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271362 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑07‑03 | Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Hi Gallots! Just found this auger-ish bit: https://chgansdesign.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/2020-07-03_21-19-19-1.jpg https://chgansdesign.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/2020-07-03_21-19-04-1.jpg https://chgansdesign.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/2020-07-03_21-18-59-1.jpg https://chgansdesign.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/2020-07-03_21-18-53-1.jpg https://chgansdesign.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/2020-07-03_21-18-49-1.jpg It looks hand forged to me, it has a notch on the tang, and is a simple twisted flat bar, with a tapered profile. The cutting edge looks weird tho, sort of halfway b/w a gimlet and an auger bit. Haven't tried it, but i would say that it doesn't cut, as it is right now. It is a left turn bit! I remember reading an online pdf about brace and auger bit history, it had a map of Europe showing the origin of different tang shapes. But i can't find it anymore, spent an hour googling, and finally gave up. And AFAIR, there was a section about left turning bits, saying these are old bits from continental Europe. Anyone would have more information? Could this be a bit from early or mid 1800's? Please, no "farmerize" joke! ;-) Cheers, Chris |
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271366 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑03 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Chris, GGs If right twist bits remove material then maybe left handed bits are for replacing it. Possibly a Lie-Nielsen ancestors attempt at an April 1st joke. A properly serious thought. Left twist bits, why? Or, alternatively right twist bits, why? Is there a mechanical advantage to right or left twist bits, depending on whether you are right or left handed? Mick Dowling Melbourne Australia |
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271367 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑07‑03 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 10:24, Mick Dowling |
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271368 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑03 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Where can I buy one! Mick Dowling |
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271369 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑07‑03 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 11:05, Mick Dowling |
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271374 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
is the metric system left-handed? It's so sinister and gauche. Ed Minch |
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271375 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
No Ed, it’s equally left and right handed, adding up to 10. Mick Dowling Melbourne Australia |
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271376 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020, Cheeky Ed Minch said: > is the metric system left-handed? It's so sinister and gauche. :) I think back in that day, they were not metric. France had its own inch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_inch), which of course was not the same as its English counterpart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_measurement_in_France_before_th e_French_Revolution">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_measurement_in_Franc e_before_the_French_Revolution) I don't know about other European countries, but i wouldn't be surprised if everyone had their own measurement systems. Regarding left/right, I was surprised like yourself. I'm actually not sure if it was specific to continental Europe and i still can't find this PDF i'm looking for. Given i'm in New Zealand right now, it's more likely this bit came from the UK or US, but if it's really that old, then more likely the UK. Let me take my vernier caliper ... (/me going to the shed with a torch lamp, as there's no electricity there) Tada! This bit is 0.5225 imperial inch at its widest, so looks like an 1/2". Or 13.27mm, which doesn't look close to a plausible common metric size. Chris |
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271377 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 00:41, Christian Gagneraud |
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271378 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
the Vasa - largest warship there was in 1628 - rolled over and sank as it left the dock for the first time. It was raised in 1961 and held untold treasures. They laser tracked its entire hull and found that one side of the hull has about 10% more wood in it than the other. They also found 3 carpenter’s rules that had fallen into the bilge during construction. Among the 3 there were 2 different inches. They havent drawn any conclusions. Ed Minch |
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271380 | Timothy J Pendleton <tpendleton@g...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On July 4, 2020, at 8:01 AM, Ed Minch |
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271383 | Dave Tardiff | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
It occurs to me that if the blacksmith making the bit does the habitual clockwise twist when forming the bit....it'll turn out to be a left handed auger? And I can't see how direction matters if being used in a wooden brace with a catch for that notch.... So perhaps just a lack of planning ahead by the smith? -----Original Message----- From: Mick Dowling |
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271386 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On 2020-07-04 1:34 p.m., Dave Tardiff via OldTools wrote: > It occurs to me that if the blacksmith making the bit does the habitual clockwise twist when forming the bit....it'll turn out to be a left handed auger? > And I can't see how direction matters if being used in a wooden brace with a catch for that notch.... > So perhaps just a lack of planning ahead by the smith? Left-hand twist bits are readily available for screw extraction and perhaps other uses. A lot of trades employ tools which are more-or-less unique to a particular task in their skill-set. I wonder if this old forged bit had a special purpose we're just not contemplating? Think outside of the box. FWIW Don -- “Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.” — Albert Einstein “Worry less, concentrate more, and above all relax.” James Krenov “It is not light that we need, but fire; it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake.” — Frederick Douglass |
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271389 | Thomas Conroy | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Christian Gagneraud wrote: > > It is a left turn bit! > > I remember reading an online pdf about brace and auger bit history, it > had a map of Europe showing the origin of different tang shapes. But i > can't find it anymore, spent an hour googling, and finally gave up. > And AFAIR, there was a section about left turning bits, saying these > are old bits from continental Europe. > > Anyone would have more information? >-------------------------------- Chris: Could the twist be the remains of a left-hand screw thread, used for screwing on another piece? The idea in my mind is that it might be the handle segment of a wooden pipe auger, maybe ten feet long overall but made in segments so that it could be broken down for easy carrying from farm to farm. Either George Sturt or Walter Rose has a chapter on making wooden well pumps, which involved long pipe augurs. If the segments connected with left-hand screws but the cutting end was right-hand it would tighten in use; if everything was right-hand, it wouldd come apart in use, potentially leaving the cutting end stuck in the log. Tom ConroyBerkeley |
