Gentle Galoots,

It has been a very long time since I've posted anything, but a pair of
disparate events prompts me to write. First, I was out riding my bike
yesterday, carefully minding my own business, when suddenly I heard
another cyclist overtaking me; that cyclist being none other than
ListMom Chris Swingley. We had a pleasant chat before going our
separate ways, and as I rode on I mused a bit on OldTools, and
regretted that I had plumb forgotten to thank Chris for keeping us all
on the One True Path.

Which is probably why I spontaneously pulled over at the yard sale
this morning; something I hadn't done in some time. And surely Chris
had provided me with some OldTools karma, because in addition to the
usual filthy mechanic's tools, rusty plastic-handled saws and
nondescript chisels either covered with rust or protected from same by
housepaint, a few small delights presented themselves to me.

Oh, it was no great haul, to be sure; those of us in the Far North
have long since given up hope of finding a lode that would impress our
southern brethern, blessed as they are with hotdog-handled Number
Nines to be found under every casually overturned stone of sufficient
size to conceal the timid subject.

Nevertheless,  I was pleased to come away with a 6" sweep Miller's
Falls 1324 brace (which with a 12-12-11 patent date certainly does not
date from the present century), a half-inch E. A. Berg chisel with an
intact decal on the handle, a decent cast-iron hand vise, yet another
patented adjustable auger bit, an Indestro quarter-inch three-jaw
chuck that fits a brace and unfortunately is missing some springs,
and, finally, perhaps the most interesting piece of the lot, a small
compass.

The compass (or perhaps "dividers" would be the preferred
nomenclature) have 5" legs that were probably longer in their youth.
When I picked them up, I saw no marks, but they seemed old, because of
their obvious hand forging, with somewhat irregular construction, and
small but subtly decorative chamfers.

A little careful cleaning at home revealed a small, stamped "Hilger &
Son". The ubiquitous search engine provides a few, but not many,
clues, including a link to another larger compass by the same company:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Set-of-Hilger-Son-Leather-Saddlers-Compass_W0QQitemZ
250449281809

I was amused by the identification as a saddler's compass; another of
the search engine links refers to a gunmaker's saw. Clearly Hilger and
his offspring catered to a specialist clientele!

Searching the Oldtools archive yields a number of bits and pieces for
sale, made variously by Hilger, Hilger & Sons, and Hilger and Sohne,
Germany.

Bob Nelson (may he RIP) posted most informatively at
http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=85277, and indeed,
"bits, braces, dies, dividers, and hacksaws" seem to be the extent of
Hilger's offerings.

Does anyone on the Porch care to share a bit more? Was this a German
firm, or American? Has anything more come to light since Bob compiled
the DAT?

Cheerfully yours,

  Eric B. in Fairbanks, Alaska, where ten bucks seemed a fair price for the lot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:53 PM, Eric Breitenberger wrote: (SNIP)

> Gentle Galoots,
>> It has been a very long time since I've posted anything, but a
>> pair of
> disparate events prompts me to write. First, I was out riding my bike
> yesterday, carefully minding my own business, when suddenly I heard
> another cyclist overtaking me; that cyclist being none other than
> ListMom Chris Swingley. We had a pleasant chat before going our
> separate ways, and as I rode on I mused a bit on OldTools, and
> regretted that I had plumb forgotten to thank Chris for keeping us all
> on the One True Path.

Hey, Eric! We have missed you here on the porch. Welcome back. Please
don't wait another 5 years before you post again. :>)

 I have often wondered if you had become a hermit like Dick
 Proenicke. (sp?)

Jim Thompson, the old Millrat in Riverside, CA.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric,

I can't add any info to the background of Hilger & Sons, but I can expand on
what they made.  I've got a nice hand vise marked Hilger & Sons.

http://tinyurl.com/2467kop

http://tinyurl.com/2atcry7

Bruce Lambert
Leominster, MA

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.  - New England proverb

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Eric
Breitenberger
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:54 AM
To: oldtools@r...
Subject: [OldTools] Hilger & Son - anyone know of this manufacturer?

Gentle Galoots,

It has been a very long time since I've posted anything, but a pair of
disparate events prompts me to write. First, I was out riding my bike
yesterday, carefully minding my own business, when suddenly I heard
another cyclist overtaking me; that cyclist being none other than
ListMom Chris Swingley. We had a pleasant chat before going our
separate ways, and as I rode on I mused a bit on OldTools, and
regretted that I had plumb forgotten to thank Chris for keeping us all
on the One True Path.

Which is probably why I spontaneously pulled over at the yard sale
this morning; something I hadn't done in some time. And surely Chris
had provided me with some OldTools karma, because in addition to the
usual filthy mechanic's tools, rusty plastic-handled saws and
nondescript chisels either covered with rust or protected from same by
housepaint, a few small delights presented themselves to me.

