In a dovetailed construction, what appears as the first joint component
on the edge of the board?

A partial pin or a partial Tail?

Why?

Frank Filippone red735i@e...

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I'll let the more informed among us give more information, but I don't
recall ever seeing a half-tail. There are several articles linked over
at Galoot Central about laying out dovetails...

Rob in Peoria
http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=3DWeb_Links
As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz

Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor!
:-----Original Message-----
:From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
:bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Frank Filippone
:Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:40 AM
:To: oldtools@r...
:Subject: [OldTools] Pins and Tails
:
:In a dovetailed construction, what appears as the first joint component
on
:the edge of the board?
:
:A partial pin or a partial Tail?
:
:Why?
:
:Frank Filippone
:red735i@e...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frank F attempts to start this weeks religious discussion with the timeless:

> In a dovetailed construction, what appears as the first joint
> component on the edge of the board?
>
> A partial pin or a partial Tail?
>
> Why?

Okay, I'll bite. Everyone else's mileage probably varies and my
dovetails are not exactly candidates for emulation, but I always cut my
tails first and use them to mark the pins. Now, I'll caveat that with
saying that I've only done through dovetails so that may change the
playing field as well.

cheers all,

Jim E #2 in Wisconsin .. where in spite of a few flurries over night, it
still doesn't look much like winter!
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> In a dovetailed construction, what appears as the first joint component 
> on the edge of the board? 
> 
> A partial pin or a partial Tail?
> 
> Why?
> 
> Frank Filippone

Patial pin (half pin).  If you use a half tail, then the corner 
of your joint is basically long grain glued to end grain, i.e., 
not very strong and might pull apart and leave an unsightly gap 
if the board cups.

If you end in half pins, then the corner of your joint has much 
better long grain to long grain gluing.

When I was making a dovetailed Shaker stepstool a few years ago, 
I made a modified version of the Popular Woodworking Shaker 
stepstool:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea20.html

I made mine with thicker boards and opted not to have supports 
under the treads.  The articles and books I had read said to have 
half pins, not half tails, so I had to modify the PWW plans, which 
used the half tails (which I think is acceptable in this case, due 
to the extra gluing surface that the tread supports provide--but 
that is an exception to the rule).

Here is what I ended up with:
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2935
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=2936

I think if you compare the two versions and picture that corner 
with a half tail instead, you can see why one would be stronger 
than the other.

BTW--since I have a 3-y.o. in the house, this stool is in constant 
use and is holding up quite nicely.

Brian Welch
Worcester, MA

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I would say it depends on what you are building. I'm in the process of
researching a chest of drawers. In the November 2005 issue of popular
woodworking, Lonnie Bird discusses features of 18th century chests and
states: "It's important to start the layout at the back of the case with
a half tail to hide the rabbet. Otherwise, if you begin with a pin, the
rabbet will create an ugly void". 

In the diagrams there is a half tail at the back and a half pin at the
front.

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools-bounces@r...
[mailto:oldtools-bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Robert A.
Weber
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 11:43 AM
To: Frank Filippone; oldtools@r...
Subject: RE: [OldTools] Pins and Tails

I'll let the more informed among us give more information, but I don't
recall ever seeing a half-tail. There are several articles linked over
at Galoot Central about laying out dovetails...

Rob in Peoria
http://www.galootcentral.com/modules.php?name=3DWeb_Links
As recommended by Popular Woodworking's Christopher Schwarz

Wood shavings on the floor! Wood shavings on the floor!
:-----Original Message-----
:From: oldtools-bounces@r... [mailto:oldtools-
:bounces@r...] On Behalf Of Frank Filippone
:Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:40 AM
:To: oldtools@r...
:Subject: [OldTools] Pins and Tails
:
:In a dovetailed construction, what appears as the first joint component
on
:the edge of the board?
:
:A partial pin or a partial Tail?
:
:Why?
:
:Frank Filippone
:red735i@e...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's always been half pins on everything I've seen or done, although
Cecil Pierce did half-tails in his book, "The Precision Cutting of
Dovetails" IIRC. He also recommended cutting the DTs with a hacksaw. I
sold the book long ago but remember his dovetails looked funny to me.

Dennis Heyza Macomb MI

 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Frank
 Filippone" 
> In a dovetailed construction, what appears as the first joint
> component on the edge of the board?
>
> A partial pin or a partial Tail?
>
> Why?
>
> Frank Filippone red735i@e...
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Here is what I ended up with:
> http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id 
> http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id 
> 
> I think if you compare the two versions and picture that corner 
> with a half tail instead, you can see why one would be stronger 
> than the other.
> 
> BTW--since I have a 3-y.o. in the house, this stool is in constant 
> use and is holding up quite nicely.
> 
> Brian Welch

OOH! OOH! Show and Tell!

Here's mine - my GIT is gonna be 5 years old before long and our second 
is going to be delivered on Friday! - and my GIT STILL uses it every 
night to stand on to brush her teeth!

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3010

If you have infant GIT's get building on one of these puppies ASAP! 
While I caution against wax in the description it is very easy to repair 
of course and the stool has held up in this extremely damp environment 
so I wouldn't caution too much against it.

Happy Galooting,
Ken
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