Recently I have been framing walls in our new home's basement. SWMBO has
agreed that I can have the entire basement for my office and workshop
(less the usual utility room), so this is a labour of love.

Last night I had a simple task - fit several wall studs around a
horizontal pipe afixed to the wall. It took only a few minutes - just
hold the stud in place, make a couple of marks, a couple of quick cuts
with a Disston D-8 crosscut saw using a bench hook, a few taps on one of
my chisels with my hand made mallet to remove the waste and on to the
next stud.

The process wasn't important. What did strike me was the way my approach
to woodworking has changed in the few years since I joined the list.

In the beginning, say 1995, I would have first had to figure out whether
to mount the dado blade on my table saw, spent 10 minutes adjusting the
blade height and making test cuts, carefully balanced an 8 foot stud on
the miter guage and made multiple passes - heart racing as I coaxed too
much semi-dried wood past a screaming blade. The entire process would
have taken at least 30 minutes and aged me ten years.

This was my "Stage 1" galoot period. I knew about hand tools but never
stopped to consider them for routine operations.

By 1997, I would have approached the task differently. I would have
known how to do such a job with power tools, but would have taken the
time to think through how to do the same job with hand tools. I would
have carefully marked each line, making sure it was square. I would have
used a marking guage to scribe the depth of each cut. Carefully
balancing an 8 foot stud on my Stanley miter box, I would cut the cheeks
down to the chosen depth, checking carefully as I went. Then select a
chisel, touch up the blade a bit (they always needed it, or so I
thought) and carefully remove the waste. Then a few minutes more with a
71 router to assure a smooth, flat bottom and I would be done. Average
time, maybe 10 minutes a stud - but hey, I was working with hand tools.

This was my "Stage 2" galoot period. Use hand tools when possible, but
slowly and with great care, substituting thoroughness and caution for
experience.

By 2000, I would have used hand tools unless time or arthritis made
power tools necessary. I would still mark each line and mark the depth
with a marking guage. Then over to the bench. No need for a miter box
now - I just grab a saw from the rack and perpare to cut. Hmmmm - this
saw is a little coarse for these cuts, and the finer one is too long for
comfortable work on the bench top. Perhaps I need a panel saw. Check the
stored web pages for panel saws to make sure I am right about their
length and TPI. Yup - a panel saw is definitely what would work best
here. Check the For Sale lists for a panel saw - send a couple of
e-mails - get a new saw. When it arrives, spend a satisfying Saturday
sharpening and setting it. Now - why did I need it again? Oh yes - the
stud. Back to the bench. Damn - this won't work without a bench hook. I
knew I should have made one. Check my library for bench hook designs -
look for scrap wood - experiment a little. Finish the bench hook and get
back to work. Finally make the cuts and chisel out the waste. Elapsed
time - about 8 weeks for the first stud, somewhat less for the rest.

This was my "Stage 3" galoot period. Hand tool use was becoming normal,
but every job need a new tool, or a new accessory, or something I hadn't
bought or made yet. This is the acquisition stage. Research, planning
and purchasing occupy 90% of the time on each project. The emphasis is
on the "loot" in galoot, because this stage can be expensive.

Now I am in "Stage 4". I have all the tools I need, and almost as many
as I want. I know how to do most basic tasks, and some advanced ones,
using those tools. I know the difference between carpentry and cabinetry
and don't confuse the two. Sometimes "close" is good enough - especially
when workshop time is limited. I still spend extra time on joints that
show, but I spend more time on those things which show than those which
don't. I still use hand tools, but now know enough to use them because
they are good enough, or even better than, their powered alternatives -
rather than just because they are hand tools.

I wonder what the next stage is? I don't expect to reach the "Stage 10"
galoot - where you sell all the power tools, tear out the hydro lines to
your home and look for a supply of whale oil for lighting purposes.

Any of you "Stage 5" galoots out there want to tell me what lays ahead?

