Only if you asked in Swahili. My hardware shop carries it by the leather 
cleaning stuff. There is a place near here that sells hay and farm 
supplies - I got the rabies shots for my dogs from the traveling vet 
there - and they sell it in big containers (for saddles??)  For the 
original question - I too have pondered this. I can recognize the 
two-toned dual-grit aluminum oxide, and since I have a few in boxes I 
know what some waterstones look like. But what about those clay-like 
things? And I've got one that looks like a little white brick that I'm 
not even sure is a stone - it's such a course grit. A page with close-up 
pics would be neat.
> Philip
>
>   I'm pretty sure asking for neatsfoot
> oil at the local hardware shop is going to get me blank looks.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I also have accumulated a number of different stones (Which I
rarely if ever use). The only way I know of telling the grit is to try
them on a knife or other tool, look at the resulting scratches, then
compare to the scratches made by a different stone. Shinier is finer.
The grit number will forever remain a mystery.

A short while back I mentioned that while I like WD-40 for the purpose,
I find it ridiculously expensive. Something like on the order of $100 a
gallon if bought in spray cans. I bought a gallon of diesel fuel and
mixed in a very small quantity of oil, and this is now my sharpening
lubricant. It works great, and it costs less than $4 a gallon.

By the way, I clean any stone I sharpen on immediately after use. A
little more diesel and a clean rag and Bob's your uncle.

On Feb 6, 2011, at 12:44 AM, Philip Yarra wrote:

> Hello all,
>> every now and then, I find sharpening stones at garage sales, and
>> they follow me home. Now in two recent purchases, it was easy to tell
>> what sort of stone it is - the two-tone dark-grey colour and
>> extremely regular shape are pretty good indicators that I've got hold
>> of a dual-grit aluminium oxide stone. Also, they were both in boxes
>> that said "Australian Abrasive Company Aluminium Oxide Sharpening
>> Stone". Once they're cleaned with kero and flattened, they seem quite
>> usable. I tend to use WD40 on my oil stones - spray on, sharpen, and
>> wipe clean. I know the classics call for "light oil" but I can't seem
>> to find such a beastie except in over-priced little bottles for
>> lubricating sewing machines. The WD40 tends to float the crud away,
>> which I guess is the major function the oil is supposed to serve. I
>> also did try motor oil cut with kero (can't recall where I read this
>> recommendation) but found it a bit unpleasant to work with. I'm
>> pretty sure asking for neatsfoot oil at the local hardware shop is
>> going to get me blank looks. Anyhow, one stone I acquired recently is
>> a bit different. It's orange, quite wide and short (as compared to
>> the alox stones) and when I tried to clean the muck off it with kero,
>> it basically absorbed it. Same thing if I spray WD40 on it - it's
>> absorbed before I can put blade to stone. The stone also seems rather
>> softer than the alox stones - something that became very obvious
>> during flattening. So: is it possible that I have got hold of a water
>> stone? And: have I destroyed with by exposing it to oil and kero? On
>> a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone is?
>> To a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" by
>> feel, but is there a more scientific way to know? Please assume that
>> I don't have access to a scanning electron microscope! Regards,
>> Philip (very pleased to have put a Stanley #4 1/2 and a Falcon-Pope
>> #5 back in action today - swoosh!)
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have not answer for your question about identifying grits.  I would
imagine that you would need some pretty sophisticated equipment to pull that
one off.  In my opinioin, it does sound that you have found yourself a water
stone.  Hopefully you have not destroyed.  I should think that since oil
will float on water, why not soak the stone in a container of water for a
few days and see if the oily stuff will rise to the top so to speak.  It
seems that I have also read or heard somewhere that you can boil water stone
in order to clean them.  Just some ideas.  I know that for mine, I have
cleaned mine with a mile soap and warm water before and it seemed to do an
effective job of cleaning.  You don't have anything to lose at this point I
suppose.

