Galoots I was getting together some of my better backsaws for a little
sharpening session and found an oddity. I have a 14 inch brass backed
saw marked J Taylor and Son Sheffield and Advance. There is a running
horse logo with a halo over the horses head and a lance or flag. The
only info I could find was Jim Crammond post about finding a 28" rip saw
back in 2002 and an old e-bay sale listing. Its in very nice shape and
after much head scratching remember buying it at one of Martins auctions
several years ago. Any guessed as to age or how long the company was in
business and for how long. Any help would be welcome. Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 09:56 AM 1/2/2011, Steve Lineback wrote:
>Galoots
>I was getting together some of my better backsaws for a little 
>sharpening session and found an oddity. I have a 14 inch brass 
>backed saw marked J Taylor and Son Sheffield and Advance.

Taylor Brothers were Sheffield saw makers who worked 1847 
-1915.  They used a number of marks "Advance", Joseph Taylor,  J. 
Taylor & Son, J. & I. Taylor, Adelaide Saw Works, Melvin, Adelaide, Smithson.)

Tony (wishing that we would get enough rain to wash the salt off of 
the truck..)

                         Olde River Hard Goods
                     http://www.oldetoolshop.com
                                   TSMusic on Facebook
                http://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've got a J Taylor and Son 14" backsaw that I like quite a lot.  A few
months ago, I did a little digging on the Taylor company and found this:

Taylor Brothers made a wide variety of saws marketed under numerous brands
including: Tayor Brothers, J. Taylor and Son, Joseph Taylor, J. & I. Taylor,
Adelaide Saw Works, Melvin, Adelaide, Advance, and Smithson.

They were located at the Adelaide Works, on Moubray Street.

FWIW,the lamb is called a Paschal lamb.It is often used in English
heraldry and coats of arms of various English towns.The Paschal lamb
always carries a flag or banner and it represents faith,innocence
and bravery amongst other things.
    The flag is held by a curled front leg and is not really stuck
through the lamb's neck.Generally the flag depicted will be
St.George's cross which is the Flag of England (not Britain) and
is a red cross on a white background.

Ken in TN

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Steve Lineback wrote:

> Galoots
> I was getting together some of my better backsaws for a little sharpening
> session and found an oddity. I have a 14 inch brass backed saw marked J
> Taylor and Son Sheffield and Advance. There is a running horse logo with a
> halo over the horses head and a lance or flag. The only info I could find
> was Jim Crammond post about finding a 28" rip saw back in 2002 and an old
> e-bay sale listing. Its in very nice shape and after much head scratching
> remember buying it at one of Martins auctions several years ago. Any guessed
> as to age or how long the company was in business and for how long. Any help
> would be welcome.
> Steve
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

--===============6452496607074564865=Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

