I use one of those magnifying lights that you can clamp
to the bench.  Costs $25- $30 in several of the WW
catalogs.
 
And starting out with that many teeth is making it hard
on yourself.  Try picking up a junker at a Flea Market
($3-$5 around Dayton OH).
 
Tom Ellis

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter J. Hahn [mailto:hahnp@m...
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:18 PM
To: OLDTOOLS@w...
Subject: saw sharpening (attempt #4)


A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
old Sandvik backsaw for practice - I dont use it much any more.
Its about 15-17 TPI (more later), and using Tom Laws primer I
got as far as re- setting the teeth - and I started to break a few.  I
realized that even when I put on my reading glasses I was
having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
hard to even count how many per inch.  

Yeah, start with those and add a flip down set of auxiliary
magnifying lenses. My eyesight has never been great and
age, injury, and surgery haven't helped things. So I keep a
set of moderatly magnifying eyeglasses in the shop with an
old (OT content: Bought 'em at a MWTCA meet) flip down
lens set added. Works good for a lot of things. Plus teeth as
fine as you're dealing with here are just darn small. Don't think
I've done anything finer than 11/12 tpi or so, and that was much
less fun than a nice 6 tpi'er.

"Peter J. Hahn" wrote:

>

SNIP

> I was
> having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
> hard to even count how many per inch.  Is this why in the old
> days they fired cabinet/furniture makers that needed glasses?  I
> could try to only sharpen saws with bigger teeth, but I really
> need to sharpen the backsaw I use for cutting tenon shoulders.
> I've been touching it up but its going to need some serious work
> soon.    This is a problem that a lot of people must have solved
> already.  Whats the answer - keep a superstrong pair of reading
> glasses with the sharpening kit?  Peter Hahn
>
>

I'd fully concur that fine tooth saws should be tackled near the end of the
learning curve, not the beginning.  Rip saws make good candidates for a
first time filer, followed by 7 or 8 ppi crosscuts.  For complete
instructions visit:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

Pete Taran
Vintage Saws on the Web at:
http://www.vintagesaws.com

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	owner-oldtools@w...
[mailto:owner-oldtools@w...  On Behalf Of paul womack
Sent:	Thursday, June 14, 2001 5:52 AM
To:	hahnp@m...
Cc:	OLDTOOLS@w...
Subject:	Re: saw sharpening (attempt #4)

"Peter J. Hahn" wrote:
>
> A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
> sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
> old Sandvik backsaw for practice - I dont use it much any more.
> Its about 15-17 TPI (more later), and using Tom Laws primer I
> got as far as re- setting the teeth - and I started to break a few.  I
> realized that even when I put on my reading glasses I was
> having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
> hard to even count how many per inch.

Dovetail saws are by far the worst here. Since they are (or should
be) rip filed with minimal set, and have small teeth, there is
VERY LITTLE indication of which way the teeth "go"

Conversely, the easiest are the big cross cuts (panel saws).
Around 8-12 TPI, cross cut, and reasonable set.
Both the set, and the shape of the point differentiate
the teeth.

Start on the easy stuff. And use 1 coupla lamps. You CANNOT
have too much light when sharpening small saws.

	BugBear (who's first re-sharpen was a DT. I didn't take my own advice)

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saw sharpening (attempt #4)
  -----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-oldtools@l... Behalf Of Peter J. Hahn
  Sent: 13 June 2001 20:18
  To: OLDTOOLS@w...


  A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
  sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
  old Sandvik backsaw for practice - I dont use it much any more.
  Its about 15-17 TPI (more later), and using Tom Laws primer I
  got as far as re- setting the teeth - and I started to break a few.  I
  realized that even when I put on my reading glasses I was
  having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
  hard to even count how many per inch.  Is this why in the old
  days they fired cabinet/furniture makers that needed glasses?  I
  could try to only sharpen saws with bigger teeth, but I really
  need to sharpen the backsaw I use for cutting tenon shoulders.
  I've been touching it up but its going to need some serious work
  soon.    This is a problem that a lot of people must have solved
  already.  Whats the answer - keep a superstrong pair of reading
  glasses with the sharpening kit?  Peter Hahn

  One trick for finding out where you've already been is to run the teeth
through a smoky candle flame - it won't do any harm.

  More about saw sharpening on my web site. Look under Sharpening Notes.
  --
  Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
  Jeff@m...
  http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/Index.htm

"Peter J. Hahn" wrote:
> 
> A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
> sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
> old Sandvik backsaw for practice - I dont use it much any more.
> Its about 15-17 TPI (more later), and using Tom Laws primer I
> got as far as re- setting the teeth - and I started to break a few.  I
> realized that even when I put on my reading glasses I was
> having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
> hard to even count how many per inch. 