Doc

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Philip Yarra
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> every now and then, I find sharpening stones at garage sales, and they
> follow me home. Now in two recent purchases, it was easy to tell what sort
> of stone it is - the two-tone dark-grey colour and extremely regular shape
> are pretty good indicators that I've got hold of a dual-grit aluminium oxide
> stone. Also, they were both in boxes that said "Australian Abrasive Company
> Aluminium Oxide Sharpening Stone". Once they're cleaned with kero and
> flattened, they seem quite usable.
>
> I tend to use WD40 on my oil stones - spray on, sharpen, and wipe clean. I
> know the classics call for "light oil" but I can't seem to find such a
> beastie except in over-priced little bottles for lubricating sewing
> machines. The WD40 tends to float the crud away, which I guess is the major
> function the oil is supposed to serve. I also did try motor oil cut with
> kero (can't recall where I read this recommendation) but found it a bit
> unpleasant to work with. I'm pretty sure asking for neatsfoot oil at the
> local hardware shop is going to get me blank looks.
>
> Anyhow, one stone I acquired recently is a bit different. It's orange,
> quite wide and short (as compared to the alox stones) and when I tried to
> clean the muck off it with kero, it basically absorbed it. Same thing if I
> spray WD40 on it - it's absorbed before I can put blade to stone. The stone
> also seems rather softer than the alox stones - something that became very
> obvious during flattening. So: is it possible that I have got hold of a
> water stone? And: have I destroyed with by exposing it to oil and kero?
>
> On a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone is? To
> a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" by feel, but
> is there a more scientific way to know? Please assume that I don't have
> access to a scanning electron microscope!
>
> Regards, Philip (very pleased to have put a Stanley #4 1/2 and a
> Falcon-Pope #5 back in action today - swoosh!)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

-- 
John Holladay
DocHolladay0820@g...
205-229-8484
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are the only differences between True Hard and Black the name and the price?
Joe M.
On 2/6/2011 7:45 AM, Ken Shepard wrote:
> Philip asks about how to determine the "grit" of a stone.  I don't know
> about other materials, but the various grades of Arkansas stones are
> determined by specific gravity. The density standards for Arkansas stones
> are as follows:
>
> Soft Arkansas   2.20-2.30
> Hard Arkansas   2.30-2.45
> True Hard Arkansas  2.50+
> Black Arkansas  2.50+

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philip asks about how to determine the "grit" of a stone.  I don't know
about other materials, but the various grades of Arkansas stones are
determined by specific gravity. The density standards for Arkansas stones
are as follows:

Soft Arkansas   2.20-2.30
Hard Arkansas   2.30-2.45
True Hard Arkansas  2.50+
Black Arkansas  2.50+

So now you want to know how to measure the specific gravity of a stone?
Specific gravity is the ratio of the density of the object to the density of
water.  There are probably better and easier methods than the one I use, but
for what it's worth here is my method.  I place a triple beam balance on the
edge of my work bench, and tape a string to the balance pan and hang the
string over the edge of the workbench.  I tie the stone to the string an
weigh it as it hangs over the edge.  I then get a bucket of water and hang
the stone in water and weight it.  The ratio of the weights is the specific
gravity.  The pedantic among you may want to argue that the ratio of weights
is the "apparent" specific gravity, rather than the actual specific gravity
which is the ratio of density (or mass).  For the purpose of grading
Arkansas stones, it makes no difference.

Ken in TN

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Philip Yarra
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> every now and then, I find sharpening stones at garage sales, and they
> follow me home. Now in two recent purchases, it was easy to tell what sort
> of stone it is - the two-tone dark-grey colour and extremely regular shape
> are pretty good indicators that I've got hold of a dual-grit aluminium oxide
> stone. Also, they were both in boxes that said "Australian Abrasive Company
> Aluminium Oxide Sharpening Stone". Once they're cleaned with kero and
> flattened, they seem quite usable.
>
> I tend to use WD40 on my oil stones - spray on, sharpen, and wipe clean. I
> know the classics call for "light oil" but I can't seem to find such a
> beastie except in over-priced little bottles for lubricating sewing
> machines. The WD40 tends to float the crud away, which I guess is the major
> function the oil is supposed to serve. I also did try motor oil cut with
> kero (can't recall where I read this recommendation) but found it a bit
> unpleasant to work with. I'm pretty sure asking for neatsfoot oil at the
> local hardware shop is going to get me blank looks.
>
> Anyhow, one stone I acquired recently is a bit different. It's orange,
> quite wide and short (as compared to the alox stones) and when I tried to
> clean the muck off it with kero, it basically absorbed it. Same thing if I
> spray WD40 on it - it's absorbed before I can put blade to stone. The stone
> also seems rather softer than the alox stones - something that became very
> obvious during flattening. So: is it possible that I have got hold of a
> water stone? And: have I destroyed with by exposing it to oil and kero?
>
> On a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone is? To
> a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" by feel, but
> is there a more scientific way to know? Please assume that I don't have
> access to a scanning electron microscope!
>
> Regards, Philip (very pleased to have put a Stanley #4 1/2 and a
> Falcon-Pope #5 back in action today - swoosh!)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentle Galoots,

