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265417 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑03‑14 Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
New topic: has anyone here used concrete to mount a lathe?
If so, please email me off list (since it’s not hand tool related)
Claudio
265451 james rich <jameslrich3@g...> 2018‑03‑15 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
It is if you mix it with a hoe in a wheelbarrow
265463 Michael Suwczinsky <nicknaylo@g...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
With a shovel!

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 4:59 PM, james rich  wrote:

> It is if you mix it with a hoe in a wheelbarrow
>
> On 3/13/18, Claudio DeLorenzi  wrote:
> > New topic: has anyone here used concrete to mount a lathe?
> > If so, please email me off list (since it’s not hand tool related)
> > Claudio
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-- 
Michael Suwczinsky
265464 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
Stop! You’re both right.  I use a shovel to start and a hoe to maintain

Ed Minch
265467 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
On 3/16/2018 8:45 AM, Ed Minch wrote:
> Stop! You’re both right.  I use a shovel to start and a hoe to maintain
>
> Ed Minch
Exactly right
    I have a hoe with big holes in the blade for this.

  Nope, I never set a lathe stand in concrete. But I have set many much 
heavier machines in concrete.
Its basically like any other concrete trowling job except more finiky. 
Make good use of your level and straightedges!
   Its more about the mud than the trowling really.
   Use plenty of cement and do not make it too wet. It doesn't have to 
be miserable unworkable dry,
  but damn near.
         yours Scott
265469 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
Hi Guys:
Re: making a base for a metal lathe

I have a cabinet that it rests on, and it's just basically mounted on a
couple of sheets of plywood.  I would rather it be mounted on a rigid base
to permit leveling of the lathe (ie removing twist), preferably some thick
steel plate, but since I can't find any cold rolled plate at a reasonable
cost, I thought why not try some concrete?

  In about 1990, I put some sand and concrete on the shelf beneath an
inexpensive "RecordPower" wood lathe, that really improved performance
(weight, rigidity, and absorbed the harmonics and whatever), and I've read
that the Gingery Lathe guys are using concrete bases for their home foundry
cast aluminum lathes.

  I was hoping that someone on the list had direct experience with doing
this sort of thing, and whether to use simple 9 g ladder wire reinforcement
or integral glass fiber mixed in with the concrete, or whether to use the
"countertop" mixes that have those sorts of things built in, or any other
useful suggestions (esp what NOT to do).

   My thought was to cast about a 3 inch thick base with some cast in place
studs for mounting the lathe.  I would simply lay this slab on top of the
plywood cabinet top, relying on the rigidity of the concrete to hold the
lathe ways flat (after I have taken any twist out with the hold down
bolts).  I'm not sure if concrete "moves" with ambient moisture changes- I
just don't know much about concrete since I have personally only used it to
hold up clotheslines & fenceposts and the occasional small stair landing.

  I did ask for responses off list, so as to not offend those woodworker
only Galoots (even though every single Galoot treasures metal tools, each
tool consisting of parts made either directly or indirectly on a metal
cutting lathe... the several thousand year old mother of all tools).
Claudio
265470 <gtgrouch@r...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
I agree with Scott: the drier the mix the better, as long as it has sufficient
moisture to be completely wet. You want almost no slump. I personally like the
fiberglass admix, but I also use rebar or 6-6-10-10 mesh about two inches up
from the bottom. Once it is cured, there will be virtually no shifting.

Personally, I think 3" is too thin. I usually pour a minimum of 4" and I use 6"
where strength is critical. It's not clear to me whether or not you intend for
this to be movable when completed. If it is to be moved, I would definitely go
with something thicker than 3".

Good luck, Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA

---- Claudio DeLorenzi  wrote: 

=============
Hi Guys:
Re: making a base for a metal lathe

I have a cabinet that it rests on, and it's just basically mounted on a
couple of sheets of plywood.  I would rather it be mounted on a rigid base
to permit leveling of the lathe (ie removing twist), preferably some thick
steel plate, but since I can't find any cold rolled plate at a reasonable
cost, I thought why not try some concrete?

