OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

80198 Brent Clukey BCLUKEY@e... 2000‑06‑23 Oil then shellac finish
GG's-

I've finished with oil, I've finished with shellac, but this is the first time I
'm 
going to finish with shellac over oil.  Do I need to do anything to the final 
oil coat prior to the first shellac coat?  Lightly scuff sand w/400+?  
Burnish with an old rag?  Lightly scrape with a toothing blade in a 112? 
(Awesome scraping plane that I'm joking about using, Jeff.)  The only 
two things I'm concerned about are the finished looks of the piece ( a 
large bookcase) and the adhesion of the shellac to the oil.

Any input is appreciated.  Thanks.

-Brent Clukey
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                                                                                
                               


80203 "George Wallace" georgew@r... 2000‑06‑23 Re: Oil then shellac finish
Brent,
Just make sure that it is dried and wiped clean so there is no oozing.  And,
of course, use only pure Paddylac.  Makes a great combination finish.  The
oil "pops the grain" and the Paddylac seals it and gives a great polish.

George

George Wallace
Rocky Mountain Fine Furniture
Custom made furniture and pens
www.rmi.net/~georgew


> GG's-
>
> I've finished with oil, I've finished with shellac, but this is the first
time I'm
> going to finish with shellac over oil.  Do I need to do anything to the
final
> oil coat prior to the first shellac coat?  Lightly scuff sand w/400+?
> Burnish with an old rag?  Lightly scrape with a toothing blade in a 112?
> (Awesome scraping plane that I'm joking about using, Jeff.)  The only
> two things I'm concerned about are the finished looks of the piece ( a
> large bookcase) and the adhesion of the shellac to the oil.
>
> Any input is appreciated.  Thanks.
>
> -Brent Clukey
>




80209 "C. McArdle" cmcardle1@e... 2000‑06‑23 Re: Oil then shellac finish
Will you post more about the finishing you're doing - I am thinking about
shellac over oil (on ash), so the particulars of what you've done/are doing
are of interest.

Thanks.

>I'm going to finish with shellac over oil.

chris

cmcardle1@e...

"First we shape our tools.  Thereafter, they shape us."

				-- Marshall McLuhan



80214 JPagona@a... 2000‑06‑23 Re: Oil then shellac finish
I love shellac over oil.  Superblonde dewaxed of course.  The oil really 
brings out the grain and the depth in the wood, and the shellac makes a great 
film finish over the oil.  This is a finish that I often use on the lathe 
with wooden bowls.  I used this finish on a mahogany table, and I rubbed out 
the shellac up to 1200 grit paper.  Man, it looks great.

David Sobel


80200 "Stephen Colebourne" stephenco@p... 2000‑06‑23 Re: Oil then shellac finish
Brent, I have used shellac over oil finishes for a number of years now with
no preparation apart from giving the oil plenty of time to cure,I have never
experienced any problems so far. Shellac is the finish of the gods ,reckon
you could even get it to stick to politicians


80218 TomPrice@a... 2000‑06‑23 Re: Oil then shellac finish
Stephen wrote:

>Brent, I have used shellac over oil finishes for a number of years now with
>no preparation apart from giving the oil plenty of time to cure,I have never
>experienced any problems so far.

You don't need to let the oil cure. I have padded shellac based on Jeff 
Jewitt's instructions on his website, 
http://www.homesteadfinishingprod.com/shellac2.htm . To quote from his 
intructions on oiling:

"The purpose of this step is to seal the wood and give it greater depth. 
On re-finished pieces you can omit this step...I have used a variety of 
oils, but I like linseed and tung oil the best. The amount of oil that is 
used should be very little. Perhaps a thimbleful per square foot is all 
that's needed. Apply just enough to deepen the surface of the wood. Do 
not flood the surface with oil. Apply the oil with a clean soft cloth, 
rub the surface briskly and it will penetrate quickly. After several 
minutes, begin applying the shellac."

