OldTools Archive
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267038 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2018‑11‑12 | Stanley No. 55 |
I've been blessed with a Stanely No. 55 in near perfect shape with all the cutters and attachments. I've experimented with it a bit and have watched The Woodwright's Shop episode on the 55 several times ( https://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-shop-combination-planes/) I'm wondering since I have this 55, do I really need a Rabbet Plane? |
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267040 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑11‑12 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
The 55 will do things that no other plane will do. Roy’s explanation is not th ebest,- just play aroubd and you will get the big picture. Just adjust the 2 fences to contain either side of the piece of molding you are working on, then slide the center section back and forth to the right location, put in the right blade at the right depth with the right support, and run that section. Then move it over and run the next section. If all you want to do is run edge rabbets, then a Stanley 78 (better a Record 778 because of the 2 fence supports) will suffice, as well as a simple skewed- blade woody. If you want general small rabetting duty, try a Stanley 50 - much lighter, and easy to set up and use The 55 is a curiosity, IMHO Ed Minch |
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267041 | Tim <tpendleton@g...> | 2018‑11‑12 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Seasoned, and possibly grizzled, galoots adhere to the specialized form of Feng sui known as Galoot sui. This special form of the discipline suggests that several of all possible versions of a tool are necessary to balance the energy of a shop. Just to be safe, you should get several. Tim |
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267042 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Ed, Thanks for the info. I've been looking at the Stanley no. 78 but I've heard several people complain about the fence and I've also heard it has trouble with hardwoods. Can anyone here confirm or deny this? The Record 778 looks great and (as you mention) addresses the fence issue, but I have yet to find one for sale in person. I'd love to get my hands on a Veritas Skew Rabbet plane (and will eventually someday) but for now, I can't justify the expense. Which leads me back to wondering if should worry about getting a rabbet plane (until I finally pony up for the Veritas) since I have the Stanley no. 55. -Dan |
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267043 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Tim, This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid! -Dan PS - but you're right, just to be safe I prob will end up with several of each... lol. |
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267044 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
On 2018-11-12 8:16 PM, Dan Beck wrote: > Ed, > > Thanks for the info. I've been looking at the Stanley no. 78 but I've heard > several people complain about the fence and I've also heard it has trouble > with hardwoods. Can anyone here confirm or deny this? The Record 778 looks > great and (as you mention) addresses the fence issue, but I have yet to > find one for sale in person. I know it maybe runs against the grain in this august company, but I suggest you work with what you have until it doesn't work for you anymore. And save your pennies for when that day comes. And if it doesn't happen, you'll have a pile of pennies! FWIW Don -- Let's make Norheim great again. ( Norsemen ) I am not going bloody bald. I have a very big brain. ( Upstart Crow ) I am not going bald. I have very low eyebrows. ( Upstart Crow ) |
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267045 | Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 7:21 PM Dan Beck |
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267046 | Nichael Cramer <nichael@s...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Dan Beck wrote: >[...] >I'm wondering since I have this 55, do I really need a Rabbet Plane? My two cents is yes. I'd look at it this way. The problem is that if you had only the 55 but no other rabbet plane, and you needed to do a bit of rabbet-ing --even a couple quick strokes-- this means you'd need to break down the 55 from whatever configuration it was in, set it up to the rabbet-work, and then next time you wanted to do something that involved the 55 set it back up to do this. Or to put this another way: There are specialized things a 55 can do quite well. most notably cut a wide assortment of mouldings. But OTOH a 55 will never work as well for the "normal" jobs --e.g. rabbets, plow, etc-- as a well tuned dedicated plane of the appropriate type. (While I don't have 55 a do have a 45 with a spare body. I basically reserve one body as a "semi-dedicated" dado plane. Saves me from acquiring a stack of those, as well as giving me a nice assortment of sizes. But I can't imaging not having the rest of a standard arsenal of planes.) Any way, that's just my opinion. I think the best advice was Don's. Take it out for a spin and see how it works for you. If it works for you great. But if not, it'll help you get a good idea of what you're looking for if you do decide to get a dedicated rabbet plane. N (P.S. Oh yeah. Congratulations on the great get.) |
