgt42rhr@a... wrote,on my timestamp of 24/01/2010 1:24 AM:
> Oooh, I found a YouTube video of this in  use:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlF6OTEDaXQ
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

::-----Original Message-----
::From: oldtools-bounces@r... 
::[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of 
::paul womack
::Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:47 AM
::To: ruby@m...
::Cc: oldtools@r...
::Subject: Re: [OldTools] two legged parser

::I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated"
::chisel, saw or (English) plane.

Never have seen a decorated saw??

Just look at (1) the nib (yes!!) and (2) the highly ornate handles on some
of the older, higher-end saws.  Fancy curves, points, lamb's tongue, wheat
carving, big brass medallions, etc.  

Look at these saw handles:
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17430481/271048395.jpg

And compare them to this one:
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/images/tools/misc/misc608/misc608.view01.jpg

Both are functional saw handles, but the latter is purely functional.  The
former are highly decorated beyond mere function. 

Did anyone else see the wooden try squares Chris Schwarz made, in the most
recent Pop. Woodworking?  Very nicely decorated ends.  I gotta make me one
o' those. 

- Bill T.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

paul womack thought correctly when he posted:
> It's also in Salaman, I think.
Salaman has it as
Passer (Parsa; Parcey; Parcer) - See Drill, Passer; [ or Truss Hoop 
under Cooper (3) Hooping Tools.]

No listing under Parser

Drill, Passer (Parcey, Parsa, Parcer; Breast-plate-and Parsee) Fig 280
An early name for a Gimlet or Bow Drill, but now more often applied to a 
remarkable and special bit which is normally driven by a fiddle bow and 
kept in contact with the work by means of a breast-plate. (See Drill, Bow)
The Passer bit is a double (bifurcated) drill made of two thin pieces of 
steel rod, welded together at the head and sharpened at the other to 
form flat cutters.  The tool is an early form of hand-operated Router, 
doing similar work to that of the modern Machine Router.
The process is as follows.  A steel template is pierced with the shape 
of the hole or recess required and is held against the material to be 
worked.  The bifurcated drill is made to rotate within the shaped hole 
in the template.  As it does this, the springy legs of the Passer follow 
the inside outline of the template, in which they are confined, and by 
their eccentric movement cut, or rather rout out, the required shape.  
The depth of the hole is regulated by the shoulders, which are cut net 
the tip of the drill legs, bearing in the inside edge of the template.
One of its chief uses it to pierce or recess ornamental shapes (often 
squares, shield or oval) in the handles of pen and pocket knives in the 
Sheffield cutlery trade; hence the legend that the Sheffield Cutler can 
drill a square hole.  It is also used for recessing high-quality 
hardwood instrument cases and boxes to take brass mounts, and for 
routing the recesses to take the brass washers and 'diamonds' in 
carpenter's rosewood Squares.

[the Truss Hoop Passer is a different beast, no relation other than the 
name]

pg 188 of my paperback revised version.

Interestingly, there is a drawknife shaped like the one discussed last 
week, figure 269 on page 182, where the handles are way outboard, and 
the curve (1 3/4-2" per text) is centered.  Called a Drawing Knife, 
Handle Maker's

-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, CA, almost to the bottom of the 1st tool chest.
Pharmaceutical and Packaging Engineering
eppler.kirk@g...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ignored this thread fo so long.
Parser I thought to myself HA I know all about parsing Konea Greek 
verbs  hell, I did it for four years and I don't never want to do it again.
Hate greek

Well Finally I rattled my mouser down to the  first post and  let me 
tell you I was staggerblasted.

That's way cool~!!
Thanks for posting it and for the video link too.
I gotta make me one o' these.
I wonder when Fester-Tool will have some $2,000  five pound contraption 
that uses proprietary disposables  to do it?

.

