Ed Minch asked:
> 
>> > How do you use that miter(re) jack? Looks like its backwards

I replied:

>> Well, I clamp the stock between the jaws, then plane the approximate
>> 45 to a more accurate angle. The only time I've seen one in use was
>> on Roy's show. I like to look down the ramp face as I'm planing, but
>> could well have something backwards :). Mine is still set up for
>> clamping in a face vise, and I've not fixed that yet.

Darrell LaRue then wrote:

> I keep seeing people advocating the use of PLANES with mitre jacks.
> Even Roy Underhill does it.

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2800/2803.html

That episode is where I learned that a mitre jack existed, and how it
might be employed (@ 17:45 minutes in).

> Matt Turner (former Galoot and builder of skinny boats) once showed me
> how he uses a mitre jack: with a really big paring chisel.  The long, wide,
> massive (and dead flat) blade registers on the face of the jaws, and you
> > simply slice off whatever sticks up.  It will not bite into the jaws, so no 
need
> for paper or tape for protection.

This would work well, if my wide chisel actually had a flat back :).
Good catch on the tape; I use blue masking tape and plane until I hit it,
which is easier than gluing cardboard on as some advocate.

I've also seen articles discussing the use of a saw with a mitre jack,
and claiming a French origin for the tool:

http://theparttimewoodworker.blogspot.com/2010/08/saw-that-never-was.html

http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters/Woodworking/5/5/collection.htm

The idea is that you saw first, then finish with a mitre plane.  The
saw shown in the photos looks perfect for this purpose, and I'd really
like to find or make one.

Are there any other ways to use these things?  Any other galoots who have
made and/or used one of these want to weigh in?

-- 
Adam, sometimes backwards in Port Angeles WA

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 7/13/2011 9:35 PM, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:
>  I've also seen articles discussing the use of a saw with a
> mitre jack, and claiming a French origin for the tool:
>
> http://theparttimewoodworker.blogspot.com/2010/08/saw-that-never-
> was.html
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters/Woodworking/5/5/collection.htm
>
> The idea is that you saw first, then finish with a mitre plane. The
> saw shown in the photos looks perfect for this purpose, and I'd really
> like to find or make one.
>
> Are there any other ways to use these things? Any other galoots who
> have made and/or used one of these want to weigh in?
>
Interesting to see the mitre jack used with the working surface
horizontal. That explains the unequal length legs on the example
illustrated by LV. Apparently the short legs sit on the bench, while the
longer ones hang over the front edge of the bench in the manner of a
bench hook. Although I'd seen the LV photos, I hadn't sussed that out
until now.

I don't have a mitre jack and have never used one: I've never seen one
in the wild, and haven't found the time to try and make one. Sigh...
However, I do have a saw somewhat suited to that sort of work, on a
small scale at least, and I think it MAY have come from LV. My
spreadsheet says it's a double-edged flush cutting saw, and I paid $18
for in 1993. I have used it a few times to cut pegs roughly flush to a
finish surface, before paring or planing, and it worked well for that
purpose. Also for trimming around doors to accommodate new flooring.
Alternating teeth on both edges have no set at all. Those that are set,
are all set in the same direction - namely up toward the handle, which
is attached to the blade by screws through the saw plate, the latter
being only about 6 X 3 inches. The max depth of cut is just over 1 inch.
So this is a baby version of the mitre saw in those photos, and it might
work OK with small stuff on a mitre jack, but I may never know... I
expect it's actually a trim saw, and probably a common tradesman's tool,
being roughly made and unfinished. It has no maker's mark, though I seem
to recall it was made in France. Photos here:

http://galootcentral.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=2&pl-
ace=displayimage&album=594&pos http://tinyurl.com/639ux3m

Don

--
I hear, and I imagine; I see, and I understand; I do, and I remember
forever. from R.A. Salaman, Dictionary of Woodworking Tools

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ggs: I used a mitre jack with a plane for a good while, but then I got
a guillotine mitre trimmer (just like a Pootatuck but made by his brother-in-
law, I believe) can't recall the maker's name---anyway, I sold the
mitre jack last August at the Best in the West PNTC extravagoonza and a
guy from Lee Valley bought it. I can't remember his name either, but he
told me all the old time guys used paring chisels, on account of the
plane cutting in to the jaws doing it my way. My way was to send the
work through the jaws a little more than I wanted to plane off; I used
a mitre plane, and practically never hit the jaws. They'd been hit
before I got it, plenty, but it still worked fine for me. Since using
such a tool is art, not science, you can do it with a roller or a
brush, so to speak, and if you're building your own mitre hack (how
hard can it be?) you can be the boss of how it's utilized. I do *like*
the idea of paring with the work held suchlike, but it never occurred
to me. best to all---gammage If you were Einstein's father, we wouldn't
have the bomb." Peggy Hill

--- On Wed, 7/13/11, Adam R. Maxwell  wrote:

> From: Adam R. Maxwell  Subject: [OldTools] mitre jack
> usage (was Re: mutant workbench) To: "oldtools porch" 
> Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 8:35 PM Ed Minch asked:
> >> >> > How do you use that miter(re) jack? Looks
> like its backwards
>> I replied:
>> >> Well, I clamp the stock between the jaws, then
> plane the approximate
> >> 45 to a more accurate angle. The only time I've
> seen one in use was
> >> on Roy's show. I like to look down the ramp face
> as I'm planing, but
> >> could well have something backwards :). Mine is
> still set up for
> >> clamping in a face vise, and I've not fixed that
> yet.
>> Darrell LaRue then wrote:
>> > I keep seeing people advocating the use of PLANES with
> mitre jacks.
> > Even Roy Underhill does it.
>> http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2800/2803.html That episode
>> is where I learned that a mitre jack existed,
> and how it might be employed (@ 17:45 minutes in).
>> > Matt Turner (former Galoot and builder of skinny
> boats) once showed me
> > how he uses a mitre jack: with a really big paring
> chisel.=A0 The long, wide,
> > massive (and dead flat) blade registers on the face of
> the jaws, and you
> > simply slice off whatever sticks up.=A0 It will not
> bite into the jaws, so no need
> > for paper or tape for protection.
>> This would work well, if my wide chisel actually had a flat
> back :). Good catch on the tape; I use blue masking tape and plane
> until I hit it, which is easier than gluing cardboard on as some
> advocate.
>> I've also seen articles discussing the use of a saw with a
> mitre jack, and claiming a French origin for the tool:
>> http://theparttimewoodworker.blogspot.com/2010/08/saw-that-never-
>> was.html http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters/Woodworking/5/5/col-
>> lection.htm The idea is that you saw first, then finish with a mitre
> plane.=A0 The saw shown in the photos looks perfect for this purpose,
> and I'd really like to find or make one.
>> Are there any other ways to use these things?=A0 Any
> other galoots who have made and/or used one of these want to weigh in?
>> --> Adam, sometimes backwards in Port Angeles WA
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/ OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crawling out from under the porch and dusting myself off...

I made a different type of mitre jack a few years ago when I was making some
furniture with triple miter joints.  Wiktor was kind enough to host my story
about this on his website:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/art/miterJack/miterJack-1.asp

This worked really well and I don't think I could have gotten these joints
to fit properly without it.

For the last couple of years I have been working on building bamboo fly
rods.  Just finished my fifth one and I feel like I am still on the steep
part of the learning curve.  I've gotten to the point where I can enjoy
using them for fishing, but still have a ways to go before I could ever
charge money for one.

The assembled bamboo rod has a hexagonal cross section and is made of 6
strips which have an equilateral triangle section.  The grooved block plane
used for planing these on the steel form has a groove which is 0.003 inches
deep.  This allows the plane to be used on the form without planing into the
surface of the form.  I only use this plane for the final passes, using a
Stanley #18 for taking off most of the material to that point.  A key point
about using the grooved plane for this application is that the groove must
be wider than the strip which is being planed.  I don't know that this would
be the case when using a grooved plane on a miter jack?  This restriction
would limit the stock to be less than about 2/3 the width of the plane sole.

Best Regards,
Ted, who is still around, just not speaking up very often.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:50 AM, gary may wrote:

>  do *like* the idea of paring with the work held suchlike, but it  
> never
> occurred to me.

Fly rod makers use a block plane with a groove rabetted down the  
center of the length of the bed.  They use a metal tapering jig that  
is very clever that allows them to make the hexagonal pieces that glue  
into the rod sections and make them tapered in a controlled fashion.   
The sole of the plane rides on the jig, while the rabetted part planes  
the piece - the blade never touches the jig.  How about a #3 or #4  
sized plane with a 1/16" or so groove down the length of the sole for  
the same purpose on a miter jack.  Better minds than I have looked at  
this for centuries, and I have never used a miter jack, but, hey, I'm  
just sayin'.

Ed Minch

------------------------------------------------------------------------

::  -----Original Message-----
::  From: oldtools-bounces@r...
::  [mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...]On Behalf Of Adam R.
::  Maxwell
::  Sent: 14 July 2011 04:35
::  To: oldtools porch
::  Subject: [OldTools] mitre jack usage (was Re: mutant workbench)
::
::
::  Ed Minch asked:

Are there any other ways to use these things?  Any other galoots who have
made and/or used one of these want to weigh in?

Yes, I've written a couple of articles in which I've adapted a cramp head to
make one suitable for smallish jobs.

It would take some time to prepare it for my website, but for fellow galoots
who would like to download a couple of pdfs less then 300kb each, I'be be
glad to email them to anyone who cares to email me.

