First the personal (boring) stuff: I am 32 years old, married for 5-1/2
years, father of a 11 month old girl and expecting a little galoot in the
fall (sept).  I graduated from the University of Maryland (Go Terps!!) with
a BS and MS in engineering.  I currently work as a mechanical engineer for
a Navy research and development center in Annapolis, MD.  Unfortunately, my
organization will be closing in the next year or so, do to the outcome of
BRAC 95, and relocated to  Philadelphia.  If there is anybody out there
from the Philly area, I'd be interested in hearing about local "galoot
hang-outs" and maybe about places to live, schools, etc.

Now, the woodworking stuff. I have been working with wood for about 3-4
years now, a relative newcomer.  I probably got interested in woodworking
like many other people.  Watching Father Norm and looking at over-priced,
particle board furniture and thinking to yourself, "I can do better than
that!"  So I filled my workshop with all of those wonderful p*wer tools
that Norm had: t*bles*w, r*uter, b*nds*w, dr*ll pr*ss; you get the picture.
About two years ago I came into posession of about 150 bdft of air dried
(~2 yrs) cherry.  I needed a way to surface the cherry, so of course: p*wer
jointer and p*wer thickness planer.  After looking into purchasing these
machines, I realized I'd have to shell out almost $1,000 (low end) to
surface my rough sawn wood that I purchase this way because it ws cheaper
than S4S.  Then, I saw the light - handtools!!!  I contacted our beloved
MoA about purchasing the necessary tools.  He cautioned me that prepping
stock by hand was a chore, but certainly worth a try.  So I tempered my
enthusiasm a bit and decided to do all my jointing tasks (edge and surface)
by hand, but decided that it may be better to do my thicknessing by the
power of el*ctr*city.  So I picked up a #5 (and a block plane) from Mr
Leach and a the planer from HD.  Well once I learned to properly sharpen me
planes I can't stop planing.  I plane everything I get my hands on!!  I
find myself going into my shop just to make shavings!!!  Of course you have
to stop and take time to touch, smell and taste the shavings
(walnut-yuck!).  Any way, since then I have restored a #603 I inherited
from my father and am in the process of restoring a Fulton #4 I inherited
from my father-in-law.  Although I don't think I will ever give up my
t*able s*w or my thickness pl*ner, I am looking to replace my router with a
variety of planes.  (My daughter does not like to be lulled to sleep by the
scream of the router!!!)  I am also looking to pick-up a shoulder plane(s),
rabbet (#78 or #79 ?) and a #7 or #8.  The recent talks about saws, saw
set, etc. has peaked my interest, and I'm thinking about getting a few
saws, so who knows, maybe I will have a D*lta CS for sale.

Anyway, I'm thankful I've found this group to fuel my newly found interest
in vintage woodworking tools and traditional woodworking methods.

I see alot of galoots from the west coast, the mid-west and NE, but how
about any from the mid-atlantic?

Also, I have a question about workbench bases.  I've always assumed that
they would be constructed out of 4x4 stock.  But I have been seeing many
designs which laminates 4/4 stock to build up the thickness.  I have never
seen a discussion regarding the pros/cons of 4x4 vs laminated bases.
Anyone have any insights they can give me?

Thanks.

Joe Dolinar

At 1:47 PM -0500 2/26/97, Joseph Dolinar wrote:
	[His good bio, here totally snipped, adding:]

>Also, I have a question about workbench bases.  I've always assumed that
>they would be constructed out of 4x4 stock.  But I have been seeing many
>designs which laminates 4/4 stock to build up the thickness.  I have never
>seen a discussion regarding the pros/cons of 4x4 vs laminated bases.
>Anyone have any insights they can give me?

	When I impulsively resolved to build a real woodworker's bench a
couple of years ago, my available materials consisted of a sizable stack of
salvaged maple 1x4s (nominal, really 3/4"x3 1/2", of course).  The top is
laminated to 2 1/4" thick, with 3 1/2" aprons, including around tool/chip
tray.  All stringers and rails are of this stock, flat.  The legs are
fabricated by cutting rabbet edges in two pieces and gluing them together
in an "L" profile.
	Warning. ASCII art attempt follows:

	____
	|   |
	|   |	<---Profile of leg assembly as seen from above (or below)
	|   |
	| __|________
	|_| 	    |
	|___________|

