OldTools Archive

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273893 Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> 2021‑06‑09 Stanley 71 #photo-notice
https://groups.io/g/oldtools/album?id=264974

I came into possession of a Stanley 71 router. Although it came with a blade, it
was a beat-up and I had some gift cards to Lee Valley so I bought some new
blades for it (1/2" straight, 1/2" spear-point, and the 3/4" blade). It says on
the Lee Valley website that these blades fit the Stanley #71 router planes...
with the height-adjustment nut inverted. Therein lies the rub -- my 71 doesn't
have a height-adjustment mechanism. And the new Lee Valley blades are just a
hair too thick. So, my questions are:
1. why doesn't my 71 have the height adjustment mechanism? Is this something
older versions of the 71 didn't have, or is mine incomplete?
2. In order to make the blades fit on this 71, should I make the inside diameter
of the collar a bit bigger or the outside diameter of the three blades a bit
smaller?

Thanks,
Dan

-- 
I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.
273895 Chris Wolf <hframe79001@g...> 2021‑06‑09 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Yours appears to be a Type 2 (1885-88) or Type 3 (1888-92), which did not
have the cutter adjustment wheel.
--Chris 

Check out H-frame, the site for vintage Black & Decker Workmates:
https://h-frame.weebly.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools@g... [mailto:oldtools@g...] On Behalf Of Dan Beck
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2021 2:49 PM
To: oldtools@g...
Subject: [oldtools] Stanley 71 #photo-notice


1. why doesn't my 71 have the height adjustment mechanism? Is this something
older versions of the 71 didn't have, or is mine incomplete?
273899 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2021‑06‑09 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Dan,

To me, this is a no-brainer: rather than destroy the historic fabric of a 19th-
century tool, alter the new blades.

Rationale: You can get all the Lee Valley blades you want, but once you alter
that old Stanley, it's authenticity is gone forever. They ain't making no more
of 'em, at least not Type 2's!

John Ruth
273900 Troy Livingston <horologist@w...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Motion seconded. In my clock repairs I spend about half of my bench time 
repairing previous repairs. The first rule in clock repair is to make 
the repair part fit the clock, not the other way around. Seems like it 
would apply to tools as well.

Troy
273901 Chuck Taylor 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Dan, you wrote:

======
I came into possession of a Stanley 71 router. Although it came with a blade, it
was a beat-up and I had some gift cards to Lee Valley so I bought some new
blades for it (1/2" straight, 1/2" spear-point, and the 3/4" blade). It says on
the Lee Valley website that these blades fit the Stanley #71 router planes...
with the height-adjustment nut inverted. Therein lies the rub -- my 71 doesn't
have a height-adjustment mechanism. And the new Lee Valley blades are just a
hair too thick.
======

The Lee Valley blades fit fine in my Stanley 71-1/2 (Patent date 10-29-01),
which does have a height-adjustment mechanism.

My recommendation (probably heretical to some) is to buy a new Veritas router
plane from Lee Valley to go with the Veritas blades you already bought. While
Stanley router planes are fine tools, I find that the Veritas router plane in
practice simply works better. The adjustment mechanism is more precise and is
easier to use. With the Veritas, it is easy to set a max depth and then sneak up
on it.

The height-adjustment mechanism, although nice to have, is not really necessary.
My wooden router planes do not have a height-adjustment mechanism other than a
hammer and a wedge, and they work fine. A nice workaround to a screw-driven
height-adjustment mechanism is to use two router planes: one set for the final
depth and one to sneak up on that depth. Just another reason why a Galoot needs
more than one of each tool.

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle USA
273902 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
I'm not positive I'm right about this ( there are so many ways to be 
wrong! ), but I think that the lateral cutting ability of the large LV 
router makes it a rare bird. It can cut to within 1/8in or so of a 
vertical surface, as you might do when repairing an old chest whose 
drawers have worn ruts in the blades upon which they are resting. With a 
slightly wider custom blade, you may be able to cut flush to a vertical. 
The only other router I know of which may be able to do that is a large 
Preston.

FWIW
Don



   On 2021-06-09 8:29 p.m., Chuck Taylor via groups.io wrote:
> Dan, you wrote:
>
> ======
> I came into possession of a Stanley 71 router. Although it came with a blade,
it was a beat-up and I had some gift cards to Lee Valley so I bought some new
blades for it (1/2" straight, 1/2" spear-point, and the 3/4" blade). It says on
the Lee Valley website that these blades fit the Stanley #71 router planes...
with the height-adjustment nut inverted. Therein lies the rub -- my 71 doesn't
have a height-adjustment mechanism. And the new Lee Valley blades are just a
hair too thick.
> ======
>
> The Lee Valley blades fit fine in my Stanley 71-1/2 (Patent date 10-29-01),
which does have a height-adjustment mechanism.
>
> My recommendation (probably heretical to some) is to buy a new Veritas router
plane from Lee Valley to go with the Veritas blades you already bought. While
Stanley router planes are fine tools, I find that the Veritas router plane in
practice simply works better. The adjustment mechanism is more precise and is
easier to use. With the Veritas, it is easy to set a max depth and then sneak up
on it.
>
> The height-adjustment mechanism, although nice to have, is not really
necessary. My wooden router planes do not have a height-adjustment mechanism
other than a hammer and a wedge, and they work fine. A nice workaround to a
screw-driven height-adjustment mechanism is to use two router planes: one set
for the final depth and one to sneak up on that depth. Just another reason why a
Galoot needs more than one of each tool.
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck Taylor
> north of Seattle USA
>
>
>   
>
>
> 
>
>