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267047 | Bill Ghio | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
> On Nov 13, 2018, at 10:03 AM, Nichael Cramer |
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267048 | <gtgrouch@r...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
For rebate or dado work, I suggest you consider using a #46. With its skewed blade, the #46 is very effective at cutting rebates: more effective in my experience than a #45 or a #55 and on a par with wooden rebate planes with a skewed iron. They're a little more expensive than a #45 but well worth the money. YMMV, Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA ---- Kirk Eppler |
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267049 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
— errm, this got longer than intended - sorry. - Dan says blessed, but is it a curse? > On 12 Nov 2018, at 21:35, Dan Beck |
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267050 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Well said, Richard I have looked at a few †hings by Paul Sellars, and he did a discussion of the 78. He said this: Two makers I know have made this plane with only one difference and that is adding an extra bar to make twin bar rigidity to the fence. In actuality this makes little or no difference to functionality unless you are prone to overly bulldogging the plane to the wood and break the fence itself. Is bulldogging just being overly aggressive? The only time I have a problem wi†h the single bar is when the bar comes loose and spins between stroke and the fence goes cattywompuss. The whole discussion is here: https://paulsellers.com/2016/05/rebate-plane-no1-78-filletster-plane/ Ed Minch |
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267052 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
On 2018-11-13 8:47 AM, yorkshireman@y... wrote: > So to the 778 (Rebate plane, Jeff) Which happened to be hiding near he left knee when I pointed out the relative simplicity of it, compared to even the 50, You really cant beat the facility of the dedicated plane - by all means a skew or straight wooden rebate plane, but the 778, set up with a wooden addition to the fence and leather pad on the depth stop to prevent damage to the work and a truly sharp blade, is the go to tool for a rebate. Omit the padding if you only work on cruder jobs of course. Good idea, that padding. > > The big question for you is really “What work am I expecting to do?” > If you will need to work many rebates to get jobs competed and out of the door - buy a 778. Not a 78. Woden W78 maybe? Nice big wooden front knob, dual-arm fence and a good adjustment lever. Don -- Let's make Norheim great again. ( Norsemen ) I am not going bloody bald. I have a very big brain. ( Upstart Crow ) I am not going bald. I have very low eyebrows. ( Upstart Crow ) |
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267055 | Erik Levin | 2018‑11‑13 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Not having a #55, I can not speak directly to it, but I do get a some miles out of my #45. For rabbets, I use a rabbet plane. Much easier with a dedicated plane I am in custody of several (ok, too many) rabbet planes (Stanley #85s, Millers Falls, a Lee Valley skew (gift to myself a few years ago), a Craftsman branded (Millers falls, I think), and a few woodies), setup is much easier than the does-all, and the result, frankly, is better. As to what Ed said: > The only time I have a problem wi†h the single bar is when the bar comes > loose and spins between stroke and the fence goes cattywompuss. I didn't expect this when I first used an 85, figuring the fence was well protected by being under the sole. When it happened, and I figured it was an aberration. It happened again, so out came the loctite blue. Hasn't happened since. I am also careful to set the fence such that the back support is in contact with the sole. I do tend to use the Lee Valley skew the most, though, because it is a skew, or the Craftsman when going fenceless (it didn't come with one and I have not bothered rectifying... I paid $1 for it, IIRC, about 10-- 15?-- years ago. I don't know. At least one house ago.) The woodies don't get a lot of use because..... they are less accessible, maybe. *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply address(es) may not match the originating address |
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267068 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Lots of great info here and things to think about. Thank you one and all. Based on all of your feedback, I am going to hold out for either a Lee Valley skew or a 778, set up like Don suggests (with a wooden addition to the fence and leather pad on the depth stop). Wow, I thought it might be dangerous to join this list because I thought it would encourage me to buy lots of tools that I don't really need. But you've all talked me out of buying one today (well, delaying the purchase, I guess). |
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267070 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
