Hi Steve,

Welcome.

> 
> Hi,
> 
> 	My name is Steve York, and I have been lurking for a while, and I 
> thought that I should introduce myself. I am a novice woodworker, finding
> out how I want to go about woodworking. I started out by reading rec.norm,
> and went and took a night class in woodworking offered by my local adult
> education system. 
> 
> 	I found that:
> 
> 	a) most people in this class use only power tools,
> 	b) my ears are offended by these big monstrous machines.
> 
> I talked to at least 3 amatuer woodworkers who work at my company, and they 
> told me I would not be able to build anything decent without t*bles*ws and
> other electical devices. 

I would be surprised if any of them even own a handsaw.

> Since I am only going to build wooden items as a hobby, I did not see why
> I have to dump all that money into big power tools. After all, people were
> building nice furniture before we all had electicity. 
> 
> My woodworking instructor, after I asked about hand tools, told me he used to
> work solely with hand tools in his younger days. He told me that with
> practice, and patience, I could indeed build nice pieces of furniture without

Sounds like ypur instructor is a smart guy, the key is 'patience and practice'

> all the big machinery. He feels the big power tools are really for
> production work. I was starting to get discouraged until then...  

Right again, big p*w*r t**ls are for production work.

> So here I am, having thrown out my plans for buying power tools and trying
> to figure out what tools to buy and how to use them. I already have a number
> of handsaws and backsaws, brace, and level from my fathers garage. I also

Get the saws sharpened, they are probably dull.

> have a 10$ Sargant jack plane my FIL found for me at a flea market.

The October American Woodworker has an excellent article on tuning old
planes.  I would recommend a smoothing plane (Stanley 3 or 4) and a block
plane.  Buy old ones (they work better).  You can look for them at flea
markets but I would recommend getting at least one from a dealer.  If you
ask them they will set it up for you and sharpen the blade (they might
charge a fee).  I would recommend you do this at least once so that you
know what a properly tuned plane is like.

> I bought Leonard Lee's book on sharpening, and sharpened several chisels
> and my plane blade. Now I am trying to learn how to use the plane. I suspect
> it will take me quite a while, but it is much more pleasant to use than
> a big power planer. Do people really like 'Restoring, Tuning amd Using
> Classis Woodworking Tools" by Michael Dunbar, and 'Hand Tools, their ways 
> and workings" by Aldren A. Watson? They seem like they might be good places 
> to start. 

So far, you've made good choices.  I would recommend you add "Tage Frid Teaches
Woodworking" (ISBN 1-56158-068-6) to your list. 
> I also picked up the "Workbench Book" by Scott Landis. I am trying to
> modify a 30 year old garage wall bench for woodworking. It
> is very solidly made, but the top is 2X8 Doug Fir, and I think is not
> thick enough. Also, it has knots in it, so it might be hard to flatten
> with a jointer plane. But I could remove the top and replace it with a 
> maple top I make myself. The supports are very solid 4 X 6 beams.

If you have the space, make a new one from scratch.  It'll give you a good
opertunity to practice some joinery, and you can always use a second bench.

> 
> Thanks to Patrick Leach and Erv Shaffer for kindly answering dumb questions 
> about planes and handsaws.
> 
> See ya!
> 
> 	Steve York

Jake Spiller
spiller@b...

I'm just a user.  I don't have time to collect.

--
*******************************************************************************
Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or
agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account
activity contained in this communication.
*******************************************************************************

Hi,

	My name is Steve York, and I have been lurking for a while, and I 
thought that I should introduce myself. I am a novice woodworker, finding
out how I want to go about woodworking. I started out by reading rec.norm,
and went and took a night class in woodworking offered by my local adult
education system. 

	I found that:

	a) most people in this class use only power tools,
	b) my ears are offended by these big monstrous machines.

I talked to at least 3 amatuer woodworkers who work at my company, and they 
told me I would not be able to build anything decent without t*bles*ws and
other electical devices. 

Since I am only going to build wooden items as a hobby, I did not see why
I have to dump all that money into big power tools. After all, people were
building nice furniture before we all had electicity. 

My woodworking instructor, after I asked about hand tools, told me he used to
work solely with hand tools in his younger days. He told me that with
practice, and patience, I could indeed build nice pieces of furniture without
all the big machinery. He feels the big power tools are really for
production work. I was starting to get discouraged until then...  

So here I am, having thrown out my plans for buying power tools and trying
to figure out what tools to buy and how to use them. I already have a number
of handsaws and backsaws, brace, and level from my fathers garage. I also
have a 10$ Sargant jack plane my FIL found for me at a flea market.
 
