OldTools Archive
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271339 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑06‑28 | wot' zat iz? |
Hello everyone, I've found an interesting auction that definitely looks like a handled auger bit, but there doesn't seem to be a twist/cutter. Is it so badly rusty that it's completely gone? Or is it a very loooong gimlet? That would be very fragile. It's made by Cornellius Whitehouse & sons See https://www.trademe.co.nz/antiques-collectables/tools/listing-2680579604.htm Chris |
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271341 | Tim Pendleton <tpendleton@g...> | 2020‑06‑28 | Re: wot' zat iz? |
On June 28, 2020, at 1:50 AM, Christian Gagneraud |
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271438 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Most of the tricky bits are done. If you don't get the keel/frame joints right, then the boat could be structurally compromised, and there are so many different things happening that you have to stay on your toes. Remember there are 10(+) tons of lead hanging off the bottom of the keel. Planking and decking are pretty straightforward without a lot of complexity. My guess is there will be a pretty fancy interior - lots of cabinetry. One shot in the video showed the fellow fairing the inside surfaces of the frames (so that any palnking that is installed in there will have good seating) and you could see he was next to a big varnished Mahogany (?) beam called a carlin. It bolts to the frames and the deck beams bolt to it, so it is an important joint, and they thought ahead enough to varnish it before it went in the boat to make it easier. If they varnished the carlin, there should be some pretty cool stuff inside. We have 40 year old interior varnish in some paces that still looks fine as it gets no sun and no water on it. When he was working on the bronze floors, my guess was $5-800 each without his labor, and at the end he said the bronze alone was $11K and there are 19 frames, and the labor and equipment had to be another $11K, so over $1,000 each. This is a yacht technique, and only the best yachts had them. I helped a friend working on rebuilding the very first Concrodia Yawl which was very narrow and 44 feet, so the floors were smaller and much more delicate than these and he just cut them out of pine and screwed them together and bunged the holes. His did not need the stretcher across the top. I think he is 40% done, depending on how fancy the interior gets, maybe a little more. The part he is done with includes a lot of demo and decisions. The rig will be fun to watch go together. Cool story about the Concordia yawl. It was mahogany planking over oak frames, built in 1939? so in 1979 it was about 40 years old, but still in very nice shape. My friend wanted to strip the hull and varnish it, so he called Concordai to find out what he could about the hull. They gave him the number of the foreman who was on the job, long since retired. The guy told him that it was specified as paint grade and the second plank down on the port side was very pale, so he wouldn't recommend varnish. My friend stripped a section of that plank, and sure enough it was that yellow/grey that mahagany can be. https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/50096043847/in/album-72157651828962189/ Ed Minch |
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271443 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Paul Galoot years, dog years, or human years? Don’t leave me hanging. Mick Dowling |
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271446 | Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Hey Mick, I'm assuming the running joke on the Tally Ho VLOG is scaled for human years, but as the answer to the "when will you be finished" question is always "two years" we may be working with a whole new measurement for time. That's a heavy bit of lifting for the noodle of this particular galoot. I've been called a "plank" before but never a "Max Planck". Paul, in SF, who is waiting for the next episode to drop this weekend. On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 3:27 AM Mick Dowling |
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271447 | Bill Ghio | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
IIRCC Mick was the instigator of this bing watching of Tally Ho. Do you realize how many collective Galoot hours have been squandered? I’ll bet some of us are even falling behind on our already glacially slow project progress... |
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271449 | Joe Jerkins <jerkinsjoe@g...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
saw this quip today that fits this esteemed group, "I never finish anything. It's almost like I have a black belt in partial arts." Cheers all. Joe On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:24 AM Bill Ghio via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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271453 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
bill, i hardly call it "squandered". it's been a fascinating exercise in meticulous galoothood, even with the use of tailed apprentices. i was bummed when i reached the end of the episodes and was brought up to current; waiting two weeks vs. binge watching is fraught with wonder. bill felton, ca On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:24 AM Bill Ghio via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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271454 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
