Hi all.

In my wanderings on the net, I found oldtools.  It is excellent to have a
direct connection with others who feel as I do about tools and wood and
tools and tools.  I cannot thank each and everyone of you enough for all
of your knowledge, experience and polite attitudes.  I especially like the
opportunity to read what other think, who are older than me, (I'm 36).  I
feel it is my responsibility to learn as much as I can from people, who
will be gone someday, so there will be a record of what they knew and
stood for as craftsmen.  Enough gushing.

I have been reading the oldtools daily emails since May of 2001.  But I
have never written anything, so I will introduce myself...

My name is Michael Egbert.  I have been woodworking since March of 2001. 
My first tool was a LN 102 block plane.  My second tool, much more
influencial IMHO, was a book called 'Understanding Wood' by R. Bruce
Hoadley.  Then I read 'The Complete Guide to Sharpening' by Leonard Lee. 
And I kept on reading and buying hand tools.  I didn't do anything but
read books about woodworking and cut, plane and chisel wood for a year. 
My first project was a 9 in. by 9 in. by 12 in. doug fir tool box.  I
ripped the 2x4s by hand.  I'm into the hand tool thing.

Then I started building things for the shop, tables, shelves, boxes.  And
I began to have so many tools just laying around on tables because I
didn't have any tool storage.  So I looked for a big toolbox to base a
design on, and I realized that I didn't have the money for materials or
the skill necessary to even start.  That's when I decided to have all my
tools each have thier own tool box.  I built a chisel cabinet, and I love
it.  My next cabinet is going to be a plane cabinet.  I'm still working on
the design, so it will be a while before it's ready to start building.

Here is my question:  What are some of the ways that you all use to store
tools?  I think it's excellent when you see a well organized set of tools
and I would really like to hear if anyone has any good ideas.  I know it
will depend on shop size and condition and personal preferences, but I'd
still like to hear about them.

I wanted to tell you all something that I think you will appriciate.  I
live outside of Seattle in the country.   There are lots of farms and
large tracts of land that people use for country type things.  There is a
guy named Roger that owns a medieval village called Camlann just down the
road from my house.  Everything is done with methods and technology of
medieval times.  So, one day I wet.  When you walk in the gate, with
everybody dressed and talking like a Monty Python movie, there is this 20
ft. by 40 ft. timber-framed cottage being build in medieval ways.

I start talking to the guy that was building it and he turns out to be a
cabinet maker doing this as a volunteer.  So I asked if I could help the
next weekend and he said I should talk to Roger, the owner.  Roger told me
I could help, but the tools must be of the times.  He chopped the date off
a 1550.  So I looked at the type of construction they were using, (big
massive mortise and tenons), and bought a mortising ax and a 2 in. socket
slick from Henry Taylor.  We worked all day and the weekends to come and
we managed to cut and fit 10 rafters, and a large crossbeam (8x8).  Very
hard work, but the morticing ax was the tool to use.  We only had bow
saws, so the sawing was pretty rough.  If I had had a ryoba or a good
Disston, it would have been much easier.  The only tool that I couldn't
find, that would have been right on the money regarding the timesframe,
was the tweebil.  They are not made and the only ones that I know of that
exist are artifacts in museums.  Anybody know anything about tweebils? 
Anyway, it was a great time and I thought about the list while I was
working.

I recently finished my first fine cabinet.  It's a Single Malt Scotch
cabinet.  If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at:

http://michaelegbert.net/Woodworking/WoodworkingHome.htm

I will use my page as my bio and send links when it is updated.

Thanks,
Michael

You are definitely my kind of people: old tools AND Single Malt 
Scotch!!??  It doesn't get any better than that!  Welcome aboard.

On Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 02:11  AM, egbertmr wrote:
>
> I recently finished my first fine cabinet.  It's a Single Malt Scotch
> cabinet.  If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at:
>
> http://michaelegbert.net/Woodworking/WoodworkingHome.htm

Jim Thompson, the old millrat in Riverside, CA

Hi Michael & All,

Welcome aboard! Re your question about the "tweebil". AFAIK, you're
right that they aren't being made any more. Old ones can be found in
antique tool circles, but they're usually pretty pricey. One problem
with looking for them on ebay or such might be that the name is spelled
multiple ways - your way being one I can't recall seeing before. Try
"twybill", "twivel", "twibill", etc.

