I have been looking at images of Stair Saws on that auction site and 
from Google.   Many are old and there are a few that are currently in 
production.  Back to the question...

When I look at the blades, most if the old ones have the blade installed 
so that the tool is obviously been used in the PULL configuration.  
These seem to old enough that it reflects the say the workman used the 
tool...

SO I ask the multitude, those with experience and those who own these 
tools..... Which way do the teeth face?

SO that you PUSH the saw to cut

OR

SO that you PULL the saw to cut

?????

-- 

*Frank Filippone*

*BMWRed735i@G...*

Based on the shape of mine (handle), I assume push

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-StsspTJ

Looking at this one that MS scored at an estate sale we both attended, it
almost looks like the teeth at opposite ends are filed in different
directions

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/BAGaThons-and-Gatherings/170422
-Estate-Sale-Menlo/i-fZj7Z8Q">https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/BAGaThons-
and-Gatherings/170422-Estate-Sale-Menlo/i-fZj7Z8Q

KE

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:51 AM Frank Filippone 
wrote:

>
> When I look at the blades, most if the old ones have the blade installed
> so that the tool is obviously been used in the PULL configuration.
> These seem to old enough that it reflects the say the workman used the
> tool...
>
> SO I ask the multitude, those with experience and those who own these
> tools..... Which way do the teeth face?
>
> SO that you PUSH the saw to cut
>
> OR
>
> SO that you PULL the saw to cut
>
>
>

-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, trying to stay at low energy levels due
to the smoke

Frank inquired about stair saws:

>SO I ask the multitude, those with experience and those who own these 
>tools..... Which way do the teeth face?


I made my own a number of years ago based on some older patterns, and I had the
same question. The handle for the pattern I used seemed oriented for push, but
the illustration implied pull.


So in ignorance, I made it so the blade could be installed either way, and tried
both.


I found that, in my situation, both ways.


"What?" you ask? "There must be a right way and wrong way!" you say.


Working from old drawings, poor photos, and no experience with the tool prior to
making mine, I thought the same. Then I found that it depends. With the grain or
across it. Up to a hard stop (blind end) or all of the way out. Fixed workpiece
or one I could position. All matter.


For cutting out floor boards (SYP, I think, roughly 100 years in place), pull
was the best choice, as I could control the downforce with my off hand. Barely
left a mark in the sub floor with proper plate depth setting, and was able to
make clean starts at a board edge without marking the adjacent board.


For stair dado's, pushing from the edge to a hard stop clamped to the stringer
was easier, clean end and and no tearout, with good definition for clearing with
a chisel. Stringer on stands just above waist height for this.



I have no clue it one is more correct than the other, but I will continue to
turn the sawplate whichever way makes the job easier.



*** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address

On 2020-10-01 3:14 p.m., Erik Levin via OldTools wrote:
> I have no clue it one is more correct than the other, but I will continue to
turn the sawplate whichever way makes the job easier.

In other words, whatever works for you on the job you're doing. Pretty 
much like a spokeshave ( push or pull ) or a draw knife ( bevel up or 
down ).

Whatever helps you achieve the best result. The tool is not your master. 
You are the master of the tool.

FWIW

Don

-- 
On 9/11, 2,977 people died. By 10/2020, 220,000

anarchist

  - One who promotes chaos and lawlessness; a nihilist.
  - One who resents outside control or influence on his or her life, in
particular a government, and therefore desires the absence of political control.

moral nihilism - Amorality, the belief that morality does not exist, that no
action, thought or behavior is morally right or morally wrong.

Frank Filippone wrote:"I have been looking at images of Stair Saws on that
auction site and
from Google....most if the old ones have the blade installed 
so that the tool is obviously been used in the PULL configuration.
These seem to old enough that it reflects the say the workman used the 
tool...SO I ask the multitude, those with experience and those who own these 
tools..... Which way do the teeth face?"

Hi, Frank,
I have various reprint saw catalogs. The Disston 1914 cut of a stair saw is tiny
and hard to interpret because the teeth have very little rake, but under
magnification I have no doubt that they are oriented for a push cut. The Disston
1918 and Atkins 1919 are even smaller, but also seem to be arranged for a push
cut.
To Kirk's comment that the handle of his seems designed for a push stroke, I
would add the observation that the blade of mine is very thick, even thicker
than the blade of a compass or keyhole saw if my memory is correct.  There is no
reason for a saw designed to pull to have a thick blade, and every reason for it
not to.
I have no doubt that staircase saws were intended for use in pushing. I would
guess that any staircase saws encountered with their blades installed for a pull
cut, have had their blades reversed by a later user, probably someone so warped
by using Japanese saws that they don't realize that some saws are used to push.
Tom Conroy
(Air Quality Index in Berkeley is 106, and predicted to be over 55 throgh Sunday
at least. The first day of the fires the skies were gorgeous colors of red and
orange, but that was weeks ago and the gloom and difficulty in breathing is
getting pretty tiresome.   t.)

Push or Pull?      Examples of saws vary.... apparently with most being 
PUSH......

I would love to hear from more users......  Other than the obvious that 
which ever is easier, works ...

Most of the saws have a removable blade...... leading to the theory that 
you put in the blade for the way it works best.....

That takes time...... and if I were trying to make a living at making 
stairs ( or Dados) I would own one of each... maximizing the time DOING 
the job rather than adjusting my tools.....

SO I believe there still is an answer ..... Push or Pull?


Who has actual experience with this.....?  How did you actually cut ( 
saw) the dados on the stringers?