The Old Millwright wrote:

>  I bought a gallon of diesel fuel and mixed in a very small quantity of oil, 
>and this is now my
>  sharpening lubricant. It works great, and it costs less than $4 a gallon.

I too like diesel or kerosene mixed with a little oil for my oilstones. For 
indoor sharpening, however, I find that mineral oil or baby oil makes a good 
substitute. SWMBO doesn't much care for the smell of diesel, and I sometimes 
like to sharpen knives at the kitchen table. Baby oil is just mineral oil with a
 
little scent added, and it's cheaper. If you find that too thick, then thin it 
with some odorless mineral spirits.

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle

      
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Being a natural product, the grading of Arkansas stones is somewhat
subjective especially in the finer grades.  True hard, black hard, and
translucent are all similar in grit.  Actually "grit" is not the proper term
to describe the various Arkansas stones.  They all are made of the mineral
novaculite which is composed of silica crystals.  The grain size of these
crystals is approximately the same regardless of the stone classification.
The denser stones have more crystals per unit volume.  The densest, i.e.
"hardest" are those with a specific gravity of over 2.50.

Variations in price seem to be based more on the relative rarity of the
stone.  Translucent stone is rarer than hard black.  On the other hand, some
swear that the translucent stones produce an edge unmatched by any other
stone and is worth the price premium.  The finest Arkansas stone I use is
called a "Surgical Hard Black" stone.

You will find quite a diversity of opinion on the various grades of Arkansas
stones.

For those interested in further reading, a good jumping off place is the web
site of Dan's Whetstone Company.

www.danswhetstone.com

Go to the "Questions and Info" page.

I have no connection with Dan other than being a satisfied customer.

Ken in TN

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Joe  wrote:

> Are the only differences between True Hard and Black the name and the
> price?
> Joe M.
>
> On 2/6/2011 7:45 AM, Ken Shepard wrote:
>
>> Philip asks about how to determine the "grit" of a stone.  I don't know
>> about other materials, but the various grades of Arkansas stones are
>> determined by specific gravity. The density standards for Arkansas stones
>> are as follows:
>>
>> Soft Arkansas   2.20-2.30
>> Hard Arkansas   2.30-2.45
>> True Hard Arkansas  2.50+
>> Black Arkansas  2.50+
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 good answer Chuck--- =A0 I've been using ATF thinned with kerosene, or
 stove oil, depending on what's lying around, but they both reek out
 loud.=A0Lighter fluid stinks a little less than Marvel Mystery Oil or
 WD40. Odorless mineral spirits.=A0 That's the ticket. Some galoot
 recently published the results of a cool scientific test on Kroil and
 other Liquid Wrench products revealing that a home-brew penetrator
 worked best---anyone remember what that was? I made a note of it, and
 put it in a special place. Always a bad idea---lotta cool stuff stored
 in there, wherever that is. best to all galoots, everywhere---gam =A0

How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing
one cares for none of them!=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 Jane Austen

--- On Sun, 2/6/11, Chuck Taylor  wrote:

