OldTools Archive

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273387 Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> 2021‑04‑08 WTB - Froe
As I continue down this road of green woodworking, I'm at the point where I need
to get a decent froe. Now, perhaps I'm really bad at using the google machine
but I can't seem to find a decent froe at a decent price. Searching on the ol'
electronics-bay.com and etsy also doesn't seem to turn up much. I don't want
some rusted, mushroomed "antique" nor do I need (read: can afford) a handmade,
bespoke, artisan-made froe. I'd like something that will simply and reliably
split blanks out of green wood for several years to come. As much as I'd love to
drop $195 on a froe made by our highly-respected Swedish brethren, alas I cannot
justify the expense. Our valley-dwelling Canadian brethren seem to have a nice
one they are selling for $56 but I was wondering if there wasn't a nice, well-
made froe that someone is making and/or selling for less. Any and all
suggestions are appreciated.

-Dan
-- 
I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.
273388 scottg <scottg@s...> 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
not some rusted, mushroomed "antique"

  Yes Dan, you do.

  The new made froes suck!! Flat billets of 1/4" steel and poorly forged 
eyes just do not cut it.
You want an old one with a 1/2" thick back tapered all the way to the 
edge, and a full forged tapered handle socket.
  The big 20" long blade froes are pretty much overkill.
You can handle anything you are going to do with a 12"

    Rust makes no difference. You are going to wear that off the first 
time you honestly use it.
  If its mushroomed, grind off anything that might fracture off or keep 
it from going down through a billet. But otherwise who cares?

I have had a couple of new made froes. I gave them away,
and not to my best friends.
yours scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
273390 Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
This is good info, Scott. Thanks!

BTW - I realize I may have sounded jerky saying: "I don't want some rusted,
mushroomed "antique". What I really mean is this - I generally prefer to spend
time using tools to make things as opposed to spending time restoring the tools
themselves. I will admit that mainly comes from the fact that I am relatively
inexperienced, so if I rehab a tool, I'm never entirely confident I've done a
good enough job. If the tool doesn't seem to work "properly" I never know if
it's from lack of experience using the tool or if it's because I did not rehab
the tool correctly (or a combination of both).

But if my options are (a) buying an inexpensive tool that doesn't work well or
doesn't hold up well, (b) buying an expensive tool, or (c) buying a vintage/used
tool that works well, holds up well, and is relatively inexpensive but it
requires me to spend time rehabbing it, I will choose "c" every day of the week
and twice on the weekend.

That being said, I've seen some froes at flea markets or garage sales that look
really beat up and nasty (and usually missing their handles), that seem past the
point of restoration. Perhaps I need to reconsider?

-Dan

-- 
I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.
273393 Paul Drake <bdbafh@g...> 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
As I pulled the new issue of Mortise and Tenon magazine out of the mailbox
I saw the beaut of a Froe in action and thought that it sure would be nice
to have one when the desire to rescue a piece of what would be firewood for
some higher purpose.

I take it that there may now be a surge in demand from this bunch of
galoots?
273395 Ed Minch <edminch3@g...> 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
The strength of the froe is when you get a longer piece you can keep the split
going along the line you want it to.  Don’t forget that wood that is firewood-
length splits really well with a hatchet or a wedge.

Ed Minch
273396 Kirk Eppler 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 12:51 PM Dan Beck  wrote:

>
>
> That being said, I've seen some froes at flea markets or garage sales that
> look really beat up and nasty (and usually missing their handles), that
> seem past the point of restoration. Perhaps I need to reconsider?
>

Yeah, definitely.  While you are out looking for a froe, keep an eye out
for wooden youth sized baseball bats.  Rumored to make good froe handles,
and maybe turn one into a slick handle too.

I've got a newish froe, think Scott G assisted in the acquisition, but
forget who he got it from, and a vintage hand forged froe that I fished out
from under a vendor's table at a flea.  The hand forged shown below.  The
newish one is sitting a few feet away

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-QtQjpfq
-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, wishing I had time or energy to go play with
the froe, or adze, or almost any tool right now.
273397 Tim Pendleton <tpendleton@g...> 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
Dan,

Wifey got me a nice Lie-Neilsen froe a few years ago - no regrets. It was a
bit pricey but it gets the job done while I dream about locating the
ultimate flea market score or fabricating one. It is made in the USA as
well.