	As has been revealed to relative oldtimers to the list (like, last
fall), the stringers and rails are fixed on the outside surfaces of these
legs with (joinery purists, avert eyes here)-- 3/8' carriage bolts. One
reason for the steel joinery is that I wanted to be able to disassemble for
moving.  Don't plan to spend the rest of my days in this part of the world,
and the bench goes with me.
	This is a lot less material than a full 4x4 square, but just about
as much lateral and horizontal strength and rigidity, at least for the uses
to which I put this bench.  I've done a reasonable amount of heavy planing
on it, and it don't wobble, don't rack, just sits there and lets me bang on
it and push against it in various directions.
		Tom Holloway
Just say (tm) If Whittier Production Studios actually comes out with the
Galootavision spectactular, you can see this bench and a few other of my
spechul thangs on video.  But I sure hope Paddy doesn't consider this a
nudge, etc. (What's he doing gloating about his amazing feats of joinery,
when he should be spending every spare moment dubbing tape, anyhow?  ;-)

>Also, I have a question about workbench bases.  I've always assumed that
>they would be constructed out of 4x4 stock.  But I have been seeing many
>designs which laminates 4/4 stock to build up the thickness.  I have never
>seen a discussion regarding the pros/cons of 4x4 vs laminated bases.
>Anyone have any insights they can give me?

GG,

Well, Paddy's seen the beginnings of my bench, and it's made up of
laminated legs.

There's a local sawmill that had some 8/4 red oak, so I bought a bunch,
ripped it into 2x4s (true 2x4, not the junk houses are framed with), and
have glued them up into 4x4s (Excel glue).

I've since cut out most of the tenons and chopped the mortises, and so
far, there's no indication of delamination. I suspect that with good glue,
and good joints, there's not much that will cause it to delaminate.

Just my $.02, and I'll have more info in, oh, another couple of months
when my base is finished. I sorta got sidetracked by a complete
shop-reorg, and new lathe acquisition. (Course, it's not human-powered, so
I can't talk about it here ;-).

Welcome aboard, from another mid-atlantic galoot.

	-Mike
 -----------------
Michael P. Weaver                                     Email: mikew@u...
Database Program Adminstrator 			      
Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's.

GG's
	Scott replied to Joe, "The beams I got aren't worth a damn as
furniture lumber - they're full of worm holes, but I think they add a bit of
charm to bench legs (which is what I used one of the beams for)."

The old walnut beams I recently used for end tables also had some worm
holes.  I set aside the worst pieces but still wound up with some worm holes
showing in the table tops.  Suprisingly, they look great.  I allowed some
sawdust to remain in the "holes" when I was finishing the tops, and so they
are darker than the surrounding wood.  It seems to add character--visual
interest, if you will.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think worm holes in old wood precludes it
from being used in fine furniture--or even in the furniture I make.

-Gil

Mike W. writes:

>There's a local sawmill that had some 8/4 red oak, so I bought a bunch, 
>ripped it into 2x4s (true 2x4, not the junk houses are framed with), and 
>have glued them up into 4x4s (Excel glue).

My next project is going to be a workbench. The base will be 4 large 
legs with stretchers between and a big ol' slab of oak dropped on top. 
I will probably have to glue up the top but my question right now is 
wrt the legs. At first, I was going to glue up stock just like Mike 
did. Then I got to thinking of asking the sawyer for several lengths 
of 6 inch square oak from the center portion of the tree. This would 
be the portion of the tree which usually goes into fence post 
material. I have a local sawmill which can probably give me what I 
want but I wanted to check it out with some galoots who are much 
smarter than me. Is this material stable enough for workbench legs? 
Are there any other concerns I should have using the center portion of 
the tree? What does a sawmill usually do with this part of the tree? 
Is it waste? (Read that as, can I get it cheap?) Thanks for any 
input. 

Paul Gillespie

Paul G. is planning to make his workbench out of _thick_ oak:


> wrt the legs.  At first, I was going to glue up stock just like Mike 
> did.  Then I got to thinking of asking the sawyer for several lengths 
> of 6 inch square oak from the center portion of the tree.  This would 
> be the portion of the tree which usually goes into fence post 
> material.  I have a local sawmill which can probably give me what I 
> want but I wanted to check it out with some galoots who are much 
> smarter than me.  Is this material stable enough for workbench legs?  
> Are there any other concerns I should have using the center portion of 
> the tree?  What does a sawmill usually do with this part of the tree?  
> Is it waste? (Read that as, can I get it cheap?)  Thanks for any 
> input.  