Alan N. Graham

Alan held forth, in part:
[snip]
>
>The process wasn't important. What did strike me was the way my approach
>to woodworking has changed in the few years since I joined the list.
>
[snip]
>
>This was my "Stage 1" galoot period. I knew about hand tools but never
>stopped to consider them for routine operations.
>
[snip]
>
>This was my "Stage 2" galoot period. Use hand tools when possible, but
>slowly and with great care, substituting thoroughness and caution for
>experience.
>
[snip]
>
>This was my "Stage 3" galoot period. Hand tool use was becoming normal,
>but every job need a new tool, or a new accessory, or something I hadn't
>bought or made yet. This is the acquisition stage. Research, planning
>and purchasing occupy 90% of the time on each project. The emphasis is
>on the "loot" in galoot, because this stage can be expensive.
>
>Now I am in "Stage 4". I have all the tools I need, and almost as many
>as I want. I know how to do most basic tasks, and some advanced ones,
>using those tools. I know the difference between carpentry and cabinetry
>and don't confuse the two. Sometimes "close" is good enough - especially
>when workshop time is limited. I still spend extra time on joints that
>show, but I spend more time on those things which show than those which
>don't. I still use hand tools, but now know enough to use them because
>they are good enough, or even better than, their powered alternatives -
>rather than just because they are hand tools.

Man, it is nice to hear another soul on the Porch going through the same
process at the same time (I know, we're not the only two).  Although my
approach has been more of a shotgun marriage than an extended courtship.
Sort of a spiral for me, rather than a process.

Putting my foot down now to try and get the room to stop spinning......

chris

cmca@c...

 "A man who wants to work must attach value to the best tools."

					-- Goethe

"Alan N. Graham" wrote:

> Recently I have been framing walls in our new home's basement. SWMBO has
> agreed that I can have the entire basement 

Whoa.  Niiiice.  I *dream* about that much shop space...

[mercilessly snipped, and paraphrased, even]

"Stage 1" I know about hand tools but never
stopped to consider them for routine operations.

[been there; what a noisy, messy place!]

"Stage 2" Use hand tools when possible, but slowly and with great 
care, substituting thoroughness and caution for experience.

[been there too]

"Stage 3" Every job needs a new tool, or a new accessory. 
This is the acquisition stage. 

[Wow, I remember this insanity!]

"Stage 4" I have pretty well all the tools I need, a decent amount 
of skill, and I'm slowly building my skills to the point where using 
handtools efficiently and accurately is second nature.

[Here I am now]

I can postulate the next step, but it pains me to do so...

"Stage 5" Thinning The Herd.  Paring the tool kit down to the 
essentials.  Who needs 10 jointers?  Why do I have 3 dozen 
braces?  Get rid of the dross and all the 'extras'.  Backup
is one thing, but 10 jointers is just plain ridiculous.

Darrell

I am NOT ready for Stage 5 yet.  No way.  I still have a couple 
of square feet of wall space left!  See?  Still got some room in
the spokeshave rack too....

-- 
Darrell LaRue
Oakville ON
FOYBIPO, Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User

--- Richard.Wilson@s... wrote:
> I, too,
> have 'enough' tools to achieve almost any result.  My focus
> now is on
> improving myself.  Tools never made fine furniture unaided.
> Time now to let go, and enjoy the doing.

To which I say 'amen and amen'.

I find myself wavering (amid occoasional Normite lapses) among
stages 3, 4, and 5 depending on the day of the week, the phase
of the moon, and the temperature in the shop. It's much easier
to acquire tools when the temperature in the shop is 10 above
(-12 C) and I'm out of kerosene.

Steve - Kokomo galoot 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com

Alan Graham gave us a new angle on a galoot's progress. . . .
- ferociously snipped per FAQ -

>Any of you "Stage 5" galoots out there want to tell me what lays ahead?

Alan raised a smile with his description of the stages he went through
in reaching the 4th degree of galootdom. I chuckled whilst at the same
time acknowledging the correctness of what he said.

There are other progress markers and revelations though:
1.  Making an edge tool sharp, and the revelation it brings.
2.  Discovering that every possible 'problem' has already been solved a
    hundred years ago.
3.  Discovering that almost every woodworking operation has a
    special tool.
4.  Trying to buy every special tool
5.  Realising that special tools aren't needed for 'hobby' levels
    of activity
6.  Refining the basic set of tools to better quality.
7.  Enjoying the making of your chosen items, in peace, quiet, and
    relative safety.
8.  Raising your personal standards of craftsmanship, item by item.
9.  Producing a piece that's flawless to everyone but yourself

And the final nirvana would be making a flawless piece that
satisfied yourself.