U3RldmUsDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBhIFRheWxvciBhbmQgU29ucyAoSSB0aGluaykgZG92ZXRhaWw-
gc2F3 LiAgSXQgaXMgYSA5IG9yIDEwIiB3aXRoIEJyYXNzIGJhY2suICBJIHdpbGwgY2hlY-
2sgdGhpcyBl dmVuaW5nIHRvIHNlZSBpZiBpdCBtYXkgaGF2ZSBhbnkgb3RoZXIgbWFya2l-
uZ3Mgc2ltaWxhciB0 byB5b3Vycy4gIEFsbCBJIGNvdWxkIGZpbmQgaW4gbXkgb3duIHNlY-
XJjaCAoc29tZSB2aWEgdGhl IHBvcmNoKSBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIHdlcmUgc2V2ZXJhbCB-
kaWZmZXJlbnQgdmVyc2lvbnMgb2Yg dGhlIFRheWxvciAoaS5lLiBKLiBUYXlsb3IsIFRhe-
WxvciAmIFNvbnMsIGV0Yy4pIG5hbWUgdXNl ZCBpbiB0b29sIG1hbnVmYWN0dXJpbmcgaW4-
gU2hlZmZpZWxkIGZyb20gdGhlIG1pZCAxODAwJ3Mg dG8gYXJvdW5kIHRoZSB0dXJuIG9mI-
HRoZSBjZW50dXJ5Lg0KDQpEb2MNCg0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUg U3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29-
yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tD-
QpGcm9tOiAiU3RldmUgTGluZWJhY2siIDxzdGV2ZS5saW5lYmFja0BhdHQu bmV0Pg0KU2V-
uZGVyOiBvbGR0b29scy1ib3VuY2VzQHJ1Y2t1cy5sYXcuY29ybmVsbC5lZHUNCkRh dGU6I-
FN1biwgMiBKYW4gMjAxMSAwOTo1NjowMCANClRvOiBvbGR0b29sczxvbGR0b29sc0BydWNr
dXMubGF3LmNvcm5lbGwuZWR1Pg0KUmVwbHktVG86IFN0ZXZlIExpbmViYWNrIDxzdGV2ZS5-
saW5l YmFja0BhdHQubmV0Pg0KU3ViamVjdDogW09sZFRvb2xzXSBKLiBUYXlsb3IgYW5kI-
FNvbiBiYWNr c2F3DQoNCkdhbG9vdHMNCkkgd2FzIGdldHRpbmcgdG9nZXRoZXIgc29tZSB-
vZiBteSBiZXR0ZXIg YmFja3Nhd3MgZm9yIGEgbGl0dGxlIHNoYXJwZW5pbmcgc2Vzc2lvb-
iBhbmQgZm91bmQgYW4gb2Rk aXR5LiBJIGhhdmUgYSAxNCBpbmNoIGJyYXNzIGJhY2tlZCB-
zYXcgbWFya2VkIEogVGF5bG9yIGFu ZCBTb24gU2hlZmZpZWxkIGFuZCBBZHZhbmNlLiBUa-
GVyZSBpcyBhIHJ1bm5pbmcgaG9yc2UgbG9n byB3aXRoIGEgaGFsbyBvdmVyIHRoZSBob3J-
zZXMgaGVhZCBhbmQgYSBsYW5jZSBvciBmbGFnLiBU aGUgb25seSBpbmZvIEkgY291bGQgZ-
mluZCB3YXMgSmltIENyYW1tb25kIHBvc3QgYWJvdXQgZmlu ZGluZyBhIDI4IiByaXAgc2F-
3IGJhY2sgaW4gMjAwMiBhbmQgYW4gb2xkIGUtYmF5IHNhbGUgbGlz dGluZy4gSXRzIGluI-
HZlcnkgbmljZSBzaGFwZSBhbmQgYWZ0ZXIgbXVjaCBoZWFkIHNjcmF0Y2hp bmcgcmVtZW1-
iZXIgYnV5aW5nIGl0IGF0IG9uZSBvZiBNYXJ0aW5zIGF1Y3Rpb25zIHNldmVyYWwg eWVhc-
nMgYWdvLiBBbnkgZ3Vlc3NlZCBhcyB0byBhZ2Ugb3IgaG93IGxvbmcgdGhlIGNvbXBhbnkg
d2FzIGluIGJ1c2luZXNzIGFuZCBmb3IgaG93IGxvbmcuIEFueSBoZWxwIHdvdWxkIGJlIHd-
lbGNv bWUuDQpTdGV2ZQ0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tL-
S0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpPbGRUb29scyBpcyBhIG1-
haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBj YXRlcmluZyB0byB0aGUgaW50ZXJlc3RzIG9mIGhhbmQgdG9vbA0KY-
WZpY2lvbmFkb3MsIGJvdGgg Y29sbGVjdG9ycyBhbmQgdXNlcnMsIHRvIGRpc2N1c3MgdGh-
lIGhpc3RvcnksIHVzYWdlLA0KdmFs dWUsIGxvY2F0aW9uLCBhdmFpbGFiaWxpdHksIGNvb-
GxlY3RpYmlsaXR5LCBhbmQgcmVzdG9yYXRp b24gb2YNCnRyYWRpdGlvbmFsIGhhbmR0b29-
scywgZXNwZWNpYWxseSB3b29kd29ya2luZyB0b29s cy4NCg0KVG8gY2hhbmdlIHlvdXIgc-
3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIG9wdGlvbnM6DQpodHRwOi8vcnVja3Vz Lmxhdy5jb3JuZWxsLmVkdS9-
tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29sZHRvb2xzDQoNClRvIHJlYWQgdGhl IEZBUToNCmh0dHA6L-
y9zd2luZ2xleWRldi5jb20vYXJjaGl2ZS9mYXEuaHRtbA0KDQpPbGRUb29s cyBhcmNoaXZ-
lOiBodHRwOi8vc3dpbmdsZXlkZXYuY29tL2FyY2hpdmUvDQoNCk9sZFRvb2xzQHJ1 Y2t1c-
y5sYXcuY29ybmVsbC5lZHUNCmh0dHA6Ly9ydWNrdXMubGF3LmNvcm5lbGwuZWR1L21haWxt
YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vb2xkdG9vbHMNCg= --===============6452496607074564865=Content-
Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-
Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

------------------------------------------------------------------------

SNIP:

FWIW,the lamb is called a Paschal lamb.It is often used in English
heraldry and coats of arms of various English towns.The Paschal lamb
always carries a flag or banner and it represents faith,innocence
and bravery amongst other things.

END SNIP

Friends:

The above is correct, by omits to say that the Paschal Lamb is a symbol of
Christ with specific relation to Easter.  It is very common in some
churches.

Cheers!

J

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geez, All this interesting Taylor talk caused me to run out to the garage
(in the cold) and see what I had.

Simply "Taylor Cast Steel" stamped on the back.  I am still holding out hope
that we can put some dates to these various  symbols and choices of stamps.

