OldTools Archive
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253254 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
>From: Christopher Swingley >Bob, >On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:47 AM, RH Hutchins |
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253256 | Christopher Swingley <cswingle@s...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
David, On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 9:35 AM, David Nighswander |
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253257 | JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
I have used a lot of come-alongs. I have always hated the ones with a cable. Never tired one with rope, but it sounds reasonable. I own a couple of chain models, Chisolm-Moore, and they are excellent. On Jan 28, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Christopher Swingley |
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253259 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
>From: James Thompson >I have used a lot of come-alongs. I have always hated the ones with a cable. Never tired one >with rope, but it sounds reasonable. > I own a couple of chain models, Chisolm-Moore, and they are excellent. I agree Jim the cable pullers especially the inexpensive hardware store kind are less than useful. I do have to mention that most of the cable pullers that I struggled with were garage sale pieces. 40 years ago I used Yale chain model come alongs at the Midwest Foundry. They were excellent. I don't recall ever breaking one. If I were flush I would own a couple of Yale come alongs now. I probably won’t own a More Power Puller either for similar reasons. The rope instead of chain or cable is interesting because of the weight reduction compared to chain, no fish hooks like in the cable, and being able to have 30 feet of pull. In a real world comparison those old Yale units were in the dirt, sparks, and heat every day. You couldn’t pull hard enough to break the chain because the clutch would slip. That was in the days before straps were common and nearly every sling was chain. Having to lug around two come alongs, four lengths of three eighths log chain, and a 20 foot ladder would kill me now. Even if I didn’t have a cigarette hanging out of the corner of my mouth while doing it. Christopher Swingley wrote: >One of the things I really like about the rope winch I used is that the rope only loops through it >so you can pull the full length of whatever length rope you're using. I’ve never used one of those but the extra length letting you pull without re- rigging would be a big advantage for jobs like your bridge placement. Dave N. aka Old Sneelock |
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253260 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On Jan 28, 2015, at 3:46 PM, David Nighswander |
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253264 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Sent from Windows Mail From: Ed Minch On Jan 28, 2015, at 3:46 PM, David Nighswander |
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253266 | Ed Minch <ruby@m...> | 2015‑01‑28 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
Dave That is great stuff, and racing sailors use it for a lot things. You would like to have 7/16 or 1/2” material to make it easy to get your hands around, and 1/2" Amsteel is $3.50 a foot as opposed to a good 3 strand at 30¢ to $1 foot. Plus it doesn’t like sunlight Ed Minch On Jan 28, 2015, at 5:37 PM, David Nighswander |
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253284 | george@g... | 2015‑01‑29 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On getting a heavy object to go uphill without an anchor point at the top of the hill: Lever the heavy object (e.g. a safe) onto a couple of long planks extending to the top of the hill (a.k.a. inside of the truck). Anchor the winch at the far end of the planks; commence pulling. One can make sure the safe doesn't slide off the planks by building a saddle around the safe, after it's on the planks, with some two-by-fours and lag screws (oldtools content: use a brace & bit to bore the pilot holes and drive the screws ...). On the breakage of come-alongs: "Modern" ones have a built-in safety mechanism: The main lever simply bends when you've overdone it. Of course, that usually leaves the load stranded, so to speak. Cheap bottle jacks are similar: that flimsy little telescopic tubular handle collapses when one pushes too hard. The designers may even have anticipated the substitution of a stronger handle such as a tire iron: then the pump's frame collapses. On Christopher's A-frame and its over-center transport mechanism: I once had a consulting job involving what was claimed to be the breakage of a chain binder (classic over-center mechanism). The opposing side calculated the force on the binder when it was "this close" to the over-center position and got sufficient force to break the thing. [In actuality, they measured the force to break the binder and then worked backwards ...] Of course, starting from zero load (i.e., loose chain) one can't get there from here without the help of a gorilla and a ten foot long cheater pipe, which I proved with the use of two tensile testing machines working in tandem ... and also by doing the math. That was fun, and I didn't even have to use the defendant manufacturer's chain binder ... a different one that I got at the local hardware store. Plaintiff's expert agreed with me ... that was even more fun. George Langford, who somehow managed to make some chuck springs yesterday in his unheated shed in SE PA by guessing the right mandrel size, wire size, and number of turns, all on the first try. |
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253285 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2015‑01‑29 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
