OldTools Archive

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267001 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑11‑09 New guitar
Hey all  (or GGGG, whichever fits)

I just finished my next guitar.  I tried something new and made the entire body
and neck out of Alaskan Yellow Cedar (a cypress), a lightweight conifer.
Normally, steel string guitars (as opposed to classical guitars which have used
gut, now nylon strings) have always been made with hardwoods, with some of the
favorites having higher density and harder surfaces, woods like rosewood, oak,
hard maple. I have seen a couple of Flamenco guitars that were made of this
wood.   So I was expecting this instrument to be more quiet and refined than
voluminous and brash.

The bracing inside under the top is a very important part of the sound.  The
Larson Brothers built guitars in the first few decades of the 20th c, and they
used laminated braces - 3 layers, spruce on the outside and rosewood on the
inside. They were thin, but strong, so they did not cover as much surface area
but still had desirable combinations of rigidity and flex.  I did this, but used
Osage Orange in the middle with Alaskan Yellow Cedar on the outside.  And since
I was using a longer scale (string length) I had to re-engineer the location of
the bracing because the bridge (big block with little round pins) had to move a
little on the top.  There is no real formula for this, just rule of thumb, so I
made my best guess and moved along.

It turned out very cool indeed.  The first day I put the strings on it was quiet
for the three bass strings, put loud and clear for the three higher strings.
This is called “balance” and my guitar was not balanced.  You should be able to
play on various strings without a listener being able to tell which string you
are on, and this did not have any of that.

By day 5, it had evened out considerably, the tone was very bright and clear,
and the volume was WAY more than I was anticipating.  The balance was much
improved, and it had developed a crispness that seems almost jangly.  My
fantastic guitarist daughter was here from day 2 to day 5, and as she played it
each day I could here a difference.  It is common knowledge that instruments
have a break-in period where something happens and their tone changes.  Some say
that with age, resins in the wood crystallize (whatever that means), some say
that the stresses from the strings trying to fold the instrument in half change
the internal structure of the fibers a bit.  People put a large speaker on the
top and play loud music to get the wood to vibrate, and they even make machines
that does this specifically.  But it usually takes a long time, like months or
years.  All I know is that over 5 days, this thing matured amazingly.  Here are
2 short iPhone (sorry) videos of my daughter playing it on day 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCEMYpr8Vpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NUD-bdNR0g

Here are some pictures of it.  Click left and right, text below:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/30816154577/in/album-72157688488198220/

And I took some pictures (over 200 of them - Holy Crap) of the construction, so
If you have half a mind, as I am sure that most of you do, take a look here. In
the upper left you can click “back to album” to get a thumbnail version, then
click on anything you find interesting:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/26765749748/in/album-72157688488198220/

The playability of this one is great - it is supposed to be easy to play, but
they don’t always come out that way.  Today is day 8 and the tone continues to
change a little, the balance is very good, and it about the loudest guitar I
have.  The tone is remarkable to my aging ears and I love it - very crisp and
clear.  It will be interesting to hear what happens over the next year or so.

thanks for looking

Ed Minch
The back yard is full of goldfinches - 20 of them
267002 Bill Ghio 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Very pretty guitar Ed.
267004 Chuck Taylor 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Very nice Ed! I'm used to thinking about yellow cedar as a wood for planking
boats! I don't think I had ever seen it finished so nicely!
Chuck Taylornorth of Seattle
267005 Scott Garrison <sbg2008@c...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
>
> Ed says:
>


> > Hey all  (or GGGG, whichever fits)
> >
> > I just finished my next guitar.
> >
>
Ed, since I can't play one of them (and likely wouldn't do it justice if I
could) second best thing is that I always love spending time watching the
build through your pics. I always learn a lot. Great looking guitar and it
sounds fantastic

Scott G in Duluth GA
267006 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
ed, do you rive your osage orange, or cut and plane?  have you ever thought
to try persimmon in the same location?

bill
felton, ca
267007 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Bill

I cut and surface sand, but I am very careful for this purpose to get little or
no runout  In boatbuilding, I was taught a rule that runout should be no less
than 24” in a 1” board, and I try for much better than that for tone wood.

I would love to try some Persimmon, but it is not readily available here. The
Osage Orange is called “poor man’s Brazilian Rosewood” because of it’s density
and surface hardness, so I tried that as I have a bunch of it.

The amazing thing here is that guitar changed so much over such a short time -
never heard of that before.  Even my terrible hearing could hear it.

Ed Minch
267008 Bill Ghio 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Riving Osage would be a lot like riving concrete.
267010 Charles Driggs 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Well, Ed … this tin earred and half blind guy watched your videos.  Mamie didn’t
show any signs of being in pain to be playing it.  I could hear it well enough
(without an amp, thank you), and it sounds good to me.  Well done.  Cute looking
little thing too.

Charlie
267013 John Leyden <leydenjl@g...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Wow, Ed. That’s a beauty. Well done!

John
267015 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
This is a darling little parlor Ed!!  Wow
You did a really beautiful job.
   Love in inlay too!!
I will be curious to see how the softwood neck holds over time.

Completely darling model you found to show it off too. ;)
  Love those sox Mames!
    yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
267016 Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Hi

Ed once again gets more done in a month than I get done in a year. How 
many guitars has he built this year?