> From: Chuck Taylor  Subject: Re: [OldTools] Identifying
> sharpening stones To: "oldtools"  Date: Sunday,
> February 6, 2011, 10:29 AM Gentle Galoots,
>> The Old Millwright wrote:
>>> >=A0 I bought a gallon of diesel fuel and mixed in a
> very small quantity of oil,> >and this is now my
> >=A0 sharpening lubricant. It works great, and it
> costs less than $4 a gallon.
>> I too like diesel or kerosene mixed with a little oil for
> my oilstones. For> indoor sharpening, however, I find that mineral oil
> or baby oil makes a good> substitute. SWMBO doesn't much care for the
> smell of diesel, and I sometimes> like to sharpen knives at the
> kitchen table. Baby oil is just mineral oil with a> little scent
> added, and it's cheaper. If you find that too thick, then thin it>
> with some odorless mineral spirits.
>> Cheers,
> Chuck Taylor north of Seattle
>>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0> -----------------------------------------------------------
-------
>>> ------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>




------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentle Galoots,

Ken Shepard wrote, very helpfully:

=======
Philip asks about how to determine the "grit" of a stone. I don't know
about other materials, but the various grades of Arkansas stones are
determined by specific gravity. The density standards for Arkansas
stones are as follows:

Soft Arkansas 2.20-2.30 Hard Arkansas 2.30-2.45 True Hard Arkansas 2.50+
Black Arkansas 2.50+

So now you want to know how to measure the specific gravity of a stone?
Specific gravity is the ratio of the density of the object to the
density of water.
========
I was inspired to grade my Arkansas stones by determining their specific
gravity. I used a different method. Since the density of water is 1.00
grams per cubic centimeter, then the specific gravity of an oilstone is
simply its density in the same units (g/cm^3) divided by 1. I used a
digital kitchen scale that can be set to measure in grams. (All of this
is at 4 degrees C, which is about the temperature of my shop.) Here is
what I found for 5 stones:

Stone 1: Black Arkansas, 2.67 g/cm^3 Stone 2: Translucent Arkansas, 2.87
g/cm^3 Stone 3: Unknown Arkansas, 2.24 g/cm^3 Stone 4: Unknown Arkansas,
2.17 g/cm^3 Stone 5: Unknown Arkansas, 2.28 g/cm^3

If you had asked me before I took my measurements, I would have told you
that stones 3 & 4 were soft Arkansas and that stone 5 was hard Arkansas.
Now I would say that stone 4 is probably a Washita, stone 3 is a soft
Arkansas, and stone 5 is an "almost hard" Arkansas.

By the way, someone wrote earlier (sorry, I lost track of who it was)
that you can judge hardness by the scratch pattern. I have noticed on
the 3 softer stones that if I press really hard, I get noticeable
scratches and relatively fast action, but if I press down less hard and
move faster, I get a much shinier result.

This has been an interesting exercise. Thanks, Ken, for the information!

Chuck Taylor north of Seattle


------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2/6/2011 2:44 AM, Philip Yarra wrote:


> So is it possible that I have got hold of a water stone? And: have I 
> destroyed with by exposing it to oil and kero?
If anyone addressed the issue of distinguishing between an oilstone and 
a water stone, I missed it.  Is there a way to do so that even I could use?

I like the idea of placing a stone in a water bath to encourage any oil 
to float away.  This made me wonder if it would be useful to boil the 
stone in water, or would that damage the stone?  If a natural stone, one 
would think that boiling in water would do no harm; however, how would 
one know if an unmarked stone were natural or held together by adhesives 
and compression?

While I, too, would recommend against neatsfoot oil for sharpening 
stones, I suggest that any leatherworking supplier, saddlery, or even 
sporting goods stores should be able to supply neatsfoot oil.  The 
prices have gone through the roof since I was a lad buying it to 
condition my baseball gloves, but, "What hasn't?"  I keep neatsfoot oil 
on hand for keeping the leather upholstery on furniture and car seats 
from drying and cracking.  Leather car seats suffer ill treatment from 
summer heat without ventilation and wear much more quickly if not 
treated with neatsfoot oil, IME.  Twice a year would be perfect, but as 
I get older that doesn't always happen.

Great thread.  We don't get enough about sharpening stones here, IMO.

Regards,
Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/02/2011 4:44 PM, Philip Yarra wrote:
> On a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone is?
> To a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" by
> feel, but is there a more scientific way to know? Please assume that I
> don't have access to a scanning electron microscope!

Supurb question Phil. Now that it has been asked, I'm surprised it 
hasn't been asked before (to my knowledge anyways).