Peter McBride wrote:
> Nuno Souto asks...
> I'm having difficulty visualizing how this thing works.
> Anyone has a link to a video of it in operation?
> Thanks for the great post, Peter!
> -----------------------
> Nuno,
> I found the link to Roy's video.
> www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/28season_video.html
> go down to 
> "A Very Boring Program"
> and it is about at the halfway mark...
>
> Regards,
> Peter
> In Melbourne, Australia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
>
>   

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter McBride wrote:
> Scott asks .....a few questions that get long wordy answers...
> ...
> -------------------------------------
> Scott....the order of work is the key.
> Do the cutting of the recess first, with it clamped upright in a vice.
> When I make something that will have curves and fancy shapes on it,
> but will also have some applied decoration that will need good
> alignment, I will do the applied decoration first, then draw my
> guidelines from that part to my outline....much easier. My first rule
> of making ANYTHING is work from what I know to what I don't. Your
> question is how would I locate the shield on the shell. Well I would
> look to the whole job and see that that will be a difficulty, and I
> have the shield in my hand, and I have a blank knife shell, so put it
> in the location I KNOW will give me waste all around. It might be only
> a few mm all around the knife sides but I will have the front of the
> shell and the back of the shell co-planar, and if I lay it out right
> and scribe or draw a line through it I will have a LONG axis through
> the shield along a line of axis on the shell to match with the knifes
> axis...much easier to get right.
> So often I see the proud display of semi-finished work that will have
> the best efforts over cut with another one two or sometime even more
> processes later. It is a fault that takes away any reference points,
> lines or planes that are your guides later. I use those all the time
> to get things right.
> Best described like finishing a lever cap knob completely, and then
> doing the inlay in it. Machine making might make all this seem a
> little unimportant, but hand making stuff is all about not snookering
> yourself later. I'm always allowing a little in the seams to make it
> right later.
> Hope that makes some sense...???
> ---------------------------------------
>   
What's implicit in this is that first, you decide what's important! Then 
plan around that. In this case, having the decoration off-center would 
seriously detract from the appearance of the whole. So you adopt a 
method tohelp  ensure it ends up where you want it.

>> Oh one last dumb question.
>> Does the thimble need to be so close to your body? It looks pretty
>> uncomfortable bowing.
>> I keep wondering, if you used a longer shaft,..................
>> well, all I have seen, have very short shafts with the thimble right
>> up against you.  Does it need to be there for another reason I am not
>> seeing?
>>     
> -------------------------------------
> The pulling back and forth on the bow is pretty vigorous, and if for
> instance it was half way between the chest and the cutters the thing
> would be pulled from side to side. If you half that distance - 1/4 the
> sideways force at the cutter, half it again and so on until it is
> negligible when it is right up hard on the chest.
> I think I got that right from my studies in engineering 35 years
> ago....but if you had it in your hands for 1/2 a second you would've
> felt it have almost no sideways force due to the effective long lever,
> even though you were pushing left and right like crazy. All you get is
> rotation.
> --------------------------------------
Ergonomically, I think it's much better to keep your elbow in close to 
your side, especially for repetitive motions like this. In the long run, 
it's less likely to be painful!
Don
------------------------------------------------------------------------

ruby@m... wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:11:53 +1100
>  "Peter McBride"  wrote:
>> Nuno Souto asks...
> Quite remarkable.  To watch him recreate the funny shaped
> brass piece in the handle of a wooden try square is
> astounding.  This is what I find fascinating about old
> tools -  they are frequently more than they have to be and
> some then become art.

It's quite odd that some classes of tools
are more-or-less-traditionally ornate, and
some are not.

I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated"
chisel, saw or (English) plane.

But try squares, "ultimatum" braces
pattern-maker's
trammels, and plumb bobs are quite
often high decorated.

   BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay moyer wrote:
> Peter, That would be a wonderful addition to the Galoot Central Download 
> section!  Archive the pictures and a short write up in a PDF file for 
> future reference!  Would I be asking to much for a quick/dirty drawing 
> of the end/profile view of the cutters?

I'll check my books; either Ashley Iles, or Stan Shaw
shows this tool.

It's also in Salaman, I think.

   BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

::-----Original Message-----
::From: oldtools-bounces@r... 
::[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of 
::paul womack
::Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:47 AM
::To: ruby@m...
::Cc: oldtools@r...
::Subject: Re: [OldTools] two legged parser
::

::I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated"
::chisel, saw or (English) plane.