FYI, there are three fairly distinctly different types - only one of
which I assume you'd want for your purpose. That's the Germanic or PA
Dutch style - quite sturdy and with a handle for chopping with the
blades aimed different directions on each end of the head. This is the
type that's most commonly seen in old paintings and other such artwork
from the 1500s or so and would indeed be appropriate for use in Roger's
village. 

There's another French style that's much longer with what looks like a
socket for a wood handle but is the total handle; it's used like a
chisel and the blade ends are just pushed and pried with that handle -
not chopped. The third is a hurdlemaker's type that's smaller and
lighter than the Germanic style and only used to make light weight
fencing.

Don McConnell and I tried to do some research recently that included,
among other things, some aspects of using a twybill - but we have seemed
to run into nothing but dead ends that are grinding that to a halt.

Best Wishes,
Bob

egbertmr said:
> Hi all.

> I recently finished my first fine cabinet.  It's a Single Malt Scotch
> cabinet.  If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at:

Greetings, Michael, and welcome to the Porch. A very nicely done and very
worthy project indeed. I might make one sometime, though mine will be much
smaller. I just need room for the staples - Laphroaig and Dalmore - and
the odd visitor now and then. A worthwhile way to use a small batch of
really special wood.

Steve - another Kokomo galoot

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:00:06 -0400 (EDT), Steve from Kokomo wrote:

>egbertmr said:
>> Hi all.
>
>> I recently finished my first fine cabinet.  It's a Single Malt Scotch
>> cabinet.  If you would like to see some pictures, they are posted at:
>
>Greetings, Michael, and welcome to the Porch. A very nicely done and very
>worthy project indeed. I might make one sometime, though mine will be much
>smaller. I just need room for the staples - Laphroaig and Dalmore - and
>the odd visitor now and then. A worthwhile way to use a small batch of
>really special wood.

Steve, you're overlooking Michael's especially good taste.  On the bottom row, 
he shows a bottle of Talisker.  Since you appreciate Laphroaig, you would 
undoubtedly find Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, highly appealing.  It's my 
only "staple" SMS.  It's sort of like Walnut or English Oak: Once you've 
worked with it and discovered its advantages, you won't really want to go back 
to the usual stuff.

OT content:  it's mashed and distilled the old-fashioned way and aged in oaken 
barrels.  A wee dram -- and no more -- makes planing very enjoyable.

Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)

Michael D. Sullivan said:

> Steve, you're overlooking Michael's especially good taste.  On the bottom
row,
> he shows a bottle of Talisker.  Since you appreciate Laphroaig, you would
> undoubtedly find Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, highly appealing. >
> OT content:  it's mashed and distilled the old-fashioned way and aged in
oaken
> barrels.  A wee dram -- and no more -- makes planing very enjoyable.
>
> Michael D. Sullivan
> Bethesda, MD (USA)

Michael:

I'm not sure just how much a wee dram is and I didn't have a proper unit fo
mesurement. But from now on id will be (hic) a standarrd tool in myy shop#.
I do ag7gee tht a wee draam hear andthere (hic) maks the (burp) plannning go
verry smoooth. Ad least id sems (hic)0 thad way.  I fugered a dram is @bout
like a pint. So a cople of dem (hic) made foe^ v$erry a meerry time int the
shpp. I thind htt thissuggestion3 shud (hic) be addedd to gree Q&A in he
(hic) arcives. thans fo the tipp .have a g*ate day. (hic) I gh%- and RU$*.
fo now.

Regards,
Col. Dick Hucker (getting good at making curly (hic) toothpicks

> Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
> To unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface:
>     http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools

Michael D. Sullivan said:

> Steve, you're overlooking Michael's especially good taste.  On the
> bottom row,  he shows a bottle of Talisker.  Since you appreciate
> Laphroaig, you would  undoubtedly find Talisker, from the Isle of Skye,
> highly appealing.  It's my  only "staple" SMS.  It's sort of like Walnut
> or English Oak: Once you've  worked with it and discovered its
> advantages, you won't really want to go back  to the usual stuff.
>
> OT content:  it's mashed and distilled the old-fashioned way and aged in
> oaken  barrels.  A wee dram -- and no more -- makes planing very
> enjoyable.

Indeed I did notice the Talisker which I know only by reputation. I didn't
want to appear more erudite than I am because I haven't yet talked myself
into the investment - equivalent to the Scottish plow plane (plough, Jeff)
that I bought at the last LFOD auction in Indy. It's a choice that no one
should be forced to make - an old tool (more likely several) or a bottle
of Talisker. But one of these days....