That's boiled linseed oil he's referring to, I'm thinking. That's what I 
used. Jeff recommends some special cloth for application but I like to 
use old jocky briefs. The crotch portion makes a great wad for the pad 
and the back half is good for the outer cloth. Otherwise, I followed 
Jeff's instructions and the shellac dried perfectly with good adhesion. 
Seems too good to be true, but it works and looks great. And it's fast. 
Just the thing for use baby-boomers with instant gratification 
expectations. Jeff's article on padding shellac is a must read.

BTW, Dewaxed garnet Paddylac on mahogany is da bomb. Same with 
superblonde on sitka spruce. Superblonde Paddylac is amazing stuff - 
dries fast, clear and hard.
****************************
Tom Price (TomPrice@a...
Will Work For Tools
The Galoot's Progress Old Tools site is at:
http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html


80224 "Michael D. Sullivan" avogadro@b... 2000‑06‑24 Re: Oil then shellac finish
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:38:20 -0400, C. McArdle wrote:

>Will you post more about the finishing you're doing - I am thinking about
>shellac over oil (on ash), so the particulars of what you've done/are doing
>are of interest.

I successfully used shellac over oil on a fiddleback maple handle for a 
pigsticker mortise chisel.  I used a different technique than was recently 
described, however.  After water-based dye, I used linseed oil+mineral 
spirits, wiped off, and just let it dry enough for the mineral spirits to 
evaporate.  Then I applied a few coats of shellac.  Even though the oil hadn't 
dried completely, it seems to have worked just fine.  The oil really popped 
the figure.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
               Michael D. Sullivan, Bethesda, Md., USA
          avogadro@b... (also avogadro@w...
---------------------------------------------------------------------



80226 Don Stern donstern@y... 2000‑06‑24 Re: Oil then shellac finish
Brent,

Not a problem, did some cherry, linseed oil then Paddylac, then wax =
beutiful finish.

don
--- Brent Clukey BCLUKEY@e... wrote:
> GG's-
> 
> I've finished with oil, I've finished with shellac, but this is the
> first time I'm 
> going to finish with shellac over oil.  Do I need to do anything to the
> final 
> oil coat prior to the first shellac coat?  Lightly scuff sand w/400+?  
> Burnish with an old rag?  Lightly scrape with a toothing blade in a 112?
>  
> 


=====
Don Stern
Berkeley, CA

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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80221 "Nuno Souto" nsouto@n... 2000‑06‑24 Re: Oil then shellac finish
----- Original Message -----
From: Brent Clukey BCLUKEY@e...
> going to finish with shellac over oil.  Do I need to do anything to
the final
> oil coat prior to the first shellac coat?  Lightly scuff sand
w/400+?

Most definitely not.  Although if you have some dust stuck to the oil,
you might want to clean it up well before applying the Paddylac.

> two things I'm concerned about are the finished looks of the piece
 a
> large bookcase) and the adhesion of the shellac to the oil.
>

Don't apply the oil the same way as if you're only oiling. Ie, do not
saturate the piece.  Not that you shouldn't, just takes longer to dry.
Make sure the oil coat is reasonably dry before the shellac goes on.
That's all there is to it!

Cheers
Nuno Souto
nsouto@n...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den



80227 "Paul T. Radovanic" paulrad@c... 2000‑06‑24 Re: Oil then shellac finish
Some Galoots comment on oil and shellac:


Priceless Tom:
> You don't need to let the oil cure. I have padded shellac based on 
> Jeff Jewitt's instructions on his website,
> http://www.homesteadfinishingprod.com/shellac2.htm .

Just an FYI -- you can now get to his site just by typing 
"www.homesteadfinishing.com" -- you don't have to add the "prod" any 
more.

> 
clip
> 
> That's boiled linseed oil he's referring to, I'm thinking.