Oddly enough, while searching for something completely other, I came across
this picture of a "German buttonhole chisel" and "French buttonhole chisel."

http://www.davidstanley.com/images/sale%2053/111-112.jpg

These two are pretty well decorated!

- Bill T.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of decorative planes:

Beautiful, but looks like a pretty severe gap on the bedding:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Incredible-Antique-Rabbet-Rebate-Plane_W0QQitemZ160398167689
QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255879ce89

Casey from Chicago

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 4:47 AM, paul womack wrote:

>
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated"
> chisel, saw or (English) plane.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, I know this is off topic, but when I keep reading this
title "two legged parser," all I can picture is a fanciful Turing
machine mounted atop two legs.

Mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From  BugBear
It's quite odd that some classes of tools
are more-or-less-traditionally ornate, and
some are not.
I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated"
chisel, saw or (English) plane.

But try squares, "ultimatum" braces
pattern-maker's
trammels, and plumb bobs are quite
often high decorated.
------------------------------
Paul,

and don't forget those most fantastically decorated tools, the ebony /
rosewood and brass levels.
Some of the Scottish plane makers, like Galloway for instance had a
decorative touch. But it mostly didn't happen further south. Any
thoughts from a local perspective??
Peter,
In Melb.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scott asks .....a few questions that get long wordy answers...
-----------------------------
>Couple questions I have always had.
>The skutchins?
>Having a perfect inlay recess means you need a matching inlay.
>I assume you filed out yours first and used it to mark the template.
>But now that you made the template, what will be the easiest way to
>reproduce skutchins?
----------------------------------
I made the template first, then traced with a sharp scribe inside and
cut around and filed just outside my line.
They were / are usually pressed, but I have a cheat in mind. Years ago
I saw a tool that was simply a sheet of saw steel with two 1/8 inch
holes drilled about 1/2 inch apart, and the shield shape ( or any
other shape) sawn through with a jeweller's saw at about a 15 deg
angle and spaced about 2 inches from the holes. Your silver (up to
about 1mm thick) is tucked under the shape and it is squeezed in the
jaws of a vice, or press....instant mass produced escutcheons...!!
----------------------------------
>Also template placement and holddown?
>Suppose you have a dinky 2 blade sleeveboard, (a small pattern of
>pocketknife)  in pearl,
>and you want to line up the shield with the lines of the knife?
>I guess you can mark the scale with a felt tip and try to line up the
> template that way.
> But how do you get it to hold still whilst you bow the tune???
-------------------------------------
Scott....the order of work is the key.
Do the cutting of the recess first, with it clamped upright in a vice.
When I make something that will have curves and fancy shapes on it,
but will also have some applied decoration that will need good
alignment, I will do the applied decoration first, then draw my
guidelines from that part to my outline....much easier. My first rule
of making ANYTHING is work from what I know to what I don't. Your
question is how would I locate the shield on the shell. Well I would
look to the whole job and see that that will be a difficulty, and I
have the shield in my hand, and I have a blank knife shell, so put it
in the location I KNOW will give me waste all around. It might be only
a few mm all around the knife sides but I will have the front of the
shell and the back of the shell co-planar, and if I lay it out right
and scribe or draw a line through it I will have a LONG axis through
the shield along a line of axis on the shell to match with the knifes
axis...much easier to get right.
So often I see the proud display of semi-finished work that will have
the best efforts over cut with another one two or sometime even more
processes later. It is a fault that takes away any reference points,
lines or planes that are your guides later. I use those all the time
to get things right.
Best described like finishing a lever cap knob completely, and then
doing the inlay in it. Machine making might make all this seem a
little unimportant, but hand making stuff is all about not snookering
yourself later. I'm always allowing a little in the seams to make it
right later.
Hope that makes some sense...???
---------------------------------------
>Oh one last dumb question.
>Does the thimble need to be so close to your body? It looks pretty
>uncomfortable bowing.
>I keep wondering, if you used a longer shaft,..................
> well, all I have seen, have very short shafts with the thimble right
>up against you.  Does it need to be there for another reason I am not
>seeing?
-------------------------------------
The pulling back and forth on the bow is pretty vigorous, and if for
instance it was half way between the chest and the cutters the thing
would be pulled from side to side. If you half that distance - 1/4 the
sideways force at the cutter, half it again and so on until it is
negligible when it is right up hard on the chest.
I think I got that right from my studies in engineering 35 years
ago....but if you had it in your hands for 1/2 a second you would've
felt it have almost no sideways force due to the effective long lever,
even though you were pushing left and right like crazy. All you get is
rotation.
--------------------------------------
>yours
>and way to go!!!
>Scott
----------------------------------

