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276027 Erik Levin 2022‑07‑30 wood for outdoor handrail
Due to local code and an upcoming inspection (new garage to replace the
partially collapsed structure there now), I need to put a handrail on my entry
stair. Singular. The landing is less than 8 inches above grade and does not need
a rail, but to make it look not terribly horrid, I will have about 3 feet of
rail overall. I don't want to do the off-the-shelf pressure-treated crap, and
was wondering what you would use on your porch (get it? nudge nudge wink wink)
as the material and finish.

Detail: The wood will be about 1" thick and 2-1/2" wide on top of wrought iron
flat, so pretty much anything is in play. I am looking for appearance and
durable over time, not strength in and of itself. (the cross section is
compliant with the code as grabbable and the design is compliant as structurally
sound to prevent fall. There is no practical way to go to all-wood due to
existing conditions)

Ideas?

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276028 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2022‑07‑30 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
White oak?

Don

On 2022-07-30 3:44 p.m., Erik Levin via groups.io wrote:
> Due to local code and an upcoming inspection (new garage to replace the
partially collapsed structure there now), I need to put a handrail on my entry
stair. Singular. The landing is less than 8 inches above grade and does not need
a rail, but to make it look not terribly horrid, I will have about 3 feet of
rail overall. I don't want to do the off-the-shelf pressure-treated crap, and
was wondering what you would use on your porch (get it? nudge nudge wink wink)
as the material and finish.
>
> Detail: The wood will be about 1" thick and 2-1/2" wide on top of wrought iron
flat, so pretty much anything is in play. I am looking for appearance and
durable over time, not strength in and of itself. (the cross section is
compliant with the code as grabbable and the design is compliant as structurally
sound to prevent fall. There is no practical way to go to all-wood due to
existing conditions)
>
> Ideas?
>
> *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address
>
>
> 
>
>

-- 

God's away on business - Tom Waits

"...it's just a humpty dumpty world" - Ry Cooder
276029 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2022‑07‑30 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
5/4 ipe or galvanized pipe?
276030 Bill Ghio 2022‑07‑30 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
I used Cypress hand rail from the lumber yard for my porch steps. Painted to
match the rest of the porch. For the handrail on the bridge over the creek
(drainage ditch) that divides our property I used Sapele finished with a marine
varnish. It won’t be overwhelming to refresh every year or so.

Bill
276031 Spike <spikethebike@c...> 2022‑07‑30 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Ebony would add a touch of class….

 Best, Spike

Sent from the seat of my pants
276032 the_tinker <tinker@z...> 2022‑07‑30 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Locust. It will outlast the concrete sidewalk.
276033 Erik Levin 2022‑07‑30 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
White oak is one good thought, definitely, but what finish? Lots of sun and
weather. The price is right, and it is tough enough for many years of hand grab.

Ebony? Classy for sure, and it would be a good match for the iron, but that
would be about $US500, which is a bit much for my pocket.

Galv pipe? Sacrilege! Ipe, maybe. I spent too much of my work life with galv
pipe rails, stanchions, steps, and and so on. Not at my home.

I don't like sapele for a handrail. It is too allergenic for direct hand contact
for my taste, no matter how rich the and warm it looks in many other
applications.

Cypress, is in the running. Finish for it? The piece will be the top inch or so
with direct exposure to all elements.

If you are wondering WHY I am going this way, I have the iron on hand, can
fabricate it easily to meet the strength requirements without needing to do much
other than build and mount, and the material I have gives me the opportunity for
hand-formed wood cap over the iron for a nice contrast with a little class. Full
wood will be a LOT more time, money, and difficulty to mount and meet strength.
Much more obtrusive, as well.

Thanks for the ideas so far. I need to start the fab of the iron tomorrow, so I
can get it mounted before mid-week (initial site inspection may be that soon, or
may not be. They don't tell me, since it isn't inside), but I should have a
couple weeks before the wood cap goes on to make it compliant as a `grab', so I
have the time to do a good finish.


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On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 06:09:07 PM EDT, Don Schwartz  wrote: 





White oak?

Don
276034 gary allan may 2022‑07‑31 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
A boat repair yard will have small pieces of teak, well around here, they will.
Much teak comes off old boats and isn't seaworthy any longer--

gluck widdat----gm in OlyWA


How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen 

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 04:35:57 PM PDT, Erik Levin via groups.io
 wrote:
 
 White oak is one good thought, definitely, but what finish? Lots of sun and
weather. The price is right, and it is tough enough for many years of hand grab.

Ebony? Classy for sure, and it would be a good match for the iron, but that
would be about $US500, which is a bit much for my pocket.

Galv pipe? Sacrilege! Ipe, maybe. I spent too much of my work life with galv
pipe rails, stanchions, steps, and and so on. Not at my home.

I don't like sapele for a handrail. It is too allergenic for direct hand contact
for my taste, no matter how rich the and warm it looks in many other
applications.

Cypress, is in the running. Finish for it? The piece will be the top inch or so
with direct exposure to all elements.

