Bought a miter box at an auction. Wanted it because it
was solid and I wanted something to replace my 20yr old
Crapsman model (which while not awful, isn't great either).

But what'd I get? B^) Thought I'd try a quick verbal description
and see if anyone can point me to a web picture for
confirmation.

I suspect it's a MF because of the colors, but I can't
find any ID on it. Most of it is black, with the bed
being what I'd call MF red. The back is "corrugated" with a wavy
pattern. The bed has a pattern of raised bumps on it.
Two post design with no cross piece on the top of the posts.
Angle adjusts by pulling up on a lever underneath the
arm that pulls a pin out from the body and allows the
blade carriage to move. Also has a thumbscrew to lock
down the carraige. There is a length stop holder on
each end of the bed. The holders can be adjusted
forwards and backwards on the bed. There is one rod
included with a 90deg bend that can be put in either
holder and adjusted for length. The holders were a
bit odd in that they were identical rather than being
mirror images of each other. The one on the right seems
more correct in that it can be adjusted so that the
stop rod clamp would be behind the back and thus more
out of the way. The left side one needs to have the
rod clamp toward the front in order for the holder to
be able to be slid throughout its adjusting range.
If the holder is put toward the back it will hit the
back of the box.

Each saw post is set up for a depth stop, with a large
knurled nut screwing into the post and holding a slotted
piece with a bent over end. Missing the front one, but
it won't be a big deal to cobble together a replacement.
The saw posts have another screw opposite where the depth
adjuster screws go. Haven't looked at it that carefully
but it's probably to take up slack in the saw guide.

What else? Oh, the saw was about a 28" Disston and Sons
in good shape. Also, all the knurled nuts have a transverse
hole in them. Maybe to insert a nail/rod to help loosen them
if overtightened (or to overtighten them in the first place
I suppose B^)) I'm guessing the whole thing dates from
about the early 50's or so. Can anyone help me out on
this? Further information provided by request. B^)

Jim

At 12:11 PM 8/10/98 Jim Foster wrote:
>Bought a miter box at an auction. Wanted it because it

snip...........

The following URL points to a picture of a partial Millers Falls Langdon
Type mitre box:

http://www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/Langdon.htm

I just happen to have this pic for other reasons and of course there is no
saw and there are some pieces missing off of the saw guides.  This is the
type I am familiar with -- although there is not a thumbscrew to lock down
the carriage as you talk about.

Jim Barker

Jim wrote:

>What else? Oh, the saw was about a 28" Disston and Sons
>in good shape. Also, all the knurled nuts have a transverse
>hole in them. Maybe to insert a nail/rod to help loosen them
>if overtightened (or to overtighten them in the first place
>I suppose B^)) I'm guessing the whole thing dates from
>about the early 50's or so. Can anyone help me out on
>this? Further information provided by request. B^)

This sounds very much like a Millers Falls 'All Steel' miterbox which I
have downstairs. Is the miterbox made of steel? Are there bronze plugs in
the posts for the back of the saw to ride on?
****************************
Tom Price (TomPrice@a...)
Brakes For Rust
The Galoots Progress:
http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/galtprog.html

At 06:14 PM 8/10/98, Jim Foster wrote:

>Bought a miter box at an auction. Wanted it because it


>I suspect it's a MF because of the colors, but I can't
>find any ID on it. Most of it is black, with the bed
>being what I'd call MF red. The back is "corrugated" with a wavy
>pattern. The bed has a pattern of raised bumps on it.
>Two post design with no cross piece on the top of the posts.
>Angle adjusts by pulling up on a lever underneath the
>arm that pulls a pin out from the body and allows the
>blade carriage to move. Also has a thumbscrew to lock
>down the carraige.

Sounds like my MF 1285.  The name plate is a thin aluminum piece pop riveted
onto the front saw post.