i'm going to carve that mostly into a Planck and hang it in my shop. or at least i'll outline the letters. or maybe just choose the wood. bill felton, ca |
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271455 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Well, I’ll confess, among friends, that I spent about 3 days catching up on the ‘Acorn to Arabella’ series of videos where they start from trees and (will) end up with a boat. Plenty of galootish content - including a ‘how I sharpen my tools’ few minutes. They are ‘beginners’ whereas Leo is a boatbuilder, and the degree of innate knowledge on the two projects is very complementary. Time I’ll not see again! Knowledge and ’someone else’s experience’ that I’ll retain… Richard Wilson Near the North Sea. In Northumbria |
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271457 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
yer a piker, richard :). i spent about three WEEKS catching up on 71 episodes of tally ho. i'd go through and watch the earlier ones again if i had the chance (time is tight at the moment) because of what i've learned (and what leo learned) during the early days. but yes, knowledge and 'someone else's experience'... bill felton, ca On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:23 PM yorkshireman@y... < yorkshireman@y...> wrote: |
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271458 | Mike Lynd | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Richard, if you liked 'Acorn to Arabella', you need to read 'From Tree to Sea: The Building of a Wooden Steam drifter', 1985, by Ted Frost. Apprenticed as a shipwright in 1916, he describes boat traditional building techniques of the 20s and 30s in an East Coast boat yard, with a wonderful vocabulary of incomprehensible specialist terminology and his own superb drawings. best wishes, Mike On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 21:23, yorkshireman@y... < yorkshireman@y...> wrote: |
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271459 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Hi Bill Galoot hours Bill, not actual hours. It’s not possible to squander a Galoot hour. Sheesh. Mick Dowling |
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271460 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑10 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Most professional boatbuilders I have met are more like Peter Follansbee. Highly skilled, but only do as much as they need to do to get the job done with the aesthetics needed. Leo is a cabinetmaker working ona boat. HIs knowledge is tremendous and his tools are just right, but he spends a lot of time. Ed Minch |
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271465 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2020‑07‑11 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Oooh - dialect. I had to look up piker. The tool? or process used to clear out the touch-hole (scottish usage) - I guess that the tool, or process is somewhat like a full size pike, clearing out someones innards, so to clear your touch-hole, you would ‘pike it’ (english dialect dictionary https://archive.org/details/englishdialect di04wriguoft/page/168/mode/2up?q=piker">https://archive.org/details/englishdiale ctdi04wriguoft/page/168/mode/2up?q=piker ) on page 500 though, we find that it is indeed a tool. ’The birse for cleaning out the pan and the piker for the motion hole’ I was feeling somewhat honoured, in an odd kind of way, when I consulted Heslop, and found a completely alternative meaning PIKE, a pointed or peaked pile of hay made up, like a temporary stack, in the hay-field till it can be carted to the farm-yard. A pike contains about one cart-load of hay. Piker, a builder of hay pikes. PIKER, the nose. A cant term. " Had up yor piker.” So. Bill is calling me a nose. I always thought I had a fine nose - for what it is. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I’m not upset. Hod on though. More contemporary references exist, and they say PIKER 1. (Animals) Austral a wild bullock 2. Austral and NZ a useless person; failure 3. US and Austral and NZ a lazy person; shirker 4. a mean person [C19: perhaps related to pike3] and also PIKER 1. a person who does anything in a contemptibly small or cheap way. 2. a person who gambles or speculates in a cautious way. [1275–1325; Middle English: petty thief =pik(en) to pick1 + -er -er1; compare dial. (N England, Scots, Hiberno-E) pike topick1] So it seems that Bill DOES know me, and my Yorkshire reputation for being a tightwad. I have to say though, that I was watching videos, as I usually do with home made affairs, at one and half times speed. The commentary is perfectly lucid, as amateurs usually drone and drivel too much, and you get back a serious amount of time. If the action gets to be interesting or detailed, then you can slow down, otherwise keep charging on. And to stay on OldTools ground, the initial set up and hand adzing of the keel and deadwood was very impressive, as is the planking - and the mistakes they made, which were as interesting as the good bits - like fabricating the bronze floors. Good contrast between the design and making decisions of the two sets of builders. Leo turns up at one point, and they evidently have a good working relationship between themselves. Richard Wilson A Tyke oop North. |