-- 
Social networks are free, but you are the product.  (Popular Information)

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is
not to stop questioning.”  - Albert Einstein
273903 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Chuck wrote

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 10:29 PM, Chuck Taylor via groups.io
 wrote:
> 
> The height-adjustment mechanism, although nice to have, is not really
necessary. My wooden router planes do not have a height-adjustment mechanism
other than a hammer and a wedge, and they work fine. A nice workaround to a
screw-driven height-adjustment mechanism is to use two router planes: one set
for the final depth and one to sneak up on that depth. Just another reason why a
Galoot needs more than one of each tool.


And don't forget that the one yuo have set at final depth makes a great marking
guage for anything that depth

Ed Minch
273904 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
My Stanley (later with depth adjusgter) allows yhou to remove the blade and
holding thingy and flip them so the blade is out front

Ed Minch
273905 Bill Ghio 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
My two cents: I sold off my Stanley routers several years ago. Too much blade
wandering/slop. What I kept were the large and small Preston routers and added
the LV. The LV is precise and has a wider variety of blades available. I choose
the LV over the Lie Nielsen but the LN is probably as good a choice. I painted a
little red spot on the height adjusting wheel so I could visually gauge small
adjustments.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../20045471351/in/album-721576563331936
06/

Bill
273906 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Well now you’re just bragging- not that there is naything wrong with that

Ed Minch
273907 Stephen Rosenthal <srosenthal26@g...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
My story is similar to Bill’s. I had a Stanley that was frustrating to use due
to the same blade slop/wandering issues. No amount of fettling cured it’s
ailments. Always kept my eyes peeled for a Preston or Tyzack, but the few that
became available were way out of my price range. Then I attended a LN hand tool
event, tried their router planes and bought the large and small on the spot.
Couldn’t sell the Stanley fast enough. (I did inform the buyer of the issues,
but for $25…) I might have bought the Veritas because of the extensive blade
options had I taken the time to research it, but the LNs were hot in my hands
and are a pleasure to use.

For a while Walke Moore was producing a large router plane based on the Preston,
but had innumerable manufacturing issues which caused them to cease production
of it for three years or so. I just looked at their website and see where they
are now offering an updated version again, albeit sold out with more “coming
soon”.

Stephen
273908 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
But not sideways for lateral cutting, right?
Don

On 2021-06-10 4:04 a.m., Ed Minch wrote:
> My Stanley (later with depth adjusgter) allows yhou to remove the 
> blade and holding thingy and flip them so the blade is out front
>
> Ed Minch
>
>> On Jun 10, 2021, at 3:01 AM, Don Schwartz > <mailto:dks@t...>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm not positive I'm right about this ( there are so many ways to be 
>> wrong! ), but I think that the lateral cutting ability of the large 
>> LV router makes it a rare bird. It can cut to within 1/8in or so of a 
>> vertical surface, as you might do when repairing an old chest whose 
>> drawers have worn ruts in the blades upon which they are resting. 
>> With a slightly wider custom blade, you may be able to cut flush to a 
>> vertical. The only other router I know of which may be able to do 
>> that is a large Preston.
>>
>> FWIW
>> Don
>

-- 
Social networks are free, but you are the product.  (Popular Information)

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is
not to stop questioning.”  - Albert Einstein
273909 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Since the blade has a square shank, it would fit 4 ways.  In fact mine has small
extensions on the bed out that direction to allow for just such an action.  If
you have the adjustment slot in the blade and did a lot of this work, you could
just extend the cut around the sides to allow for it.

Ed
273910 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
So a small mod to the blade? How close to the long edge of the router 
could the modified blade cut in the right & left directions?

Could you post a photo showing the extensions?

Don


On 2021-06-10 9:24 a.m., Ed Minch wrote:
> Since the blade has a square shank, it would fit 4 ways.  In fact mine 
> has small extensions on the bed out that direction to allow for just 
> such an action.  If you have the adjustment slot in the blade and did 
> a lot of this work, you could just extend the cut around the sides to 
> allow for it.
>
> Ed
>
>> On Jun 10, 2021, at 10:37 AM, Don Schwartz > <mailto:dks@t...>> wrote:
>>
>> But not sideways for lateral cutting, right?
>> Don
>>
>

-- 
Social networks are free, but you are the product.  (Popular Information)

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is
not to stop questioning.”  - Albert Einstein
273911 Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
Thanks again, for all the responses. Knowing that this is indeed an OLD Stanley,
I will not alter the collar.