Is there something written up in carpenters how to (training) books?


Frank

Thanks much for the pictures, Kirk.  The saw with teeth cut both ways made
my day.

I made a stair saw once, and it's push.  I never considered that there
might be an alternative.

PK

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:02 AM Kirk Eppler via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 2:49 PM Frank Filippone wrote:

>
> Is there something written up in carpenters how to (training) books?
>

Here is a scan from my 1955 Popular Mechanics Do-It-Yourself Encyclopedia
from the section on stairbuilding that has a drawing of a
"stairbuilder's dado saw." Teeth are too small to see and description of
the saw's use is not detailed enough to answer the question.

https://imgur.com/VCtXGOF

Brian W

Mine matches the image in the Disston Catalogs, but the catalog shows
ambidextrous teeth.  Mine, as found, were set up push, but have a very
typical tooth shape.  Blade thickness, if I can still read a vernier, is
~0.040, really thick per Sir Thomas of Conroy's assertion.

Salomon nor Eric Sloane have anything on usage.  Blackburn doesn't even
list it.

Can't find my oldest Audel's

KE

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 12:36 PM Frank Filippone 
wrote:

> Push or Pull?      Examples of saws vary.... apparently with most being
> PUSH......
>
> I would love to hear from more users......  Other than the obvious that
> which ever is easier, works ...
>
> Most of the saws have a removable blade...... leading to the theory that
> you put in the blade for the way it works best.....
>
> That takes time...... and if I were trying to make a living at making
> stairs ( or Dados) I would own one of each... maximizing the time DOING
> the job rather than adjusting my tools.....
>
> SO I believe there still is an answer ..... Push or Pull?
>
>
> Who has actual experience with this.....?  How did you actually cut (
> saw) the dados on the stringers?
>
> Is there something written up in carpenters how to (training) books?
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...



-- 
Kirk Eppler
Principal Engineer
Pharm Dev Processing
eppler.kirk@g...
650 225-3911

Gentle Galoots,

I was just looking at the Lee Valley Fall Woodworking 2020 catalog today and
they show an "Adjustable-Depth Dozuki" that looks like it would serve as a stair
saw for small-scale work. The blade is 8-7/8 inches long, 25 tpi. Pull cut of
course.

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle USA

Another Data Point in the search.  This one is a push from either end,
which makes it a push pull in my opinion.  From a book noted in the caption.

Enjoy

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-sFtPKVV

My oldest Audel's (1923) does not show using one in any detail

Kirk, in HMB, sitting through another morning of meetings.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 1:29 PM Kirk Eppler  wrote:

> Mine matches the image in the Disston Catalogs, but the catalog shows
> ambidextrous teeth.  Mine, as found, were set up push, but have a very
> typical tooth shape.  Blade thickness, if I can still read a vernier, is
> ~0.040, really thick per Sir Thomas of Conroy's assertion.
>
> Salomon nor Eric Sloane have anything on usage.  Blackburn doesn't even
> list it.
>
> Can't find my oldest Audel's
>
> KE
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 12:36 PM Frank Filippone 
> wrote:
>
>> Push or Pull?      Examples of saws vary.... apparently with most being
>> PUSH......
>>
>> I would love to hear from more users......  Other than the obvious that
>> which ever is easier, works ...
>>
>> Most of the saws have a removable blade...... leading to the theory that
>> you put in the blade for the way it works best.....
>>
>> That takes time...... and if I were trying to make a living at making
>> stairs ( or Dados) I would own one of each... maximizing the time DOING
>> the job rather than adjusting my tools.....
>>
>> SO I believe there still is an answer ..... Push or Pull?
>>
>>
>> Who has actual experience with this.....?  How did you actually cut (
>> saw) the dados on the stringers?
>>
>> Is there something written up in carpenters how to (training) books?
>>
>>
>>
>>
-- 
Kirk Eppler

I hadn't seen a stair saw set up for anything but push stroke either

But Kirk!!  Holy Moley!!
Spiral screwdriver bits galore, and 1/2 of them phillips!?!  Push drill 
bits. Double end driver bits.
A whole stash of screwholding starter drivers.
    And the smallest brace mounted twist drill bits I've ever seen.
I had no idea anyone ever made them that small

  I am dubbing you............ King of Bits!!

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-XQQ5DWR/A
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-StsspTJ/A
yours scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html

Kirk wrote "Another Data Point in the search.  This one is a push from either
end,
which makes it a push pull in my opinion.  From a book noted in the caption...
" https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-sFtPKVV "


Or a pull from either end. Dare I point out that with two hornless (i.e. push-
unfriendly) handles it must be designed to be pulled back-and-forth, from both
ends in turn? It is in fact a two-man stair saw. one for big stairs.
Tom Conroy
As I previously came out in favor of original-push-sharpening, does this mean
that I'm now playing both ends against the middle?[ducking and running]

On 2020-10-08 4:50 p.m., Thomas Conroy via OldTools wrote:
> As I previously came out in favor of original-push-sharpening, does this mean
that I'm now playing both ends against the middle?

No need for that! File alternate teeth to cut in opposite directions and 
you have it both ways.

Don

-- 
On 9/11, 2,977 people died. By 10/2020, 212,000 and counting...

anarchist

  - One who promotes chaos and lawlessness; a nihilist.
  - One who resents outside control or influence on his or her life, in
particular a government, and therefore desires the absence of political control.

moral nihilism - Amorality, the belief that morality does not exist, that no
action, thought or behavior is morally right or morally wrong.