The "center portion" of tree's contains the pith, and any board
with pith will split big-time as it dries.  You won't get dried thick stock
cheaply.  They generally don't saw hardwood to leave a "fence post" in the
middle - too much waste, especially of the quartersawn wood.  My 
local small sawyer cuts out the pith in a single 4/4 (quartersawn) board, 
then cuts out the pith to yield two nice boards.

I think the "fence posts" containing the pith that you're talking about
are cut mainly of SPF (spruce/pine/fir), probably from smallish trees.  I
also think you're more likely to find pith in posts from lower quality 
lumber yards.

BTW, most places around Phila. charge a very high premium (per BF) for thick
stock - often 2-3x the price / BF for 4/4.  That's supposedly due to the 
long, slow drying schedule required in the kiln to avoid splitting.  
You don't want to know how much I ended up paying for 12/4 (closer to 16/4)
red oak stock for legs for 2 beds last summer.

Tony Seo seems to know places in PA that sell thick green oak cheap, but I 
still wouldn't accept pieces containing the pith.  As far as the 
stability/usability of thick green oak, I'm skeptical, but Tony seems to 
have had success.

Regards,
Don Berry

Paul G and Don B are discussing the merits of thick vs laminated workbench
bases:


>BTW, most places around Phila. charge a very high premium (per BF) for thick
>stock - often 2-3x the price / BF for 4/4.  That's supposedly due to the
>long, slow drying schedule required in the kiln to avoid splitting.
>You don't want to know how much I ended up paying for 12/4 (closer to 16/4)
>red oak stock for legs for 2 beds last summer.

So, it appears that most design choose to use laminated construction for
their bases based solely on economics (and maybe availability of very thick
hardwood).  I guess another option is to search for beams from  old barns
and such.

I have edge glued, but have never face glued stock.  This appears to be a
pretty tricky task, considering that the boards are probably very slippery
with glue on them.  For those who have tried this (or even if you didn't)
are there any "tricks" for making this process easier (Mike W?)?

Joe Dolinar

Paul F Gillespie writes in response to what I wrote:

  > There's a local sawmill that had some 8/4 red oak, so I bought a
  > bunch, ripped it into 2x4s (true 2x4, not the junk houses are framed
  > with), and have glued them up into 4x4s (Excel glue).


> Then I got to thinking of asking the sawyer for several lengths 
> of 6 inch square oak from the center portion of the tree.  This would 
> be the portion of the tree which usually goes into fence post 
> material.



Well, I think it depends on the species. Seems to me that cherry has a
rather large and unstable pith (center) to it that can be a couple of
inches in diameter.

I don't think oak has such a large pith (walnut is small as well), and
might work ok. It will probably develop some cracks (like pine, PT 4x4s
do), but shouldn't affect the structural integrity much. Warpage might be
more of a concern if the pith didn't run down the center of the board.

One advantage to getting such timbers (if they are green), is that would
be well suited to drawbored M&T joints (except for the stretchers if you
ever wanted to disassemble the thing ;-)

You might be able to get them for a reduced price, or, if not, see if the
owner will saw some non-pith beams for you. It's worth asking. As my dad
always said: "If you don't ask, it's an automatic 'NO'."

I think I'd first inquire about thick timbers (3-4") of non-pith
content first, then check out the pith pieces.

That's just my uneducated guess.

Now, with the above said, I've purchased some walnut 4x6 pieces, some with
the pith, and after about 1.5 years of drying, they haven't
self-destructed. Some have warped a little, and there's some cracking, but
not as much as I would have expected. I bought these from the guy who
habitually advertises 'Central PA black walnut' in rec.norm for 80
cents/bf w/ 300 bf min. I was darned tempted to turn it into my bench for
the price.

Good luck,

	-Mike
 -----------------
Michael P. Weaver                                     Email: mikew@u...
Database Program Adminstrator 			      
Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's.

At 11:32 AM 2/28/97 -0500, Don Berry wrote:
>
>Tony Seo seems to know places in PA that sell thick green oak cheap, but I 
>still wouldn't accept pieces containing the pith.  As far as the 
>stability/usability of thick green oak, I'm skeptical, but Tony seems to 
>have had success.
>
It will shrink and it will check.  Most of the checking on the bench top is
limited to the first 6 inches on either end.  Mine needs a good scrub
planing and cleanup again.  Of course, first, I have to unbury it.