By Alan's standard though, I may have reached the 5th degree - where
cares are thrown away and enjoyment and increasing skill holds sway. I,
too, have 'enough' tools to achieve almost any result. My focus now is
on improving myself. Tools never made fine furniture unaided. Time now
to let go, and enjoy the doing.

One Yorkshireman's opinion..

Richard Wilson

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> This was my "Stage 3" galoot period. Hand tool use was becoming =
normal,
> but every job need a new tool, or a new accessory, or something I =
hadn't
> bought or made yet. This is the acquisition stage. Research, planning
> and purchasing occupy 90% of the time on each project. The emphasis is
> on the "loot" in galoot, because this stage can be expensive.

I'm definately in this stage.  SWMBO requested a shelf, but I didn't =
have a
board wide enough.  I picked up a Fulton version of the #48 a while ago =
that
I wanted to use to tongue and grove two boards together, but it wasn't
sharp.  I also picked up a used sharpening stone recently that I decided =
I
had to use to sharpen this plane.  Of course, the stone was still =
unboxed,
so first I had to make a box.  While making a nice little cherry box, =
SWMBO
came in to check on the progress of the shelf, but she didn't quite =
follow
why I was working on a box when I was supposed to building her shelf.

David Sawyer

------=_NextPart_000_0338_01C1A50F.01455CE0

This is known as a relapse, or "galootus retro-itis". I also find it
also strikes when the weather is nice but the shop is extra messy, and
it is easier to hunt for more than clean up what you have.  8-)

Alan

--- Richard.Wilson@s... wrote:
> I, too,
> have 'enough' tools to achieve almost any result.  My focus
> now is on
> improving myself.  Tools never made fine furniture unaided.
> Time now to let go, and enjoy the doing.

To which I say 'amen and amen'.

I find myself wavering (amid occoasional Normite lapses) among
stages 3, 4, and 5 depending on the day of the week, the phase
of the moon, and the temperature in the shop. It's much easier
to acquire tools when the temperature in the shop is 10 above
(-12 C) and I'm out of kerosene.

Steve - Kokomo galoot

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

Richard Wilson knowingly observes.

> There are other progress markers and revelations though:
> 1.  Making an edge tool sharp, and the revelation it brings.
> 2.  Discovering that every possible 'problem' has already
> been solved a
> hundred years ago.
> 3.  Discovering that almost every woodworking operation has a
> special tool.
> 4.  Trying to buy every special tool
> 5.  Realising that special tools aren't needed for 'hobby' levels of
> activity
> 6.  Refining the basic set of tools to better quality.
> 7.  Enjoying the making of your chosen items, in peace,
> quiet, and relative
> safety.
> 8.  Raising your personal standards of craftsmanship, item by item.
> 9.  Producing a piece that's flawless to everyone but yourself
>
> And the final nirvana  would be making a flawless piece that satisfied
> yourself.

Good points. I would almost view numbers 8 and 9 as part of the
transition to Stage 5.
>
> By Alan's standard though, I may have reached the 5th degree
> -  where cares
> are thrown away and enjoyment and increasing skill holds
> sway.  I, too,
> have 'enough' tools to achieve almost any result.  My focus now is on
> improving myself.  Tools never made fine furniture unaided.
> Time now to let go, and enjoy the doing.
>

I enjoyed Darrel's definition of Stage 5. He said

"Stage 5" Thinning The Herd.  Paring the tool kit down to the
essentials.  Who needs 10 jointers?  Why do I have 3 dozen
braces?  Get rid of the dross and all the 'extras'.  Backup
is one thing, but 10 jointers is just plain ridiculous.

I find myself now examining the tools and wondering whether to get rid
of a few. The quality and unusual ones will stay, but some of the early
purchases, bought when my knowledge and experience were minimal, lay
unused and unloved in remote places in the shop.

