OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

274526 sushimonster 2021‑09‑07 Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
Galoots!

I've found this small brass calliper, which looks finely made. It seems to date
from when units of measurement varied across Europe, before widespread adoption
of the metric system - as it records measurement for Baden (German province
which used the Zoll, Fuss or Elle unit), Switzerland (Similar to Baden,
depending on region) and Paris ( the Elle), from the little I can find on this.

As far as I know, Paris was one of the first areas of France to go metric in
1795 - which hints that this piece could be quite early? I'm assuming that
"BRUDER" stamped on the end might be the maker's mark, but I've never heard of
the name Bruder as a tool or instrument maker?

Has anyone come across other tools baring the name Bruder at all? It's a nice
little find, so I'd really like to fill in some knowledge gaps about it if I
can, before I store it away in the very crowded "Mysteries I haven't solved yet"
draw :)

...but then there's that strange dot under the D. Does that mean an abbreviation
of the name, or is it just a random mark in the brass? Apologies about my rusty
German knowledge - it's been a while since I took it at school.

https://groups.io/g/oldtools/album?id=267887
274527 Kirk Eppler 2021‑09‑07 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
The site for vintage German toolmaker research is Wolfgang Jordan's site, a
member here.

He does not have Bruder in his DB.

https://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/markensuche.phtml

Krik in Half Moon Bay, at least that's how someone else spelled it this
morning.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 9:29 AM sushimonster via groups.io  wrote:

>
> I've found this small brass calliper, which looks finely made. It seems to
> date from when units of measurement varied across Europe, before widespread
> adoption of the metric system - as it records measurement for Baden (German
> province which used the Zoll, Fuss or Elle unit), Switzerland (Similar to
> Baden, depending on region) and Paris ( the Elle), from the little I can
> find on this.
>
> As far as I know, Paris was one of the first areas of France to go metric
> in 1795 - which hints that this piece could be quite early? I'm assuming
> that "BRUDER" stamped on the end might be the maker's mark, but I've never
> heard of the name Bruder as a tool or instrument maker?
>
> Has anyone come across other tools baring the name Bruder at all? It's a
> nice little find, so I'd really like to fill in some knowledge gaps about
> it if I can, before I store it away in the very crowded "Mysteries I
> haven't solved yet" draw :)
>
> ...but then there's that strange dot under the D. Does that mean an
> abbreviation of the name, or is it just a random mark in the brass?
> Apologies about my rusty German knowledge - it's been a while since I took
> it at school.
>
> https://groups.io/g/oldtools/album?id=267887
>
>
>
-- 
Kirk Eppler
274528 sushimonster 2021‑09‑07 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
Wow - thanks for the super speedy reply Kirk!

Great link - thanks. I'm maybe now thinking that it's two words? Brud - being
short for 'Bruder' or 'Brothers', and then 'Er' being an abbreviation of a
longer name maybe?
274529 Kirk Eppler 2021‑09‑07 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
The book pdf pg 34 has a reference to a Hermann Bruder, looks like he is in
many businesses, but this one looks like an Iron works If I;m reading
abbreviations correctly.  Also, the tool has the look of many German Silver
drafting tools, so maybe determining the German word for drafting, and
googling like below.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Adressbuch_aller_L%C3%A4nder_der_Erde_der_K
a/XRx9sYiVUvkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22bruder%22+werkzeug+%22baden%22+%22schweiz%22&p
g=RA1-PA34&printsec=frontcover


Image of vintage drafting stuff front and center here

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-DBPgTLj

Kirk in HMB, where the chainsaws and tree chippers are revving up for
another day of meeting interrupting.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 9:29 AM sushimonster via groups.io  wrote:

> Galoots!
>
> I've found this small brass calliper, which looks finely made. It seems to
> date from when units of measurement varied across Europe, before widespread
> adoption of the metric system - as it records measurement for Baden (German
> province which used the Zoll, Fuss or Elle unit), Switzerland (Similar to
> Baden, depending on region) and Paris ( the Elle), from the little I can
> find on this.
>
> As far as I know, Paris was one of the first areas of France to go metric
> in 1795 - which hints that this piece could be quite early? I'm assuming
> that "BRUDER" stamped on the end might be the maker's mark, but I've never
> heard of the name Bruder as a tool or instrument maker?
>
> Has anyone come across other tools baring the name Bruder at all? It's a
> nice little find, so I'd really like to fill in some knowledge gaps about
> it if I can, before I store it away in the very crowded "Mysteries I
> haven't solved yet" draw :)
>
> ...but then there's that strange dot under the D. Does that mean an
> abbreviation of the name, or is it just a random mark in the brass?
> Apologies about my rusty German knowledge - it's been a while since I took
> it at school.
>
> https://groups.io/g/oldtools/album?id=267887
>
>