I bought Leonard Lee's book on sharpening, and sharpened several chisels
and my plane blade. Now I am trying to learn how to use the plane. I suspect
it will take me quite a while, but it is much more pleasant to use than
a big power planer. Do people really like 'Restoring, Tuning amd Using
Classis Woodworking Tools" by Michael Dunbar, and 'Hand Tools, their ways 
and workings" by Aldren A. Watson? They seem like they might be good places 
to start. 

I also picked up the "Workbench Book" by Scott Landis. I am trying to
modify a 30 year old garage wall bench for woodworking. It
is very solidly made, but the top is 2X8 Doug Fir, and I think is not
thick enough. Also, it has knots in it, so it might be hard to flatten
with a jointer plane. But I could remove the top and replace it with a 
maple top I make myself. The supports are very solid 4 X 6 beams.

Thanks to Patrick Leach and Erv Shaffer for kindly answering dumb questions 
about planes and handsaws.

See ya!

	Steve York

At 03:31 PM 8/4/97 -0700, Stephen York wrote:
>Hi,
>
>	My name is Steve York, and I have been lurking for a while, and I 

Welcome aboard.

>a big power planer. Do people really like 'Restoring, Tuning amd Using
>Classis Woodworking Tools" by Michael Dunbar, and 'Hand Tools, their ways 
>and workings" by Aldren A. Watson? They seem like they might be good places 
>to start. 
>

Both of those are good books to start with.  Also, I'd recommend all of Roy
Underhill's books.

>I also picked up the "Workbench Book" by Scott Landis. I am trying to
>modify a 30 year old garage wall bench for woodworking. It
>is very solidly made, but the top is 2X8 Doug Fir, and I think is not
>thick enough. Also, it has knots in it, so it might be hard to flatten
>with a jointer plane. But I could remove the top and replace it with a 
>maple top I make myself. The supports are very solid 4 X 6 beams.
>
What you might want to do, depending on your space allocation, is to keep
that bench for sharpening, finishing, gluing, and all of the other less
than glorious tasks that muck up a workbench top.  Make a nice free
standing bench for planing.  

One can never have enough workspace...........

Tony

___________________________________________________________________
                        Wood keeps growing while iron always rusts!
___________________________________________________________________

Steve york:
> 	My name is Steve York, and I have been lurking for a while, and I 
> thought that I should introduce myself. I am a novice woodworker, finding

Welcome from another newbie. I've been around old tools all my life,
but really only started using them myself this year. Quite a few of my
older relatives were woodworkers of a traditional sort.

> 	b) my ears are offended by these big monstrous machines.

The dust, even with a noisy icky p*w*r device collecting it, bothers
my athsma.

> 
> I talked to at least 3 amatuer woodworkers who work at my company, and they 
> told me I would not be able to build anything decent without t*bles*ws and
> other electical devices. 

I was at a local home-improvement sort of place with a friend last
week. He mentioned that he was going to get into woodworking and was
looking at, among other monstrosities, a p*w*r pl*n*r. It was rather
expensive, and I offered to show him how to use hand planes. He said,
rather condescendingly, "well, *I* plan to use hardwoods, so that
would be impossible".

Then a salesmen from the church of Norm showed up to reinforce this.

I did learn that the salesman wasn't aware that edged tools needed to
be sharpened. Ever. I was afraid to laugh, I'm not sure that those
Normites don't burn disbelievers. They get rid of them somehow...

> work solely with hand tools in his younger days. He told me that with
> practice, and patience, I could indeed build nice pieces of furniture without

I find the practice to be as much fun as the real work. I've been
practicing mortices, tenons, and rabbets (with a wooden rabbet plane
(skewed)) for a week or so (not full time, c'mon!) in preparation for a
project I'm starting. I'm having a great time, and have made lots of
really cool shavings. SWMBO has started to use them for garden mulch
(should be OK, all pine and oak).

I'm actually starting to get happy with the results.

> I also picked up the "Workbench Book" by Scott Landis. I am trying to
> modify a 30 year old garage wall bench for woodworking. It
> is very solidly made, but the top is 2X8 Doug Fir, and I think is not
> thick enough. Also, it has knots in it, so it might be hard to flatten
> with a jointer plane. But I could remove the top and replace it with a 
> maple top I make myself. The supports are very solid 4 X 6 beams.

I'm using a 3' x 8' plywood topped bench I built about five years ago
for general household repairs. It's "OK" now that I've added a leg
vise (first project, I'll make some improvements on the next, but it
works well). Still, it's too light, and too flexy (despite feeling
solid as a rock under my near 300lb weight). It also lacks a tail vise
and bench dog, which I really want. I think another bench will be
started soon. I think it will be in addition to this bench, not
instead of it. I will have to make some room, but I think it will be
worth it.

