OldTools Archive
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273727 | David Sobel | 2021‑05‑18 | Bow saw question |
GG’s, This past weekend, I made my first turning saw. Maple, with cherry accessories, and shop made stainless steel and brass hardware. https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/264246/3229238?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0 In general, I am happy with it, but I do have one issue. The handle turns too easily. Initially, I thought maybe the issue is that I used a 1/4” bolt for the pin, which is about .007” smaller than the 1/4” hole I drilled to house it. Tonight I got a piece of 5/16” stainless steel rod (don’t judge me, I live in Florida, the land of endless rust), chucked it in my metal lathe, and turned the pin to exactly 1/4” as close as I can measure. The handle is still loose enough that it is not feasible to use the saw if only holding the handle. I find the saw works fine if I hold the frame with my thumb, index and middle fingers, and wrap my ring finger and pinkie around the handle. So is the issue my exceptions, and I should grip the saw as noted above, or is there some other trick for making the handle harder to turn? I ended up drilling a hole in the frame for a set screw that pushes against the pin, and that works, but is clearly not a period appropriate fix. I have also considered putting a high friction washer between the handle and the frame. Also not a period appropriate fix. So what are your experiences? David Sobel |
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273728 | Adam R. Maxwell | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
> On May 17, 2021, at 19:00 , David Sobel via groups.io |
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273729 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
Most of the bowsaws i've seen have split wooden tenons integral to the handle, so they have wood-to-wood friction surfaces. I think i've seen one where the tenons were tapered. The one saw with metal pins with which I'm somewhat familiar is a Marples, It has a disc of resilient material sandwiched between brass washers on the pins between the handles and uprights. it should be easy enough to try something like that. Another thing you might try would be apply some rosin to the pins - the sort that bass & cello players use. Don |
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273730 | Bill Ghio | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
> On May 18, 2021, at 1:38 AM, Don Schwartz |
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273731 | Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
Yes - and they hold up to about 30 pounds of pull by the string Ed |
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273732 | Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
Bill says ’taper’ - right answer. And seeing as you mentioned a lathe, then producing a taper pin is easy, and a matching taper tool with a cutting edge cut into it will also be simple so you can enlarge the existing hole a tad and fit it to your new pin. Richard Wilson Yorkshireman > On 18 May 2021, at 11:48, Bill Ghio via groups.io |
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273733 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
Not counting my grandfather's buck saw, I've used frame saws, turning saws, for over 30 years. The smallest I have is a bit larger than David's beautiful creation. The largest sports an approximately 30 inch blade. The largest I've seen (in photos) are pit saws. Some have some sort of "handle," most do not. Now, I've seen fret saws with wooden frames, but I'm not personally familiar with using one of those -- its use may be different. But without exception I always grasp the frame itself in use. Most of mine have those split wooden pins holding the blade. But not all. The largest I currently have in my shop holds a 20 inch blade held in steel pins. Those pins terminate in eyes so that you can stick an awl in them to adjust the angle of the blade to the frame. The blade is to be canted to the right, not held vertically to the frame. I seem to remember St. Roy showing this use; you're siting down top edge of the blade, watching the blade work into the wood you're cutting -- often an important advantage. Old style coopers, in cutting the barrel heads into circular disks, set the blades at right angles to the frames. True of the framed pit saws, too. In any case, the blade is not dependent on a handle for stability of the blade, but on the frame. Move the frame and the blade follows. With such a light blade it is difficult to control the frame by using the "handle." However small, a frame saw is not a metal framed coping saw or fret saw. The handle? It's best, perhaps only use is adjusting the angle of the blade from end to end so that it is perfectly straight. The weight of the frame, in combination with the small, light blade, will not be stable, but will want to wobble and give you grief. Grasp the frame in use, and that problem disappears. Mike in Woodland |
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273735 | Kirk Eppler | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 7:00 PM David Sobel via groups.io |
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273736 | Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
> https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/264246/3229238?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0 > > In general, I am happy with it, but I do have one issue. The handle turns > too easily. > I have a vintage saw in beech with 1/4” brass pins and a 1/4” blade. The pins are not tapered and are not tight int heir holes - not sloppy oose, but loose. It does a pretty good job of following a curvy line if I crank it down a bit - no spinning around of the blade. Ed Minch |
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273737 | Stephen Rosenthal <srosenthal26@g...> | 2021‑05‑18 | Re: Bow saw question |
I have a large and small Woodjoy bow saw. They have leather washers between the handle and frame and there isn’t the slightest wiggle. It was a bit of a learning curve to use them. I concur with Mike and always grip the frame while cutting and tend to use the handles only for balance. Trying to cut by gripping the handles yielded embarrassingly horrible results. A smaller turning saw is on my to-build list. |
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273738 | David Sobel | 2021‑05‑19 | Re: Bow saw question |
> Ed wrote: > I have a vintage saw in beech with 1/4” brass pins and a 1/4” blade. The pins are not tapered and are not tight int heir holes - not sloppy oose, but loose. It does a pretty good job of following a curvy line if I crank it down a bit - no spinning around of the blade. > > Ed Minch > That pretty much describes my saw, once I learned where to hold it. So first, thanks for all of the responses. It appears my biggest issue was user error. It looks like a giant coping saw, so I tried to hold it like a coping saw. Once I took the advise to hold the frame, the rest fell into place pretty well. Someone asked where I got the blade. I bought a set of 3 from Tools For Working Wood. Basically, it is a 12” long coping saw blade. https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/GT-BOW12.XX There were some good comments on adding some friction to the handle turning. The taper idea is interesting. I may try that on the next saw. This saw is a gift for my daughter, so I don’t want to try something that may screw it up. I may try some leather or rubber washers on this one, but it doesn’t really appear to be necessary. Thanks much again, David Sobel |
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