Is Stage 5 then a quasi-zen journey? - A reduction of material
possessions, and search for quality, a striving for personal
fulfillment? Or maybe just getting rid of the junk and realizing that
SWMBO is going to get upset if I don't clean up the mess and actually
make something.

Alan N. Graham

Alan,

This sounds like a great idea, but the problem I have is that my "early 
purchases" when I knew nothing about tool buying (as opposed to now, 
when I know ALMOST nothing about tool buying) are, in many cases,  worth 
a pittance compared to what I originally  paid for them.   I know that I 
need to clear dozens of planes and other tools out of the shop so that I 
can get into it and actually do something, but I can't bear to take them 
to a tool meet (like the one today in Bedford - SWTCA/M-WTCA Area I) 
 with price tags significantly less than I paid 10 or 15 years ago.  Or 
put them on the bay knowing that they are going to go for a fraction of 
what I paid originally.  To do either would confirm that I was (am?) a 
total klutz - incapable of striking a reasonable bargain.  Very bad for 
the ego.  Besides, SWMBO knows what I paid for some of these.  :-(

Frank (Fort Worth Armadillo Works)

Alan N. Graham wrote:

>I find myself now examining the tools and wondering whether to get rid
>of a few. The quality and unusual ones will stay, but some of the early
>purchases, bought when my knowledge and experience were minimal, lay
>unused and unloved in remote places in the shop.
>

say Frank
  We all pay for our education one way or 'nother. It's normal. Just tell
SWMBO how much better you've become at it and I'm sure there are a few
scores you can point to that make up for a lot of the early misses. At
least, that's my tune and I'm playing it from here!
  yours, Scott
-- 
*******************************
   Scott Grandstaff
   Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
   scottg@s...
   http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

>Alan N. Graham wrote:
>>I find myself now examining the tools and wondering whether to get rid
>>of a few. The quality and unusual ones will stay, but some of the early
>>purchases, bought when my knowledge and experience were minimal, lay
>>unused and unloved in remote places in the shop.

How's the old saying go?

 The Ability to make Good Choices grows out of Wisdom.
     The Blossoming of Wisdom grow out of Experience.
         The Gaining of Experience grows out of Bad Choices.

I can't believe there's not a person on this list who doesn't
have a box or a shelf of "early purchases" stashed away somewhere,
which --like Frank pointed out-- would only go for a pittance
of the price that was paid for them.

But when I look at one of the gems on my shelf and feel like a 
complete dolt for having bought it in the first place, I can only 
ask myself "Where do you think the guy _you_ bought it from got 
it in the first place?"   The great circle rolls on...

N

 Nichael wrote:

> But when I look at one of the gems on my shelf and feel like a
> complete dolt for having bought it in the first place, I can only
> ask myself "Where do you think the guy _you_ bought it from got
> it in the first place?"   The great circle rolls on...

GG:

A friend of mine - a non-list galoot with a rosewood plow (plough, jeff)
that I covet - has a theory he calls "the last idiot"

something is worth what the last idiot will pay for it - I am the last idiot
for a whole slew (skew?) of stuff at the bottom of the stairs.

Ed Minch

Frank and other reflecting GG's,

Is it the full moon, or the short light of winter ... Seems easy to look
back right now. I'm doing it with tools/woodworking and music/playing,
my two main hobby interests. I see progress in both but so... slow...

But remember what Carmen McRae sings: "In looking back, we just peek
thru a crack, between what's real and false, in this eternal waltz;
meanwhile, we all keep dancing." (1)

I'm giving away some tools, selling some. Getting some focus in the wood
shop and some new tunes and new players in the practice room. In both, I
manage to keep going by recalling something a fine musician told me
years ago when I went back to playing after twenty years of only career.
"Marv, there no such thing as a wrong note. You can play any note any
time. If you don't like how it sounds, just go to one that sounds real
good next."

Reflective Marv in sunny, spring-like Lexinton KY

(1) That's the bridge (chorus) of the tune Looking Back on the CD Carmen
    Sings Monk. Thelonious Monk called the instrumental version
    Reflections. Jon Hendricks wrote the lyrics.

