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51638 "Bruce Thacker" <b.thacker@g...> 1998‑10‑15 Sawset Review - Part 2
Saw Set Review - Part 2  (Once again, this is somewhat lengthy)

As I begin this review of the sawsets I have and have used I would like to
put the sawset into
some perspective.  Keep in mind as we discuss Tooth Benders that they are
only used during a
portion of the saw sharpening process.  Consistent setting is as important
to the performance of a
saw as is the filing job done on it or even the mechanics of the sawyer.
As we have all learned , it
takes practice, technique and more practice to learn the skills that allow
us to get the greatest
performance possible out of a hand plane.  So it is with tooth benders, to
reach the point of
obtaining consistent results in bending saw teeth takes practice .

Pete Taran has cautioned against taking one Galoots (mine) bad experience
with a particular saw
set as gospel.  I agree.  Each person involved with the sharpening of saws
must find those tools
that he/she is comfortable using and gives them consistent results.

On To The Review
For pictures of the named sawsets please refer to Nathan Lindseys SawSet
Museum.

In the category - Nice to Look At But Not Worth Using
     Stanley 432 (sometimes known as a Defiance 432, Handyman 432 or 4
Square #1142)
           Maybe Im just lucky but the copy I have of this set just doesnt
seem like it could
           bend anything accurately, let alone a saw tooth.  The handle
flops around like a
          dying carp and the plunger does a partial spiral as it approaches
the saw tooth.
          Nothing is broken though.  This pistol-grip syle of set makes use
of a rectangular
          shaped anvil that is adjusted up & down by means of a pressed
metal dial located
          on the outside of the set. The dial is graduated from 5 to 11 pts.
but is of course
          not very accurate.  I think a more appropriate range for this
sawset would be 4 to
          8 pt saws and limited to the homeowner or handyman that does not
expect much in
          the way of performance out of his saws.  The best thing I can saw
is that this set is
          available in a variety of color combinations.  These include Red &
Black, Blue &
          Black, Red & Grey, Red & Green and Yellow & Black.  If you hope to
achieve
          any degree of consistency in your saw sharpening efforts Id pass
on this one.

In the category - Requires More Coordination Than A  Galoot Should Be
Expected To Have
    Taintors Positive No. 7
          Made from pressed steel parts and held together with pins &
rivets.....no cast metal
           here.  Adjustment for tooth height is made via a rotating
multi-faceted anvil that is
          graduated from 3 to 12 pts.  Ive only seen a couple of these
besides the one I have
          and all exhibit extremely worn anvils.  Looks like they were made
from a fairly soft
          steel and not a hardened tool steel.  Kindof makes doing any kind
of accurate
          setting work difficult.  I believe this set would be most
appropriate for saws up to
          10 pts, not the 12 engraved on the anvil.  On this pliers-type
grip set the upper
          handle controls a clamping device to hold the saw against the
anvil and the lower
          handle operates the plunger.

 Disston Triumph
          A nice turn-of-the-century design made up of several castings.
Adjustment for
          tooth height is made via a rotatable disk with 4 different bevels
ground on it and a
          screw adjustable winged device that stradles the sawset head.  My
copy of this set
          has the larger plunger so it is really only appropriate for saws
up to maybe 10 pts. I
          understand that these were also made with a smaller plunger for
those saws with
          more teeth. The nicest feature of this set is the width of the
winged device which
          rests upon the sawteeth.  It gives excellent stability to the set
and really prevents
          any side to side movement of the set.  This set also employs the
pliers-type style of
          grip and the handles move independently.  Lower handle engages a
clamping type
          plunger to hold the saw against the anvil and the upper handle
operates the
          bending plunger.

 I guess with practice I could get the hang of lowering the top lever
followed by raising the
 bottom lever or vice versa but it just seems like more trouble than it is
worth when there
 are sets available that are operated by moving only one handle.

In the category - Balancing Might Be Too Difficult to Master
     Aikens Patent Hammer Struck Sawset
          Unlike the other sawsets, this one must be mounted into a tapered
mortise in your
          bench top of clamped in a vise.  At 3 ½" long and only 3/8" wide
it is also the
          smallest set in my co**ection.  You gotta luv it.  Such a simple
design.  It offers all
          adjustments one could want in a set.  Adjustments for tooth height
are made by
          moving the winged apparatus on each side of the anvil either
forward or
          backwards.  The amount of set is adjusted by the screw located on
the front
          extension.  How easy, just lay your saw down over the anvil, teeth
against the
          guide, line up the tooth with the striker, lower the saw until it
touches the screw
          then whack the striker with a hammer while balancing the saw in
your other hand.
          Therein lies the main problem with this set.  Learning to balance
a 26" long saw or
          any saw for that matter over a 3/8" wide anvil.   I must also
confess that I have not
          actually attempted to set the teeth on a saw with this set.  I
just cant bring myself
          to hit anything made in the mid 1800's with a hammer.