On 2018-11-09 07:55, Ed Minch wrote:
> I tried something new and made the entire body and neck out of Alaskan Yellow
Cedar (a cypress), a lightweight conifer.

We have yellow cedar on Vancouver Island. It is a favourite on local 
Indian carvers. It is also occasionally used for boat building.

A problem with our yellow cedar is getting a finish to stick.

How did you apply the finish? What finish did you use?

Brent
-- 
Brent Beach
Victoria, BC, Canada
267018 Timothy J Pendleton <tpendleton@g...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Ed,

That is some seriously fine craftsmanship and guitar playing. Congrats!

Tim

p.s. - I have often suspected that purple socks were the key to agile guitar
playing.  :)



Ed Minch  wrote:
267021 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
More than that, purple sox make any guitar sound great


Ed Minch
267022 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑11‑09 Re: New guitar
Brent

The usual procedure with any kind of varnish or lacquer is to build up, say, 10
coats, level it, then polish by going through the grits up to about 2000 - 2500,
with a final rub of some fine polish like  a Meguire’s car polish.  I don't have
spray equipment.   It is not a mirror like you get with power equipment, but one
of my guitar heroes, Nick Lucas (he wrote "tiptoe through the tulips") said he
didn't want the finish to reflect into his audience’s eyes.  Not that I have an
audience other than my grandkids.

On this one I used Min-Wax wipe on poly.  After I leveled it I had enough
witness lines that I tried another couple of coats with more leveling.  I
couldn't get rid of them, so I finished with 1500 grit and wiped on a very thin,
even coat, and called it quits.  Not perfect, but OK by me

We also used a good grade of marine spar varnish on interior AYC on a boat we
launched in 1980, it just completed its 39th sailing season and the varnish
still looks great.

Ed Minch
267026 Matt Cooper <MaNoCooper@l...> 2018‑11‑10 Re: New guitar
Wow, very nice. I loved the sound. My wife is the musical one in the family, and
her ears perked up when I was playing the videos.0



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S8.


-------- Original message --------
From: Ed Minch 
Date: 11/9/18 11:02 (GMT-05:00)
To: Tools Old 
Subject: [OldTools] New guitar

Hey all  (or GGGG, whichever fits)

I just finished my next guitar.  I tried something new and made the entire body
and neck out of Alaskan Yellow Cedar (a cypress), a lightweight conifer.
Normally, steel string guitars (as opposed to classical guitars which have used
gut, now nylon strings) have always been made with hardwoods, with some of the
favorites having higher density and harder surfaces, woods like rosewood, oak,
hard maple. I have seen a couple of Flamenco guitars that were made of this
wood.   So I was expecting this instrument to be more quiet and refined than
voluminous and brash.

The bracing inside under the top is a very important part of the sound.  The
Larson Brothers built guitars in the first few decades of the 20th c, and they
used laminated braces - 3 layers, spruce on the outside and rosewood on the
inside. They were thin, but strong, so they did not cover as much surface area
but still had desirable combinations of rigidity and flex.  I did this, but used
Osage Orange in the middle with Alaskan Yellow Cedar on the outside.  And since
I was using a longer scale (string length) I had to re-engineer the location of
the bracing because the bridge (big block with little round pins) had to move a
little on the top.  There is no real formula for this, just rule of thumb, so I
made my best guess and moved along.

It turned out very cool indeed.  The first day I put the strings on it was quiet
for the three bass strings, put loud and clear for the three higher strings.
This is called “balance” and my guitar was not balanced.  You should be able to
play on various strings without a listener being able to tell which string you
are on, and this did not have any of that.

By day 5, it had evened out considerably, the tone was very bright and clear,
and the volume was WAY more than I was anticipating.  The balance was much
improved, and it had developed a crispness that seems almost jangly.  My
fantastic guitarist daughter was here from day 2 to day 5, and as she played it
each day I could here a difference.  It is common knowledge that instruments
have a break-in period where something happens and their tone changes.  Some say
that with age, resins in the wood crystallize (whatever that means), some say
that the stresses from the strings trying to fold the instrument in half change
the internal structure of the fibers a bit.  People put a large speaker on the
top and play loud music to get the wood to vibrate, and they even make machines
that does this specifically.  But it usually takes a long time, like months or
years.  All I know is that over 5 days, this thing matured amazingly.  Here are
2 short iPhone (sorry) videos of my daughter playing it on day 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCEMYpr8Vpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NUD-bdNR0g

Here are some pictures of it.  Click left and right, text below:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/30816154577/in/album-72157688488198220/

And I took some pictures (over 200 of them - Holy Crap) of the construction, so
If you have half a mind, as I am sure that most of you do, take a look here. In
the upper left you can click “back to album” to get a thumbnail version, then
click on anything you find interesting:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/26765749748/in/album-72157688488198220/

The playability of this one is great - it is supposed to be easy to play, but
they don’t always come out that way.  Today is day 8 and the tone continues to
change a little, the balance is very good, and it about the loudest guitar I
have.  The tone is remarkable to my aging ears and I love it - very crisp and
clear.  It will be interesting to hear what happens over the next year or so.

thanks for looking

Ed Minch
The back yard is full of goldfinches - 20 of them



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