At 11:38 PM 1/26/02 -0600, dilloworks@p... wrote:
>Alan,
>
>This sounds like a great idea, but the problem I have is that my "early
>purchases" when I knew nothing about tool buying (as opposed to now,
>when I know ALMOST nothing about tool buying) are, in many cases, worth
>a pittance compared to what I originally paid for them. I know that I
>need to clear dozens of planes and other tools out of the shop so that
>I can get into it and actually do something, but I can't bear to take
>them to a tool meet (like the one today in Bedford - SWTCA/M-WTCA Area
>I) with price tags significantly less than I paid 10 or 15 years ago.
>Or put them on the bay knowing that they are going to go for a fraction
>of what I paid originally. To do either would confirm that I was (am?)
>a total klutz - incapable of striking a reasonable bargain. Very bad
>for the ego. Besides, SWMBO knows what I paid for some of these. :-(
>
>Frank (Fort Worth Armadillo Works)
>
>Alan N. Graham wrote:
>
>>I find myself now examining the tools and wondering whether to get rid
>>of a few. The quality and unusual ones will stay, but some of the
>>early purchases, bought when my knowledge and experience were minimal,
>>lay unused and unloved in remote places in the shop.
>>

Gary describes stage 14 of the Galoot's Progress:

> are those items that I will never let go of (I have plans to be
cremated
> with my Rice patented square/level/plane/marking gauge/bevel) but
there

Otherwise known as "taking it with you." Let us know if that works for
you Gary!

-- 
Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) 
http://www.galoot-coop.org/

................... I can't believe there's not a person on this list
who doesn't have a box or a shelf of "early purchases" stashed away
somewhere, which --like Frank pointed out-- would only go for a pittance
of the price that was paid for them. ............................

Periodically over the years I made pickup truck runs to Richard
Crane. Load up all the boxes of stuff that was extra, duplicated, bad
buys or whatever and sell it off. Start over again and enjoy the fun
of the hunt.

In these years I've learned to let go of stuff as much as possible.
There are those items that I will never let go of (I have plans to be
cremated with my Rice patented square/level/plane/marking gauge/bevel)
but there are more that I will pass on to others.

There is considerable pleasure to be derived from watching someone else
purchase something that you have cared for, cleaned, conserved and put
back in working order. Watch how delighted that person is when they win
the item. You know that your original purchase has gone on to a good
home where it will be valued.

Gary

Gary Roberts Information Center, The Genetics Institute 200
Cambridgepark Drive, Cambridge, MA 02140 Tel #: 617.665.5114

>...................
>I can't believe there's not a person on this list who doesn't
>have a box or a shelf of "early purchases" stashed away somewhere,
>which --like Frank pointed out-- would only go for a pittance
>of the price that was paid for them.

-- 
GGs
In that I buy users I don't pay too much very  often so the only bad 
purchases are where I have not been careful enough in  inspecting 
before  buying, unfortunately, to often, or where a cheaper repro 
comes out, not often enough,  but this is good for the rest of you 
users. I have only a couple of "collector" type items and have yet to 
be burnt that I know of
jim
(James ME Wallbridge P. Eng.) Libertarian, Metallurgist, Wood & Metal 
Worker, Fly Fisher,  Resident of Calgary,  Canada's new head office 
location of choice.  Permission is hereby given to use any 
information herein, as an attributed quote, unless the body of the 
message states otherwise.

Bretton

I've put aside a Witherby gouge set box, with the sliding lid,
for my ashes.

I plan on internment in Wrenthem, next to Chelor and Nicholson.

Taps will be sounded at the Stanley Plant in New Britain, Connecticut
and at the Falls in Millers Falls, Massachusetts.

I'm really not asking for much, just a little respect...

Gary

>>> "Bretton Wade"  01/28 1:48 PM >>>
Gary describes stage 14 of the Galoot's Progress:

> are those items that I will never let go of (I have plans to be
cremated
> with my Rice patented square/level/plane/marking gauge/bevel) but
there

Otherwise known as "taking it with you." Let us know if that works
for you Gary!

--
Bretton Wade (aka Noz Moe King) http://www.galoot-coop.org/

It's nice occasionally to give some of these old friends away as
presents too. My Brother In Law
has been the recipient of a few of my tools. He's paid for some but
others have just been
slipped in for him to try.  After all what's the real cost? Mainly your
time and at least you
get the chance to influence the new owner. 