Being the hoard... ah the collec... ah well you know, I got a couple or 
two in the shed, and I've always thought the same question but never 
uttered it.

I await halucina... ah erudatio... I'm waiting for the answer from one 
of our learned's.

PeterH in Perth
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all,

every now and then, I find sharpening stones at garage sales, and they 
follow me home. Now in two recent purchases, it was easy to tell what 
sort of stone it is - the two-tone dark-grey colour and extremely 
regular shape are pretty good indicators that I've got hold of a 
dual-grit aluminium oxide stone. Also, they were both in boxes that said 
"Australian Abrasive Company Aluminium Oxide Sharpening Stone". Once 
they're cleaned with kero and flattened, they seem quite usable.

I tend to use WD40 on my oil stones - spray on, sharpen, and wipe clean. 
I know the classics call for "light oil" but I can't seem to find such a 
beastie except in over-priced little bottles for lubricating sewing 
machines. The WD40 tends to float the crud away, which I guess is the 
major function the oil is supposed to serve. I also did try motor oil 
cut with kero (can't recall where I read this recommendation) but found 
it a bit unpleasant to work with. I'm pretty sure asking for neatsfoot 
oil at the local hardware shop is going to get me blank looks.

Anyhow, one stone I acquired recently is a bit different. It's orange, 
quite wide and short (as compared to the alox stones) and when I tried 
to clean the muck off it with kero, it basically absorbed it. Same thing 
if I spray WD40 on it - it's absorbed before I can put blade to stone. 
The stone also seems rather softer than the alox stones - something that 
became very obvious during flattening. So: is it possible that I have 
got hold of a water stone? And: have I destroyed with by exposing it to 
oil and kero?

On a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone is? 
To a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" by 
feel, but is there a more scientific way to know? Please assume that I 
don't have access to a scanning electron microscope!

Regards, Philip (very pleased to have put a Stanley #4 1/2 and a 
Falcon-Pope #5 back in action today - swoosh!)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philip

Do not use Neatsfoot on oil stones - will clog them up. WD40 is mainly kero,
however Lamp Oil is recommended by experienced users - kero with a better
smell.

There is a book on natural oilstones jointly published by TTTG and TATHS,
see http://www.taths.org.uk/publications.htm; TTTG is currently out of
print, although another short print run is being considered; a number of
HTPAA members have copies if you go to their meetings. TATHS I understand
has plenty of copies.

Cheers
Peter Evans
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Yarra
Sent: Sunday, 6 February 2011 7:45 PM

I tend to use WD40 on my oil stones - spray on, sharpen, and wipe clean. 
I know the classics call for "light oil" but I can't seem to find such a 
beastie except in over-priced little bottles for lubricating sewing 
machines. The WD40 tends to float the crud away, which I guess is the 
major function the oil is supposed to serve. I also did try motor oil 
cut with kero (can't recall where I read this recommendation) but found 
it a bit unpleasant to work with. I'm pretty sure asking for neatsfoot 
oil at the local hardware shop is going to get me blank looks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This brings a question to mind for me.  Obviously, one disadvantage of water
as a honing lubricant is that you must be very careful to properly dry the
tool after honing or it will rust.  One advantage is, water will completely
evaporate and therefore will not interfere with a finish to be applied to
the wood later.  Some oils can be used that will help prevent the tool from
rusting if a residue is left on the tool, but might possibly be a detriment
to a finish to be applied to wood later.  What could one use as a honing
fluid that would 1) help prevent the tool from rusting and 2) not interfere
with any finish on wood to be used later?  I am intriqued by the idea of
liquid parafin.  Where would one find such substance?