Tim

Up to my knuckles in potting soil this week.
273399 scottg <scottg@s...> 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
Wait a minute.
I'm being slandered all over the place?

Kirk buddy, no way was I instrumental in getting you a bad froe!
A good froe possibly. But not a bad one!! I
'd never do that to you.

Any old ash bat would carve into a handle. Froe handles are not a lot 
different from froe clubs. They lead a hard life and aren't going to 
last forever anyway.
  So any suitably hard stick and any piece of hard firewood will do for 
a club
  Here are my current ones. Apple handle and pin oak club. (I don't know 
what the real name of this stuff is, but the important part is that it 
doesn't want to split very easily)

  Split out the firewood. Make some crosscuts into the firewood and 
split out most of the handle. Take your handy broad hatchet and give it 
adequate shape. You're done
  Works for me.
  http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/froe.jpg
     yours scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
273401 Kirk Eppler 2021‑04‑08 Re: WTB - Froe
On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 4:23 PM scottg  wrote:

> Wait a minute.
> I'm being slandered all over the place?
>
> Kirk buddy, no way was I instrumental in getting you a bad froe!
> A good froe possibly. But not a bad one!! I'd never do that to you.
>
>
Time out, check my work.  I said it was a newish one, not a bad one.

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 2:53 PM Kirk Eppler  wrote:

> I've got a newish froe, think Scott G assisted in the acquisition, but
> forget who he got it from, a.....
>

I just didn't have a picture of it handy, and didn't want to run out to the
garage to take one. Putting shoes on, you know how hard that is nowadays.

No, the implication was that if Scott G helped score it, it had to be
quality, based on the high bar you mentioned in your first post.  ;)
-- 
Kirk Eppler  Finally done with my last virtual meeting of the day.  Might
even put shoes on for a minute, and go get a picture of that other froe,
see if it still has a name on it.  Then get back to other work.  Or maybe
check the archives from that day in 2010, see if Scott said who made it.
Cuz that would be better than other work.
273404 Kirk Eppler 2021‑04‑09 Re: WTB - Froe
OK, here are newish and older, side by side, so you can see what Scott was
talking about as far as build quality.  And neither is sharp enough to
cut.  You'd have to try hard to break skin, except maybe with the bit of
mushrooming on the old one.

Side view
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Axes-and-Hatchets/i-LkC6zCf

Top View
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Axes-and-Hatchets/i-6GZV3RL

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Kirk Eppler via groups.io  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 4:23 PM scottg  wrote:
>
> > Wait a minute.
> > I'm being slandered all over the place?
> >
> > Kirk buddy, no way was I instrumental in getting you a bad froe!
> > A good froe possibly. But not a bad one!! I'd never do that to you.
>

And his original post on the subject

https://swingleydev.com/ot/get/203543/thread/#203543

And it was gone 7 messages later.  (Dang list traffic was high in those
days, 1000 messages or more a month it seems)


-- 
Kirk Eppler, protecting Scott's dignity.  And his reputation.  He kept me
from buying a new froe over 10 years ago.
273406 Tony Seo 2021‑04‑09 Re: WTB - Froe
On 4/8/2021 3:10 PM, Dan Beck wrote:
> As I continue down this road of green woodworking, I'm at the point where I
need to get a decent froe. Now, perhaps I'm really bad at using the google
machine but I can't seem to find a decent froe at a decent price. Searching on
the ol' electronics-bay.com and etsy also doesn't seem to turn up much.

I did a quick look through the archives here and I've only had about 8
good older ones over the past 16 years (which is how long I have been
saving pictures for some strange reason).   Most of what I see is
usually beat to death or the eye is cracked and a lot of the flea market
guys think that they are made of solid gold and price them as such.

I did mention about making them to a local blacksmith who has been
coming to the shop here lately.  I'll have to give him a nudge over the
weekend.

Tony (whiskey night..nuff said!)

--
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic
Old River Hard Goods
http://oldetoolshop.com/
273408 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2021‑04‑09 Re: WTB - Froe
On 2021-04-08 6:29 p.m., Tony Seo via groups.io wrote:
>
> I did a quick look through the archives here and I've only had about 8
> good older ones over the past 16 years 

That's 8 more than I've seen in OTH.