Thanks Scott,
But I feel like an idiot.....I have an awful infection in the end
joint of my middle finger...I stabbed myself with a needle file doing
the next slightly smaller shield shape.

And I don't want to re-cut the teeth on the tool I already have
because it will do small work really well, so I want to make another.
Tomorrow...woops...today....it is a Holiday....Australia Day, so I
might get a chance to take some pictures and do a bit more of a write
up.

Regards,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia.....happy Australia Day !!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

  " Does the thimble need to be so close to your body? It looks pretty
uncomfortable bowing.
    I keep wondering, if you used a longer shaft,..................

   well, all I have seen, have very short shafts with the thimble right
up against you.  Does it need to be there for another reason I am not
seeing?"

I imagine added leverage as being the problem in having the thimble 
further away from your body, placing more stress on the business end of 
the tool.

What might work, is to have a longer shaft between bearing and thimble, 
and fitting a hand sized sleeve over the shaft allowing you to hold the 
parser with one hand while bowing with the other. Might provide a little 
more control too.

PeterH in Perth
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

And the blade is in upside down!

Pete

Peter Michael Maddex Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know BLS Workplace
Services Nottingham Trent University -----Original Message----- From:
oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Casey
Sent: 26 January 2010 00:43 To: paul womack
Cc: oldtools@r... Subject: Re: [OldTools] two legged parser

Speaking of decorative planes:

Beautiful, but looks like a pretty severe gap on the bedding: http://cgi.ebay.co
m/Incredible-Antique-Rabbet-Rebate-
Plane_W0QQitemZ1603
98167689QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255879ce89

Casey from Chicago

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 4:47 AM, paul womack wrote:

>
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated" chisel, saw or
> (English) plane.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maddex, Peter wrote:
> And the blade is in upside down!

yes, I bought a rebate plane once and later discovered the blade was in 
upside down. The darn thing just won't cut with the blade like that. 
Since then I avoid planes where the blade is in upside down.

regards, Peter

Peter Robinson
in Brisbane, Australia
still slowly working on my spokeshave index
http://peterrobinson.galootcentral.com/spokeshaves/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously a poor design.
JimS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
> bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Peter Robinson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:47 PM
> To: Maddex, Peter
> Cc: oldtools@r...
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] two legged parser
> 
> Maddex, Peter wrote:
> > And the blade is in upside down!
> 
> yes, I bought a rebate plane once and later discovered the blade was in
> upside down. The darn thing just won't cut with the blade like that.
> Since then I avoid planes where the blade is in upside down.
> 
> 
> 
> regards, Peter
> 
> Peter Robinson
> in Brisbane, Australia
> still slowly working on my spokeshave index
> http://peterrobinson.galootcentral.com/spokeshaves/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> 
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 These are sewing tools, though, so its not surprising that they're all foofaraw
 and girly. It's not like they were  **real**  chisels.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley

Bugbear wrote:
"I don't think I've ever seen a "decorated" chisel, saw or (English) plane."

and Bill t. replied

"Oddly enough, while searching for something completely other, I came across thi
s picture of a "German buttonhole chisel" and "French buttonhole chisel."

http://www.davidstanley.com/images/sale%2053/111-112.jpg

These two are pretty well decorated!"

      
------------------------------------------------------------------------

paul womack wrote:
> Jay moyer wrote:
>> Peter, That would be a wonderful addition to the Galoot Central 
>> Download section!  Archive the pictures and a short write up in a PDF 
>> file for future reference!  Would I be asking to much for a 
>> quick/dirty drawing of the end/profile view of the cutters?
> 
> I'll check my books; either Ashley Iles, or Stan Shaw
> shows this tool.