In the category - Easy To Find/Easy To Use
     With a moderate amount of practice, I believe the average Galoot would
be able to obtain
     consistent results using any one of the following sawsets.  In my area
I have found the
     Morrills to be more prevalent in the OldTool marketplace.  I have had
to resort to
     sources out of my area for the Stanleys.

    Stanley 42
          This pistol-grip style set is the one with the Hump back and a
fixed stop bar
          located below the head. The rectangular anvil is screw adjustable
up & down to set
          the bending point on the teeth.  With the medium sized plunger in
the set I believe
          it will handle anything from a 6 to a 10 pt saw quite well.  Nice,
simple, easy to
          set-up and use.  My only criticisms of this sawset are the lack of
any adjustment
          for the amount of set and the anvil is angled a little too sharply
causing bending
          lines to appear on the back side of the teeth.  This of course can
be remedied by a
          little careful filing.

 Stanley 42X
          What appears to be an improved version of the original 42, this
pistol-grip set
          employs a similar screw adjustable rectangular anvil.  Located
under the plunger is
          a clamp that extends slightly ahead of the plunger to hold the saw
against the anvil.
          I havent figured out why so many have felt the need to clamp the
saw against the
          anvil.  It must be that either saws are slippery or sharpeners are
shaky.  To
          reiterate what Pete Taran has said about this set, out of the box
it should handle up
          to 12 pt saws.  Beyond that, the plunger needs to be ground a
little smaller.  An
          easy task with this set.  I dont think Id try to use it on the 3
to 5 pt rip saws
          because of the plunger being smaller than those teeth.  My only
criticism of this
          sawset is with the lack of an adjustment for the amount of set
being imparted upon
          the teeth.  I also need more practice in using it to obtain
consistent results. I have
          also found that the anvil adjustment screw has a tendency to hit
the handles of
          backsaws near the heel.  The problem is either one of my technique
being flawed
          or I actually have to remove the handle in order to set the last 1
½ to 2" of the
          saw.  Then again, I dont cut much with that part of the saw so it
may not be
          worth worrying about.

 Stanley 15-640
          This is a pliers-grip version of what I believe to be the 42-line
of sawsets.  It uses a
          rotating disk type anvil, ground like a nautilus shell, along with
the 42X type saw
          clamp and plunger.  This plunger is not as easily removeable for
modifications.
          Like the 42 & 42X this set has no adjustment for the amount of
sawset.  It is easy
          to use though and has a built-in magnifying lens positioned over
the top of the
          plunger so that we who are ½ blind can see the saw teeth better.
I picked this one
          up in a local hardware store about a year ago.  I believe they are
still available in
          the retail marketplace.

 Millers Falls 214 - Early Version
          These are pistol-grip models with solid black paint jobs. I think
MF changed to
          their more standard grey/red paint at a later date.   It provides
for bending point
          adjustment by way of a rotating drum (its too big to be a disk)
in the head.  The
          amount of set is adjusted with a moveable flat bar located below
the head of the
          set.  Pick this baby up and youll know youve got a handfull.
Drop it on your foot
          and youll be wearing a cast instead of a shoe.  This has to be
the tank of all
          sawsets.  Should give excellent results on saws in the 4 to 10 pt.
range.  I wouldnt
          even try to modify this one for use on the smaller saws.  Its
heft would not feel
          right while trying to work on one of the finer point saws.

 Morrill Apex Special
          A nice, simple pliers-grip style sawset that provides for bending
point adjustment
          via a vertical rotating disk in the head.  It also provides for
set adjustment by way
          of a stop bar/screw located below the head.  This is a slightly
smaller sawset that
          seems to work best with saws in the 7 to 10 pt range.

  Dunlap 4873 (Pistol-Grip) & 4880 (Pliers-Grip)
         These two are basically the same sawset with the exception of the
grip type.  Both
          are based upon Morrill patents.  Both incorporate a rotating disk
type anvil
          mounted vertically in the head for bending point adjustment and a
screw type stop
          bar below the head for set adjustment.  Anvils can be easily
removed for
          modification to improve use on up to 16 pt. saws.  The biggest
criticism I have of
          these models is that they are cast in aluminum.  This results in a
slightly awkward
          appearance with oversized parts.  It also results in faster wear
in the head at the
          bearing points upon the saw teeth and in the handle where it rubs
against the
          plunger.  A surprisingly capable sawset.