I'm reading the Landis Workbench book right now BTW. Lots of good
ideas.

Jim Buchanan        c22jrb@d...      jbuchana@e...
================== http://www.earthcorp.com/jbuchana =====================
"Is it true, Sen. Bedfellow, that your wife rides with bikers?" -Milo Bloom
==========================================================================

> Geologists, BTW, also use an
> eclectic set of tools.
> 

So, what kind of edge can you get on a chisel
using a thin section lap? Transparently Sharp?

B^) B^)

> Date:          Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:23:47 -0500
> Reply-to:      jaf@M...
> From:          James Foster jaf@M...
> To:            catamount@t...
> Cc:            oldtools@l...
> Subject:       Re: Bio

> > Geologists, BTW, also use an
> > eclectic set of tools.
> > 
> 
> So, what kind of edge can you get on a chisel
> using a thin section lap? Transparently Sharp?
> 
>  B^) B^)
Ok now, be gneiss.   Just don't be the one who uses the wrong grit on 
the lapping plate.  (You can ask, it wasn't me but it wasn't pretty) 

James Foster wrote:
> 
> > > Geologists, BTW, also use an
> > > eclectic set of tools.
> > > 
> > 
> > So, what kind of edge can you get on a chisel
> > using a thin section lap? Transparently Sharp?
> > 
> > B^) B^)
> Ok now, be gneiss. Just don't be the one who uses the wrong grit on 
> the lapping plate. (You can ask, it wasn't me but it wasn't pretty) 

gneiss?

Jake Spiller
spiller@b...

I'm just a user. I don't have time to collect.

--
*******************************************************************************
Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or
agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account
activity contained in this communication.
*******************************************************************************

> gneiss?
> 
>
Type of rock- obscure geologist joke. Pronounced nice. Sorry, 
thought by by earlier message that both of you were geologists from 
the message I read.

David 

On  6 Aug 97 at 21:24, kirtley@s... wrote:

> 
> > gneiss?
> > 
> >
> Type of rock- obscure geologist joke.  Pronounced nice.  Sorry, 
> thought by by earlier message that both of you were geologists from 
> the message I read.

Hey, it can't be THAT obscure. I got it and I'm not a geologist and 
wasn't really paying attention to the thread.

Maybe taking Geology in University 10 yrs ago helped :)

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell
recsmgmt@t...
My opinions, no one elses!!
Unfortunately common sense isn't all that common.

kirtley@s... wrote:
> 
> > gneiss?
> >
> Type of rock- obscure geologist joke. Pronounced nice. Sorry,
> thought by by earlier message that both of you were geologists from
> the message I read.
> 
> David

I don't mean to be an intrusion, but I got the schist of what you were
saying... I took it for granite that most everybody else wood too.

It's not my fault.

- Bill

(who loves to work as many bad puns as possible out of any situation -
usually long after others have groaned to the point that they're sick of
it.)

> kirtley@s... wrote:
> > 
> > > gneiss?
> > >
> > Type of rock- obscure geologist joke. Pronounced nice. Sorry,
> > thought by by earlier message that both of you were geologists from
> > the message I read.
> > 
> > David
> 
> I don't mean to be an intrusion, but I got the schist of what you were
> saying... I took it for granite that most everybody else wood too.
> 
> It's not my fault.
> 
> - Bill
> 
> (who loves to work as many bad puns as possible out of any situation -
> usually long after others have groaned to the point that they're sick of
> it.)
> 
I feel like such a dip. Well, strike up another one. Still have to 
figure out a way to slip in boudinage.

David

> 
> I don't mean to be an intrusion, but I got the schist of what you were
> saying... I took it for granite that most everybody else wood too.
> 
> It's not my fault.
> 
> - Bill

It may not have been your fault, but you could have avoided the eruption if
you didn't have too much on your plate. I'm not sure that you should ever
have been let loess. Your twisted locutions will mar belletristic efforts
by the rest of us. You certainly are a lava of puns and wordplay.

And I twigged (that one's for Jeff) to your leafing geology for Oldtools
content. It really boled me over.

Bruce

> I don't mean to be an intrusion, but I got the schist of what you were
> saying... I took it for granite that most everybody else wood too.
> 
> It's not my fault.
> 
> - Bill
> 
> (who loves to work as many bad puns as possible out of any situation -
> usually long after others have groaned to the point that they're sick 
> of it.)
> >
> I feel like such a dip. Well, strike up another one. Still have to
> figure out a way to slip in boudinage.
> 
> David

Just be careful not to lock your keys in your karst...

;)

- Bill