-- 
Kirk Eppler
274531 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2021‑09‑07 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
Kirk,

> Image of vintage drafting stuff front and center here
> 
> https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-DBPgTLj

I showed that picture to my GF and she said," OMG! There ARE people that are
worse than you! "

John Ruth
Who, on Sunday, hit an indoor flea, an outdoor flea, and a sale at a sort of an
overgrown junkyard.
274534 Brian Ward <bri@a...> 2021‑09‑08 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
This might be Swiss, given that it says "Schweiz" (Switzerland) on it. There's a
Baden in the north there up by Zuerich. I have no idea about the N ("nord?) and
the U ("umgang? unter? ueber?"). The Bruder looks like a proper name, being
without dots over the u.

I can't seem to find anything under searches with Schieblehre or Messschieber
that matching a caliper.

Regarding metric, it took a little while for SI to make its way across the
continent. According to our ever-reliable wikipedia, Switzerland made it
compulsory in 1877.
274535 Erik Levin 2021‑09‑08 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
Is it possible to give dimensions, maybe take a couple pics with modern rules
aligned with the scales?

*** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address
274539 Troy Livingston <horologist@w...> 2021‑09‑11 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
My wife got a chuckle out of John's comment but currently has no 
complaints about my scrounging. More in another email to follow.

I did stumble on another of Kirk's photos that showed some miscellaneous 
clock tools and offer the following identifications in the off chance 
that he hasn't already sorted it out.

Detail of photo here:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/91137513@N.../51444609543/in/dateposted-public/>

1. The items in the wooden box are clock movement assembly posts with a 
bracket that will let you hang the assembled movement for testing. I 
have a set of these but didn't care for them. For movement assembly I 
find them awkward and they make nasty marks on the plates. For assembly 
it is hard to beat the cardboard tube from a roll of packing tape. 
Although I do have a nesting set of wood rings that I really like.

2. This is a tool for adjusting the beat on anniversary clocks (400 day 
clocks). Everyone knows that clocks need to be level, but actually the 
critical thing is for them to be in beat. Grossly simplified, to be in 
beat means the interval between the "tick and tock" must be equal. I 
think i might have one of these but can't say too much about these tools 
as I was made to swear never to work on anniversary clocks.

3. A Waltham watch mainspring gauge. Used to measure the thickness and 
width of watch mainsprings. I've never used mine. Have better ways to 
measure such things. But still it is a cool tool.

4. A traditional mainspring winder for watches or small clocks. Hard to 
date, could be anywhere from 19th century into the early 20th.

5. I'm not sure it is hard to judge by the photo. It is similar in 
construction to my Ollie Baker clock mainspring winder. The manual did 
have some photos of accessories that could be purchased but I haven't 
seen the paperwork for years and haven't the foggiest idea of where it 
could be. There were a couple of manufacturers who made tools with 
similar construction but a quick scan though old catalogs turned up 
nothing. It could be part of a movement holding system. But then may be 
something entirely unrelated to clock work.

Troy
274541 Kirk Eppler 2021‑09‑11 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
Troy
Thank you sir, some comments on your comments

1.  I figured these might make nice clamps for small work if I never
expected to use them as intended. Didn’t know what it was at the time, nor
until about 20 mins ago. Good to know at least one person won’t be upset if
I misappropriated their tool.

2. Would never have guessed. My first trip through my Otto Young catalog
drew a blank, Otto Frei was to be my next attempt, then try to find
something in the middle age wise if that failed.

3. This one, with the huge name on it, was easy.  I doubt I would ever have
a use for it, but 1/1000 “ calipers and micrometer and digital whatnots are
not nearly as cool as the technology used on that.

4. winder as in maker, or wind before installing (my guess).?  The seller
thought for weekly winding the clock, but I have a key for that.