Checking has been done. It's written up in Stan Shaw's book.

Stan Shaw, Master Cutler: The Story of a Sheffield Craftsman

(tiny review; the detail is interesting, but the author
appears to think Shaw is some kind of God - the constant
"Stan uses great skill...", "Stan is the last man..." gets very
wearing after a bit)

Anyway, here are the pictures, first of the tool
in use, and then of a close up of the tool
(apologies for the quality - I did my best)

http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/parser_use.jpg
http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10152/parser_detail.jpg

Here's the text:

Drilling cavities or holes into pearl or ivory, so that a shield can
be inserted or the knife riveted together, is such a delicate operation
that a special procedure is needed. Stan reached for a kind of
leather breastplate faced with metal, and straps it, like a strange
piece of medieval armour, around his midriff. He then clamps the
pocket-knife scale - or mother of pearl, ivory, stag or whatever - into
his vice along with a template, before picking up a leather bow and
a spiked cutting-tool with a wooden bobbin along its length. For a
moment he stands there, carefully positioning the spikes within the
template (which can be varied to give different shield shapes) and
placing the other pointed end in the small reinforced recess in the
breastplate. With the leather bow wrapped around the bobbin, he
suddenly moves it rapidly back and forth several times with his
hand, like a child's top. The results is that the double cutting prongs
withing the template become a blur as they rapidly ruck out the shield
material, following the countours of the template to give the desired
shape.

Stan in demonstrating [in the picture], one of the oldest of the cutlers'
tool - the parser. It is probably the technique he is asked most
often to demonstrate, as an example of his art; it is suitably ancient
(in fact, the Egyptians are known to have used the parser) and seems
a rather eccentric technique, as should perhaps befit a craft nurtured
within the closed world of the little mester. But looks can be
deceiving: the parser may seem bizarre, but the technique demands
the greatest skill and even today no better method has been found
for putting the inlay hole into materials such as pearl. The parser
is also a wonderfully efficient drill for making holes in the knifes
scales. Stan is almost the last person in the world who uses this
tool; watching him one feels privileged to be witnessing a living
piece of history.

    BugBear (late, but hopefully helpful)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Robinson wrote:
> Maddex, Peter wrote:
>> And the blade is in upside down!
> 
> yes, I bought a rebate plane once and later discovered the blade was in 
> upside down. The darn thing just won't cut with the blade like that. 
> Since then I avoid planes where the blade is in upside down.

sorry, replying to my own post.

I've had a few off-list notes.

yes, I could just turn over the blade
no, I don't really avoid planes with the blade upside down
yes, I meant it to be a joke.

hehe!!

regards, Peter

Peter Robinson
in Brisbane, Australia
still slowly working on my spokeshave index
http://peterrobinson.galootcentral.com/spokeshaves/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, now I've got the search bit between my teeth;

Steven Cocker, on www.britishblades.com/forums, says "I inlayed a Shield
using my parser and worked back the spring of the knife." in a post
dated 22-01-10, so someone is still using the tool.

Here's gold - a video of Stan Shaw using the darn thing:

http://www.mylearning.org/playback-video.asp?journeyid=117&resourceid On
www.bladeforums.com we have kc_custom, 12-17-2009,

...I make the shield and the parser plate...

So I guess he's using a parser

   BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Peter, The time you spent documenting the parser is greatly appreciate
d.  

Jay Moyer

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter McBride" 
To: "paul womack" ; "Jay moyer" 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: [OldTools] Re: two legged parser

>I made a page with some more details on the parser I have been playing
> with, and a demonstration of how to make a cutter to click out the
> shield shapes.
> www.petermcbride.com/parser/
> 
> Regards,
> Peter,
> In Melbourne, Australia
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I made a page with some more details on the parser I have been playing
with, and a demonstration of how to make a cutter to click out the
shield shapes.
www.petermcbride.com/parser/

Regards,
Peter,
In Melbourne, Australia

------------------------------------------------------------------------