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269884 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2020‑02‑06 Crazy Tool Prices
Sometimes a couple of crazy deep pocket buyers will make a crazy price 
on most anything.

    Some things stay at a ridiculous price point for years. People drive 
up the price because they thought it was rare, and even after dozens to 
hundreds are found,
  the silly price stays because people got used to thinking they were 
valuable.


But more fun are "holes" in the market.
     I am about to fall --into-- the earth,
  from the iron that has landed in my possession these past few years.
   Its chisels. Its a hole you can drive a D8 Cat into!

Since the current generation is deadlock dumbface frozen onto new retail 
tools.
(OMG not every minute they are 2000 born every second.....)

And since a bunch of modern manufacturers have figured out that a pound 
or two of steel makes a buttload of little 4" blade wood chisels, that 
they can sell for tippy top dollar.....

Nobody is looking for old chisels.
    You can have the best chisels ever made for almost nothing if you hunt

I am traditionally the poorest / cheapest guy on the list. Always true, 
still is.
Mostly the last year alone, I was able to get these for about 1/10the 
price of facetious catalog retail.
   (That dinky little thing in front is a direct copy of a Stanley 750, 
same size nearly all the new chisels mimic.)

http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/cranknecks.JP
G

Built for hard work
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/paringwand2.
JPG

Last years scores. Also dirt cheap
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/chisels2018
f.jpg

I am letting the cat out of the bag.  I almost have enough now
   yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
269886 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2020‑02‑06 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
> > http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/crankneck
s.JPG 
>
>
    Oh PS
  Look toward the back of the bench.
Those are paper napkins in a homemade dispenser box.

    In the cheapest vein....
Paper napkins are remarkably effective at lots of shop tasks
and they are just barely this side of free

I showed you guys my compass to the left of it, right?
   yours again Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
269887 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2020‑02‑06 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
For living in the middle of nowhere, you really come up with some stuff.  And
your chisel plane is lovely.  I found a broken 9-1/2 (standard, common as dirt
block plane Jeff) that had the front broken off, and cut it down to a chisel
plane.  I ground the blade and took off the burr and it seemed to work fine so I
didn’t spend any more time on it.  Been about 6-7 years IIRC, and I have used it
once - but it looks cool on the shelf, which is the point, right?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49496067021/in/dateposted-public/

My problem with having lots of tools is that when I need to solve a woodworking
problem, I never remember I have the solution until after I’ve solved it another
way

Ed Minch
269890 Bill Ghio 2020‑02‑06 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
> On Feb 6, 2020, at 4:39 AM, Ed Minch  wrote:
> 
> For living in the middle of nowhere, you really come up with some stuff.  And
your chisel plane is lovely.  I found a broken 9-1/2 (standard, common as dirt
block plane Jeff) that had the front broken off, and cut it down to a chisel
plane.  I ground the blade and took off the burr and it seemed to work fine so I
didn’t spend any more time on it.  Been about 6-7 years IIRC, and I have used it
once - but it looks cool on the shelf, which is the point, right?
> 
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49496067021/in/dateposted-public/<
/a>
> 

Yep, got one of those too. Use it two or three times a year, but when you need
it ’tis nice to have.


Bill
269892 Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> 2020‑02‑06 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
Ed

I've got the same problem as well, my tools exceed my memory.

I had some crazy grain wood, and ended up using a scraper on it. It
looked OK, but I kind of dug a hole with it getting rid of some tear
out. A month later, I'm looking on my shelf, and there is a Stanley
112 scraper plane!

Did I buy a 112? I must have at some point, but I don't remember doing so.

Thanks,
Chris
269894 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2020‑02‑06 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
Gentle Galoots:

> On Feb 6, 2020, at 9:27 AM, Christopher Dunn  wrote:
> 
> Ed,
> 
> I've got the same problem as well, my tools exceed my memory.


Hmmm...what’s a Galoot to do about this problem? Some suggestions:

1) Keep the shop tools in plain sight, racked up for visibility. (The photos Ed
has posted of his shop indicate that he already does this to a great extent.)
Shows them off, too.

