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269178 Gmail <shadowd@g...> 2019‑09‑10 Repairing a Krenovian smoother
Dear Galoots:

Some years back I built a laminated Krenov style smoother from a block of
sycamore, with a cocobolo cross pin. Somewhere along the way I must have been a
little too aggressive setting the wedge, and one of the ends of the pin has
snapped.

I have had a look around online, and have yet to see any discussion of repairing
this kind of break.  I am loath to saw off one of the cheeks to completely
replace the pin.  What do you think of either a.) through drilling the pin and
gluing in a steel rod, or b.) putting a screw in through both sides, or c.)
something I have not thought of?

Regards,
   Marc
269179 Zachary Dillinger <zacharydillinger@g...> 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
I replaced one once and did your Option A, drilled through the existing pin
and inserted a metal rod. I used copper because that is what I had on hand.
That said, if I ever had to do it again, I think I would, as an experiment,
take a cue from the way a wristwatch strap is held on. I would try to make
a wooden pin about 1/16 shorter than the plane throat is wide. I would then
drill the pin ends to receive short metal rods of the same diameter as the
original pin end tenons. Drill the holes a little more than twice as deep
as necessary, insert a compression spring, then the metal rods, Then, using
finger pressure on the ends of the metal pins, I would push the pins into
the body of the cross pin, slide it into place, and move it around until
the metal pins seat into the holes in the cheek walls of the plane body.

Again, this is all theoretical but it would be an interesting exercise in
precision.
--
Zachary Dillinger
517-231-3374
269180 Gmail <shadowd@g...> 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
That is a very interesting solution!  I like that idea.  If for some reason it
doesn’t work out, I could still go with a rod through the middle.

Very cool, thank you.

—Marc
269181 Zachary Dillinger <zacharydillinger@g...> 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
In thinking a little more about this, you could probably drill all the way
through the pin and use longer metal rods and just one compression spring.
As you squeezed the rods into place with your fingers, the spring would be
sandwiched between the metal pins and should still work fine. Getting the
pin length exactly right might be a bit tricky but this would give you
nearly solid metal support across the whole width of the wooden pin.

Zachary Dillinger
517-231-3374
269182 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
Are the ends of the pin exposed on both cheeks?

If so, cut the pin off nearly flush with the interior of the throat.  Drive out
both stubs with a wooden drift.

Through-drill a replacement pin center and then shape it to properly grip the
blade. ( Easier to grip if drilled before shaping. ) Use a drill press to keep
the hole parallel with the axis (Galootish post drill or Yankee hand cranked
drill press. ) Note that this will be the same flatted shape per Krenov.

Gently drive a brass axle through the whole assembly.  Everything should be a
press-fit.

Bob’s yer uncle: you have Flatted pin to grip the wedge, pressed onto a
replaceable brass axle which will never break unless brutally abused.

John Ruth
Who admires Krenov’s flatted pin which gives a much better grip on the wedge
than a round pin ever could.
269183 Kirk Eppler 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 9:36 AM Gmail  wrote:

>
> Some years back I built a laminated Krenov style smoother from a block of
> sycamore, with a cocobolo cross pin. Somewhere along the way I must have
> been a little too aggressive setting the wedge, and one of the ends of the
> pin has snapped.


Having never done this before, this is purely a guess.

(My kit has a metal pin, so I would drill through and just replace cocobolo
entirely.)

But onto a solution which may work.  Instead of spring loading your pin,
you can cut a groove into one cheek, in the non load bearing direction.
This will allow you to install it from the blade side, and it will press
into the solid portion when stressed by the wedge.  You may need to make
the other side a groove, or just an oval to allow the pin to pivot on its
way in.

Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA

>
> --
Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors. Kirk
269184 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
Kirk et al

It strikes me these approaches may be overkill. I would first consider 
simply drilling the cocobolo out and replacing it with something more 
resistant to rupture - Verawood aka Argentine Lignum Vitae for instance. 
And practice less aggression on setting the wedge. ;-)

As well, I wonder whether it might be possible to redrill the sides and 
install a pin with a larger diameter. Even a small increase in size 
should give a considerable increase in strength.

FWIW
Don


On 2019-09-10 12:07 p.m., Kirk Eppler via OldTools wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 9:36 AM Gmail  wrote:
>
>> Some years back I built a laminated Krenov style smoother from a block of
>> sycamore, with a cocobolo cross pin. Somewhere along the way I must have
>> been a little too aggressive setting the wedge, and one of the ends of the
>> pin has snapped.
>
> Having never done this before, this is purely a guess.
>
> (My kit has a metal pin, so I would drill through and just replace cocobolo
> entirely.)
>
> But onto a solution which may work.  Instead of spring loading your pin,
> you can cut a groove into one cheek, in the non load bearing direction.
> This will allow you to install it from the blade side, and it will press
> into the solid portion when stressed by the wedge.  You may need to make
> the other side a groove, or just an oval to allow the pin to pivot on its
> way in.
>
> Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA
>
>
-- 
Enough protectionist cr@p... BUY CANADIAN. - I said that.

“Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on
petroleum.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

“Nature does not care for your opinion.” Robin Coope

“You never know who's swimming naked until the tide goes out.”—Warren Buffet

You are already naked. There is no reason to not follow your heart. - Steve Jobs
269185 Kirk Eppler 2019‑09‑10 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
‘‘Twas my thought, but some people like the clear sides without the pin
showing.  I am too afraid I can’t drill that accurately.

Kirk

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 1:09 PM Don Schwartz  wrote:

> Kirk et al
>
> It strikes me these approaches may be overkill. I would first consider
> simply drilling the cocobolo out and replacing it with something more
> resistant to rupture - Verawood aka Argentine Lignum Vitae for instance.
> And practice less aggression on setting the wedge. ;-)
>
> As well, I wonder whether it might be possible to redrill the sides and
> install a pin with a larger diameter. Even a small increase in size
> should give a considerable increase in strength.
>
> FWIW
> Don
>
>
> On 2019-09-10 12:07 p.m., Kirk Eppler via OldTools wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 9:36 AM Gmail  wrote:
> >
> >> Some years back I built a laminated Krenov style smoother from a block
> of
> >> sycamore, with a cocobolo cross pin. Somewhere along the way I must have
> >> been a little too aggressive setting the wedge, and one of the ends of
> the
> >> pin has snapped.
> >
> > Having never done this before, this is purely a guess.
> >
> > (My kit has a metal pin, so I would drill through and just replace
> cocobolo
> > entirely.)
> >
> > But onto a solution which may work.  Instead of spring loading your pin,
> > you can cut a groove into one cheek, in the non load bearing direction.
> > This will allow you to install it from the blade side, and it will press
> > into the solid portion when stressed by the wedge.  You may need to make
> > the other side a groove, or just an oval to allow the pin to pivot on its
> > way in.
> >
> > Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA
> >
> >
> --
> Enough protectionist cr@p... BUY CANADIAN. - I said that.
>
> “Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling
> drunk on petroleum.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
>
> “Nature does not care for your opinion.” Robin Coope
>
> “You never know who's swimming naked until the tide goes out.”—Warren
> Buffet
>
> You are already naked. There is no reason to not follow your heart. -
> Steve Jobs
>
> --
Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors. Kirk
269186 Chuck Taylor 2019‑09‑11 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
Marc and other Gentle Galoots,

If you simply reinforce the existing pin with a metal rod, then you won't need
to do anything to the wedge. If, however, you replace the pin, you may have to
replace or at least fettle the wedge as well.

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle
who loves his Krenovian smoother

============

 On Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 1:28:21 PM PDT, Don Schwartz  wrote: 

It strikes me these approaches may be overkill. I would first consider 
simply drilling the cocobolo out and replacing it with something more 
resistant to rupture - Verawood aka Argentine Lignum Vitae for instance. 
And practice less aggression on setting the wedge. ;-)

As well, I wonder whether it might be possible to redrill the sides and 
install a pin with a larger diameter. Even a small increase in size 
should give a considerable increase in strength.

FWIW
Don
269187 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑09‑11 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
Interesting point. Is it easier to make a good fit of a steel rods and 
possibly springs into a broken wooden pin or to install a new pin and 
maybe make or fettle a wedge?
I expect it might depend on your tools and skill-set. Are more tools in 
order?

To go back a bit, how can a well-fitting wedge break a well-sized and 
fitted pin on one side only, when both pieces are quite tightly 
constrained in a small space?

Just wondering...
Don


On 2019-09-10 9:39 p.m., Chuck Taylor wrote:
> Marc and other Gentle Galoots,
>
> If you simply reinforce the existing pin with a metal rod, then you won't need
to do anything to the wedge. If, however, you replace the pin, you may have to
replace or at least fettle the wedge as well.
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck Taylor
> north of Seattle
> who loves his Krenovian smoother
>
> ============
>
>   On Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 1:28:21 PM PDT, Don Schwartz 
wrote:
>
> It strikes me these approaches may be overkill. I would first consider
> simply drilling the cocobolo out and replacing it with something more
> resistant to rupture - Verawood aka Argentine Lignum Vitae for instance.
> And practice less aggression on setting the wedge. ;-)
>
> As well, I wonder whether it might be possible to redrill the sides and
> install a pin with a larger diameter. Even a small increase in size
> should give a considerable increase in strength.
>
> FWIW
> Don
>

-- 
Enough protectionist cr@p... BUY CANADIAN. - I said that.

“Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on
petroleum.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

“Nature does not care for your opinion.” Robin Coope

“You never know who's swimming naked until the tide goes out.”—Warren Buffet

You are already naked. There is no reason to not follow your heart. - Steve Jobs
269188 Derek Cohen <derekcohen@i...> 2019‑09‑12 Re: Repairing a Krenovian smoother
The simplest fix is to:

1. Remove the old wedge completely. 

2. Drill out the existing holes in the plane (through the sides).

3. Fit a steel rod.

4. Drill out a block of wood a little over the size of the wedge and turn it to
round. Insert the steel rod through the centre.

5. Now shape the block to the dimensions of the original wedge. Remember that
the rod will be offset.

6. Remove the rod, insert the wedge in the plane, thread the rod through the
body into the wedge and again the body.

7. Trim the rod to size. Bob's your aunty.


There is a built on my website. This includes a shaping of the wedge.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

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