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268816 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2019‑07‑03 | carvers axe/hatchet |
Good afternoon, friends! I recently got into spoon making and green-wood working, and I would like to get myself a decent carvers axe/hatchet. I know that if I keep my eyes peeled at garage sales and flea markets, I should be able to find an axe or hatchet on the cheap that I can rehab. But I'll be honest - I'm feeling impatient and I'd really rather just find one that I can use right away with little rehab needed. I'd love to get a Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet but there's no way I can drop that kind of coin right now. The Robin Wood carving axe is also on the top of my list, but the shipping costs from England also put that just slightly out of my reach, financially. So, I thought I would reach out to you all and see if anyone had a decent, user-grade carving axe/hatchet that they might be looking to sell for a reasonable price. If this is you, please let me know. Thank you and I hope all of you have a fantastic 4th of July! Best, Dan PS - is it an axe? A hatchet? I see listed both ways. PPS - sorry that I mainly only post when I'm looking to buy something. I'm still relatively new to woodworking, so I don't have a lot of knowledge to share. I'm mainly here to soak up the wisdom you all exude. |
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268817 | Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Dan, I was in the same position you are and this is how I made do... I found an old side hatchet, was once a shingle hatchet with one face flat to the cutting edge and the other face beveled...think chisel...I shaped the cutting edge into a slight arc and placed a very small bevel on the flat face so the bevels are quite asymmetric. I tweaked the bevel configuration till I was happy with how it cut and so for about $5 and a couple of hours I had a very serviceable carving hatchet. Would still like a Granfors, or the Norwegian carving axe, but for now it works for me Brent A Kinsey |
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268818 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Dan has the axe itch… I was infected with the Gransfors bug by a friend who seemed to have an endless supply from a relative living near the factory. Gorgeous things. I also live near the best green woodworkers shop in the UK, and went to fondle several of the breed. I didn’t buy. Here’s why “You want “How much” for that lump of steel?” - we all know that feeling when looking at a new tool. Still I was tempted, the silky feel of the oiled handle with It’s subtle curves, and the balance point just ‘there’ and the feel of it as you altered your grip for taking fine shavings, or for chunky chopping. The Yorkshireman kicked back and the rationalisation went along the lines of ‘It’s a good steel. It will hold an edge - but I can sharpen stuff, and take a break a bit more often.’ 'The balance and weight are all in the handle shape. I can shape handles, and get some practice in fitting them. Maybe I could make mine an even better fit for my personal use if I don’t feel I’m carving up something of tremendous value.’ 'Axe heads are maybe a 5.00 spend. I can re-shape one to be as fine as one of these, and I won’t care about ruining It’s looks’ So, as Brent said - just make your own. It will be as sharp, though maybe need more frequent sharpening. Or maybe take out a mortgage and see Maurice - take more money, his shop is packed with stuff you really, really need. Richard Wilson Yorkshire Galoot. |
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268819 | "Maddex, Peter" <peter.maddex@n...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
I am with the Yorkshireman on this, get a cheap head make a handle ((you will need a drawknife spokeshave or two) chance to acquire more tools) and have fun. I am experimenting with single bevels for more control, early days yet but it seems to work for me. Pete -----Original Message----- From: OldTools |
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268820 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
I am kind of shocked over current ax offerings. For several hundred years every man had an ax and there were more besides. ALL axes were handmade. They had it down so well. Mirror polish, carved/shaped heads. Millions available and never more than a few dollars. If you can't get a great old ax head for 5 bucks you simply aren't looking. I hardly even look at them at yard sales anymore unless there is something special about them. The first time I saw modern rough forged axes for hundreds of dollars my teeth fell out of my head!! Lets see, finely ground and mirror polished Plumb, Kelly or any one of dozens of great old axes for $3, or a forge scale rough ax for $200? Tough decision From there you get to alter / shape / restyle to suit yourself. Grind, polish, sharpen, carve a handle. And it doesn't even matter if you screw up because you might ruin 3 dollars and you have 4 or 5 more laying in the pile anyway. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/carving-ax.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/carving-ax3.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/fireaxe2012c.jpg http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/sideax.jpg yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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268821 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: [SPAM?] Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Scott shows us up... > On 4 Jul 2019, at 08:56, scott grandstaff |