Doc

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Jeff Gorman  wrote:

>
>
> ::  -----Original Message-----
> ::  From: oldtools-bounces@r...
> ::  [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Chuck
> ::  Taylor
> ::  Sent: 06 February 2011 18:30
> ::  To: oldtools
> ::  Subject: Re: [OldTools] Identifying sharpening stones
> ::
> ::  SWMBO doesn't much care for the smell of diesel,
> ::  and I sometimes
> ::  like to sharpen knives at the kitchen table. Baby oil is just
> ::  mineral oil with a
> ::  little scent added,
>
> Although not overwhelmed by the result, I once tried the following:
>
> 'The stone is wetted and rubbed with soap and more water is applied until a
> lather forms. This is allowed to dry, and when the stone is required for
> use
> it is merely necessary to wet it slightly. ...'
>
> An opportunity to pervade our shops with Chanel No 5?
>
> This is from a list of possible honing fluids I made some years ago at
> http://tinyurl.com/62mwne5, to which I must add the diesel fluid that
> several folk seem to like.
>
> Any more to add please?
>
> Jeff
> --
> Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
> http://www.amgron.clara.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

-- 
John Holladay
DocHolladay0820@g...
205-229-8484
------------------------------------------------------------------------

::  -----Original Message-----
::  From: oldtools-bounces@r...
::  [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Chuck
::  Taylor
::  Sent: 06 February 2011 18:30
::  To: oldtools
::  Subject: Re: [OldTools] Identifying sharpening stones
::
::  SWMBO doesn't much care for the smell of diesel,
::  and I sometimes
::  like to sharpen knives at the kitchen table. Baby oil is just
::  mineral oil with a
::  little scent added,

Although not overwhelmed by the result, I once tried the following:

'The stone is wetted and rubbed with soap and more water is applied until a
lather forms. This is allowed to dry, and when the stone is required for use
it is merely necessary to wet it slightly. ...'

An opportunity to pervade our shops with Chanel No 5?

This is from a list of possible honing fluids I made some years ago at
http://tinyurl.com/62mwne5, to which I must add the diesel fluid that
several folk seem to like.

Any more to add please?

Jeff
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
http://www.amgron.clara.net

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Philip Yarra writes:

Now in two recent purchases, it was easy to tell what
> sort of stone it is - the two-tone dark-grey colour and extremely 
> regular shape are pretty good indicators that I've got hold of a 
> dual-grit aluminium oxide stone. Also, they were both in boxes that 
> said "Australian Abrasive Company Aluminium Oxide Sharpening Stone". 
> Once they're cleaned with kero and flattened, they seem quite usable.

and

> Anyhow, one stone I acquired recently is a bit different. It's orange, 
> quite wide and short (as compared to the alox stones) and when I tried 
> to clean the muck off it with kero, it basically absorbed it. Same 
> thing if I spray WD40 on it - it's absorbed before I can put blade to 
> stone. The stone also seems rather softer than the alox stones - 
> something that became very obvious during flattening. So: is it 
> possible that I have got hold of a water stone? And: have I destroyed 
> with by exposing it to oil and kero?

and

> On a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone 
> is? To a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" 
> by feel, but is there a more scientific way to know? Please assume 
> that I don't have access to a scanning electron microscope!

Silicon-carbide combination stones come as two-tone stones in grey 
whilst aluminium-oxide (India) combination stones are found by me to 
have a new-rust, red colour on the finer side and a grey colour on the 
coarser.  India stones, being finer cutting, preserve their shape, 
whilst silicon-carbide stones are worn out of shape relatively easily. 
I am a little surprised that you found aluminium-oxide stones in need of 
flattening and did not mention that it was a very difficult job to 
accomplish because such stones usually take many years of fairly 
constant use to go out of shape and are the very Devil to flatten, even 
with the most aggressively cutting silver sand which one can procure.

However, that said, I have not knowingly ever encountered an 
aluminium-oxide stone made by the Australian Abrasive Company and, 
perhaps, they differ from the general run of those stones as I know 
them.  It could be a case of the wrong stones in the particular boxes 
and this could be somewhat likely if the boxes are wooden bench-boxes 
but, if they are cardboard boxes, one would wonder that anyone thought 
it worthwhile to accommodate silicon-carbide stones in them although 
preserving the stones from knocks and bumps could have been a motive in 
that regard.

It is London to a brick that your orange stone is a Makita water-stone. 
They used to be sold with early Makita portable power-planers but, 
because they cut so slowly, they usually saw little service in 
sharpening planer-blades and were discarded in favour of stones which 
cut more aggressively.  Most tradesmen would touch up the blades on a 
grinder and leave things at that, relying on belt sanders and orbital 
sanders to cover the planer's marks and provide an acceptable and quick 
finish to shop-fittings, built-in kitchens and the like.