Jeff
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
http://www.amgron.clara.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Ed Minch  wrote:

> Good point.  Could we add a small extension to both sides of the plane -
> like a thin piece of wood clamped to each cheek - for the plane to ride on
> the jack?  I am picturing a 1/16" piece of flat steel just smaller than the
> plane sole sitting on another flat piece, then clamping a piece of 3/8
> hardwood onto each cheek so that it fully contacts the lower piece of steel.
>  Too much trouble - like GAM says - just be careful.
>
> Ed Minch
>
> Ed, This does sound pretty complicated and it would not allow the use of a
shoulder plane to work right up to an edge on the piece to be mitered.  I
found that I needed to use a shoulder plane to square the joints in my
triple miter tenons.  See the second to the last photo of my story on
Wiktor's site.

I did occasionally gouge into the surface of my mitre jack with the plane
while making my joints, but it really isn't a problem until you mangle it
sufficiently to mess up the geometry.  Even then, it is not too difficult to
bring it back with a few minutes of careful planing of the surface.

Regards,
Ted
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Ed--- I once saw in "Smithsonian" magazine, I believe, an article
about Hoagy Carmichael, Junior, who does that---builds split bamboo fly
rods and works them as you describe. This particular article had some
seriously detailed close photos of the bench and the process. That would
be pretty light work, the 'timbers' weighing a couple of pounds apiece,
and the jointer plane being a #60 1/2, or a #65--- what a wonderful world---
gam off to work in OlyWA

If you were Einstein's father, we wouldn't have the bomb." Peggy Hill

--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Ed Minch  wrote:

> From: Ed Minch  Subject: Re: [OldTools] mitre jack usage
> (was Re: mutant workbench) To: "gary may" 
> Cc: "oldtools porch" , "Adam R. Maxwell"
>      Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 5:14 AM
>> On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:50 AM, gary may wrote:
>> >=A0 do *like* the idea of paring with the work held
> suchlike, but it never
> > occurred to me.
>> Fly rod makers use a block plane with a groove rabetted
> down the center of the length of the bed.=A0 They use a metal tapering
> jig that is very clever that allows them to make the hexagonal pieces
> that glue into the rod sections and make them tapered in a controlled
> fashion.=A0
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jul 14, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Ted Shuck wrote:

> A key point
> about using the grooved plane for this application is that the  
> groove must
> be wider than the strip which is being planed.  I don't know that  
> this would
> be the case when using a grooved plane on a miter jack?  This  
> restriction
> would limit the stock to be less than about 2/3 the width of the  
> plane sole.

Ted

Good point.  Could we add a small extension to both sides of the plane  
- like a thin piece of wood clamped to each cheek - for the plane to  
ride on the jack?  I am picturing a 1/16" piece of flat steel just  
smaller than the plane sole sitting on another flat piece, then  
clamping a piece of 3/8 hardwood onto each cheek so that it fully  
contacts the lower piece of steel.  Too much trouble - like GAM says -  
just be careful.

Ed Minch

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jul 14, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Ted Shuck wrote:

> I did occasionally gouge into the surface of my mitre jack with the  
> plane while making my joints, but it really isn't a problem until  
> you mangle it sufficiently to mess up the geometry.  Even then, it  
> is not too difficult to bring it back with a few minutes of careful  
> planing of the surface.

Sounds like Robert is, in fact, your brother's mother's brother

Ed Minch

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ed Minch writes:

> Fly rod makers use a block plane with a groove rabetted down the 
> center of the length of the bed.  They use a metal tapering jig that 
> is very clever that allows them to make the hexagonal pieces that glue 
> into the rod sections and make them tapered in a controlled fashion. 
> The sole of the plane rides on the jig, while the rabetted part planes 
> the piece - the blade never touches the jig.  How about a #3 or #4 
> sized plane with a 1/16" or so groove down the length of the sole for 
> the same purpose on a miter jack.  Better minds than I have looked at 
> this for centuries, and I have never used a miter jack, but, hey, I'm 
> just sayin'.

A farmer and part-time fly-rod maker who once borrowed a book from me on 
fly-rod construction, still, so far as I am aware, shapes his rod 
segments using wooden forms and a couple of the humble Stanley 110 block 
planes. I do not think that he has had grooves or slots milled down 
their mid-lines.  However, Ed's description of a grooved plane and its 
use for rod-making sheds a sudden light, for me, on a "curiosity" which 
was displayed by a fleaster for several weeks before someone bought it. 
This "curiosity" was a block plane, it may have been a Stanley 110 but I 
do not remember,  which had four pieces of what appeared to be shim 
brass of moderate gauge sweated to its sole in such a way as the mouth 
was left unobstructed to its full width whilst, as I view it through my 
mind's eye but from a new, Ed-generated perspective, there was, in 
effect, a channel or groove left along the sole's midline, about 1/3 of 
the sole's width, as I recall.

There is little doubt that, if perusal of the List remains part of one's 
daily routine, all of life's little mysteries will, sooner or later, be 
revealed.

Regards from Brisbane,

John Manners 

------------------------------------------------------------------------