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268822 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
> On 4 Jul 2019, at 08:56, scott grandstaff wrote: For several hundred years every man had an ax and there were more besides. ALL axes were handmade. They had it down so well. Mirror polish, carved/shaped heads. Millions available and never more than a few dollars. > Scott- I totally agree. Which is precisely why I don’t want to drop a ton of money on a new axe. Don’t get me wrong - these handmade modern axes look stunning and I’m sure they slice thru wood like a hot knife through butter. But, knowing that I could make one for very little money just makes the thought of dropping $100+ on a new axe seem... extravagant. That and I just bought a 1930s Chandler and Price letterpress machine, but that’s a different story... Someday I will try my hand at making an axe. But, this is one of those instances where I just want to jump in and start doing and not spend the time having to make a tool first. Plus, I am completely “green” (pun intended) to slöyd so I want to know that the axe I am using is actually decent so I can blame any of my mistakes on me and not the tool. Ya know what I mean? But these photos and stories about your axe and hatchet making are awesome, so please keep them coming. And if you have a handmade axe that works well and you’re willing to sell at a reasonable price, let me know! -Dan |
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268824 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: [SPAM?] Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/fireaxe2012c.jpg > Come on Scott - that fireaxe! You have to be kidding.. Hey Brother, thanks That fireax is hanging on the firehouse wall right now. There weren't a lot of keepsakes associated with the fire department when I served. Brave dedicated men and women willing to risk their lives at the drop of a hat. But nothing much to point to and be proud of and remember the best times. I couldn't buy an antique parade fireax. But that didn't mean we didn't get to have one. There is a very small sign underneath it To those who came before us And those who will come after us And we who answer the call today 33 33 is the county radio call number for Happy Camp Fire. Each fireman has their own as well. I was 3386 yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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268825 | <joe@j...> | 2019‑07‑04 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
If you can't get a great old ax head for 5 bucks you simply aren't looking. I hardly even look at them at yard sales anymore unless there is something special about them. The first time I saw modern rough forged axes for hundreds of dollars my teeth fell out of my head!! End snip Yes, axes are cheap unless you really want a particular one. For example, a 19th century New York blacksmith named Isaiah Blood is a 3rd or 4th great uncle of mine (I am descended from his preacher-brother). His father did well at smithing, but Isaiah did better -- got rich in fact with factory that produced a line of high-quality axes to open up the west, and also a line of scythes to help when the axe work was largely done and crops could be planted. He also made adzes and some other edged tools. Because of the family connection, I have picked up two I. Blood axe heads and one of the adzes -- with original handle. Have not looked for a few years, having backed off when I noticed that I. Blood axes were commanding more than similar items of the same age. Turns out that there is a certain nut contingent drawn to own "blood axes." I kid you not. Cheers Joe Scanned by McAfee and confirmed virus-free. Find out more here: https://bit.ly/2zCJMrO |
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268832 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2019‑07‑06 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Dan Beck asked, "I recently got into spoon making and green-wood working, and I would like to get myself a decent carvers axe/hatchet." "The ax is an implement with which one can as easily carve a spoon or build a house." Tolstoy Something to think about since you mention spoon making. Tolstoy wasn't kidding. Spoon making is big in Russia, or was anyway. The trick in picking a carving hatchet/ax (hatchet is what you're looking for in English, a small ax to be used with one hand) is lightness and sharpness. I have a Russian hatchet that fits the bill, just under two pounds. It looks very much like this carver's hatchet from Picard: https://www.amazon.com/Ruthe-Picard-03010062019-Hatchet-Hickory/dp/B01D W5QRYM/ref=asc_df_B01DW5QRYM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=229286241014&hvp os=1o6&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15750048664762567457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvc mdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032497&hvtargid=aud-643565131866:pla-384739526321&psc=1 ">https://www.amazon.com/Ruthe-Picard-03010062019-Hatchet-Hickory/dp/B01DW5QRYM/ ref=asc_df_B01DW5QRYM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=229286241014&hvpos=1o6& hvnetw=g&hvrand=15750048664762567457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hv