No need to worry about having oiled it up.  Put it on a couple of wires 
in an old saucepan of water on the stove, keep the water moderately hot 
for half an hour (no need to boil) and the oil should float out of the 
stone.  Hold the stone with a stick on the bottom of the saucepan as you 
pour off the oil and water so as not to re-contaminate your stone.  Let 
it cool and then rest it in clean water for 20 minutes and it should be 
ready to go.  It is a useful enough stone for getting a good final edge 
and does not appear to wear as quickly as some other, very expensive, 
water-stones although it wears a lot more quickly than silicon-carbide, 
India or Arkansas stones.  Give it a soak for 20 minutes each time 
before use but otherwise store it out of water.

The look of a stone can be a bit deceptive.  Some old sandstone grinding 
wheels look quite coarse yet impart a very high polish to the tools 
ground by them. The coarse side of a combination India stone looks 
coarser than the coarse side of a silicon-carbide stone yet the former 
cuts less aggressively.  Best bet is simply to rub the bevel of a chisel 
on the stones to detect which ones impart the brighter finish.  This 
will not furnish a grit-count, but will inform as to the relativity 
between your stones.  Feeling is probably O.K. for ranking stones but it 
does not inform as to what finish to expect from any particular stone. 
The brighter the finish, the slower-cutting is the stone.

Regards from Brisbane,

John Manners 

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Jeff Gorman wrote:

> Although not overwhelmed by the result, I once tried the following:
>
> 'The stone is wetted and rubbed with soap and more water is applied 
> until a
> lather forms. This is allowed to dry, and when the stone is required 
> for use
> it is merely necessary to wet it slightly. ...'

> Any more to add please?

Barbers lather soap on the stone, whether a razor stone or a modern, 
silicon-carbide bench stone, with a wet shaving brush in order to 
restore their razors' edges.

Cooks use liquid dishwashing detergent, mixed with a little water, 
sometimes lathered with a pastry brush, on silicon-carbide stones to 
restore the edges of their kitchen knives.

The lather is designed to float off the steel particles and, to judge by 
the clean appearances of the stones, works quite well in that regard.

In each case there is a follow-up, either with the barber's strop or the 
cook's steel.

I use kerosene, mixed with a little motor oil, to stone my tools.

Regards from Brisbane,

John Manners 

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Hi, Phillip,

I know I'm a bit late to this feast, but:

I have one Western razor hone, a soft double-sided one that is very much like a 
Japanese waterstone, that I acquired in the 1960s and used for years with oil. A
 few years ago I started using it with water instead, without boiling or anythin
g, and it works just fine. So give your stone a try just with water; there's not
hing to lose. And I have a translucent white arkansas stone, an old one, that I 
found weeping oil on a hot day at the flea market; it was unusable, but when I g
ot it home I boiled it for an hour or two with a rag in the pot under the stone 
to keep it from touching metal and overheating. It took the oil out just fine, t
hough there is now a network of fine crazed lines that I can see but can't feel.
 So if you must, try boiling; again, you have nothing to lose.

The "grit" of an unmarked or random stone is a tricky matter. Using any one grit
 as standard: you will get deeper scratches if the grit is larger, or if the min
eral is harder, or if the stone geometry has sharper points, or if the bond is l
ooser, and I am sure I am forgetting some factors. And different sharpening syst
ems and traditions differ in all these variables. So direct comparison of stones
 in one tradition with those in another can't be done just on the basis of grit 
size. The best way to find out is to sharpen for a while, and then to compare sc
ratch size (important! On the same steel!). With enough experience you can feel 
the difference between the surfaces left by the coarse and the fine stones. So w
ork out the sequence of coarseness pragmatically. This is the only way to do it 
when mixing unknown hones, and even with decades of experience I find myself get
ting the order wrong.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley

 Philip Yarra wrote: "...is it possible that I have got hold of a water stone? A
nd: have I destroyed with by exposing it to oil and kero?
On a side note: is it possible to know what "grit" an unmarked stone is?
To a certain degree, I can say "this one is finer than that one" by
feel, but is there a more scientific way to know?

 
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