Don, quasi-locked down
273412 Nathan Goodwin <hiscarpentry@g...> 2021‑04‑09 Re: WTB - Froe
Lie-Nielsen sells a really decent one that Drew Langsner help him with. I know a
handful of “pro” green woodworkers that use them, including Peter Follansbee,
Tim Manney, Peter Galbert, and Curtis Buchanan to name the ones I know.

Nathan Goodwin 
H.I.S. Carpentry 
Honesty. Integrity. Service.
(617)347-6744
Blog: https://hiscarpentryblog.wordpress.com/
273413 Nathan Goodwin <hiscarpentry@g...> 2021‑04‑09 Re: WTB - Froe
It’s only $95. (Which might be a bit steep but certainly less than a Smithy made
one)

Nathan Goodwin 
H.I.S. Carpentry 
Honesty. Integrity. Service.
(617)347-6744
Blog: https://hiscarpentryblog.wordpress.com/
273414 Nathan Goodwin <hiscarpentry@g...> 2021‑04‑09 Re: WTB - Froe
Dagnabbit I keep forgetting to put the link in. 

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/lie-nielsen-froes-langsner-froe-

Nathan Goodwin 
H.I.S. Carpentry 
Honesty. Integrity. Service.
(617)347-6744
Blog: https://hiscarpentryblog.wordpress.com/
273430 Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> 2021‑04‑11 Re: WTB - Froe
One of the very fine forum members offered to sell me a nice-looking vintage
froe for a reasonable price, but the blade was a little too short for my needs.
So it looks like I will have to buy something new.

I'm debating between offerings from Lee Valley, the Langsner froe from Lie-
Nielson, and the Ray Iles froe from Tools For Woodworking. The Langsner and Iles
froes are almost double the cost of the LV froe. Has anyone had any experience
using the LV froe vs. either the Langsner and/or Iles? Is there that much of a
difference? Am I totally overthinking this?

-Dan

-- 
I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.
273431 Tim Pendleton <tpendleton@g...> 2021‑04‑11 Re: WTB - Froe
Dan ponders ...


>  Is there that much of a difference? Am I totally overthinking this?
>
> -Dan
>

Galoot wisdom suggests that you really need all three.  :D

Tim
273432 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2021‑04‑11 Re: WTB - Froe
Dan’s debate….

>  a nice-looking vintage froe for a reasonable price, but the blade was a
little too short for my needs.

> I'm debating between offerings from Lee Valley, the Langsner froe from Lie-
Nielson, and the Ray Iles froe from Tools For Woodworking. The Langsner and Iles
froes are almost double the cost of the LV froe. Has anyone had any experience
using the LV froe vs. either the Langsner and/or Iles? Is there that much of a
difference? Am I totally overthinking this?
> 
> -Dan
> 
> -- 
> I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food.


Of course I have a froe….   I believe it came from Charles Stirling at Bristol
Design.   My beetle has departed though, and I can’t recall it saying goodbye.

I’m rambling round to the big question - you say ‘the blade was too short’  and
I say ‘What, exactly, are you going to be doing with it?  If you are hurdle
making then a short blade is good.  If you are splitting out blanks for chair
legs then what sizes of timber are you starting with?
A similar question can be asked about the handle - they are normally removable,
fitted with a taper eye socket so you can separate blade and handle at the end
of the day, and pop them into your tool bag for the long walk out of the
woodland…..  So a single blade can host a couple of handles - long one where you
need plenty of leverage, short one where you have docile timber and are, say
splitting off thinner sections.

As for difference between blades - again - are you going to beat it within a
shingle of its life, or is it more of a weekend tool that you won’t wear out.
our fascinating discussion about hardness and so forth also has a bearing, in
that you may not need to find and purchase the tool with precisely engineered
alloy and hardness at huge expense.  A cheaper tool may be a good investment for
you to learn the skills and identify your own preferences, then, when the time
comes, you buy the gold plated damascus Japanese A2 hardened blade version and
sell on your learner tool.

But then, that’s just my take on the problem.


OH - I have to ask - dark haired breakfast food?



Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot. 









-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

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