  In about 1990, I put some sand and concrete on the shelf beneath an
inexpensive "RecordPower" wood lathe, that really improved performance
(weight, rigidity, and absorbed the harmonics and whatever), and I've read
that the Gingery Lathe guys are using concrete bases for their home foundry
cast aluminum lathes.

  I was hoping that someone on the list had direct experience with doing
this sort of thing, and whether to use simple 9 g ladder wire reinforcement
or integral glass fiber mixed in with the concrete, or whether to use the
"countertop" mixes that have those sorts of things built in, or any other
useful suggestions (esp what NOT to do).

   My thought was to cast about a 3 inch thick base with some cast in place
studs for mounting the lathe.  I would simply lay this slab on top of the
plywood cabinet top, relying on the rigidity of the concrete to hold the
lathe ways flat (after I have taken any twist out with the hold down
bolts).  I'm not sure if concrete "moves" with ambient moisture changes- I
just don't know much about concrete since I have personally only used it to
hold up clotheslines & fenceposts and the occasional small stair landing.

  I did ask for responses off list, so as to not offend those woodworker
only Galoots (even though every single Galoot treasures metal tools, each
tool consisting of parts made either directly or indirectly on a metal
cutting lathe... the several thousand year old mother of all tools).
Claudio

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:45 AM, Ed Minch  wrote:

> Stop! You’re both right.  I use a shovel to start and a hoe to maintain
>
> Ed Minch
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 16, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Michael Suwczinsky 
> wrote:
> >
> > With a shovel!
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 4:59 PM, james rich  <mailto:jameslrich3@g...>> wrote:
> >
> >> It is if you mix it with a hoe in a wheelbarrow
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> > https:/
/oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> > https://swingleydev.com/a
rchive/faq.html
>
> > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.
com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
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traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
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tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

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OldTools@s...
265474 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
This is for a tiny modeller's lathe, the center height is 3 1/2" (7" swing)
and it only weighs maybe 220 lbs  including the 'lectrical part.
You might laugh, but it sits on my old patient exam table (overbuilt,
welded steel cabinet construction made by Imperial Surgical in Toronto in
about 1950, back when we still made good stuff in Canada)   I bought this
exam table used for $50 when I was flat broke, married with children, and
just starting out life.
  When I upgraded my office stuff to new stuff, it was too good to throw
out, but not really good enough for a doctor to use,  so it went into my
workshop,  then it became the minilathe table.  Because everything in my
shop (except my work benches are mobile), this is also on industrial
casters.  I want to make the little thing a bit more solid and rigid
because I've decided to rebuild/rescrape it, and just testing whether to
get a new spindle while they are still available.
  So far we have:  Gary's recommendations to go to thicker and Scott saying
to use a dryish mix.
  Also, maybe cover it to let it dry slowly in my heated shop- is this
still recommended, to let concrete cure slowly?   Oh well, I should just
get on with it.  Worst case, a bad casting will be a small table by the
fire pit to put cold drinks on in the summer time.  To put the size into
perspective, this thing only needs a base of  1 foot by 3 feet or so- I
just want it to have torsional stabilty, to prevent any twist on the ways,
and the concrete "slabette" is just going to sit on some plywood on a steel
table (which is on wheels- not ideal for a metal lathe).
Claudio
265475 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
Why not just throw a bag of concrete (or three) on the plywood, and be
done  Just add weight to the portable table, and let the table be the
stiffness.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 1:23 PM, Claudio DeLorenzi 
wrote:

>  To put the size into perspective, this thing only needs a base of  1 foot
> by 3 feet or so- I
> just want it to have torsional stabilty, to prevent any twist on the ways,
> and the concrete "slabette" is just going to sit on some plywood on a steel
> table (which is on wheels- not ideal for a metal lathe).
>

-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, CA
265477 james rich <jameslrich3@g...> 2018‑03‑16 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
Wouldn't the Hoe and  shovel get in the way?​
265484 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2018‑03‑17 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
Claudio confesses….  (snippage)