Ayup.  Wonderful stuff.  Actually, Jeff prefers Tried-n-True linseed oil, 
which contains no driers.  But it's heat-treated in a complex process so 
it dries like BLO.  He can afford the stuff.  But I don't think you would 
see any real-world difference in the appearance of the wood whether 
you use $10/gallon hardware-store BLO or the high-priced T&T, when 
you're topcoating with shellac anyway.  However, T&T contains no 
chemical driers or solvents, which is healthier for you and the 
environment, FWIW.  Personally, instead of mineral spirits, I use 
turpentine to thin the boiled linseed oil, because it causes the oil to form 
a more resin-like film then the min.spirits does.


> Jeff recommends some special cloth for application but I like to use
> old jocky briefs. The crotch portion makes a great wad for the pad 


   :^()

The purpose of the inner material is to absorb & hold a lot of shellac.  
Any thick cloth will do, including BVD crotches; wool is particularly 
absorbent.  The outer layer's purpose is to present a smooth, wrinkle- 
and fold-free surface to the wood.  Linen excels here.  But just about 
anything will do; jockey-short rear-ends, t-shirt material, handkerchiefs, 
etc.  Just pull it tight around the core pad.




>  Otherwise, I followed Jeff's
> instructions and the shellac dried perfectly with good adhesion. 
Seems too
> good to be true, but it works and looks great. And it's fast. Just the
> thing for use baby-boomers with instant gratification expectations. 


Heh heh.  Crotches and wads and instant gratification...okay, okay, I'm 
stopping.....

Shellac mixes with and adheres to just about anything.  I actually mixed 
it with spar varnish and applied it to my shop assembly table, but I 
digress.

Just for S&G's, try mixing linseed oil and shellac in the jar sometime and 
experiment with that.  Seriously.  Especially for friction polishing on the 
lathe.


> Jeff's article on padding shellac is a must read.


Absolutely!  And  He's a great guy to do biz with.  I think he 
sells those squeeze bottles for shellac, btw.  His prices on shellac are 
not as good as Paddy's, but all his other stuff is top-quality and 
reasonably priced.  (Usual disclaimers)


> BTW, Dewaxed garnet Paddylac on mahogany is da bomb. 


Now *here* is a man of discrimination, taste and breeding.  Mahogany 
and garnet paddylac is a match made in heaven!


with 
> superblonde on sitka spruce. Superblonde Paddylac is amazing stuff 
- dries
> fast, clear and hard. **************************** Tom Price


And buttonlac on oak, and orange or garnet on walnut, and blonde or 
garnet on cherry or pine, and....

BTW, after the color coat, apply a couple of topcoats of blonde.  Trust 
me.



Mike Sully:
> I successfully used shellac over oil on a fiddleback maple handle for 
a
> pigsticker mortise chisel.  I used a different technique than was 
recently
> described, however.  After water-based dye, I used linseed 
oil+mineral
> spirits, wiped off, and just let it dry enough for the mineral spirits to
> evaporate.  Then I applied a few coats of shellac.  Even though the 
oil
> hadn't dried completely, it seems to have worked just fine.  The oil
> really popped the figure.


Ayup!  It works flawlessly.  The only difference is that topping with 
shellac over the wet oil makes the oil take longer to fully cure (since the 
shellac seals off the air), so you'll retain that solvent smell for a longer 
time than if you had let the oil cure first.  For tool handles, that's no 
BFD.  For furniture, it might matter.


 In response to Brent, Nuno wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brent Clukey 
> > going to finish with shellac over oil.  Do I need to do anything to
> the final
> > oil coat prior to the first shellac coat?  Lightly scuff sand
> w/400+?
> 
> Most definitely not.  Although if you have some dust stuck to the oil, you
> might want to clean it up well before applying the Paddylac.


Ayup!  Briefly, varnishes have to be scuffed before re-coating; shellac 
and lacquer do not; unless, as Nuno points out, you have dust nibs, 
June bugs, raised grain, or drips/runs to smooth out.  Oh, and Paddy 
figured out that you can use a scraper instead of glass paper to smooth 
shellac.



> > two things I'm concerned about are the finished looks of the piece
>  a
> > large bookcase) and the adhesion of the shellac to the oil.