My local guy can, on special orders, dry to any size.  If some one is
interested, I can find out what he is getting for oak in the heavier widths.

Tony
  
___________________________________________________________________
	One is an interest
		Two is a collection
			Three is an obsession
___________________________________________________________________

On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Joseph Dolinar wrote:
> So, it appears that most design choose to use laminated construction for
> their bases based solely on economics (and maybe availability of very thick
> hardwood). 

In addition the the economic concerns, I have seen a bench design that
used laminated legs as a shortcut to create through mortises. Rather than
cutting a mortise through the laminated leg, the idea was to build up a
"mortise sandwich" by laminating three pieces of stock, leaving an
appropriate gap in the center layer. I wouldn't plan my entire bench
around this trick, but if you're laminating anyway, it might help.

I've got some 3x4" oak timbers air drying, which will eventually become
the legs of my bench, if I ever get around to building it. At 1 year
draing time per 1" thickness, looks like I'm right on schedule. 

> I have edge glued, but have never face glued stock.  This appears to be a
> pretty tricky task, considering that the boards are probably very slippery
> with glue on them.  For those who have tried this (or even if you didn't)
> are there any "tricks" for making this process easier (Mike W?)?

Cauls or dowels would help. Pinch dogs would probably be the most
Galootinous solution.  Best might be to leave a few inches extra length,
so you can drill and through-bolt the ends during glue-up. 

Kent
______________________________________________
Kent Fitzgerald           kentfitz@c...

Joe:

I was taught, and have always used, a trick for face gluing large pieces.
Drive 3-4, small finishing nails, depending on the size of the boards, on
one face of a piece and cut them to leave about 1/16" protruding above the
glue surface. It keeps the board from moving while clamping.

At 12:03 2/28/97 EST, Joseph Dolinar Wrote
[Snip]
ce glued stock.  This appears to be a
>pretty tricky task, considering that the boards are probably very slippery
>with glue on them.  For those who have tried this (or even if you didn't)
>are there any "tricks" for making this process easier (Mike W?)?
[Snip]

Dan Hogan 
    West Covina, CA
    dhhogan@l...

> 
> So, it appears that most design choose to use laminated construction for
> their bases based solely on economics (and maybe availability of very thick
> hardwood). I guess another option is to search for beams from old barns
> and such.
> 
> I have edge glued, but have never face glued stock. This appears to be a
> pretty tricky task, considering that the boards are probably very slippery
> with glue on them. For those who have tried this (or even if you didn't)
> are there any "tricks" for making this process easier (Mike W?)?
> 
> Joe Dolinar
> 
My bench, which I bougth from someone else, has legs made from
laminated 8/4 maple. THe legs are close to 3.5 x 3.5" in
cross section and you have to look closely to see the glue line.
The top is also laminated 8/4 maple. Flat sawn boards were ripped
and glued along their faces to make the top a quartersawn top.
You can see the glue lines, but it's really well done.
The guy that built the bench didn't report any problems gluing it
up. he does have a lot of clamps though.

I would say that working with this quantity of maple this way is
a task where the electronic apprentices will earn their keep.

Carl

Dan writes :

>I was taught, and have always used, a trick for face gluing large pieces.
>Drive 3-4, small finishing nails, depending on the size of the boards, on
>one face of a piece and cut them to leave about 1/16" protruding above the
>glue surface. It keeps the board from moving while clamping.

The nails should be placed near ends that can be cut off and burned.
I just realized a few minutes ago that I used this method for the four
laminated parts of my benchvise.  If I ever use these pieces of wood
for something else I'll have to deal with the fact that there are eight
finishing nails imbedded in every piece.

Paul P  (going down to mark this on the pieces before I forget)

Montreal (Quebec)

Joe Dolinar writes:

> I have edge glued, but have never face glued stock.  This appears to be
> a pretty tricky task, considering that the boards are probably very
> slippery with glue on them.  For those who have tried this (or even if
> you didn't) are there any "tricks" for making this process easier
> (Mike W?)?

I just spread the glue evenly, and clamped it. I did have to keep an eye
on things as I tightened the clamps, but other than that, I didn't use any
tricks. The sliding wasn't that bad with Excel (poly) glue.