However, I don't really want to try and alter the blades either. I know this is
a long shot but does anyone have a spare collar that they would be willing to
part with for a reasonable price? I'm guessing not, because it is probably a
part that often gets misplaced and therefore they are in high demand but just
thought I'd ask.

Also, does anyone know if the Veritas collar would fit on the Stanley? 

-- 
I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.
273912 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2021‑06‑10 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
I don't have a spare, but a bit of brass or steel pipe, a thumb screw, and
the appropriate tap and you're there.  You can squeeze it in a vice to get
it oval.  If you don't have a tap, you can solder a nut on.  Lots of
options until you find something better.
  Nothing wrong with pinch locking or wedge locking home made router planes
either.  You can grind a useful blade out of a large Allen key.  Drill a
hole in a block of wood and stick an old 1/2" chisel in at an appropriate
angle and you're good to go (that's what I use by the lake, a bit of cut
off 2 by 4 and a narrowish chisel).

-- Claudio
273917 David Sobel 2021‑06‑11 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
My 70-1/2 has a groove on both sides of the post.  I can face the blade outboard
mounted to the back of the post, and cut right up to a vertical surface. Maybe I
am just using it wrong?https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/264246/3229238?p=Creat
ed,,,20,2,0,0David SobelDon wrote:I'm not positive I'm right about this ( there
are so many ways to be wrong! ), but I think that the lateral cutting ability of
the large LV router makes it a rare bird. It can cut to within 1/8in or so of a
vertical surface, as you might do when repairing an old chest whose drawers have
worn ruts in the blades upon which they are resting.Sent from my Galaxy
273918 David Sobel 2021‑06‑11 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
One more time from the computer.  For some reason, the list bodges up the
formatting when I send emails from my phone.
273920 Kirk Eppler 2021‑06‑11 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
None of these show mounting it outboard, but I don't see why it would not
work.

https://archive.org/details/internationaltoolcataloglibrary?query=stanley+71&sin
=&sort=-date


Patrick says you can, so there you go
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm

I imagine the arched mouths might have a bit of trouble reversing the
clamp, but I've never tried.

Kirk, still in HMB 5 minutes later.

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 5:04 PM David Sobel via groups.io  wrote:

> My 70-1/2 has a groove on both sides of the post.  I can face the blade
> outboard mounted to the back of the post, and cut right up to a vertical
> surface. Maybe I am just using it wrong?


Corrected his link here
https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/264246/3242352?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0
273921 Kirk Eppler 2021‑06‑11 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 5:21 PM Kirk Eppler via groups.io  wrote:

>
> I imagine the arched mouths might have a bit of trouble reversing the
> clamp, but I've never tried.
>
>
Yes it will work.  May not be comfy to tighten, but there is space there.
Interestingly, this one is in my rehab pile, and this is how I found it.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-6cbpMRb


 On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at Dan Beck opined:
However, I don't really want to try and alter the blades either.


I knew I had a terrible time with mine, so I had a minute to go to the
garage and grab it.  Turns out my user seems to be a Type 2.  Got it
without a blade, and later found a vintage blade.  Later added some LV
blades that I have no idea where they are at the moment.  You can see that
the clamp will only drop so far, and I had to scary sharp the blade to get
it to work in the tool.  All 4 vertical faces were polished, and the only
way that clamp is coming off is if the screw is retracted all the way off.
So my theory is that the clearance on the original ones was a bit tighter,
and the blades may have been a bit smaller.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-KJH49gc

Looking at the bottom of mine, you can see it is in primo collector shape.
However, I felt no shame in polishing the inside of the Vee on the clamp.
Cuz while this may only be original once, the odds of anyone else finding a
vintage skinny blade to use in it are probably quite slim, and I feel
better owning a usable tool than a pristeen shelf queen.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-bJdH49r

Kirk in HMB, time to start making dinner.  OK, reheating pizza, and
retossing a salad.  But it's still dinner.
--
273923 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2021‑06‑11 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
For clarity, I should have said 'cutting parallel to a vertical 
surface'. That's what I meant by 'lateral'.

Don

On 2021-06-10 6:04 p.m., David Sobel via groups.io wrote:
> My 70-1/2 has a groove on both sides of the post.  I can face the blade
outboard mounted to the back of the post, and cut right up to a vertical
surface. Maybe I am just using it wrong?https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/26424
6/3229238?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0David SobelDon wrote:I'm not positive I'm right
about this ( there are so many ways to be wrong! ), but I think that the lateral
cutting ability of the large LV router makes it a rare bird. It can cut to
within 1/8in or so of a vertical surface, as you might do when repairing an old
chest whose drawers have worn ruts in the blades upon which they are
resting.Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> 
>
>

-- 
Social networks are free, but you are the product.  (Popular Information)

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is
not to stop questioning.”  - Albert Einstein
273924 Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> 2021‑06‑11 Re: Stanley 71 #photo-notice
I'm going to clean it up and see if with some finesse and a little gentle
persuasion if I can't get the Veritas blades to fit. Either way, I may take
Chuck's advice and sell it and use the money to buy the large Veritas router
plane.

Thanks for all the info and advice!

-Dan

-- 
I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.

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