Porchsitters,

Following the advice of the SGFH, I've been
accumulating hollow augers in the event that I someday
might need one.  In the interest of research, I
thought it would be good to acquire different makes to
be able to compare them to see which works best for
me.  To date, there are E. C. Stearns, A. A. Woods, 
Cincinnati Tool and Goodell-Pratt hollow augers taking
up space on a shelf in the shop.  All are at about the
same state of untuning.

 This upcoming fall I'll be taking a chairmaking class
with Drew Langsner so I am looking for recommendations
from anyone that has some experience or opinions about
these beasts.  Which works well and which don't? 
What's a good angle for the bevel? 

As always opinions do not need to be supported by any
facts, experience or common sense.  

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi. 

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Jim Crammond said:

> I am looking for recommendations
> from anyone that has some experience or opinions about
> these beasts.  Which works well and which don't?
> As always opinions do not need to be supported by any
> facts, experience or common sense.

Lacking all three, I'll jump in. In addition to the gizmocity factor, the
A.A. Woods has the advantage of continuous adjustment, allowing the
refinement of the tenon to match the mortise. Since the mortise may be
drilled by a slightly undersized spoon bit or some such, this seems to be
a signficant advantage.

Of course,  for sheer wondrous complexity, the Woods can't hold a candle
to the James Swan "Ultimatum" with its rotating collar moving opposing
pairs of blades and guides in and and out. Jon Zimmer happens to have one
available: http://jonzimmersantiquetools.com/tools/bitstock.htm (second
hollow auger, about a third of the way down the page). No connection, no
interest, just the only photo I could find.

Steve - another Kokomo galoot

Jim asks about hollow augers...

> me.  To date, there are E. C. Stearns, A. A. Woods,
> Cincinnati Tool and Goodell-Pratt hollow augers taking

And drops a minor gloat...

>  This upcoming fall I'll be taking a chairmaking class
> with Drew Langsner so I am looking for recommendations

And then asks some more specific questions...

> these beasts.  Which works well and which don't?
> What's a good angle for the bevel?

I have a Stearns adjustable that's been repainted, and a Woods (with the
box *and* instructions). I almost universally turn to the Stearns, not
that I do hollow augering a lot and think the Stearns is better, but it
took so d**n long to tune the thing that I can't imagine trying to get a
second one completely tuned.=20

Oh, tool acquisition bonus: you'll need a spoke pointer, Stearns makes a
nice one in several different sizes - but they never have the Stearns
name on them for some reason. You know them by the adjustable depth
setting that is integral with the shank.

I found that I had to put a double bezel on the blade. The blade is
planing the shoulder on end grain, so you might keep that in mind when
choosing angles, but I adapted the angles on the fly and couldn't tell
you what I ended up with. I'm not taking it out the thing to measure
*for anybody*. I try to keep the "mouth" of the "plane" body as small as
possible. I found that it helped to nick off one corner of the blade,
due to the geometry of the hollow auger setup - and posted about it some
time ago. The problem is that the inside edge sticks into the hollow
space when you've got everything else set up the way you want it. This
causes the hollow auger (hereafter referred to as HA) to cut threads
into your sticks, and results in less than clean tenons.

Have fun at Drew's, GAM turned me on to his books, and I'm a huge fan.
Just say, oh forget it, I'm just plain jealous.

Regards,
Bretton

Sweating and Sunburned in Seattle (?!?!?)

-- 
Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) in Bellevue, WA

GG,

I'd like to offer a second on Jim's request. I just got no-name 
dial-type auger and a Woods auger. Plus, I'm on the lookout for a 
Stearns. Aside from a few references in tool encyclopedias, I'm finding 
very little out there about these tools.

My GITs (6 & 3 yrs old girls) are excited about the prospect of using 
them to make stools. So I want these to run as smoothly as possible. I 
also acquired a 14" brace to give them a bit more leverage if they need 
it to make these babies turn.

Thoughts?

Steve in Brainerd

On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 02:48  PM, Jim Crammond wrote:

>
> Porchsitters,
>
> Following the advice of the SGFH, I've been
> accumulating hollow augers in the event that I someday
> might need one.  In the interest of research, I
> thought it would be good to acquire different makes to
> be able to compare them to see which works best for
> me.  To date, there are E. C. Stearns, A. A. Woods,
> Cincinnati Tool and Goodell-Pratt hollow augers taking
> up space on a shelf in the shop.  All are at about the
> same state of untuning.
>
>  This upcoming fall I'll be taking a chairmaking class
> with Drew Langsner so I am looking for recommendations
> from anyone that has some experience or opinions about
> these beasts.  Which works well and which don't?
> What's a good angle for the bevel?
>
> As always opinions do not need to be supported by any
> facts, experience or common sense.
>
> Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
> To unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface:
>     http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools
>

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Jim
Crammond  Reply-To: Jim Crammond  Date: Sat,
28 Jun 2003 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT)

>
>Porchsitters,
>
>Following the advice of the SGFH, I've been accumulating hollow augers
>in the event that I someday might need one. In the interest of
>research, I thought it would be good to acquire different makes to be
>able to compare them to see which works best for
>me.  To date, there are E. C. Stearns, A. A. Woods, Cincinnati Tool and
>     Goodell-Pratt hollow augers taking up space on a shelf in the
>     shop. All are at about the same state of untuning.
>
> This upcoming fall I'll be taking a chairmaking class with Drew
> Langsner so I am looking for recommendations from anyone that has some
> experience or opinions about these beasts. Which works well and which
> don't? What's a good angle for the bevel?
>
>As always opinions do not need to be supported by any facts, experience
>or common sense.
>
>Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/ To
>unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface:
>http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools
>