The worst joint had one side about 1/16" off, but I had made the boards
large enough so that I had some leeway. After gluing, planing to size
wasn't tough. I trimmed to length after gluing.

Maybe I just got lucky?

I guess I'll find out when I try to do the benchtop the same way...

	-Mike

-----------------
Michael P. Weaver                                     Email: mikew@u...
Database Program Adminstrator 			     
Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's.

Interesting thread on workbenches....I'm gettin' set to build as well, and have 
  wondered what would be wrong with 3-4 1/2" threaded rods buried internally in 
  the benchtop?   I'm planning to build a bigun' ... a 3x8 footer,... dog holes 
and end vises on both sides.... there would be just over 2' of laminated top bet
ween dog holes....   you could match drill (i.e., use one board for a drill temp
late)   all 12+ center boards, and just start adding boards using clamps plus th
e   threaded rods which would serve both as clamps and as assembly guides thus  
 leaving out nails and excess length.   in the end, the threaded rod portion wou
ld just be buried beneath the final laminations.   Is this a crass deviation fro
m purist Neanderthal thought?   or why isn't this a   good idea.   My old bench 
(Swedish style) has threaded rod in two directions!   Of course it's hand forged
 and hand threaded, but gee.....

Tom Johnson.... a new galoot recruit

On Feb 28, 15:47, Mike Weaver wrote: 

Joe Dolinar writes: 

 I have edge glued, but have never face glued stock.   This appears to be a pret
ty tricky task, considering that the boards are probably very slippery with glue
 on them.   For those who have tried this (or even if you didn't) are there any 
"tricks" for making this process easier (Mike W?)?  I just spread the glue evenl
y, and clamped it. I did have to keep an eye on things as I tightened the clamps
, but other than that, I didn't use any tricks. The sliding wasn't that bad with
 Excel (poly) glue. 

The worst joint had one side about 1/16" off, but I had made the boards large en
ough so that I had some leeway. After gluing, planing to size wasn't tough. I tr
immed to length after gluing. 

Maybe I just got lucky? 

I'm inclined to think so, or maybe you're just better than you give yourself cre
dit for...   :-)

I've just did this too.   Some thoughts:

1)   don't try to face join more than 2 pieces at once.   I did three,
and keeping the middle one in line is a bitch. 

2)   you need a mess o' clamps.   I used something like 8 clamps on
a 3 foot length, and it likely would have been better with more.

3)   use cauls to spread the clamping force.

4)   have some extra hands around to help with keeping everything
in line, holding the cauls in place, tightening the clamps, et al.

5)   allow something extra in the width department, so you can
fix it if things do come disaligned in clamping (gotta admit I got more than 1/1
6th offset - fortunately I was working with some leftovers, and I decided to glu
e 'em up as-is, rather than cutting close to width first.   Lucky choice   :-)

John

-- 

John McCoy                                mccoy@p...
                                          excp01@e...
Motorola Inc Radio Products Group
8000 W Sunrise Blvd Plantation FL 33322

Tom asks :

>Interesting thread on workbenches....I'm gettin' set to build as well, 
>and have 
>wondered what would be wrong with 3-4 1/2" threaded rods buried 
>internally in 
>the benchtop?

When the humidity rises, three feet wide of wood is going to 
expand, whether or not steel bolts are restricting certain 
cylindrical (conical ?-) parts of it.  These'll get crushed
or something, then next winter all the nuts'll be loose.
                              [so that's what happened !]

Certainly a possible way of clamping during assembly.  I've
seen rods mentioned so many places, but I just can't see how
they can contribute anything but a bit of weight (and a lot
of drilling).

Paul P

Montreal (Quebec)

> Joseph Dolinar wrote:
> 
> Also, I have a question about workbench bases.  I've always assumed that
> they would be constructed out of 4x4 stock.  But I have been seeing many
> designs which laminates 4/4 stock to build up the thickness.  I have never
> seen a discussion regarding the pros/cons of 4x4 vs laminated bases.
> Anyone have any insights they can give me?

I use laminated stock all the time in furniture.  If you even make a cursory
attempt at matching grain you'll never see the line.  Use a wide paint
brush or a 4" paint roller to spread the glue then use every clamp in
the shop, plus a few borrowed from a neighbor.