> On 16 Mar 2018, at 20:23, Claudio DeLorenzi  wrote:
> 
> This is for a tiny modeller's lathe, the center height is 3 1/2" (7" swing)
> and it only weighs maybe 220 lbs  including the 'lectrical part.
> You might laugh, but it sits on my old patient exam table (overbuilt,
> welded steel cabinet construction made by Imperial Surgical in Toronto in
> about 1950, back when we still made good stuff in Canada)   I bought this
> exam table used for $50 when I was flat broke, married with children, and
> just starting out life.
> - - - -
> casters.  I want to make the little thing a bit more solid and rigid
> because I've decided to rebuild/rescrape it, and just testing whether to
> get a new spindle while they are still available.
> - - - 
>   To put the size into
> perspective, this thing only needs a base of  1 foot by 3 feet or so- I
> just want it to have torsional stabilty, to prevent any twist on the ways,
> and the concrete "slabette" is just going to sit on some plywood on a steel
> table (which is on wheels- not ideal for a metal lathe).
> Claudio

Installing equipment that makes Norris style adjusters for YBI planes is OK
here. Our Listsmoms may be looking thte other way for a day or so.

If I reinterpret the question - it’s really about ‘how to ensure a lightweight
lathe bed stays flat and square?’

And, given its size and weight, and imagined parentage at Myford,  I’d start by
quantifying the problem. - How much out of square or whatever is it?  is your
patient bench flat and square, or is it imparting some twist?  If it was made
for bodies. then there was no need for it to be true in the first place.
Perhaps you need to weight it with sand bags, and mount the lathe on a
waterproof MDF slab of say 2 inches, with rubber pads to absorb direct
vibrations going to the stand, then merely shim the feet.
If you move away from the patient table, then some serious timber for a sturdy
base, with five hundredweight of sand bags in the base, retractable castors, and
suitable shimming, should do the job.
Bear in mind also, that the passion for accuracy in the machine is relevant to
the movement of the slideways related to the central axis.  Any of us using a
pole lathe will attest to the fact that ‘accuracy’ in the accoutrements of tool
rests and so forth isn’t always needed.  I came to wood turning from
engineering, and it was a while before I shook off the need for the pole lathe
to be ‘accurate’ in construction.  As long as the work turns without vibration
and the centres don't wave in the breeze, and something for a rest stays
still(ish)  we’re good to go.

Tempting though the urge os to go buy a shovel, a hoe, a barrow, a concrete
mixer, and all that stuff, you may have everything you need to hand.  I’ll bet
you even have some feeler gauges and a dial indicator ready to go.

Or, 
If it were me - I’d go find some steel fabrication place and have them cut a
slab of steel and drill it for the securing bolts.  - but I’m way too carefu’
wi’ t’ brass  (unwilling to let pennies go to other folk, Paddy)  to do that
unless the work I anticipate doing on said lathe needs super accuracy.


Richard Wilson
a galoot in Northumbria, where the North Sea is trying to throw more snow ashore
265485 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑03‑17 Re: Concrete casting to mount an antique metal lathe...
Richard makes some very good points: snip ‘ to mount the lathe on a rigid
steel plate’.
I did ask a local fabricator, and he quoted me more than $1500 dollars to
make the basic bones of a Myford lathe table and tray (square, not
hexagonal as the originals were).  That seemed a bit rich by Galoot terms.
  I then tried to find a drop of ¾” or 1” thick cold rolled plate, and my
local steel people said I had to buy a whole sheet of it, don’t have any
cut-offs available.
So,  this is why I’m here asking about concrete.   Reading about concrete.
Did you know Romans had different kinds for different purposes?  The mixed
some of the lightest, foamy, volcanic rock to make the top of the dome of a
building that’s still standing in Rome.  They used denser aggregate in the
supporting lower parts.   Hmmm.   Apparently concrete was around even
before the Romans.  How cool is that?
  Anyway, I will never learn enough about it just reading books though,
which is why I came to the Galoot knowledge base... real experience is key
to doing anything, and it takes far fewer iterations (tries, Jeff) to be
successful   if you have some good coaching...
Claudio

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