 Dunlap 695
         This cast iron pistol-grip type sawset makes use of the same
rotating disk anvil and
          screw type stop bar that the other Morrill patent sawsets offer.
Both anvil and
          plunger are removeable without too much trouble and can be
reground to work
          with the finer toothed saws.  It is, without a doubt, my favorite
set to use at the
          present time.  It is approximately the same size as the Stanley
42's and the MF 214
          but more fluid in its lines.  It is also a far simpler design
than any of the other sets
          of this type. And, last but not least, it is FULLY adjustable.

After reading through this evaluation you might be asking yourself if you
could get by with only
one sawset.  Well, a Galoot always needs more than one of anything and in
the case of sawsets I
think everyone needs at least three.  One for the 4-10 pt saws, one for the
11-14 pt saws and if
youre into those saws with real tiny teeth youll need a set modified to
work just for them.
Oh.......I forgot about those 1 and 2 man crosscut saws we all have hanging
around.  They need
special sets too................but thats another story.

For the interested Galoots that are actually reading this, you know that in
part 1 of my sawset
evaluation I made the bold statement about how the Stanley 42X was not the
best sawset
available and that the lowly Dunlap 695 was.  Well............ I will pull
out the verniers,
micrometers and feeler gauges in Part 3 and hopefully prove my point.
Guaranteed to be a hair
splitting experience.

Thank You For Your Patience
Bruce Thacker


51641 Andrew Barss <barss@U...> 1998‑10‑15 Re: Sawset Review - Part 2
        Thanks to bruce and pete for openng an interesting discussion of
the details of sawsets.  I just bought a spifster 42X (thanks, Chuck).  I
noticed with interest Bruce's remark that the 42X doesn't permit
adjustment for the amount of set.  So, a question to Pete and the other
42X users:  how do you get a consistent amount of set (particularly on
backsaws, which is what I got several of that need sharpening) using a
42X?  Even squeezing, or is there a trick to it?

        Thanks,

        Andrew Barss


51645 ironmger@i... 1998‑10‑15 Re: Sawset Review - Part 2
Andrew writes:

>       Thanks to bruce and pete for openng an interesting discussion of
>the details of sawsets.  I just bought a spifster 42X (thanks, Chuck).  I
>noticed with interest Bruce's remark that the 42X doesn't permit
>adjustment for the amount of set.  So, a question to Pete and the other
>42X users:  how do you get a consistent amount of set (particularly on
>backsaws, which is what I got several of that need sharpening) using a
>42X?  Even squeezing, or is there a trick to it?

I guess I'm missing something here, or only my 42X sets have the adjustment
feature.  The anvil on the 42X is a piece of steel that has an abrupt
slope.  It looks like this when viewed from the side:


  
   |
   |

Where's Aaron Ionta when you need him.  Anyway, the anvil can be made to
move up and down in the slot that is milled for it in the cast iron frame
of the set.  For a lot of set, you would position the "break" of the anvil
near the root of the tooth and squeeze.  For less set, you would position
the "break" of the set near the top of the tooth.  The plunger pushes the
same spot near the top of the teeth.  That is what is so good about this
set.  It has a self regulating slot in the frame of the set that rides on
the top of the teeth, and the plunger hits the upper 1/3 of the tooth
regardless of the size.  This is the spot to push on any saw tooth as it is
where you get the most leverage.  Anyway, the point is that you have to
move the anvil up an down to adjust the amount of set.  You can move it so
far up the the sloping part of the set is completely above the top of the
tooth.  If you move it down so that it is just below the top of the tooth,
you get very little set, a little further down, more, and so on.

As for the accuracy, I used to use this set on the early IT saws which had
17 ppi teeth.  I could easily achieve tolerances of .025-.027" along the
entire blade.  In this case, the variance is only .002" which is
exceptional for any manually operated set which relies on human factors to
set the teeth.

Hope this helps,

Pete

Just say, the 42X is still the best in my book, etc.

___________________________________________________________________________

Pete Taran
2493 Foust Hill Road
Hughesville, PA  17737-8325

(717) 584-6440 Voice
(717) 584-6439 Fax

Proprietor of Independence Tool, maker of high quality backsaws for the
hobbyist and professional.
Check out our webpage at http://www.intool.com

___________________________________________________________________________



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