>There is a length stop holder on
>each end of the bed. The holders can be adjusted
>forwards and backwards on the bed. There is one rod
>included with a 90deg bend that can be put in either
>holder and adjusted for length. The holders were a
>bit odd in that they were identical rather than being
>mirror images of each other. The one on the right seems
>more correct in that it can be adjusted so that the
>stop rod clamp would be behind the back and thus more
>out of the way. The left side one needs to have the
>rod clamp toward the front in order for the holder to
>be able to be slid throughout its adjusting range.
>If the holder is put toward the back it will hit the
>back of the box.
>

Unfortunately, my box rods are MIA, so I can't help there.

>Each saw post is set up for a depth stop, with a large
>knurled nut screwing into the post and holding a slotted
>piece with a bent over end. Missing the front one, but
>it won't be a big deal to cobble together a replacement.

Those pieces can be adjusted to give just a little clearance between the
blade teeth and the metal slot.  If you set them just right and have a
slightly tapered saw blade, the board will be cut thru only when the saw is
pushed tight to the front saw post.

>The saw posts have another screw opposite where the depth
>adjuster screws go. Haven't looked at it that carefully
>but it's probably to take up slack in the saw guide.

Hmm, on mine, there is an assembly there (left side of posts) that is
basically a spring loaded pin that goes into a groove cut at the bottom end
of the saw post.  Lift the post(s)(and saw) enough and the spring driven pin
drops into the slot and holds the saw in the air so you can position the
wood for a cut.  Pull the pin out a bit and the saw can drop down.

Also, take a look at the saw kerf slot.  Below it there should be a big
slotted screw.  If you loosen it, you can pull the front saw post out enough
to fit a 10" board flat on the base.  Try that with your average tailed
mitre box!

>What else? Oh, the saw was about a 28" Disston and Sons
>in good shape. Also, all the knurled nuts have a transverse
>hole in them. Maybe to insert a nail/rod to help loosen them
>if overtightened (or to overtighten them in the first place
>I suppose B^))

Mine too.  Use a nail set, the hardened steel would be less likely to bend.
>I'm guessing the whole thing dates from
>about the early 50's or so. Can anyone help me out on
>this? Further information provided by request. B^)

Maybe so for the start date.  My box was originally used by my father and
was well worn by the time I was old enough to be impressed by it (around
1956).  I have seen an early FWW with an ad for 3 sizes of this box, so they
were still being sold in the 78-82 timeframe; even after the introduction of
power mitre boxes.

If this is what you have, then you have a fine box.  Enjoy it.  I used mine
this past week to do some window trim and it is still working fine after at
least 50 years of service.

Just say, tmPL, my father was a Galoot before we existed.
Charlie Newbold

Jim Foster, who inquired about a mitre box strikingly similar to mine, wrote:
>>Each saw post is set up for a depth stop, with a large
>>knurled nut screwing into the post and holding a slotted
>>piece with a bent over end. Missing the front one, but
>>it won't be a big deal to cobble together a replacement.

Charlie Newbold replied:
>Those pieces can be adjusted to give just a little clearance between the
>blade teeth and the metal slot.  If you set them just right and have a
>slightly tapered saw blade, the board will be cut thru only when the saw is
>pushed tight to the front saw post.

By "those pieces" are you referring to the depth stops that are screwed to
the heads of the saw guide risers where the back of the saw rides, or to
the elongate slotted pieces with the bent-over ends that are held to the
outside of the posts in which the saw guides rise and fall? What are these
latter pieces for?

>>The saw posts have another screw opposite where the depth
>>adjuster screws go. Haven't looked at it that carefully
>>but it's probably to take up slack in the saw guide.
>
>Hmm, on mine, there is an assembly there (left side of posts) that is
>basically a spring loaded pin that goes into a groove cut at the bottom end
>of the saw post.  Lift the post(s)(and saw) enough and the spring driven pin
>drops into the slot and holds the saw in the air so you can position the
>wood for a cut.  Pull the pin out a bit and the saw can drop down.

Oooohhhhh! (epiphany) So that's what those things are for! I just ran
downstairs to try it out. Sweet! My mitre box is missing one of the two,
but one is better than none.

>Also, take a look at the saw kerf slot.  Below it there should be a big
>slotted screw.  If you loosen it, you can pull the front saw post out enough
>to fit a 10" board flat on the base.  Try that with your average tailed
>mitre box!