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271390 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Could it have been a regional thing? Spoon bits are omni directional (well not spinning top to bottom) so maybe it didn’t matter for a time or place for a while Ed Minch |
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271391 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
> > Chris: > > Could the twist be the remains of a left-hand screw thread, used for screwing on another piece? The idea in my mind is that it might be the handle segment of a wooden pipe auger, maybe ten feet long overall but made in segments so that it could be broken down for easy carrying from farm to farm. Either George Sturt or Walter Rose has a chapter on making wooden well pumps, which involved long pipe augurs. If the segments connected with left-hand screws but the cutting end was right-hand it would tighten in use; if everything was right-hand, it wouldd come apart in use, potentially leaving the cutting end stuck in the log. > Tom ConroyBerkeley I’ve showed this before but it is so cool that I will again https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49336214953/in/album-72157712535 614923/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49336214953/in/album-72157712535 614923/ <https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49336214953/in/albu m-72157712535614923/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49336214953/in/albu m-72157712535614923/> Ship fitter and pump maker, late 17th c, Rotterdam. Ships used pumps too because at the time they leaked pretty horribly. And using trunnels to fasten planks, one of them sprung pretty often. The pump augers appear to be all one piece, but in Wilmington DE where I lived for 3 decades, they would still dig up a piece of wooden pipe underground, sometimes 20 feet long. Ed Minch |
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271392 | "Stager, Scott P." <StagerS@m...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On Jul 3, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Mick Dowling |
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271393 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
This is great, Ed! Thanks a load! |
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271394 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Right hand twist is "Sunwise" and Sunwise is fortunate. And the vast majority of us are right handed. Left hand twist in a brace would be more ergonomic for a left handed person. I guess you could call this piece a "bit sinister." |
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271395 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑04 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
"A box a left-handed wood screws please”. As a young apprentice, I did get sent to the workshop store for a long weight. I kinda knew I was being stooged, but I sat down anyway and was sent back to the workshop empty handed after…………maybe 10 minutes. Mick Dowling |
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271397 | Christian Gagneraud <chgans@g...> | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 10:40, Ed Minch |
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271399 | Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
On 5/07/2020 9:54 am, Mick Dowling wrote: > "A box a left-handed wood screws please”. You'll find those next to the cans of striped paint. |
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271400 | Thomas Conroy | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Scott Stager wrote: "Tom - think that through again - I think I disagree with you. "Right hand twist to drill would tighten right hand threads on rod segments. "Right?" Absolutely right. I was thinking from a false analogy, and I was dead wrong. Stupidly wrong. Grossly, grotesquely wrong. Pass over that cuspidor, it needs a good buff-up. Tom |
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271410 | Chuck Taylor | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Gentle Galoots, Mick wrote: > "A box a left-handed wood screws please”. When I served in U.S. Navy ships, it was "relative bearing grease" that newcomers were sent to fetch. Getting back to old tools and left-hand screws in particular, I "sorta collect" (TM Todd Hughes) edge tools from Charles Taylor's Sheffield Tools Ltd. Said tools are often stamped with the trade name, "Screw Brand" and the image of a wood screw. A left-hand wood screw. Cheers, Chuck (a.k.a. "Charles") Taylor north of Seattle USA |
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271411 | gtgrouch@r... | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
We used to sent newbies off to get a board stretcher. When someone new asked you for one, the reply was that you just lent yours to so-and-so, who just happened to be as far away as you could indicate. Good times! Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA -----------------------------------------From: "Chuck Taylor via OldTools" To: "Mick Dowling" Cc: "Listserv Oldtools" Sent: Sunday July 5 2020 1:13:55PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hand forged auger bit, how old? Gentle Galoots, Mick wrote: > "A box a left-handed wood screws please”. When I served in U.S. Navy ships, it was "relative bearing grease" that newcomers were sent to fetch. Getting back to old tools and left-hand screws in particular, I "sorta collect" (TM Todd Hughes) edge tools from Charles Taylor's Sheffield Tools Ltd. Said tools are often stamped with the trade name, "Screw Brand" and the image of a wood screw. A left-hand wood screw. Cheers, Chuck (a.k.a. "Charles") Taylor north of Seattle USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. To change your subscription options: OldTools archive: |
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271414 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Followed by: Won't work because the board will be too thin. someone go get the board fluffer. Actually happened in a college set building class. Mike in Woodland |
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271415 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
"A box of abrasive blue electro sparks for saw sharpening please” Mick Dowling Once was apprenticed. |
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271416 | Mike Lynd | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
As an 18 year old in a summer job, I was sent to the stores to ask for sky hooks for a ladder. Still makes me wince! On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 22:43, Mick Dowling |
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271417 | "kevin.m.foley" <kevin.m.foley@c...> | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
While a rookie in the FD I was sent in search for a can of friction loss for the pump. I knew it existed because I heard the pump operators talking about it all the time. Kevin Foley Smarter now. Or not. |
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271418 | gtgrouch@r... | 2020‑07‑05 | Re: Hand forged auger bit, how old? |
Wow - I never even heard of a board fluffer. It sounds useful. I'll go out and buy one! Just proves I'm not too old to learn. Tongue firmly in cheek, Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA -----------------------------------------From: "Michael Blair" To: gtgrouch@r... Cc: "Chuck Taylor", "Listserv Oldtools" Sent: Sunday July 5 2020 3:47:31PM Subject: Re: [OldTools] Hand forged auger bit, how old? Followed by: Won't work because the board will be too thin. someone go get the board fluffer. Actually happened in a college set building class. Mike in Woodland On 2020-07-05 11:32, gtgrouch@r... wrote: We used to sent newbies off to get a board stretcher. When someone new asked you for one, the reply was that you just lent yours to so-and-so, who just happened to be as far away as you could indicate. Good times! Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA |
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