Steve Forman. 

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Gary R. Roberts [SMTP:GRRoberts@g...]

	In these years I've learned to let go of stuff as much as
possible. There are those items that I will never let go of (I have
plans to be cremated with my Rice patented square/level/plane/marking
gauge/bevel) but there are more that I will pass on to others.

	There is considerable pleasure to be derived from watching
someone else purchase something that you have cared for, cleaned,
conserved and put back in working order. Watch how delighted that person
is when they win the item. You know that your original purchase has gone
on to a good home where it will be valued.

	Gary
	

> >...................
> >I can't believe there's not a person on this list who doesn't
> >have a box or a shelf of "early purchases" stashed away somewhere,
> >which --like Frank pointed out-- would only go for a pittance
> >of the price that was paid for them.
>
> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    You know I got thinking about this and I have to honestly say I don't
think  I ever bought something that I couldn't sell for at least close to
what I paid for it.The possible exception might be something with undetected
damage but even then often I have gotten out from under it by selling it for
parts,[sometimes doing better then if I sold a undamaged whole tool!] I have
to admit from the get go I bought a good many books, did some studying and
I'm the type of guy that doesn't like to spend much on something that he
doesn't know about and this probably helped me from getting hurt.Sure I
might spend  a couple of bucks on something that I don't know about that
looks good and I think is worth a chance but I am always surprised to see
people shell out the bucks for stuff they obviously don't know anything
about.This has ranged from watching someone pay $25 for a common molding
plane with the wrong cutter in it to some slow head paying $2,000 for a fake
powder horn!
 Now the opposite side of the coin is that I do regret not buying allot of
stuff that I should had bought.There was that no 1 at auction I went to $200
on but I wasn't 100% convinced it wasn't a repo.I only had a few seconds to
look at it before bidding and I didn't know for sure...Now I think it was
genuine and that I messed up.
   Now if you want to make $ at selling tools you do have to know what to
buy.I once had a fellow tell me all that is needed to make a profit in
selling tools is to buy them at a small auction and then sell them at a
bigger auction,[in this case he was talking about the ebay]. Well now that
is just slow head talking,[and a bet from a person that doesn't sell many
tools!] as I often see tools sell for WAY more at local small auctions then
they would ever go for on ebay.I go to an auction where rough wood jointers
will sell for $20-$30 and a rusted broke 45 will hit $125 a good bit,
anybody here think you could sell these for a profit on the ebay?
  I always tell people before they ever buy a tool they should do some
reading and research and in the long run they will be out ahead.If I had
$100 in my tool buying budget I would spend $50 on books before ever buying
a tool......at least that is what has worked for me......Todd

--=====================_5423749==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 04:08 PM 1/30/02, Minch wrote:
>The Bedrock 604-1/2C at $225
>The complete 55 with one blade for $110 - cam included
>The Hammecher-Schlemmer carriage rabbet at $90
>The M-F new in the box #6 size - curvy rosewood handles - $75
>The 10-1/2 bench rabbet with low knob for #75
>
>Not to mention a few things that I set down, Todd picked up, and I watched
>them go on ebay for 10X the price!
>
>Anybody else have regrets?
>
>Ed Minch

Lets see - only as recently as last weekend at the PAST auction where I 
passed up a set of 20 Addis carving tools for about $300 and about 10 other 
good buys I dozed through:o(

Best regards,

Bill

Bill@C...Studio.com
http://www.CraftsmanStudio.com
To do good work, one must first have good tools. - Chinese proverb
--=====================_5423749==_.ALT

Todd wrote:

> Now the opposite side of the coin is that I do regret not buying allot of
> stuff that I should had bought.

Todd makes a good point.  I have many more regrets over tools I didn't buy
than tools I did buy.

The Bedrock 604-1/2C at $225
The complete 55 with one blade for $110 - cam included
The Hammecher-Schlemmer carriage rabbet at $90
The M-F new in the box #6 size - curvy rosewood handles - $75
The 10-1/2 bench rabbet with low knob for #75

Not to mention a few things that I set down, Todd picked up, and I watched
them go on ebay for 10X the price!