Yep, that's there too. Neat!

Charlie also wrote:
>Sounds like my MF 1285.  The name plate is a thin aluminum piece pop riveted
>onto the front saw post.

OK, third trip to the basement... Nope, no nameplate and no evidence of one
ever being there. Mine has, cast into the bottom, where the legs bolt on,
"1200 C" at one end and  "72" at the other, but no other identifying marks.

Thanks,

Tim

Tim Allen asked:

>Jim Foster, who inquired about a mitre box strikingly similar to mine, wrote:
>>>Each saw post is set up for a depth stop, with a large
>>>knurled nut screwing into the post and holding a slotted
>>>piece with a bent over end. Missing the front one, but
>>>it won't be a big deal to cobble together a replacement.
>
>Charlie Newbold replied:
>>Those pieces can be adjusted to give just a little clearance between the
>>blade teeth and the metal slot.  If you set them just right and have a
>>slightly tapered saw blade, the board will be cut thru only when the saw is
>>pushed tight to the front saw post.
>
>By "those pieces" are you referring to the depth stops that are screwed to
>the heads of the saw guide risers where the back of the saw rides, or to
>the elongate slotted pieces with the bent-over ends that are held to the
>outside of the posts in which the saw guides rise and fall? What are these
>latter pieces for?

"Those pieces" would be the short (~2") straight ones on the saw guides.
They are the ones to set to control the maximum depth of the saw so it cuts
thru a board but does not scrape on the metal blade slot.  The ajustments
need a screwdriver.

The longer bent ones are attached to the post assembly and can be set via
the knurled nuts to limit depth cuts as for tenon shoulders.  I can't do it
on mine, as one of the assemblies is MIA. :-(  Maybe it is time to cobble up
a make-do.

snip...

>OK, third trip to the basement... Nope, no nameplate and no evidence of one
>ever being there. Mine has, cast into the bottom, where the legs bolt on,
>"1200 C" at one end and  "72" at the other, but no other identifying marks.

Mine is free of such marks.

Charlie Newbold

Thanks to all who've provided input! I'm trying to reply to
all the EMails in one here, to keep the info in one spot.
I'll try to trim things down as much as I can while still
keeping the threads together:

I still can't quite
nail it down, but it's probably not a Langdon based
on Jim Barker's picture. Mine doesn't have the cutouts in
the base and back. And while most of the saw post assembly
matches, the release lever in the picture looks like
it's on the right side of the rotating assembly, whereas
mine's directly underneath. Otherwise it matches pretty closely
though. Based on Charlie Newbold's info, it's probably a
1285 (though that doesn't mean much to me B^)). More info
below:

Jim Barker wrote:
>

> The following URL points to a picture of a partial Millers Falls Langdon
> Type mitre box:
>
> http://www.azstarnet.com/~barkerj/Langdon.htm
>
> I just happen to have this pic for other reasons and of course there is no
> saw and there are some pieces missing off of the saw guides.  This is the
> type I am familiar with -- although there is not a thumbscrew to lock down
> the carriage as you talk about.

Calling it a thumb screw was a poor choice of words. It's almost
exactly like the rotating lever that would lock a caster from
rolling.

TomPrice@a... wrote:
>
>
> This sounds very much like a Millers Falls 'All Steel' miterbox which I
> have downstairs. Is the miterbox made of steel? Are there bronze plugs in
> the posts for the back of the saw to ride on?

The box is made of steel as opposed to being a large casting. The
base plates are welded onto a frame made from about 1"x3/16" steel
strap formed into a rectangular shape. There are bronze inserts in
the tops of the posts. I didn't see that the saw would actually
ride on them in any way though.

Newbold wrote:
>

>
> Sounds like my MF 1285.  The name plate is a thin aluminum piece pop riveted
> onto the front saw post.

And inspection shows a couple of rivets sticking out and a
slight change in finish where the plate used to be. B^(

>
.
>
> >Each saw post is set up for a depth stop, with a large
> >knurled nut screwing into the post and holding a slotted
> >piece with a bent over end. Missing the front one, but
> >it won't be a big deal to cobble together a replacement.
>
> Those pieces can be adjusted to give just a little clearance between the
> blade teeth and the metal slot.  If you set them just right and have a
> slightly tapered saw blade, the board will be cut thru only when the saw is
> pushed tight to the front saw post.