> Don't apply the oil the same way as if you're only oiling. Ie, do not
> saturate the piece.  Not that you shouldn't, just takes longer to dry.
> Make sure the oil coat is reasonably dry before the shellac goes on.
> That's all there is to it!


Ayup!  The oil penetrates the wood.  Think of smearing oil on a brown 
paper bag (which, after all, used to be wood before it was a paper bag). 
 The smear would be translucent.  Oil's effect on wood is the same, for 
the same reasons; it adds translucence.  It also collects in the grain and 
pores, darkening them slightly, which adds "depth". All of this produces, 
as they say in the trade, "chatoyance" -- which is a sort of 3-D, 
'hologram' effect.

The shellac topcoat then acts as a lens, focusing light on all that 
translucence and chatoyance.  The shellac also adds sheen, protection 
and color.

Having said all that, there are three different effects here, achieved with 
variations on the method.

Variation #1.)  Apply one coat of oil like any normal oil application, 
letting it soak for 15 minutes to an hour, then wiping off the excess.  Let 
dry for a few days to a week, so the oil cures.  Then build a series of 
shellac topcoats for a film-finish -- I'm talking as many as 10 or 12 thin 
coats of shellac.  Then rub out the shellac to the desired sheen, 
anywhere from satin to gloss.  This should only be done on close-
grained woods, or on porous woods that have had the grain filled.  This 
is a formal finish, to be used on formal pieces, like a hall or sofa table, 
or a display case (even a bookcase.)

Variation #2.) A shortcut version of #1, also described by Tom above, 
when he quoted Jeff Jewitt.  That is to use a thimbleful of oil per square 
foot, rub in well, let dry for a few minutes, then proceed with a shellac 
schedule of, say 4 or 5 coats, then rub it out and wax it.  This results in 
a slightly more satin sheen finish than (#1) above, but it's beautiful and 
it's quick.  It still looks like a shellac film finish, and the same rules apply
 
as in (#1) above -- that is, closed-pore surfaces; more formal 
appearance.  Only the most discriminating eye can tell the difference 
between this and the first one above.

Variation #3.) Apply the oil like any normal oil application, letting it soak 
for 15 minutes to an hour, then wiping off the excess.  Then 
immediately, while the oil is still wet, wipe it down with a shellac-soaked 
rag, using plenty of shellac (the oil prevents the rag from sticking).  
Don't think of this as a shellac finish.  The purpose of this finish is to 
mimic a close-to-the-wood, oil finish of four or five coats.  Normally, four 
or five coats of oil would require 48-72 hours of drying/curing between 
coats (as much as two weeks to compete the finish!  But with this 
method of one oil coat, one immediate shellac coat, you get almost 
exactly that same effect, but you are finished in an hour -- boom, done.  
There's no rubbing out; but after a week, apply wax with 0000 steel wool 
or abrasive pad, then use a soft-bristled, shoe-type brush to work any 
excess wax out of the pores (on porous woods).  Think of this as an oil 
finish, to be used on open-pored surfaces, or on simple or rustic 
pieces.  

The shellac also adds a great deal of moisture protection, when 
compared to a straight, linseed-oil finish.  A straight linseed oil finish's 
biggest downfall is that water will penetrate it within 10 seconds, no 
matter how many coats you apply, or how long it has cured.


Just once, everyone should try the old-time, serious oil finish, where 
you apply one coat every hour for a day, then once every day for a 
week, then once every week for a month, then once every month for a 
year.  Then you will *know* what the deep, shimmering glow of this time-
honored finish really looks like.  It's not just the build up of all that oil; i
t's 
also the effect of all that rubbing and polishing, even if it's done with just 
a rag, or a bare (gloved) hand.  Then you can compare it to the 
shellac/oil finishes and decide for yourself.


Paul Radovanic in Florida,

who just today applied finish number (3) above to a shop-made, 
combination bench-hook / shooting board.  One side is a bench hook 
for sawing; flip it over and it's a shooting board for planing.  

> 



Recent Bios FAQ