However, Pennsylvannia is full of farms.  Check the lumber section of your
local "Trader" type rag to see if anyone is selling old barn beams.  A
few months back I bought some old hand-hewn red oak, white oak, ash, and
pine beams for under pennies per board foot.  It's a lot of work to resaw
and thickness them, but it's hard to beat that price on thick stock.  The
beams I got aren't worth a damn as furniture lumber - they're full of worm
holes, but I think they add a bit of charm to bench legs (which is what I
used one of the beams for).  You can see pictures on my home page.

-- 
Scott Post   spost@n...
http://www.netusa1.net/~spost/woodwork.html

Scott wrote:

>However, Pennsylvannia is full of farms.  Check the lumber section of your
>local "Trader" type rag to see if anyone is selling old barn beams.  A
>few months back I bought some old hand-hewn red oak, white oak, ash, and
>pine beams for under pennies per board foot.  It's a lot of work to resaw
>and thickness them, but it's hard to beat that price on thick stock.  The
>beams I got aren't worth a damn as furniture lumber - they're full of worm
>holes, but I think they add a bit of charm to bench legs (which is what I
>used one of the beams for).  You can see pictures on my home page.

I heartily second that motion.  A few years ago I built a timber frame
style base for one of my normite contraptions because the original steel
model was too flimsy.  I had a friend that had dozens of beams that he
rescued from a barn that was being dismantled and picked up half a dozen in
the 6X6 to 8X8 range.

After getting them back to the shop, I realized that they were chesnut!
What a blast it was working with this now extinct wood.  Planed like
poplar, had a consistency of oak and was about as dense as maple.  The
biggest challenge was getting all the nails out of the pieces that were
used as joists.  I ended up just planing them on my join*er which was
outfitted with carbide tipped knives because some of the nails were too
brittle to pull out.  Well worth the effort.

In addition, once you've worked with chesnut, you'll be able to immediately
differentiate it from oak there after.

Pete Taran

___________________________________________________________________________

Pete Taran
29951 State Route 26
Theresa, NY  13691

Coproprietor of Independence Tool, makers of high quality vintage
handtools.  Check out our webpage at http://www.intool.com

___________________________________________________________________________

"John McCoy" mccoy@p... writes:
On Feb 28, 15:47, Mike Weaver wrote:
 > > Maybe I just got lucky? [with only 1/6" off]

> I'm inclined to think so, or maybe you're just better than you
> give yourself credit for...   :-)

Thanks! (I'll still call it luck unless it happens with the top too! ;-)

> 1)  don't try to face join more than 2 pieces at once.  I did three,
> and keeping the middle one in line is a bitch.

Good point. My pieces were 'in halves', so I had only 2 to deal with.
I plan on gluing up the top in a similar fashion. 2 pieces at a time to
build up sections. Then, I'll glue each section to another section, etc.

> 2)  you need a mess o' clamps.  I used something like 8 clamps on
> a 3 foot length, and it likely would have been better with more.

That's about what I used. (combo of Quick Grips and pipe clamps)



Eventually, I'll get around to developing the pictures of the base in
progress, and maybe even get them on a web site...item #1045 on the
'to-do' list ;-)

	-Mike

-----------------
Michael P. Weaver                                     Email: mikew@u...
Database Program Adminstrator 			      
Center for Health Program Development and Management, UMBC, Baltimore,MD 21250
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine, and not my employer's.

At 10:30 AM -0500 3/1/97, ironmger@n... wrote:

>After getting them back to the shop, I realized that they were chesnut!
>What a blast it was working with this now extinct wood.

Ahh, Pete, thanks you just sent a flood of memories (and emotions) though
the thing I call a brain.

I _KNOW_ of _ONE_ Chestnut still standing and thriving.
It is in a town called Riverside, RI. (that is near the ocean, Jeff)
the tree is doing quite well, thankyouvewrymuch.
the treee is examined ever year by some tree-hugger group,
I want to say it is the National Audobon Society, but that is probly
wrong......

>skip the rest of the message if you wish, I'm gonna wax some poetic now>

It is in the back yard of Mr. George Lenninton Bandel's home.

(the greatest man that I ever had the pleasure of meeting, I hope to one
day be half the human being he was, (no shit!>) some of you may have heard
me speak of him before.

Now Mr Bandel was my Shop teacher as well as a British and American Lit
teacher back when I was in Boarding(Prep) School in Barrington, RI. he had
a HUGE impact on my life.
He is more responsible for making me the person I am today than anyone else
(save the fact that may parents concieved me, ya know....)
I spent may a fine Sun afternoon at his house listening to classical music
"shooting the shit"and getting the crud kicked out of me in cribbage.