If you are wondering WHY I am going this way, I have the iron on hand, can
fabricate it easily to meet the strength requirements without needing to do much
other than build and mount, and the material I have gives me the opportunity for
hand-formed wood cap over the iron for a nice contrast with a little class. Full
wood will be a LOT more time, money, and difficulty to mount and meet strength.
Much more obtrusive, as well.

Thanks for the ideas so far. I need to start the fab of the iron tomorrow, so I
can get it mounted before mid-week (initial site inspection may be that soon, or
may not be. They don't tell me, since it isn't inside), but I should have a
couple weeks before the wood cap goes on to make it compliant as a `grab', so I
have the time to do a good finish.


*** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address






On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 06:09:07 PM EDT, Don Schwartz  wrote: 





White oak?

Don
276035 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2022‑07‑31 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Agreed!  It's black locust that will "outlast the concrete" but honey
locust is also durable, and a pleasant wood to work with.  And it is
commercially available, though the locust I have is stuff I've harvested
myself. 

Mike in Woodland
276036 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2022‑07‑31 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
I haven’t seen larch or cedar mentioned.  Good for outdoors, readily available,
and with an oil or marine varnish on the right piece of timber they can look
good.

Richard Wilson

> On 30 Jul 2022, at 22:44, Erik Levin via groups.io 
wrote:
> 
> Detail: The wood will be about 1" thick and 2-1/2" wide on top of wrought iron
flat, so pretty much anything is in play. I am looking for appearance and
durable over time, not strength in and of itself. (the cross section is
compliant with the code as grabbable and the design is compliant as structurally
sound to prevent fall. There is no practical way to go to all-wood due to
existing conditions)
> 
> Ideas?
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
276044 Phil E. <pedgerton66@g...> 2022‑08‑01 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Here in the Appalachians they used  rived locust a lot for fence
posts. They said to leave a fist sized stone on top of the post. "And
when the stone rots, it's time to replace the post." Believe it! (or
not).

Phil E.
276046 Kirk Eppler 2022‑08‑01 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
White oak would be my 1st thought, then ipe as a second.  Ipe has been a
bit splintery in some applications, but the ironwood nickname fits.

Redwood is nice, but wears quickly, as does cedar, so guess it depends on
how long before you expect to replace it.  The redwood is nicer on the hand
than the cedar.

Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA, digging a path through the incomplete projects
in the garage.

On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 2:44 PM Erik Levin via groups.io  wrote:

> Due to local code and an upcoming inspection (new garage to replace the
> partially collapsed structure there now), I need to put a handrail on my
> entry stair. Singular. The landing is less than 8 inches above grade and
> does not need a rail, but to make it look not terribly horrid, I will have
> about 3 feet of rail overall. I don't want to do the off-the-shelf
> pressure-treated crap, and was wondering what you would use on your porch
> (get it? nudge nudge wink wink) as the material and finish.
>
> Detail: The wood will be about 1" thick and 2-1/2" wide on top of wrought
> iron flat, so pretty much anything is in play. I am looking for appearance
> and durable over time, not strength in and of itself. (the cross section is
> compliant with the code as grabbable and the design is compliant as
> structurally sound to prevent fall. There is no practical way to go to
> all-wood due to existing conditions)
>
> Ideas?
>
>
>


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 
276048 Patrick Olguin <paddychulo@g...> 2022‑08‑01 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Erik is wondering about exterior wood handrails...

Where are the boat people and mahogany? Did I miss it?
You can let it weather, sand it-and-oil-it when it starts to fade (you said
it's kind of an eensy weensy railing, yes?), hit it with spar varnish here
and there to keep it looking ship-shape (see what I did there?). I don't
know what the likelihood of finding it is, but q-sawn *anything* will cut
way down on the splintering, regardless of the species (I'm also on board
with the teak recommendations.. more nautical puns, this one
unintentional).

Best,
Paddy - looking outside and noticing that it's time for the annual
freshening-up of the faux-teak patio furniture.
276049 gary allan may 2022‑08‑02 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Hi Phil!

  Out here in Western Washington there are often rows of huge black locusts
planted exactly as far apart as fence posts ought to be, which is completely
unsurprising once you learn that they were set as fence posts fifty or a hundred
years ago and bloomed  into life in the spring after they were planted. I have
never worked with the stuff, but I hope to, someday.

                 best to all galoots, everywhere; gam in OlyWA


How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen 

    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 09:52:30 AM PDT, Phil E. 
wrote:
 
 Here in the Appalachians they used  rived locust a lot for fence
posts. They said to leave a fist sized stone on top of the post. "And
when the stone rots, it's time to replace the post." Believe it! (or
not).

Phil E.
276051 Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> 2022‑08‑02 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
On Aug 1, 2022, at 9:36 PM, gary allan may via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
>   Out here in Western Washington there are often rows of huge black locusts
planted exactly as far apart as fence posts ought to be, which is completely
unsurprising once you learn that they were set as fence posts fifty or a hundred
years ago and bloomed  into life in the spring after they were planted. I have
never worked with the stuff, but I hope to, someday.

Are you saying that they planted small trees (that grew into large trees) to be
fence posts, or that the locust posts set in the ground took root?