george@g... wrote: > > "Modern" ones have a built-in safety mechanism: The main lever simply bends when you've overdone it. On a loosely related theme, on a well designed vise, the length and strength of the handle is designed to NOT allow a normal human to destroy the vise. This is sort of obvious (at least in hindsight, or when you finally think about it consciously), but was bought home to me when I acquired a high quality forged-steel vise (not cast iron). The handle was, by cast iron standards, disproportionately both in length and strength. This merely tells us that the vise is "quite robust" Of course, all this careful design work can be circumvented by a fool with a cheater bar. BugBear |
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253286 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑29 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
From: paul womack >>george@g... wrote: >> >> "Modern" ones have a built-in safety mechanism: The main lever simply bends when you've overdone it. >On a loosely related theme, on a well designed vise, the length >and strength of the handle is designed to NOT allow a normal >human to destroy the vise. > >Of course, all this careful design work >can be circumvented by a fool with a cheater bar. If only the world was made for us abnormal humans. As a much younger man I ended up rebuilding and riding Harley Davidson motorcycles. The 1940 thru 1956 models that came into my possession were made with castings brazed to tubing. Because I was spending a great deal of time and MONEY at Balance Harley Davidson in Battle Creek, MI, I got to know the owner. He told me that the reason the frames were so heavy was that Harley Davidson followed a rule. If it breaks double it. As a 5’ tall 150 lb kid I knew that with a 9” long 9/16” box end wrench I could pull as hard as I wanted and not break a 3/8 bolt. At 6’1” and just shy of 300 lbs I have to pay attention to over tightening. As an engineer I found that it was necessary to equip the assembly line with torque limiting drivers that stopped driving and free wheeled when it reached max torque. The operators had a bad habit of giving the bolt just a bit more after it seated and the old clicker wrench clicked. A 1/4-20 grade 8 bolt snaps at approx. 16 foot lbs of torque. (I personally broke 100 of them to establish the base line.) Prior to installing the new wrenches we had a crew of two trained people using a tap burner to remove broken bolts. People will be people. I managed to twist the drive shaft on a bush hog in two. 1. I was using a 5’ diameter bush hog to cut 6’ tall grass and wild rose bushes. 2. I had the bush hog connected to an 8N tractor that had been upgraded to a 6 cylinder engine. The resulting horsepower went from 30 to 95. 3. Some time in the distant past a previous owner operator had grown tired of replacing the shear pin and replaced it with a grade 8 bolt. Fortunately the driveshaft was light enough that it failed before the PTO shaft did. |
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253294 | JAMES THOMPSON <oldmillrat@m...> | 2015‑01‑29 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On Jan 29, 2015, at 6:21 AM, David Nighswander |
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253295 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑29 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
>From: James Thompson > Aha, says I, the old millwright, the drive shear pin is broken on the drive. So I opened it >up and replaced the broken shear pin, and all was right with the lathe again. And this was >considered to be miraculous. Not everyone is trained to know how machinery functions. And it’s men and women like you that keep us from living in the forest hunting for bugs. As long as you are willing to teach, the skills won’t be lost. That’s really a good thing cause I’ve eaten far to many bugs from my motorcycle days. Dave N. aka Old Sneelock |
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253303 | Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
I've spent some time looking around old mines and logging shows where men did a lot of hard work and didn't think anything about it, but the one that I am always amazed about was a gear I stumbled across along the Chilkoot Trail. The Chilkoot was one of the major routes into the Klondike during the gold rush days. The Mounties required prospectors to bring 2000 pounds of supplies with them before they would be allowed to enter Canada. They didn't want a bunch of Cheechakos to nursemaid although they ended up doing a lot of that anyhow. One of the tough spots along a tough trail was the Golden Stairs, a steep pitch up to Chilkoot Pass - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Miners_climb_C hilkoot.jpg/1280px-Miners_climb_Chilkoot.jpg">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe dia/commons/thumb/4/40/Miners_climb_Chilkoot.jpg/1280px- Miners_climb_Chilkoot.jpg A lot of packers made more carrying loads up to the pass than digging for gold. Some years ago I hiked the trail from Dyea to Bennett Lake and it wasn't unusual to still find items cast off by the horde. The one that amazed me was a cast iron gear. We were 10's of miles from tide water when we came upon the gear sitting in the woods, probably part of one of the several tramways that were built to ease the passage over the pass. This wasn't just a gear; it was a GEAR!, maybe 6" thick and about as many feet in diameter. I have no idea what a chunk of cast iron that size weighs, but a lot more than the load I was carrying. I have tried to image how that piece of iron got to where it sits now, but it must have taken a fair amount of effort over uniformly bad trails. I am not aware of any sort of a "road" that followed that route and spots along the trail there today wouldn't pass anything much wider than a mule. Maybe one of these days I'll hear the rest of the story. Phil On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:21 AM, David Nighswander < wishingstarfarm663@m...> wrote: > >From: James Thompson > > > > > Aha, says I, the old millwright, the drive shear pin is broken on the > drive. So I opened it >up and replaced the broken shear pin, and all was > right with the lathe again. And this was >considered to be miraculous. Not > everyone is trained to know how machinery functions. > > And it’s men and women like you that keep us from living in the forest > hunting for bugs. > As long as you are willing to teach, the skills won’t be lost. > That’s really a good thing cause I’ve eaten far to many bugs from my > motorcycle days. > > Dave N. > > aka Old Sneelock > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > http://old tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > http://swingleydev.com/archi ve/faq.html > > OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/ > > OldTools@s... > http://old tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > |
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253323 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑30 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
>From: james duprie Lifting the extra distance to get to the truck bed involved a lot of adding blocks, tilting, adding more blocks etc until it is the right height, then sliding it into the truck (probably need rollers to move it forward to the nose anyway). In order to keep it stable, I'd need a lot of good sized blocking (or custom made supports), and still end up having to roll it to the truck (about 80 feet). It just seems like the whole thing will be easier of its done with rollers all the way... (the object is about 65" wide by 50" long by about 48" tall) Of course, I guess I could just rent a power pallet jack, but that wouldn't >be any fun.... I apologize. I missed your point completely. With the opportunity to built a contraption for lifting and moving such a mysterious object clearly defined then by all means bring on the timbers. By building a structure with a sloping ramp leading up to a platform mounted on 4 pivoting legs the loading might be accomplished by creating a windlass with sufficient cordage to reach from the rear mounted windlass under the frame of the lifting device to a block mounted on the front of the platform. The cordage can then be run back to the load and secured either with straps, slings, or a secure dovetailed frame system around the base of the object. Through the use of the windlass the load can be winched onto the platform. After the load has been brought on board the platform, the block can be remounted to the front of the base frame and the cordage attached to the front of the platform. Winching the front of the platform will cause it to raise up on the 4 pivoting legs similar to the A Frame that Chris moved the bridge beam with. Once the platform is raised and before the cordage can be removed from the block and attached to a dead man anchor point, the lifting platform should have the pivoting legs braced and pinned. With the platform secure the cordage can be attached to the dead man buried in an appropriate location for drawing the load to the truck. The windlass can again be used either straight pull or with the block in place to double the tackle and increase the pulling power of the device to pull the lifting structure over a set of rails, skids, caterpillar tracks, or laid stone highway until it reaches the back of the truck. With the lifting platform in the raised position, and the load in position, the cordage and block can be rigged to pass through two blocks. One on either side at the front of the platform. With the blocks attached to the front of the platform the cordage can be routed through the blocks and attached to the rear of the load using a dual sling to allow the load to pass between the blocks on the platform. Now the windlass can be used to draw the load onto the bed of the vehicle. In the event that the load needs to be moved to the nose of the truck, and the truck bed is longer than the object, appropriate length extensions can be added to the rear of the platform and braced securely. With the extensions in place the cordage can be affixed to the end of the extensions and the windlass again used to drive the load into the bed of the vehicle. At which point all the assembly can be disassembled and either loaded with the object or stored for the next adventure in lifting. With a few trips to the local saw mill for timbers, the appropriate timber framing tools, and a bit of assistance from the porch as to proper cordage and windlass operation the task of building the device should comfortably fill the two years prior to the event. Haste makes waste. With a little luck there may be enough fallen timber in the area to have the timbers milled from. Dave N. aka Old Sneelock - who loves to design huge projects for others to accomplish. |
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253325 | Michael Suwczinsky <nicknaylo@g...> | 2015‑01‑31 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:47 AM, paul womack |
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253329 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2015‑01‑31 | Re: Lifting heavy things |
>From: Michael Suwczinsky > >This merely tells us that the vise is "quite robust" >This explains the huge handle on my big (60 lb) post vise, and the large >forged balls on either end, to keep the cheater pipe off the handle! The vise with the large balls is safe in your shop because you understand what they are for. At the foundry the Maintenance Dept had a pipe wrench with a 6’ long handle that was bent because someone (never knew who because they never did say) put a pipe on the end of the handle. I was taught that If you use an 18” pipe wrench to tighten you can loosen with a 24”. Must be they tightened the pipe with the 6’ wrench and didn’t have a bigger one to loosen it. During my interview tour of the United Technologies Aluminum Extrusion Plant I noticed a 4’ pipe wrench attached to an hydraulic cylinder and anchored in place with a chain binder. After I took the job as Maintenance Engineer/Supervisor it was explained that the cylinder kept coming loose so they tied it down. Not every person in the world is safe around tools. The ones that aren’t are seldom deterred from their ways by common sense. As God is my witness one of the men working for me (who shall remain nameless) cut off an I Beam while he was standing on it. I had to make out the accident report. Dave N. aka Old Sneelock ”Jack (not his name) get away from that wheelborrow. You know you don’t know nothing about no chinery.” |
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