Well, when he moved to RI from Palenville NY (that's in the Cattskill
Mtn's, Jeff)
he was looking at varios houses, when he looked at this house he(he says)
he hated it!
but when he looked a tthe back yard he saw a standing, thriving Chestnut
three and decided he MUST but this house to preserve that tree! (so the
story goes).

Anyway, back in 1984, I was looking at some squirrels up in the tree
(actully sighting one up in my sling-shot) I noticed a chestunt on a
branch. I aked "B" (that's what we all called him) about it, he looked at
it and walked into the house and called that tree hugger gropup.
the next day they were there taking picture of the pod, etc. a few months
later they sent someone out there to "harvest" that nut.

I came to find out that that they wanted it to do some genetic testing on
it to find out why this tree was immune to the disease that killed all the
others and to try to propogate and clone it! I dunno if hey were sucessfull
or not.

Okay lots of line to say:  they IS an American-Chestnut Tree alive in the US.
and by now, probly a whole farm of them growing in irraditead hydoponic
chemical soup under the careful guard of agents Scully and Moulder (we can
only hope!)

> Planed like poplar, had a consistency of oak and was about as dense as
>maple.

I truly envy you!

L8r,
John

There are quite   a few American Chestnut trees growing around the North East   
and upper mid-West.   My experience growing up on a farm in Eastern Ohio in the 
  
50's and 60's was that the trees would grow until they had yielded nuts a couple
 of years and then die from the blight.   At that stage they would be 6 -   

8 inches in diameter at the base and maybe 30 feet tall.   Very occasionally one
 would live past that.   Smithsonian magazine had an article on the effort to   
regenerate them a few years ago.   
I harvested one of the larger dead ones on the home farm in the 80's and made a 
Shaker wall clock from it.   Wood looks great.   Grain reminds you of white oak 
  
a little.   Works like stringy butternut.   Has a bad tendency to dent easily bu
t   takes a finish very well. 
      George

---------------------- Forwarded by George Wallace/MJT Inc. on 03/01/97 04:42 PM
 
---------------------------

	MIME:john @ GUNTERMAN.MV.COM
	03/01/97 03:06 PM
To: -:ironmger @ northnet.org@INTERNET, -:oldtools @ 
listserv.law.cornell.edu@INTERNET, George Wallace
cc:  
Subject: Re: Bio: Joe Dolinar
Much deleted (and spell checked, John :-)
At 10:30 AM -0500 3/1/97, ironmger@n... wrote:

I _KNOW_ of _ONE_ Chestnut still standing and thriving. It is in a town called R
iverside, RI. (that is near the ocean, Jeff) the tree is doing quite well, thank
 you very much the tree is examined ever year by some tree-hugger group, I want 
to say it is the National Audobon Society, but that is probably wrong......

Anyway, back in 1984, I was looking at some squirrels up in the tree (actually s
ighting one up in my sling-shot) I noticed a chestnut on a branch. I asked "B" (
that's what we all called him) about it, he looked at it and walked into the hou
se and called that tree hugger group. the next day they were there taking pictur
e of the pod, etc. a few months later they sent someone out there to "harvest" t
hat nut.

I came to find out that that they wanted it to do some genetic testing on it to 
find out why this tree was immune to the disease that killed all the others and 
to try to propagate and clone it! I dunno if hey were successful or not.

Okay lots of line to say:   they IS an American-Chestnut Tree alive in the US. a
nd by now, probably a whole farm of them growing in irradiated hydoponic chemica
l soup under the careful guard of agents Scully and Moulder (we can only hope!)

 Planed like poplar, had a consistency of oak and was about as dense as maple. 

I truly envy you!

L8r, 
John

> After getting [the beams] back to the shop, I realized that they were
> chesnut! What a blast it was working with this now extinct wood.

Not to pick nits (or nuts), but chestnut is not extinct.  In its native
range, I've read that the tree gets a few years old before the blight
hits it.  The article in "FWW on Wood" has more details.

Outside of its native range, like here in Oregon, there are still chestnut
trees that drop enough nuts to be harvested.  Several of them are on one of
route where I ride my bike, and are quite noticeable in the fall due to the
messy nuts and shells all over the road.