On 2018-11-13 9:06 PM, Dan Beck wrote: > set up like Don suggests (with a wooden addition to > the fence and leather pad on the depth stop I'd like to take the credit for it, but that was Richard's post. It's always worth saving your pennies, waiting until you actually need a tool (not that I've done that very much) - or until you happen upon something bright and shiny! Don -- Let's make Norheim great again. ( Norsemen ) I am not going bloody bald. I have a very big brain. ( Upstart Crow ) I am not going bald. I have very low eyebrows. ( Upstart Crow ) |
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267071 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Morning all weather report first for a change - grey clouded weather front heading out to sea about 5 miles south of here in the pre dawn. SWMBO is headed in that direction in another hour. I’m headed to the workshop for a sharpening morning… To the rebaye planes. I read the Sellars article. Some sensible pointers on the set up, and I’d recommend it for that. It seems that he was brought up with the 78, and I’m tempted to say ‘of course he has the feel for using it. We can all use the most fragile of tools if we have the feel, and respect their frailties. I’ll stick to my first statement though, in that the two arm models are superior, in an engineering sense, to the single arm models. With the two side by side, try flexing the fence a little. the 778 stays rock solid, the 78 sways a little. If you apply pressure to the fence at the arm, then this will be fine. If you have no master to teach you how to hold and use it, then you will be better served with the 778. or the W78. I agree with Sellars that the addition of the knob isn’t needed, but again, if you have no master to tech the apprentice? (discussing rebate planes, Jeff) Incidentally, Record also made, for a while, a single arm version of the 043, the 041, along the same lines as a 78 with a fence secured by a single arm. It has the same trouble, though as we are the same size, and the arm is smaller than the 78’s arms, the flex is more noticeable. The 043 has it. A swift groove for a ply drawer or box bottom - the 043. Same as the 041, but more forgiving of a galoot in a hurry and applying pressure and a coarse cut. Richard Wilson a Galoot up in t’ North, at the edge of the debateable border lands. |
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267072 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Don Schwartz wrote: > > It's always worth saving your pennies, waiting until you actually need a tool (not that I've done that very much) - or until you happen upon something bright and shiny! No. I cannot let that stand. If you want to buy tools for cheap, you have to buy them when you see 'em cheap, 'cos it doesn't happen very often. Obviously, this strategy leads to a large stash of tools, but that's really just a side effect. And certainly not a problem. No sirree, I don't have a problem, not at all. I could stop any time I wanted. If I wanted. BugBear |
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267078 | Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Dan You mentioned you wanted a Veritas Skew rabbet plane. I had one, didn't like it, and sold it. There were three problems with it. 1. There wasn't a good place to put your off hand, I always put it between the two posts, and would cut myself on the blade. I ended up putting a piece of tape over the corner of the blade (usually after cutting myself and remembering the problem). 2. The center of mass of the plane wasn't above the blade, so the plane leaned off the work and I could never get a perpendicular cut. After using skew rabbet plane I ended up using a shoulder plane to fix it. 3. The adjustment controls drove me nuts. Who in their right mind wants the left right controls of the iron coupled with up down? I resorted to hammer taps. I sold it a few years ago, but bring the plane up whenever my says tools only enter the house but never leave. I lost money on the deal, but having a story to counter my wife's argument is way more valuable. I now use a wooden moving fillister plane, which I like a lot better. Thanks, Chris |
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267080 | Nichael Cramer <nichael@s...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
At 09:59 AM 11/14/2018, Christopher Dunn wrote: >[...] >I now use a wooden moving fillister plane, which I like a lot better. Totally agree here. One of the absolute stars of my plane-shelves. Also, my experience is that while they're kind of rare out in the wild, for some reason they don't seem to be particularly sought-after, consequently the prices seem to reasonable --or, at least "not-totally-unreasonable". The only real problem is that many dealers (at least those over on the 'Bay) don't seem to know what these are. For example, it's pretty common to see. say, a wooden plow plane being advertised as a "moving fillister plane:. (I actually have two. The first one came intact. The second one was missing the bottom-fence, so was dirt cheap and became a DYI project.) N |
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267081 | Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 7:27 AM Nichael Cramer |
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267082 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
I'll def keep my eyes open for a wooden moving fillister plane, too. Although I have to admit that - as Nichael stated about many eBayers - I may not recognize one when I see one. |