OT content: Scotch - whiskey and planes.

Steve - another Kokomo galoot

>Hi Michael & All,
>
>Welcome aboard! Re your question about the "tweebil". AFAIK, you're
>right that they aren't being made any more. Old ones can be found in
>antique tool circles, but they're usually pretty pricey.

I see no reason a smith couldn't make you one up. Might also be 
pricey, depending, but the fact that you can't get one at Ace or True 
Value does not mean you can't get one at all. I'd be surprised if 
there isn't a smith associated with Camlann. The smith is an 
important guy in the 15th century, and he's important because he 
makes things other people need to get stuff done.

For storage, there are several things, but I can't claim to have it 
all sorted out. I like rolls for augers and chisels - portable, can 
be hung up or laid out to work with. I'm really fond of well fitted 
cases and boxes, but have found it difficult to get going on my own 
(what if I add another thingus to this logical group? What groups are 
logical? Where to start? etc...)

As for OT SMS, 18 year old Macallan aged in sherry casks is my 
preference, and has been since before I was 30. You folks are welcome 
to the heavily burnt peat malts. I see a 12 year old Macallan on the 
shelf, but I can't read the fine print on it. As far as I recall, the 
12 year old is no longer available in sherry wood (or the sherry wood 
is no longer available in 12 year old, as you prefer). It was fine 
when it was, but at some point only the 18 year old stuff was 
available with that particular variant.
-- 
-Lawrence H Smith, Librarian/Computarian for Buxton School and Woodworker
-lsmith@s...      Cats, Coffee, Chocolate... Vices to live by.

On 9 Sep 2003 at 10:43, Bob Nelson wrote:

> MORAL; Start drinking single malt as soon as you're able - the heck with
> this wait until you're over 40 concept. 

I thought the only rule was you had to be older than the Scotch.

Anyway, with respect to the original question on tool storage, 
"philosophy" is definitely an appropriate word. I suspect the only 
thing many would agree on is that The Toolbox Book is a really good 
place to start, as it presents many choices. You get to review a 
number of alternatives that may not yet have occurred to you, and 
try to match one to your chosen methods of work and what you are 
building. Also, your working set of tools (with room for expansion, of 
course) is likely to drive a number of decisions.

For me, I have gravitated to the following, but am still flexible 
enough to change as the shop planning continues. There's a bunch 
of boards that used to be a friend's redwood fence (reuse instead of 
cutting down new trees) out behind the pump house, and I am 
arranging them on the ground in many interesting ways these days.

1) I like to keep my bench planes under my bench, because I use 
them a great deal.

2) Specialty planes now live in the new glass-front cabinet, so I can 
see where they are and yet keep the dust off of them.

3) Wooden moulding planes have their own cabinet, although many 
folks like tool chests for this.

4) Saws belong in a saw till, rather than hanging on walls as in my 
shop. These days I use my backsaws more than ever, and I am 
thinking of finding a way to keep them closer to my bench. If the saw 
till is too far away when I get around to building it, I may need 
another alternative to keep them handy, at least the two or three that 
get daily use.

5) Long skinny things probably belong in drawers. This includes 
chisels, even though mine hang on the wall in a shop-made rack. 
The good news with respect to the rack is that they are handy 
(again, close to the bench is good) and you can look at them all in a 
single glance to pick out the right size. The bad news is that they 
used to fall out once in a while, and there is a risk of damage or at 
least painful retrieval. I have seen shops where the chisels were in 
drawers and it looked quite appealing. I could live with it. 

Bitstock likely should be in drawers if you've got the room (bit blocks 
are OK if you don't have a great deal like I do). And I want my 
marking and measuring stuff to be in a drawer some day, rather 
than the cool but not overly protective cigar box they live in now. I 
had a wall mounted rack for files in my old shop, but it was poorly 
designed and they tended to end up on the floor while reaching for 
something above them. Not as serious a problem as with chisels, 
but still a bad thing. Files and rasps in a drawer? Maybe, I have not 
figured that one out yet.

6) Some things just naturally seem to hang on the walls, like braces 
and eggbeater drills. 

As you can tell, I don't gravitate towards a large "one size holds 
everything" type of tool storage solution, even though my tool 
acquisition has slowed down quite a bit these days. There clearly 
are beautiful and useful tool cabinets out there that do follow this 
route, just as for some folks a tool chest is the most comfortable 
way to work.