Anybody else have regrets?

Ed Minch

Ed asks, "anyone else have any regrets?"

I'll assume you're just referring to old tools, Ed.

I have a mental list of what I've always called "shoulda's" that goes back
about 25 years.  Like the beautiful Ultimatum brace in a Quebec shop, with
an asking price of $50!  That was a lot of $$ for a bottom feeder. Besides,
I was looking for a WOODEN brace, and never having seen or handled ebony, I
thought the darn thing was so heavy it must be metal---not for me.
But for each of those experiences, there's one like the ivory-tipped, Ohio
Tool plow (plough, Jeff) plane in a Cropwell, Ala. shop for $10.--which I
did buy (and didn't even have to kick a widder-lady for it.)
Seems to me it's easier to kick oneself over the missed opportunities than
it is to just sit back and smile over the good ones.

Dan, smiling in NJ

Todd,

Maybe part of my problem is that I am old, or at least it sometimes 
seems that way.  When I started trying to acquire old tools, there were 
no books available to provide price guidelines - at least none that I 
was aware of.  Bartlett's hadn't even come out in those days, and 
Walter's first Stanley book was still a gleam in John's eye.  Dave's 
Sargent price guide was far in the future.  I was stationed in 
Mississippi in those days when I first caught St. Roy's program, and all 
I had to go by was the price tags I saw in the antique stores.  I paid 
what they asked in most cases.  I guess you live and learn, but I really 
can't say I regret the chase for old tools over the years - even those I 
greatly overpaid for.  It has been fun, and continues to be.  And 
sometimes, I even use some of them.  :-)

Frank (Fort Worth Armadillo Works)

Todd Hughes wrote

> I got thinking about this and I have to honestly say I don't
>think  I ever bought something that I couldn't sell for at least close to
>what I paid for it.The possible exception might be something with undetected
>damage but even then often I have gotten out from under it by selling it for
>parts,[sometimes doing better then if I sold a undamaged whole tool!] I have
>to admit from the get go I bought a good many books, did some studying and
>I'm the type of guy that doesn't like to spend much on something that he
>doesn't know about and this probably helped me from getting hurt.
>

Ed Minch wrote:
> Todd makes a good point.  I have many more regrets over tools I didn't buy
> than tools I did buy.
>
> The Bedrock 604-1/2C at $225
> The complete 55 with one blade for $110 - cam included
> The Hammecher-Schlemmer carriage rabbet at $90
> The M-F new in the box #6 size - curvy rosewood handles - $75
> The 10-1/2 bench rabbet with low knob for #75
>
> Not to mention a few things that I set down, Todd picked up, and I watched
> them go on ebay for 10X the price!
>
> Anybody else have regrets?

Regrets?  I have a few but, then again, too few to mention.
Your post did make me glad I picked the #55 complete with cam, box and
one cutter for $60 a couple of weeks ago.  Is there a manual on line for
this thing?

Roger
Buried in the snow in north central Kansas

Roger
Buried in the snow in north central Kansas

Says:  ...I picked the #55 complete with cam, box and
one cutter for $60 a couple of weeks ago.  Is there a manual on line for
this thing?

If not, ping me off-List with your address and I'll send you a Xerox of
one--if the mailman can get through the snow to your house.

Dan, in NJ

> Your post did make me glad I picked the #55 complete with cam, box
and
> one cutter for $60 a couple of weeks ago.  Is there a manual on line
for
> this thing?

Lee Valley sells a reprint of the manuals (originally published
separately) for the 45, 50, and 55 for US $2.75.  {This is the 1940
edition.)  You can find it here:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=44906&category=1,160,42562
&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=

Chuck

Ed Minch wrote,
> A friend of mine - a non-list galoot with a rosewood plow (plough, jeff)
> that I covet - has a theory he calls "the last idiot"
> something is worth what the last idiot will pay for it - I am the last
idiot
> for a whole slew (skew?) of stuff at the bottom of the stairs.

Also known as the 'greater fool'.  Mainstay of the modern art market.

Charlie