2) The old-time joiners kept almost everything in a single large wooden chest
with tills.  At the very least, this insures that you might see the correct tool
while reaching for the “wrong” tool !

3) Sell or give away all the duplicates.  Do you have several tools for which
You’ve bought an “upgrade” in need of restoration? Time to get those
restorations done and the original tool sold.

Then again, my desire to thin my herd didn’t stop me from buying, just last
week, a drool-worthy box of woodie, transitional, and iron planes, a hammer, and
a pristine M-F ratchet auger handle which works either as a T-handle or a
joist/corner brace. Pictures to come on the next sunny day.

John Ruth
Thinking about the mixed feelings that result when you “discover” something as
choice as a #112 that you’d forgotten you own!

P.S. The most effective way to forget about a tool is to come home from a
lengthy Flea Market session with a bunch and “put them aside” because you are in
a hurry to do something else.  If your SWMBO asks you what you bought, you won’t
be able to recite half of it!
269905 Darrell & Kathy <larchmont@s...> 2020‑02‑07 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
On 2/6/2020 1:45 AM, scott grandstaff wrote:
>  > > Nobody is looking for old chisels. You can have the best chisels > ever 
made for almost nothing if you hunt > >
What Scott said.

I go to the local tool show, and buy decent chisels from
dealers, not even garage sale stuff, and I am paying like
$20 CAD for a tool that just needs a good sharpening.
Less if it needs a handle.

And the same thing from the Shiny Chisel Boutiques
will set you back $200.

And if you want a proper paring chisel you gotta buy an
old one.  The ones that are popular now seem awfully
heavy, thick, and coarse to me, compared to the lovely
vintage paring chisels I have.


-- 
Darrell LaRue
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
269909 Matt Cooper <MaNoCooper@l...> 2020‑02‑07 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
Ha, now I have something to do with those Block planes that come my way.



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S10.



-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Ghio via OldTools 
Date: 2/6/20 07:33 (GMT-05:00)
To: Ed Minch 
Cc: OldTools List 
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Crazy Tool Prices



> On Feb 6, 2020, at 4:39 AM, Ed Minch  wrote:
>
> For living in the middle of nowhere, you really come up with some stuff.  And
your chisel plane is lovely.  I found a broken 9-1/2 (standard, common as dirt
block plane Jeff) that had the front broken off, and cut it down to a chisel
plane.  I ground the blade and took off the burr and it seemed to work fine so I
didn’t spend any more time on it.  Been about 6-7 years IIRC, and I have used it
once - but it looks cool on the shelf, which is the point, right?
>
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/49496067021/in/dateposted-public/<
/a>
>

Yep, got one of those too. Use it two or three times a year, but when you need
it ’tis nice to have.


Bill

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269920 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2020‑02‑08 Re: Crazy Tool Prices
SNIP
Last years scores. Also dirt cheap
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/chisels2018
f.jpg
END SIP

Scott, hard to tell with the photo perspective, but are you using shaker pegs as
handles in those carving tools?

K
269921 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2020‑02‑09 Re: Chinachiz
On 2/8/2020 2:29 PM, Joseph Sullivan wrote:
> SNIP
> Last years scores. Also dirt cheap
> > http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/oldtools/chisels
2018f.jpg
> END SIP
>
> Scott, hard to tell with the photo perspective, but are you using shaker pegs
as handles in those carving tools?
Those are Chinese carving chisels in the upper right, Joe
         A totally different animal it took me some time to figure out.
   My buddy Matthew brought them back from a street market in China when 
he was teaching there.
Lots of weird blade shapes like heavily skewed incannel shallow gouges, 
or radical fishtail straight chisels. Lots of big cutting edges on a 
long slender lightweight tool.
   Some of you will remember I'm sure? This was a few years ago.
Well, he just brought back the unhandled tools.

  I tried several different handle configurations (so did Jim Thompson) 
but none we made was very satisfactory. Then I finally found some pix 
and got a clue to go on.