Oh, it was no great haul, to be sure; those of us in the Far North
have long since given up hope of finding a lode that would impress our
southern brethern, blessed as they are with hotdog-handled Number
Nines to be found under every casually overturned stone of sufficient
size to conceal the timid subject.

Nevertheless,  I was pleased to come away with a 6" sweep Miller's
Falls 1324 brace (which with a 12-12-11 patent date certainly does not
date from the present century), a half-inch E. A. Berg chisel with an
intact decal on the handle, a decent cast-iron hand vise, yet another
patented adjustable auger bit, an Indestro quarter-inch three-jaw
chuck that fits a brace and unfortunately is missing some springs,
and, finally, perhaps the most interesting piece of the lot, a small
compass.

The compass (or perhaps "dividers" would be the preferred
nomenclature) have 5" legs that were probably longer in their youth.
When I picked them up, I saw no marks, but they seemed old, because of
their obvious hand forging, with somewhat irregular construction, and
small but subtly decorative chamfers.

A little careful cleaning at home revealed a small, stamped "Hilger &
Son". The ubiquitous search engine provides a few, but not many,
clues, including a link to another larger compass by the same company:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Set-of-Hilger-Son-Leather-Saddlers-Compass_W0QQi
temZ250449281809

I was amused by the identification as a saddler's compass; another of
the search engine links refers to a gunmaker's saw. Clearly Hilger and
his offspring catered to a specialist clientele!

Searching the Oldtools archive yields a number of bits and pieces for
sale, made variously by Hilger, Hilger & Sons, and Hilger and Sohne,
Germany.

Bob Nelson (may he RIP) posted most informatively at
http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=85277, and indeed,
"bits, braces, dies, dividers, and hacksaws" seem to be the extent of
Hilger's offerings.

Does anyone on the Porch care to share a bit more? Was this a German
firm, or American? Has anything more come to light since Bob compiled
the DAT?

Cheerfully yours,

  Eric B. in Fairbanks, Alaska, where ten bucks seemed a fair price for the
lot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce:

That is certainly a lovely hand vise! The photos definitely piqued my
interest, as I suddenly wondered if the hand vise I acquired in the
same lot as the Hilger dividers could be a Hilger product as well.

Alas I cannot find any markings, although my vise appears similar in
some ways to yours and could well be a relative. Mine has no handle,
and is of slighly less refined appearance.

The Hilger stamp on my dividers is the same as on your hand vise,
although much weaker, so that the final "s" is not visible at all.

Many thanks,

  Eric

On 6/5/10, Bruce Lambert  wrote:
> Eric,
>
> I can't add any info to the background of Hilger & Sons, but I can expand on
> what they made.  I've got a nice hand vise marked Hilger & Sons.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2467kop
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2atcry7
>
>
> Bruce Lambert
> Leominster, MA
>
> Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.  - New England proverb
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldtools-bounces@r...
> [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Eric
> Breitenberger
> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:54 AM
> To: oldtools@r...
> Subject: [OldTools] Hilger & Son - anyone know of this manufacturer?
>
> Gentle Galoots,
>
> It has been a very long time since I've posted anything, but a pair of
> disparate events prompts me to write. First, I was out riding my bike
> yesterday, carefully minding my own business, when suddenly I heard
> another cyclist overtaking me; that cyclist being none other than
> ListMom Chris Swingley. We had a pleasant chat before going our
> separate ways, and as I rode on I mused a bit on OldTools, and
> regretted that I had plumb forgotten to thank Chris for keeping us all
> on the One True Path.
>
> Which is probably why I spontaneously pulled over at the yard sale
> this morning; something I hadn't done in some time. And surely Chris
> had provided me with some OldTools karma, because in addition to the
> usual filthy mechanic's tools, rusty plastic-handled saws and
> nondescript chisels either covered with rust or protected from same by
> housepaint, a few small delights presented themselves to me.
>
> Oh, it was no great haul, to be sure; those of us in the Far North
> have long since given up hope of finding a lode that would impress our
> southern brethern, blessed as they are with hotdog-handled Number
> Nines to be found under every casually overturned stone of sufficient
> size to conceal the timid subject.
>
> Nevertheless,  I was pleased to come away with a 6" sweep Miller's
> Falls 1324 brace (which with a 12-12-11 patent date certainly does not
> date from the present century), a half-inch E. A. Berg chisel with an
> intact decal on the handle, a decent cast-iron hand vise, yet another
> patented adjustable auger bit, an Indestro quarter-inch three-jaw
> chuck that fits a brace and unfortunately is missing some springs,
> and, finally, perhaps the most interesting piece of the lot, a small
> compass.
>
> The compass (or perhaps "dividers" would be the preferred
> nomenclature) have 5" legs that were probably longer in their youth.
> When I picked them up, I saw no marks, but they seemed old, because of
> their obvious hand forging, with somewhat irregular construction, and
> small but subtly decorative chamfers.
>
> A little careful cleaning at home revealed a small, stamped "Hilger &
> Son". The ubiquitous search engine provides a few, but not many,
> clues, including a link to another larger compass by the same company:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Set-of-Hilger-Son-Leather-Saddlers-Compass_W0QQi
> temZ250449281809
>
> I was amused by the identification as a saddler's compass; another of
> the search engine links refers to a gunmaker's saw. Clearly Hilger and
> his offspring catered to a specialist clientele!
>
> Searching the Oldtools archive yields a number of bits and pieces for
> sale, made variously by Hilger, Hilger & Sons, and Hilger and Sohne,
> Germany.
>
> Bob Nelson (may he RIP) posted most informatively at
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=85277, and indeed,
> "bits, braces, dies, dividers, and hacksaws" seem to be the extent of
> Hilger's offerings.
>
> Does anyone on the Porch care to share a bit more? Was this a German
> firm, or American? Has anything more come to light since Bob compiled
> the DAT?
>
> Cheerfully yours,
>
>   Eric B. in Fairbanks, Alaska, where ten bucks seemed a fair price for the
> lot.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter, thank you for that link!