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267083 | Nichael Cramer <nichael@s...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Dan Beck wrote: >I'll def keep my eyes open for a wooden moving fillister plane, too. >Although I have to admit that - as Nichael stated about many eBayers - I >may not recognize one when I see one. If anyone's interested, here's a picture of a really spiffy example on Chirstopher Schwarz's blog: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/chris-schwarz-blog/essential- joinery-plane-the-moving-fillister/">https://www.popularwoodworking.com/chris- schwarz-blog/essential-joinery-plane-the-moving-fillister/ (for one thing, --in addition to the skewed blade-- I just like how _solid_ it feels in my hands.) N |
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267084 | Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Dan If you buy a moving fillister... Make sure the fence is good and tight, it likes to wander. I tend to take light cuts with it at first, because if the iron is set too rank it forces you to push hard, which tends to shift the fence. Once I'm a little deeper and have a wall to keep the plane on track, I'll extend the iron. Thanks, Chris |
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267085 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
> On Nov 14, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Nichael Cramer |
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267087 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
This is awesome - thanks! |
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267088 | Bill Ghio | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
> On Nov 14, 2018, at 9:59 AM, Christopher Dunn |
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267091 | Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
I have both the left- and right-hand versions of the Veritas Skew Rabbet planes and use them constantly. The one change I made that really improved the performance was to add a 1-1/4" x 10" wooden fence to the metal fence. I too had problems with getting a consistent perpendicular cut until I added the longer, wider fence. Technique helps, too. Don't use a full-fisted death grip; just push the plane with your palm. Ken On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 4:24 PM Bill Ghio via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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267092 | Erik Levin | 2018‑11‑14 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Ken noted: > Technique helps, too. Don't use a full-fisted death > grip; just push the plane with your palm. I would agree that statement pretty much covers all hand planes... Note that I was not endorsing the Veritas in particular, nor did I intend to start a debate about utility of a modern manufacture tool. It just happened that I was looking for a skew rabbet and couldn't find what I wanted for a reasonable price in the used market, so I spent not much more for a new Canadien unit, needing no cleaning or tune up. As for the moving fillister: A few years ago (10-ish?), that was my target. Couldn't find anything usable for a decent price. *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply address(es) may not match the originating address |
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267093 | Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> | 2018‑11‑15 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
Ken After reading Chris Schwarz's article on the skew rabbet I tried shifting my off hand back from the toe (I left the knob in place), and felt the plane worked better if you pushed it into the board closer to the blade (in the middle). It seemed to keep the plane on track better, as long as you avoided the sharp finger eating thing. The adjustment that drove me crazy was the Norris adjuster. Every time I wanted up down I got left right. The longer fence is a good suggestion. I own several Veriats tools, and they are are all nicely made, but the skew rabbet wasn't for me. Ed In regards to the fillister plane, Knight's "American mechanical dictionary" says: Fillister: 1. the rabbet on the outer edge of a sash-bar, to hold the glass and the putty. 2. A plane for making a rabbet, The variants are known as side fillisters and sash fillisters. The former is regulated for depth by a movable stop. There was no listing for dado plane in the D section or under plane. So admittedly it's not the most satisfying definition. A better read is the rabbet plane chapter in Gramam Blackburn's book "traditional woodworking handtools" where he walks you through the variants. He defines a fillister as "a rabbet plane with a fence and a depth stop. The standing fillister has" ... "a fence that stand fixed, and no variation in either depth or width. A more useful tool is a moving fillister whose fence and depth stop, if so fitted (not all moving fillisters have depth stops), may be moved." In the dado plane chapter he defines a dado as "a groove that runs across rather than with the grain", and thus the dado plane is one that cuts that groove. Thanks, Chris |
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267094 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑11‑15 | Re: Stanley No. 55 |
> On Nov 14, 2018, at 10:02 PM, Christopher Dunn |
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