    The chisels are not made to be driven forward, like a standard 
western chisel.
The technique is more like rowing a boat. You park one hand, holding the 
chisel blade, on the surface and place your other hand on top of the 
mushroom at the end of the handle.
  Then you slip a corner of the oddly shaped blade into the wood and 
sweep your top hand around. Neatly slipping under the surface of the 
wood and "walking" the chip out.

Its pretty weird and I am not the best at it yet. But its like cheating.
Instead of brutally driving the chisel in along the grain, you are 
slipping in a corner and sweeping mostly crossgrain, and 
slicing/levering the chip out.
   Its nearly effortless to take a big fat chip when you get it right.

The chisels are lightweight with a wrapped but unwelded socket that is 
spring tempered. Putting the handle in spreads the socket open a skosh 
and then it bites down hard on the handle tenon, holding it very 
tightly. The constant sideways motion would loosen a welded socket 
chisel handle in no time. But the spring sockets hold very well.

    Since heavy pushing or pounding the chisel is off the menu, handles 
don't need to be really hard wood. I just split some old growth fir 
billets as I was making kindling for the fire, and went with those.

   I started by turning the whole handle at once. But the 2 1/2" 
diameter mushroom atop the long handle was really a lot of waste to hog 
off.  So I started turning them as straight handles with a tenon on the 
end and then turning the mushrooms wholesale off the same billet, gluing 
them together.
   Totally useless chisel handle configuration for western chisels but 
completely adequate for the Chinese style.

   In China they carve 75 foot long wooden bridges from giant timbers, 
and carve detailed scenes a foot deep along the whole thing. And 
countless other examples of giant carving like it was ordinary 
practice.  Nearly unfathomable wood carving.

This is how they do it.
   yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
269922 curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2020‑02‑09 Re: Chinachiz
Scott wrote:
> ... Lots of weird blade shapes like heavily skewed incannel shallow
gouges,
> or radical fishtail straight chisels. Lots of big cutting edges on a
> long slender lightweight tool.
> ... The technique is more like rowing a boat. You park one hand, holding
the
> chisel blade, on the surface and place your other hand on top of the
> mushroom at the end of the handle.

This sounds a lot like knife work, like a twca cam or what a mocotaugan
might be with more steel. I'm not catching those odd skews in your picture
- are you saving those for a show&tell that you forgot about telling?
269924 Chuck Taylor 2020‑02‑10 Re: Chinachiz
On Sunday, February 9, 2020, 8:51:33 AM PST, scott grandstaff 
wrote:

> Those are Chinese carving chisels in the upper right, Joe
>         A totally different animal it took me some time to figure out.
>  My buddy Matthew brought them back from a street market in China when 
>  he was teaching there.
...
 >  Some of you will remember I'm sure? This was a few years ago.
> Well, he just brought back the unhandled tools.
 
Of course some of us remember, Scott!

https://swingleydev.com/
ot/get/262166/thread/

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle USA
269925 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2020‑02‑10 Re: Chinachiz
SNIP

   In China they carve 75 foot long wooden bridges from giant timbers, and carve
detailed scenes a foot deep along the whole thing. And countless other examples
of giant carving like it was ordinary practice.  Nearly unfathomable wood
carving.

END SNIP

Thanks, Scott.  Absolutely fascinating.

J
269928 gtgrouch@r... 2020‑02‑10 Re: Chinachiz
Of course the truly important question is:

	"Where can I get my own set?"

	Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA

	-----------------------------------------From: "Chuck Taylor via
OldTools" 

To: "porch", "scott grandstaff"
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday February 9 2020 11:38:13PM
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Chinachiz

 On Sunday, February 9, 2020, 8:51:33 AM PST, scott grandstaff  wrote:


 > Those are Chinese carving chisels in the upper right, Joe
 > A totally different animal it took me some time to figure out.
 > My buddy Matthew brought them back from a street market in China
when 
 > he was teaching there.
 ...
 > Some of you will remember I'm sure? This was a few years ago.
 > Well, he just brought back the unhandled tools.

 Of course some of us remember, Scott!

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