That link indicates that the Hilger concern was still making saws in
Remscheid as late as 1960.

Following the Remscheid connection, I've found several references to
Hilger and Sons in German publications from the mid-1800s. They go
back even further, though. It appears that a Rococo structure in
Remscheid called the Haus Cleff was built in 1778 by the Hilger
brothers, who are described as merchants and manufacturers of tools.

Remscheid appears to have been a tool manufacturing center of some
reknown, and apparently hosts the "Deutsches Werkzeugmuseum", or
German Tool Museum. They boast free admission!

So details are still sparse, but it appears that the Hilgers were in
the tool business for the better part of two centuries.

Eric B., in Fairbanks, Alaska, wondering of the tales those dividers
could tell ...

On 6/5/10, Peter Robinson  wrote:
> Hi Eric, a quick search of Wolfgang's site lists the following that
> mentions Hilbert:
>
> Hilger, Walter, Remscheid-Ha.,
> Oberh=F6lterfelder Strasse 12
>
> http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/handsaegen_wlw1960.phtml
>
> It might be worth having a chat with Wolfgang to see whether he has
> anything further. He's the guru of German tool makers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/5/10, James Thompson  wrote:

> Hey, Eric! We have missed you here on the porch. Welcome back. Please don't
> wait another 5 years before you post again. :>)

Thanks, Jim!  I've been lurking all along. I'm sure there's a bunch of
the old-timers down here under the Porch, too, but it's dark and hard
to tell who is who. Some guy was just muttering about beating Reynolds
to some minty Swan gouges; I wonder who that was? And there's another
guy who's stacking up jack planes in the corner, he smells a little
like shellac ... and so on.

And I'm still using the apricot chisel handle you sent me lo these
many years ago. Every time I'm tempted to use a hammer on it (usually
a waffle-faced framing hammer) I manage to pull back at the last
second.  ;^>

-Eric B. in Fairbansk, Alaska
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/5/10, James Thompson  wrote:

> Hey, Eric! We have missed you here on the porch. Welcome back. Please don't
> wait another 5 years before you post again. :>)

Thanks, Jim!  I've been lurking all along. I'm sure there's a bunch of
the old-timers down here under the Porch, too, but it's dark and hard
to tell who is who. Some guy was just muttering about beating Reynolds
to some minty Swan gouges; I wonder who that was? And there's another
guy who's stacking up jack planes in the corner, he smells a little
like shellac ... and so on.

And I'm still using the apricot chisel handle you sent me lo these
many years ago. Every time I'm tempted to use a hammer on it (usually
a waffle-faced framing hammer) I manage to pull back at the last
second.  ;^>

-Eric B. in Fairbanks, Alaska
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Eric,

I did not know anything about Hilger & Sons, so I checked my sources and
came up with a few data points. From what I've found, the company was
named after Johann Peter Hilger (1720-1788) and his sons Peter Caspar
Hilger (1747-1803) and Johann Peter Hilger (1752-1816). The first
mention I was able to find (thanks to Google book search) was in a
directory from 1798. You've already found out about the sons, who in
1779 built the house where now the Remscheid tool museum is located.
Hilger & Sons took part in the 1851 London exhibition in a joint venture
with three other Remscheid makers. From this source you can see the
range of tools made by these manufacturers:
http://books.google.com/books?id=2F4YucDjAWcC&pg=PA1085 A German source
about the exhibition lists the tools in more detail and you can see that
dividers ("Zirkel") where among them:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ucNAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR47

I even found a trademark of Hilger & Sons on a screw box in an ebay
auction some time ago:
http://www.holzwerken.de/pics/hilger_sons_trademark.jpg

And a nice tidbit: One of the files in Duncan Phyfe's toolchest is
marked "Hilger & Sons" (according to the EAIA Chronicle).

I don't know how long this company existed and if Walter Hilger (the
handsaw maker) had anything to do with them.

Wolfgang
------------------------------------------------------------------------