Dovetail saws are by far the worst here. Since they are (or should
be) rip filed with minimal set, and have small teeth, there is
VERY LITTLE indication of which way the teeth "go"

Conversely, the easiest are the big cross cuts (panel saws).
Around 8-12 TPI, cross cut, and reasonable set.
Both the set, and the shape of the point differentiate
the teeth.

Start on the easy stuff. And use 1 coupla lamps. You CANNOT
have too much light when sharpening small saws.

	BugBear (who's first re-sharpen was a DT. I didn't take my own advice)

>"Peter J. Hahn" wrote:
>> 
>> A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
>> sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
>> old Sandvik backsaw for practice - I dont use it much any more.
>> Its about 15-17 TPI (more later), and using Tom Laws primer I
>> got as far as re- setting the teeth - and I started to break a few.  I
>> realized that even when I put on my reading glasses I was
>> having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
>> hard to even count how many per inch. 

[Not an older galoot, and I've never sharpened a saw, but...]
Every Sandvik saw I've seen (all newish types) bar one have case hardened teeth.
  I'd expect these would be highly susceptible to breaking.  If this is the case
 for your saw, maybe you'd be better off practising on something else.

Jaime Metcher

----- Original Messages snipped -----

> > >> A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
> > >> sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
> > >> old Sandvik backsaw for practice -


> > Every Sandvik saw I've seen (all newish types) bar one have case
hardened teeth.  I'd expect these would be highly susceptible to breaking.
If this is the case for your saw, maybe you'd be better off practising on
something else.
> >

The Sandvik backsaw I bought around 1988 specified on the paper sheath, what
size/type of file to use when sharpening.  So they were not all case
hardened.

Paul Pflumm

Jaime Metcher wrote:
> 
> >"Peter J. Hahn" wrote:
> >>
> >> A question for you older galoots. I have been wanting to learn how to
> >> sharpen my saws and I thought I would start with my
> >> old Sandvik backsaw for practice - I dont use it much any more.
> >> Its about 15-17 TPI (more later), and using Tom Laws primer I
> >> got as far as re- setting the teeth - and I started to break a few.  I
> >> realized that even when I put on my reading glasses I was
> >> having a hard time seeing which way the little teeth were set its
> >> hard to even count how many per inch.
> 
> [Not an older galoot, and I've never sharpened a saw, but...]
> > Every Sandvik saw I've seen (all newish types) bar one have case hardened te
eth.  I'd expect these would be highly susceptible to breaking.  If this is the 
case for your saw, maybe you'd be better off practising on something else.
> 

In the mid-80's (I've been reading maagazines from this period) Sandvik
were
making saws of considerable galoot pretensions. How good they were I
don't know,
but the marketing was of the "classic style of tool" persuasion.

	Bugbear

> > Every Sandvik saw I've seen (all newish types) bar one have case
hardened teeth.  I'd expect these would be highly susceptible to breaking.
If this is the case for your saw, maybe you'd be better off practising on
something else.
> >
>
> In the mid-80's (I've been reading maagazines from this period) Sandvik
> were
> making saws of considerable galoot pretensions. How good they were I
> don't know,
> but the marketing was of the "classic style of tool" persuasion.
>
> Bugbear

I've had two Sandvik saws from the mid-1950's in use for the last six years.
I inherited both from my FIL who was a finish carpenter in those days.
Although one even has a butt ugly laminated handle, they are both every bit
as good as my Disstons, Atkins and Simmonds saws. They have sharpened well
and stayed sharp w/ my level of use (of course, they do share the load w/ a
dozen others). I don't know about more recent production, but the older
stuff is definitely good.

Bill

Bill Ghio wrote:
> 
> > > Every Sandvik saw I've seen (all newish types) bar one have case
> hardened teeth.  I'd expect these would be highly susceptible to breaking.
> If this is the case for your saw, maybe you'd be better off practising on
> something else.
> > >
> >
> > In the mid-80's (I've been reading maagazines from this period) Sandvik
> > were
> > making saws of considerable galoot pretensions. How good they were I
> > don't know,
> > but the marketing was of the "classic style of tool" persuasion.
> >
> > Bugbear
> 
> I've had two Sandvik saws from the mid-1950's in use for the last six years.
> I inherited both from my FIL who was a finish carpenter in those days.
> Although one even has a butt ugly laminated handle,

Minor obsession of mine. If the tool ain't "mega" collectible, or
valuable,
sharp, vicious (wooden) handles can be easily improved. Just apply
spokeshave, chisel,
gouge, rasp, riffler and sandpaper until happy...

	BugBear