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271467 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑11 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
> > Oooh - dialect. > > I had to look up piker. > The tool? or process used to clear out the touch-hole (scottish usage) - I guess that the tool, or process is somewhat like a full size pike, clearing out someones innards, so to clear your touch-hole, you would ‘pike it’ > (english dialect dictionary https://archive.org/details/englishdiale ctdi04wriguoft/page/168/mode/2up?q=piker">https://archive.org/details/englishdia lectdi04wriguoft/page/168/mode/2up?q=piker <https://archive.org/det ails/englishdialectdi04wriguoft/page/168/mode/2up?q=piker">https://archive.org/d etails/englishdialectdi04wriguoft/page/168/mode/2up?q=piker> ) > > on page 500 though, we find that it is indeed a tool. ’The birse for cleaning out the pan and the piker for the motion hole’ > > Hod on though. More contemporary references exist, and they say > > PIKER > 1. (Animals) Austral a wild bullock > 2. Austral and NZ a useless person; failure > 3. US and Austral and NZ a lazy person; shirker > 4. a mean person > [C19: perhaps related to pike3] > > and also > > PIKER > > 1. a person who does anything in a contemptibly small or cheap way. > 2. a person who gambles or speculates in a cautious way. > [1275–1325; Middle English: petty thief =pik(en) to pick1 + -er -er1; compare dial. (N England, Scots, Hiberno-E) pike topick1] > > My 1867 Sailor’s Word Book (one of 2 pretty definitive Englsih sailing term references) does not have “piker” in it. It says a pike is the usual weapon, precurser to the bayonet, or a fish, but that’s it. On a half dozen ships that I have sailed in, the small pointed brass rod that pricks open the cartridge wall once it is in the gun barrel is called a prick, and my book uses this definition. But that also may have been what Bill meant. I have never known the actual definition of piker, but got a sense of a general ner-do-well, so it is good to see it - now I can use the term with purpose and confidence. And remember, there are no cannon aboard a ship, only guns. Ed Minch |
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271468 | gary may | 2020‑07‑12 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Hence the term 'loose gun'. And remember, there are no cannon aboard a ship, only guns. Ed Minch ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. To change your subscription options: https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools To read the FAQ: https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/ OldTools@s... |
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271470 | Mike Lynd | 2020‑07‑12 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Carronades? Mike On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 at 06:56, gary may via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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271471 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑12 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
There were several types of guns aboard, cannon being one. They varied in length and weight of ball depending on what they were intended to do. To refer to the gun as a cannon was like referring to your shoes as Nike’s. I am sure it was done. My favorite naval artillery platform was the Bomb Ketch, which the French perfected. It was a ship without a foremast to clear deck space at the front of the boat. The mainmast was extra tall to make up for some of the lost sail area, Then a couple of mortars were mounted on the deck. Imagine how embarassing it would be to destroy your own rigging. Once they put a fuse in the ball they were very devastating. And those mortars are guns. https://www.mariner80.com/291969847 <https://www.mariner80.com/291969847> Ed Minch |
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271472 | Paul Honore <lawnguy44@g...> | 2020‑07‑12 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Saw a piece on PBS last night about Salem Ma. and the China trade ships in the 1700's. Supposedly the crew on those were less than twenty men and since a gun crew consisted of 4 men, that was a luxury they couldn't afford. So they created replicas out of wood to scare away the bad guys. Any truth to that? Paul H in Hebron CT where the flea markets are not open. |
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271473 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑12 | Re: Tally Ho. Bronze casting. |
Paul I, for one, am not familair with that particular story, but I can very easily see it happening. There was a scene in Master and Commander where they disguised the ship as a whaler to entice the French warship to attack. I would have waited longer to raise the British flag and alert the other side, or even not raised it all, but the “Honore” of the service was at stake and Captain Jack may have felt a gentlemanly responsibiity to raise the flag well before engagement. oldtool content - black powder Ed Minch |
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