locint=&hvlocphy=9032497&hvtargid=aud-643565131866:pla-384739526321&psc=1 And one from Brufer: https://www.amazon.com/BRUFER-203651-3-Hatchet-Genuine-Hickory/dp/B07PX G14C8/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_469_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Q07QK7657DG38BKHRM9B">h ttps://www.amazon.com/BRUFER-203651-3-Hatchet-Genuine-Hickory/dp/B07PXG14C8/ref= pd_lpo_sbs_469_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Q07QK7657DG38BKHRM9B I'd probably go for the Brufer because of the lighter weight. The second trick is sharpness. Two people complained about the sharpness of the Picard. Well, take it to a tool sharpening service and have it ground to 20 degrees. That's how the Russians do it. I tried it on both my Russian axes and it makes them a different animal from the usual ax/hatchet. Think of the shingles on Russian onion domes. They're carved to follow the curves of the dome, and they're carved individually with an ax. For carving, a side ax is too heavy for my tastes. I like side axes and have several -- even a left handed one. For carving purposes, they're also limiting. Sharpened to 20 degrees, you pretty much don't need one. Mike in Woodland |
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268850 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2019‑07‑07 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
this carver's hatchet from Picard: https://www.amazon.com/Ruthe-Picard-03010062019-Hatchet-Hickory/dp/B01D W5QRYM/ref=asc_df_B01DW5QRYM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=229286241014&hvp os=1o6&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15750048664762567457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvc mdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032497&hvtargid=aud-643565131866:pla-384739526321&psc=1 ">https://www.amazon.com/Ruthe-Picard-03010062019-Hatchet-Hickory/dp/B01DW5QRYM/ ref=asc_df_B01DW5QRYM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=229286241014&hvpos=1o6& hvnetw=g&hvrand=15750048664762567457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hv locint=&hvlocphy=9032497&hvtargid=aud-643565131866:pla-384739526321&psc=1 Hey Mike Ok that was almost cruel. In all the world I have no use whatever for this ax. I have carved and have many other axes that would fill the bill for this size work. But here we are, slowly but relentlessly gnawing on me anyway.............. At this price?? Are you kidding me? haahahaha yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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268855 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Hey Scott, Pretty much, my gauge for having a use is "Do I have one of these?" Oh, and am I willing and able to pay the price. I am thinking about the Picard -- come on, Star Trek. But I have a Hudson Bay pattern trade ax, and I have a little Russian hatchet (very interesting feel to this one because the handle is silver birch which, so light weight, changes the balance of the piece. Interesting when working with it. Had to have that one for the one time a year I demonstrate at Fort Ross. Mike in Woodland |
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268858 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
GG’s, The Picard “Ruthe” model hatchet is a sort of olden-style tool, which IMHO makes it “On-Topic.” I would ask all galoots to please read all the reviews on Amazon BEFORE buying the Picard Ruthe hatchet. Some buyers said it came with a 1,000 gram head rather than the 600 gram head that’s described. Others said the head is twisted and/or hung crookedly on the handle. I can’t tell from the photos, but one reviewer wrote that the cutting edge is not a straight line. That would require reforging! Many said the handle broke easily, although, to many Galoots, that would just add to the challenge. Some, but not all, of these handle-breakers admitted to being axe-throwers. Many reviewers were dismayed that the hatchet would need grinding and honing before use. I’m not sure that’s a legitimate beef; practically every new edge tool needs at least a touch up before it is truly sharp. On the plus side, no reviewer has yet expressed any dissatisfaction with the steel itself. At best, this is sounds more like “a kit to make a hatchet,” rather than a hatchet! John Ruth |
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268860 | Kirk Eppler | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 4:42 AM Michael Blair |
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268861 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Mike - I will have to investigate the 20 degree angle on the grind. I have not heard of that before (I generally see 30-35 degrees) so thanks - another rabbit hole to fall down. It looks like I will soon have a nice vintage Norlund in my possession soon! I am excited, as I have read only great things about vintage Norlund axes and hatchets. |
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268863 | curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
> So guys who use hatchets for carving: These both (and Scott's) seem to > flair but up and down from the poll (bell shaped?)., Is that a critical > attribute in a carving axe? I was wondering about repurposing a lathing or > shingling hatchet when this thread came up. Sharp is most important. The 'bell'/beard can be nice -- it lets you push a cut with your grip behind the lower part of the blade. I will guess that a shingling hatchet will prevent you from taking light shaving cuts. I mostly use a garage-sale Plumb, which works just fine. |