Kirk in HMB, going to bed, its getting cold in here.  (No walks on the beach
today Steve L, but several over the weekend, but it was down in the low 50s
for most of them)

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Ray Gardiner  wrote:

>
> Interesting, how deep and pervasive symbolism can be:-
>
> I've been reading the ever reliable Wikipedia :-) entries regarding the
> Paschal Lamb,  "Lamb of God",  "Agnus Dei" the symbol appears to have
> masonic connections as
> well as connections to jewish passover.
>
> A google image search for "Paschal Lamb" shows many variations on the
> theme, some are carrying a cross, some the St George banner.
>
> My thanks to Ken for spotting and recognizing the significance of a very
> interesting symbol.
>
> Regards
> Ray
>
>
> On 1/3/2011, "Joseph Sullivan"  wrote:
>
> >
> >SNIP:
> >
> >FWIW,the lamb is called a Paschal lamb.It is often used in English
> >heraldry and coats of arms of various English towns.The Paschal lamb
> >always carries a flag or banner and it represents faith,innocence
> >and bravery amongst other things.
> >
> >END SNIP
> >
> >Friends:
> >
> >The above is correct, by omits to say that the Paschal Lamb is a symbol of
> >Christ with specific relation to Easter.  It is very common in some
> >churches.
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >J
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> >aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> >value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> >traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> >
> >To change your subscription options:
> >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >
> >To read the FAQ:
> >http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> >
> >OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
> >
> >OldTools@r...
> >http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Steve,

J Taylor and Sons, was a trademark of Taylor Brothers, as Tony has
already pointed out, the weird animal, is actually a sheep with a halo,
I used to think it was some kind of mutant seal, but a better image
makes it much clearer. This is from another of Taylor Brothers
trademarks "Mowbray" but the logo is clearer and more detailed.

http://www.backsaw.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=129&d A nice
document showing some of the Taylor Brothers marks can be found on
Wiktor's web site it is from an article written for TATHS by Simon
Barley, the original document is from Ken Hawley's collection.
http://www.backsaw.net/pics/Simon%20Article4.jpg

The full article on Acid Etching Saws is here http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-
saws/z_reading/acidEtching_Saws/acidEtching-Simon2.asp

Wiktor's site has additional information on Taylor Brothers here..
http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUK/TaylorBros/taylorBros-index.asp

Taylor Brothers made some beautiful saws, I have used Taylor Brothers
handle designs on a few saws and they have a very comfortable, easy to
use, feel about them.

A 14 inch Taylor Brothers sash tenon saw is a nice thing to find.

Regards Ray

> Galoots I was getting together some of my better backsaws for a
> little sharpening session and found an oddity. I have a 14 inch brass
> backed saw marked J Taylor and Son Sheffield and Advance. There is a
> running horse logo with a halo over the horses head and a lance or
> flag. The only info I could find was Jim Crammond post about finding
> a 28" rip saw back in 2002 and an old e-bay sale listing. Its in very
> nice shape and after much head scratching remember buying it at one
> of Martins auctions several years ago. Any guessed as to age or how
> long the company was in business and for how long. Any help would be
> welcome. Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 SNIP:
Interesting, how deep and pervasive symbolism can be:-

I've been reading the ever reliable Wikipedia :-) entries regarding the
Paschal Lamb,  "Lamb of God",  "Agnus Dei" the symbol appears to have
masonic connections as
well as connections to jewish passover.

END SNIP

Agree fully.  The Easter/Passover connection is essentially that Christians
believe that the Passover lamb whose blood on the door lintel preserved the
firstborn of the Children of Israel from death in the final Egyptian plague
was a foreshadowing of the Christ, whose blood preserves believers from
eternal death.

Agnus Dei is simply "Lamb of God" in Latin.  I used to say it every day as
part of a longer prayer as an altar boy in the days of yore.  Paschal Lamb
is a little different, making the explicit connection to Easter/Passover.

I don't know but would guess that the carrying of national banners is an
artifact of Christendom, when the more or less Christian monarchs for better
or worse held themselves out to be defenders of the faith.  Whether they
lived up to it personally or publically is another matter, but the
iconography survives if not the theory.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting, how deep and pervasive symbolism can be:-

I've been reading the ever reliable Wikipedia :-) entries regarding the
Paschal Lamb, "Lamb of God", "Agnus Dei" the symbol appears to have
masonic connections as well as connections to jewish passover.

A google image search for "Paschal Lamb" shows many variations on the
theme, some are carrying a cross, some the St George banner.

My thanks to Ken for spotting and recognizing the significance of a very
interesting symbol.

Regards Ray

On 1/3/2011, "Joseph Sullivan"  wrote:

>
>SNIP:
>
>FWIW,the lamb is called a Paschal lamb.It is often used in English
>heraldry and coats of arms of various English towns.The Paschal lamb
>always carries a flag or banner and it represents faith,innocence and
>bravery amongst other things.
>
>END SNIP
>
>Friends:
>
>The above is correct, by omits to say that the Paschal Lamb is a symbol
>of Christ with specific relation to Easter. It is very common in some
>churches.
>
>Cheers!
>
>J
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
>aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
>value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
>traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
>To change your subscription options:
>http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
>To read the FAQ: http://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
>OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
>OldTools@r... http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
------------------------------------------------------------------------