5. This one I am pretty sure is unrelated to clock work.  I think it’s
quite a bit newer than the rest, and says Sharpen on end and, and Burnish
on the other, of the little flippy thing your 5 landed on.  The knob seems
to open and close it to hold a flat file.  There was an Oregon chainsaw
sharpening piece at that sale that I left behind.  Figured I could reuse
pieces of this.

I appreciate the expertise.  Our local luthier Greg I has shown us a few
cool tools he has made that could solve a problem or two, so I grab
anything inexpensive from the jeweler and horological trades for small
work, cuz you never know what you might need.  My watch holding clamp has
saved me on earbud repairs before.

Here’s another fun image of some dull knives I acquired.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-Z774jr4

A few years back, I found a knife with a short second blade, fairly dull,
so I sharpened it up, only to find out a few years later it was a watch
case opening tool, and sharp wasn’t very smart.  Turns out it wears the
Favorite brand, same as one of these.  Think it’s the obverse of the Green
Guild tool

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-Z774jr4

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-jmzVsJw

Thanks again
Kirk in Half Moon Bay, CA, who will try to make John Ruth look good, by
comparison, again tomorrow.



On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 7:21 PM Troy Livingston 
wrote:

> My wife got a chuckle out of John's comment but currently has no
> complaints about my scrounging. More in another email to follow.
>
> I did stumble on another of Kirk's photos that showed some miscellaneous
> clock tools and offer the following identifications in the off chance
> that he hasn't already sorted it out.
>
> Detail of photo here:
> <
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/91137513@N.../51444609543/in/dateposted-public/
> >
>
> 1. The items in the wooden box are clock movement assembly posts with a
> bracket that will let you hang the assembled movement for testing. I
> have a set of these but didn't care for them. For movement assembly I
> find them awkward and they make nasty marks on the plates. For assembly
> it is hard to beat the cardboard tube from a roll of packing tape.
> Although I do have a nesting set of wood rings that I really like.
>
> 2. This is a tool for adjusting the beat on anniversary clocks (400 day
> clocks). Everyone knows that clocks need to be level, but actually the
> critical thing is for them to be in beat. Grossly simplified, to be in
> beat means the interval between the "tick and tock" must be equal. I
> think i might have one of these but can't say too much about these tools
> as I was made to swear never to work on anniversary clocks.
>
> 3. A Waltham watch mainspring gauge. Used to measure the thickness and
> width of watch mainsprings. I've never used mine. Have better ways to
> measure such things. But still it is a cool tool.
>
> 4. A traditional mainspring winder for watches or small clocks. Hard to
> date, could be anywhere from 19th century into the early 20th.
>
> 5. I'm not sure it is hard to judge by the photo. It is similar in
> construction to my Ollie Baker clock mainspring winder. The manual did
> have some photos of accessories that could be purchased but I haven't
> seen the paperwork for years and haven't the foggiest idea of where it
> could be. There were a couple of manufacturers who made tools with
> similar construction but a quick scan though old catalogs turned up
> nothing. It could be part of a movement holding system. But then may be
> something entirely unrelated to clock work.
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 9/7/2021 2:45 PM, John Ruth wrote:
> > Kirk,
> >
> >> Image of vintage drafting stuff front and center here
> >>
> >> https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-DBPgTLj
> > I showed that picture to my GF and she said," OMG! There ARE people that
> are worse than you! "
> >
> > John Ruth
> > Who, on Sunday, hit an indoor flea, an outdoor flea, and a sale at a
> sort of an overgrown junkyard.
> >
> >
>
> --
Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors. Kirk
274543 Troy Livingston <horologist@w...> 2021‑09‑11 Re: Anyone know German tool makers of the past? #photo-notice
Kirk,

Clocks and watches with trains driven by a mainspring typically house
the spring in a barrel. When you overhaul them you remove the spring to
clean, inspect and lubricate, then it goes back into the barrel. This is
possible to do by hand but can distort "cone" the spring and is
generally considered bad form. The mainspring winder is the tool used to
remove and reinstall the springs into the barrels. There are a wide
range of sizes and shapes for these tools.

Thanks for the clarification on 5 and I'm glad you have it sorted out.

Watch movement holders can be handy for all sorts of things. I have
quite a few and made good use of one at work to hold an irregular shaped
object in a 3 D scanner.

An impressive assortment of case knives, you have me beat. I must
scrounge more!

Troy

On 9/11/2021 2:08 AM, Kirk Eppler via groups.io wrote:



Recent Bios FAQ