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268864 | Kirk Eppler | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 1:31 PM curt seeliger |
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268865 | curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
> > I will guess that a shingling hatchet will prevent you from taking light shaving cuts.... > Why do you say that? Nice haul, Kirk, nice haul. That head may not be a problem. What I've seen of shingler's hatchets, the axe side is skinny and then flairs out quickly for the handle hole and hammer side, and that sudden flair seems like it would 'catch' on the wood being worked on. I'm used to axe cheeks that widen gradually. Whether to bother putting a curve on that blade is beyond me. As always, more research is needed. Go for it. |
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268866 | Bill Ghio | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
You might want to start watching Some of Robin Wood’s videos. Here is a starter: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U4fZ1ZHRwnw Bill Sent from my iPad |
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268867 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Thinking of the one in the middle of this mess > https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-FdCrDZ4 I am not sure I am qualified to answer this, Partner But then I am not sure anyone is. It seems to be a bit different for all of us. Here are some random thoughts to go with everyone else's. Add them all up at the end and average them out. lol Swinging an ax is primarily about hitting what you want to hit and how you want to hit it. Not so different from frame nailing, baseball or golf, really. It takes practice with whatever tool you are using. You need to know where you are going to hit in advance, often without really looking. You will be watching the work and not your hand or tool in other words. I had a hard time when I started because I am naturally left handed. I couldn't hit the ground with my hat in 3 tries! This is just about the time I realized that my right eye is dominant, so using my right hand is a natural for me. I use it exclusively for hatchet (or pistol) work now. Single bevel, double bevel either will work when you get used to it. I never tried carving with a lath hatchet. These have very long thin blades. I would not be surprised if you could get used to it though. Ax carving is more about the carver than the tool. Using an ax does not preclude you from reading the grain of the wood. You read as you work same as any other woodworking, at your peril. An ax can split out a horrifying chunk in a heartbeat, if you aren't careful. The bottom 1/3 of the blade is where the most power is. You can dig in deeper and easier with the bottom of the edge. Its not just hitting the work where you want to hit it. Its also about what part of the ax's edge is going to make the contact. They respond very differently. The middle of the edge is slightly less power with a bit more control. The center of the ax is the easiest to aim properly. This is where you start. The top of the edge is where you make your delicate smoothing cuts. Its like tap dancing on a tightrope using the top of the edge. Not that easy but wicked fun when you get it down. yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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268868 | Bill Ghio | 2019‑07‑08 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Here is the how to I was looking for. It’s a four parter, but this link is to the grinding part: http://timmanneychairmaker.blogspot.com/2013/06/carving-axe-edge- geometry-and-grinding.html">http://timmanneychairmaker.blogspot.com/2013/06 /carving-axe-edge-geometry-and-grinding.html Bill Sent from my iPad |
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268892 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2019‑07‑15 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Here's some photos of the Norlund hatchet I recently purchased from a fellow galoot: https://share.icloud.com/photos/08Rkv3rqUcrbhrkIB8EzLksXw#Amsterdam,_NY The wider metal wedge hammered in nicely, but I could not for the life of me get the longer, narrower wedge to drive in. I guess it doesn't matter, because the wood wedge locked the hatchet head onto to the handle super tight (so I probably didn't need either metal wedge). But it got me wondering - where does one purchase different shaped/sized metal wedges? |
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268894 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2019‑07‑15 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Sorry about that! Here’s a better link to the photos of the Norlund hatchet. It should be viewable by anyone, no iCloud account needed. https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0cGWZuqDlcsOh Sent from my iPhone |
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268895 | "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> | 2019‑07‑15 | Re: carvers axe/hatchet |
Is that a hatchet or an axe? It’s a Hudson Bay pattern head. I’ve got one on a 3/4 length handle and used it for years when I’d go canoe tripping. Wonderful tool! John Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: OldTools |
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