Turned out there are actually two depth setting mechanisms. The
ones Charlie just described (fairly small and on the left side
of my posts) that require a screwdriver to adjust and are indeed,
I'm sure, the "bottoming out" adjustments. Both of these are present
on the box I have. There is still another
larger one that I described. When I lower that all the way then
the blade is stopped by the bottoming out adjusters. When I raise
it and tighten it down the saw rods still move fine, so whoever
had a problem with this probably has the pieces bent. Charlie mentioned
in a later post that this stop could be used as a depth stop
for cutting tenon shoulders and the like. I've done exactly that
with my old (newer? geeze, things can get confusing in oldtools
sometimes) miter box.

>
> >The saw posts have another screw opposite where the depth
> >adjuster screws go. Haven't looked at it that carefully
> >but it's probably to take up slack in the saw guide.
>
> Hmm, on mine, there is an assembly there (left side of posts) that is
> basically a spring loaded pin that goes into a groove cut at the bottom end
> of the saw post.  Lift the post(s)(and saw) enough and the spring driven pin
> drops into the slot and holds the saw in the air so you can position the
> wood for a cut.  Pull the pin out a bit and the saw can drop down.
>

Ahyup, that's they way they work. They were tightened down so much
that they didn't spring out. Plus they were a bit stuck. Loosing the
lock screw and pushing the pins freed them up and they work just as
Charlie describes.

> Also, take a look at the saw kerf slot.  Below it there should be a big
> slotted screw.  If you loosen it, you can pull the front saw post out enough
> to fit a 10" board flat on the base.  Try that with your average tailed
> mitre box!

Yep, got that too. It is pretty cool and would give a D705 a run
for the money. Uh, if I had one of course. Or would admit it, anyway.
B^)

>
> >What else? Oh, the saw was about a 28" Disston and Sons
> >in good shape.

Saw did measure 28" on the nose, and had no markings other than the
Disston and Sons stamped on the spine (and the medallion saw nut, of
course). Once again, thanks to all who helped on this, and I hope
the info can be of use to others with unidentified miter boxes.

Jim

At 5:44 PM 8/12/98, James Foster wrote:
>I still can't quite
>nail it down, but it's probably not a Langdon based
>on Jim Barker's picture. Mine doesn't have the cutouts in
>the base and back.

I have the impression that several different versions of "Langdon" mitre
boxes were made over the years. Mine also doesn't have the cutouts in the
base and back (presumably those are for some type of hold-down mechanism),
but otherwise looks a lot like Jim Barker's picture.

The other picture you might look at is:
http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/langdon.jpg  which can be found on
Randy's page of Miller's Falls History
(http://www.public.coe.edu/~rroeder/history.htm) where he talks about
Miller's Falls acquisition of the Langdon line.

>... most of the saw post assembly (of Jim Foster's box)
>matches (that of Jim Barker's box)...

Isn't it this style of saw post assembly that distinguished the Langdon
mitre boxes from other makes?

>Calling it a thumb screw was a poor choice of words. It's almost
>exactly like the rotating lever that would lock a caster from
>rolling.

Yep. Mine too.

>> This sounds very much like a Millers Falls 'All Steel' miterbox which I
>> have downstairs. Is the miterbox made of steel? Are there bronze plugs in
>> the posts for the back of the saw to ride on?
>
>The box is made of steel as opposed to being a large casting. The
>base plates are welded onto a frame made from about 1"x3/16" steel
>strap formed into a rectangular shape.

My box is definitely cast, with steel tables and steel legs bolted
(actually machine screws with little square nuts rather than big bolts) to
the casting.

Glad for this thread, as i have indeed learned what a couple parts of my
box do, which I didn't know before...

Regards,

Tim

--  Wendy, Timothy & Bennett Thorpe Allen * Keene, New Hampshire --
--  catamount@t...  *  http://top.monad.net/~catamount/ --