Wondering, since I just set a small locust trunk in the ground as a post for our
bird feeder, and if it takes root and grows it is kind of close to the house
;-).  It does have a couple branches that sprouted since it was cut.

andrew
276052 galoot@l... 2022‑08‑02 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
You might be surprised at how well fresh green locust can root.  Also  
how fast you get beanpoles from a four foot tall stump...

Esther at pennsic checking in on the world.

Quoting Andrew Heybey :
276053 Adam R. Maxwell 2022‑08‑02 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
> On Aug 1, 2022, at 18:36 , gary allan may via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
>   Out here in Western Washington there are often rows of huge black locusts
planted exactly as far apart as fence posts ought to be, which is completely
unsurprising once you learn that they were set as fence posts fifty or a hundred
years ago and bloomed  into life in the spring after they were planted. I have
never worked with the stuff, but I hope to, someday.

Growing up in western WA, we used cedar power poles for fence posts, since dad
used to get them from work, and we'd split them. I'd never seen a locust tree
until we moved to the eastern side of the state and helped some friends clean up
after a wind storm: I grabbed a piece of locust and learned that it had 2"
thorns that could go right through a leather glove.

Lots of great recommendations here. My deck stair has cedar handrails that have
held up better than the decking itself, but I'd hesitate to run my hands up and
down it.

Adam, sweltering in the desert of Benton City, WA
276054 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2022‑08‑02 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Agree with Black Locust.  Lasts over 100 years as fence posts around here.

-- Claudio

On Sat., Jul. 30, 2022, 7:12 p.m. the_tinker, 
wrote:
276061 the_tinker <tinker@z...> 2022‑08‑03 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Ok. Here's my Black Locust story-

Years ago my wife said she would like a genuine stacked rail fence to
border our rustic backyard. I had a friend who was building a few houses
in a new development on former farmland (US suburban eyesore, Jeff).
Every property had locust trees on it. He had the excavators save the
trunks in random lengths and my friend and I would split them with
wedges and sledges and haul them to my place and start stacking. Took
all summer but my wife got exactly what she wanted. Gained a whole new
respect for Abe Lincoln that summer. The only maintenance I do is every
few years I lift the corners with a spud bar and slide a new sandstone
rock underneath because the winter freeze/thaw and the weight of the
fence pushes them into the ground. The rock stacks have to be near the
frost line now because the fence is almost 30 years old. Lots of moss
and lichen on it but the wood is as dense and solid as it ever was.

https://mega.nz/file/cIsCwAwL#5Xytk0a9L-vYXnYmhhd4CTBDeYwMOFsIXHmIn6Q_bC4

-JP
276062 Erik Levin 2022‑08‑04 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I have a local source for sapele, and may go
with that, but have a slight worry about skin sensitivity.

Black locust sounds like a wonderful option, and I will need to see if a local
source has availability and do some pricing.

Ipe is a third choice, as I have no good source locally and the difficult
workability.

Any concern for any of these in large area contact with wrought iron? Are any of
these impractical to work with hand planes for shaping, hollows and rounds for
detail? The rail is iron (flat top) and the wood will be applied to the top for
appearance and surface feel.


(progress is a bit behind as the concrete I am mounting to is has quartz, or
similar, aggregate and will require wet abrasive boring, and I got called back
to work, so fitup is now spare time if I can find any, once I call in a favour
to bore for mounting studs. Oh well)

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276063 Bill Ghio 2022‑08‑04 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
> On Aug 4, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Erik Levin via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I have a local source for sapele, and may
go with that, but have a slight worry about skin sensitivity.
> 
> Black locust sounds like a wonderful option, and I will need to see if a local
source has availability and do some pricing.
> 
> Ipe is a third choice, as I have no good source locally and the difficult
workability.
> 
> Any concern for any of these in large area contact with wrought iron? Are any
of these impractical to work with hand planes for shaping, hollows and rounds
for detail? The rail is iron (flat top) and the wood will be applied to the top
for appearance and surface feel.
> 

Ipe is very tough to work with hand tools and I found files to be helpful for
fie tuning a joint. I have not had any issues with skin sensitivity but the dust
is bad, I only sanded it with a respirator on after my first experience. Locust
and Sapele are easier to work w/ hand tools and I have had no reaction to the
woods. YMMV. My recollection is that Ipe wants stainless screws when used for
decks and other outdoor applications so you might want to do some research on
how it reacts to metal contact.

Bill
276064 Bill Kasper <dragon01list@g...> 2022‑08‑04 Re: wood for outdoor handrail
i built a 22'x22' deck with an ipe surface, and it certainly prefers
stainless screws (otherwise it will stain).  however, you MUST predrill
every hole.  even paraffined screws would spin off their heads if the hole
wasn't predrilled.

if you're going to use any wood on iron that has been wrought (i hope you
wouldn't hide actual wrought iron), be sure to hit the contact surface of
the metal with a good coat of oil-based metal paint, after appropriately
treating the metal to an etchant.  water WILL get through to the mating
surface, and you want to do what you can to keep it from rusting.

best,
bill
felton, ca

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 2:52 PM Bill Ghio via groups.io  wrote:

Recent Bios FAQ