-Ken

Ken Greenberg (ken@c...)
667 Brush Creek Road, Santa Rosa, CA 95404
woodworking page: http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/wood.htm

Bob Nelson said:
> MORAL; Start drinking single malt as soon as you're able - the heck with
> this wait until you're over 40 concept.

And the cost will serve as deterrent to swilling it down and getting
plastered. Drink less and enjoy it more - a sure road to moderation.

OT Content: Moderation can be applied to the acquisition of old tools too,
though I don't personally recommend it. ;^)

Steve - another Kokomo galoot

Galooterati,

My storage solutions include (inter alia) five recycled items:

1.  The mail sorter pigeonholes from a nearby town's post office--56
    openings in a 7X8 grid, each about 4X7 inches and over a foot deep.
    This holds planes of many types. It sits atop--

2.  A set of old barber's cabinets--three drawers on top and six flip-
    down doors below (where the towels used to go, I imagine). Thes
    hold a miscellany of bulkier stuff--plow planes, things in boxes,
    and so on.

3.  An old specimen cabinet discarded by the natural history museum the
    LOML used to work for--waist-high, two ranks of ten drawers. Holds
    flat or long-and-skinny stuff--chisels, files, bits, shoulder
    planes, layout tools. On top of this are two Gerstner toolchests--
    but they're not recycled.

4&5. Two discarded library card catalogue stacks, each with 15 drawers.
The card guide hardware has been removed and the slots in the bottoms
covered with lauan plywood recycled from some cheap sliding doors
(formerly on the base cabinets in our garden shed). These hold
hardware, mostly.

While the first three items are unique, the card catalogues are easy to
pick up at fleas and anteek mauls--the libraries are all going to
electronic cataloguing.

Clearly, I need to make an inspired find to convert to a saw till or
I'll actually have to (shudder) _make_ something...

John Wadsworth, in Delhi, NY

 >>>Try "twybill", "twivel", "twibill", etc

Thank you all for the compliments and comments.

Here is what Sloan says about the twibil:

'... all two-bitted hatchets might have been at some time called
'twin-bills,' 'twibils,' or 'twivels.'  Still used in England (England,
Jeff) to cut hurdle mortises, the twivel there is called 'tomyhawk,'
'dader,' or 'two-bill.' '

Apperantly, the twivel was never struck with a mallot, only used as a
chopping tool.  I don't htink that it would have been very accurate unless
you used it everyday and were some kind of mortice hacking lord.  I used a
morticing ax to great effect by lining it up cross-grain on the mortice
outline, then giving it a whack with a modified dogwood froe hammer on
both sides.  Then, I would cut along the grain to finish the outline of
the mortice.  Then I would make cuts along the grain spaced about 3/4 in.
apart, going in at a 45 deg. angle to the surface of the wood.  After each
cut, I would slightly lever the ax with a froe-like action.  The wood came
out in pieces 3/4 in. square and 6 in. long.  They stacked up so quick it
looked like french, err sorry, freedom fries.  (Is that still the officail
name of fried potatoes?)

The key was to cut the cross grain and let the lever action create the
failure at the weakest point of the grain bond.  I know it may seem like I
over analysized this, but there's not much else to do when you are cutting
dozens of massive mortices.  The only saving grace was that the wood was
doug fir.  Small blessings.

Camlann does have a blacksmith.  They also have the following:  Knights
swign real swords at each other, an armorsmith, a boyer, a jongler
(spelling?), apple press (that was cool), thespians, and a medieval
banquet.

I talked with the blacksmith about doing some pulls for future cabinet and
he was willing, and the costs were high, but reasonable all things
considered.  He also told me about a butchers wax finish on iron.  Very
interesting.  They are planning to build a forge in the future.  That will
be great.

Michael  

If this group applies the same "moderation" to single malt that we do to
rust hunting we'll need our own AA chapter.
Steve
Who finds being broke or in his wifes presence the only source or
moderation either way

Steve Lineback wrote:

>If this group applies the same "moderation" to single malt that we do to
>rust hunting we'll need our own AA chapter.
>Steve
>Who finds being broke or in his wifes presence the only source or
>moderation either way

Single malts still taste like peat flavored Listerine to me but otherwise 
the Support Group From Hell is, with the collective ingenuity of 
countless Porch denizens, here to help you fully live the Galoot 
Experience.