Jim, Being a wheelwright, I use hollow augers on every spoke I put in a
wheel. The star is my favorite auger. It is the Silver & Demings patent
#143132. Requires no refinement, set for size and go. It will also work
in machinery. The Swan auger is my second choice, patent #119096. Keep
the knife sharp, you're ready to go, no adjusting. The only drawback is
you have to have a different size auger for each size tenon. You can
find Swan augers on EBay almost every week. The are about the cheapest
augers. They are the one that has 2 knives and are usually painted
green. The second Swan auger, patent #520502, is also a good choice.
Don't waste your time of Stearnss augers. They take constant adjusting,
will cut undersize and the next time will cut oversize. Spoke pointers
are required before the use of all augers but the Star and A.A.Wood
patent#690339 which is called a fore auger. The Stearns spoke pointer is
the only pointer patented #220442 and the patent is on the scale that's
on the depth stop. I have over 70 hollow augers. Jim Price is the king
of hollow augers. He has over 200, wrote the book "Patents for Bit Stock
Tools and the Machines That Made Them". wheelright@m...

Greetings porch dwellers,

Was tuning up and testing my two hollow augers. The no-namer got stuck 
on my test piece and despite gentle turning and twisting, it popped off 
and landed on the cement basement floor. SIGH! Now have one A.A. Woods 
auger. Guess I'll take Richard's advise and seek out the Swan augers.

What's the secret to getting the Woods auger tuned up right?

Steve Fisher
Brainerd, MN

"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...
it's more like a jar of jalapenos.

What you do today,
might burn your ass tomorrow."

On Sunday, June 29, 2003, at 03:39  PM, Richard Cole wrote:

> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Jim Crammond 
> Reply-To: Jim Crammond 
> Date:  Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>
>> Porchsitters,
>>
>> Following the advice of the SGFH, I've been
>> accumulating hollow augers in the event that I someday
>> might need one.  In the interest of research, I
>> thought it would be good to acquire different makes to
>> be able to compare them to see which works best for
>> me.  To date, there are E. C. Stearns, A. A. Woods,
>> Cincinnati Tool and Goodell-Pratt hollow augers taking
>> up space on a shelf in the shop.  All are at about the
>> same state of untuning.
>>
>> This upcoming fall I'll be taking a chairmaking class
>> with Drew Langsner so I am looking for recommendations
>> from anyone that has some experience or opinions about
>> these beasts.  Which works well and which don't?
>> What's a good angle for the bevel?
>>
>> As always opinions do not need to be supported by any
>> facts, experience or common sense.
>>
>> Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>>
>> Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
>> To unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface:
>>    http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools
>>
>
> Jim,
>   Being a wheelwright, I use hollow augers on every spoke I put in a 
> wheel. The star is my favorite auger.  It is the Silver & Demings 
> patent #143132.  Requires no refinement, set for size and go.  It will 
> also work in machinery.
>   The Swan auger is my second choice, patent #119096.  Keep the knife 
> sharp, you're ready to go, no adjusting.  The only drawback is you 
> have to have a different size auger for each size tenon.  You can find 
> Swan augers on EBay almost every week.  The are about the cheapest 
> augers.  They are the one that has 2 knives and are usually painted 
> green.
>   The second Swan auger, patent #520502, is also a good choice.  Don't 
> waste your time of Stearnss augers.  They take constant adjusting, 
> will cut undersize and the next time will cut oversize.
>   Spoke pointers are required before the use of all augers but the 
> Star and A.A.Wood patent#690339 which is called a fore auger.  The 
> Stearns spoke pointer is the only pointer patented #220442 and the 
> patent is on the scale that's on the depth stop. I have over 70 hollow 
> augers.  Jim Price is the king of hollow augers. He has over 200, 
> wrote the book "Patents for Bit Stock Tools and the Machines That Made 
> Them".
> wheelright@m...
>
>
>
> Archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
> To unsubscribe or change options, use the web interface:
>     http://galoots.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=oldtools
>

--- Richard  Cole  wrote:

  Keep the knife sharp, you're ready to go,
> no adjusting.  The only drawback is you have to have
> a different size auger for each size tenon.  You can
> find Swan augers on EBay almost every week.  The are
> about the cheapest augers.  They are the one that
> has 2 knives and are usually painted green.

I was also going to suggest getting the single size
hollow augers, as the need to readjust the variable
sized ones can take a lot of time and effort.

>  Jim Price is the king of
> hollow augers. He has over 200, wrote the book
> "Patents for Bit Stock Tools and the Machines That
> Made Them".

Jim Price has available some CDs with the patents of
most of the brace-related tools that he has discovered
so far.  It's nice to have all this info on some easy
to use CDs or on your computer hard drive, ready for
quick reference.  
One of the galoots was offering Jim's (lot of Jims
involved here, I think) CDs on Old Tools awhile ago, I
think, and they are also available direct from Jim Price.

=====
Jim Erdman  (in Menomonie, WI)

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