Yes, we're here to help you rationalize that next tool purchase, give you 
tips on haggling for flea market and garage sale bargains, and the best 
techniques for getting the new acquisition out of the Mobile Solar Kiln 
and into the basement or garage past the skeptical eyes of your 
Significant Other.

We're here to give you tips on Cubicle or Office Woodworking without 
getting caught by the Powers That Be and Wound Management techniques when 
those inevitable 'Uh-Ohs' strike at work or home. Plus how to get blood 
off of your half-completed projects or the best choice of stains and 
glazes to disguise the spatter patterns if it sets up before your return 
from the Urgent Care Center.

We're here to provide you with an unending series of Internet links to 
*bay auctions, new tool sources, pictures of 'whatsits', and jpegs of our 
recent finds. You won't actually have to spend another minute woodworking 
again as all of your spare moments can be spent on hunting new tools, 
getting them into the house, cleaning them up, sharpening them, cutting 
yourself with them, telling us about them and reading about the 
experiences of other Porch dwellers.

If you do have an overwhelming urge to actually use your tools, we're 
here to give you pages of contradictory advice on bench selection and 
construction as well as bench dogs. Yes, bench dogs, round or square? 
Plus endless and entertaining discussion of toolchest construction and 
placement.

We're here to teach you the Art of the Gloat. Soon you too will be 
writing long rambling accounts of your flea market and garage sale forays 
where you found rare and sought after tools for less than the price of 
fast-food combo meals. We'll teach you the art of Drive-by Gloating by 
sprinkling accounts of rare tool acquisition in your discourse on other 
topics and posting jpegs of your recent finds with other 'hot' tools 
innocently placed in the background, just slightly out of focus. Or 
posting in-your-face jpegs of toolchests stuffed with gleaming tools 
while ostensibly demonstrating some arcane construction technique.

We're here to fling you down that Slippery Slope and to give you 
additional velocity when it looks like you might be slowing down. 

The Support Group From Hell. Serving countless Galoots since late 1995.
****************************
Tom Price (TomPrice@a...)
Will Work For Tools
The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at:
http://homepage.mac.com/galoot_9/galtprog.html

> We're here to fling you down that Slippery Slope and to give you
> additional velocity when it looks like you might be slowing down.

Yippee!!!!!  I do say that in my most dignified voice, however.   

--- 
Cheers --- Larry Marshall
Quebec City, QC 

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 05:07:31 EDT, TomPrice@a... wrote:

>Single malts still taste like peat flavored Listerine to me but otherwise 
>the Support Group From Hell is, with the collective ingenuity of 
>countless Porch denizens, here to help you fully live the Galoot 
>Experience.

Mmmm!  Peat flavored Listerine!  SMOKED peat flavored Listerine!  Goooood!

Now THAT's a Galoot Experience!  Glad you like it, Tom.

Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)

Welcome Michael,
Sorry to take a few days to welcome you...I was
stuck in a ring posting frenzy.
That medieval stuff sounds like more than enough
fun for one person to have.
Your cabinet has my type of contents, well done.
This was 2 years ago in Scotland.
http://www.petermcbride.com/Glenturret01.jpg
That is me with my Scottish friend Kevin, he has
the hair.
Have a look at what my daughter gave me for
Christmas
http://www.petermcbride.com/nice.jpg

Now the for the Oldtool content...I am risking an
off-topic single malt posting frenzy!

I have moved this around 3 or 4  times now, it is
a *work in progress* I think by the 10th time I
may get it right.
Comments and suggestions are welcome!
Here is the shelf above my bench.
http://www.petermcbride.com/tool_storage.jpg
note the dropdown shelf.
http://www.petermcbride.com/tool_storage1.jpg
http://www.petermcbride.com/tool_storage2.jpg
http://www.petermcbride.com/tool_storage3.jpg
http://www.petermcbride.com/tool_storage4.jpg
I have a steel cupboard to the right with more of
the less often used tools in it.
Didn't post a picture because I am ashamed about
it.
Some wooden cupboards can be built safely after
the kitchen and dinning table is finished.
I have been looking at the recent postings on
bench set-ups.
I have a 2 inch ( 50mm Jeff ) screw box and tap
calling out to be used.
http://www.petermcbride.com/collection/woodscrew.j
pg
This year it will happen...that is my new years
resolution

Regards,
Peter
in sunny but cool Melbourne Aust.
where I am torn between drinking those miniatures
and looking at them in a fitted wooden box
maybe...