OldTools Archive

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263614 Dave Broman <broman.dave@g...> 2017‑10‑19 Old hardware catalog
The museum I work for recently received the donation of a catalog from the
Clemens Vonnegut hardware store in Indianapolis. Clemens was the GG of the
famous author. I think it's from about 1880, but the pages aren't dated and
I have yet to dig further. I snapped some photos of a few pages that I
thought would be of interest to this crew. Its a good-sized hardback with a
lot.of content. The pics are at
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2aiiedqy7gpvtlj/AADOOCk5VZTvNxKZdIo1Qo_aa?dl=0
(Hope that link works for you)

Dave Broman
One of those Kokomo galoots
263615 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
> On Oct 18, 2017, at 9:12 PM, Dave Broman  wrote:
> 
>  The pics are at
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2aiiedqy7gpvtlj/AADOOCk5VZTvNxKZdIo1Qo_aa?
dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2aiiedqy7gpvtlj/AADOOCk5VZTvNxKZdIo1Qo_aa?dl=0<
/a> <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2aiiedqy7gpvtlj/AADOOCk5VZTvNxKZdIo1Qo_
aa?dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2aiiedqy7gpvtlj/AADOOCk5VZTvNxKZdIo1Qo_aa?dl
=0>
> (Hope that link works for you)


Works good - looks like he took those pictures out of John Walter’s book

Ed Minch
263616 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 6:23 PM Dave Broman  wrote:

> The museum I work for recently received the donation of a catalog from the
> Clemens Vonnegut hardware store in Indianapolis. Clemens was the GG of the
> famous author. I think it's from about 1880, but the pages aren't dated and
> I have yet to dig further?


Dave

I have a similar catalog, and it's made to pull the book apart and insert
pages. Looking at the end of chapters, I have a few added pages with dates,
1935 in my case.

We should be able to date it by the models of the saws, prices etc,
comparing to existing catalogs. I also have an 1900 ish Strehlingers, and a
few others.

More later

Kirk in HMB, CA

>
> --
Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors. Kirk
263617 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
These catalog pages are great!
It’s amazing seeing how expensive some tools were -like the plow planes.
Some of the images seem to be identical to some of mine? Maybe there were
stock engravings for multiple publishers?  Or did the manufacturers supply
the engravings?
Don’t you wish you could order from these catalogs today, haha?
Cheers from Barcelona
Claudio
263618 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On 2017-10-19 1:38 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi wrote:
> Some of the images seem to be identical to some of mine? Maybe there were
> stock engravings for multiple publishers?  Or did the manufacturers supply
> the engravings?


Claudio:

When I visited Remscheid, the Werkzeugmuseum had these wood block 
engravings on display, along with salesman's samples. I suspect they 
were provided by the manufacturers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-7215762
6886873961/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-721
57626886873961/

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263619 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 12:38 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi 
wrote:

> These catalog pages are great!
> It’s amazing seeing how expensive some tools were -like the plow planes.
> Some of the images seem to be identical to some of mine? Maybe there were
> stock engravings for multiple publishers?  Or did the manufacturers supply
> the engravings?
>
>
As Don said, I would believe the mfgrs supplied the engravings.


-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, where a bit of precipitation is joining us today.
263620 "Stager, Scott P." <StagerS@m...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
If you didn’t back up from that photo, do so - some fantastic photos of displays
that I presume are from that museum.  Some real heavy metal and blacksmithing

—Scott

On Oct 19, 2017, at 8:35 AM, Don Schwartz mailto:dks@t...>> wrote:


Claudio:

When I visited Remscheid, the Werkzeugmuseum had these wood block engravings on
display, along with salesman's samples. I suspect they were provided by the
manufacturers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-7215762
6886873961/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-721
57626886873961/

Don

--
263622 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On 2017-10-19 11:00 AM, Stager, Scott P. wrote:
> If you didn’t back up from that photo, do so - some fantastic photos of
displays that I presume are from that museum.  Some real heavy metal and
blacksmithing
>
> —Scott

It's a wonderful museum of the tools manufactured past and present in 
the Wuppertal Valley, particularly in Remscheid itself, Germany's answer 
to Sheffield. This was the source of the many tools marked simply 
'Germany', as well as much of the Boker brand.

Here's a link to my photos of that visit. Thanks to MLW's patience, I 
was able to spend considerable time there, drooling all the while.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../albums

The museum is a day-trip from Cologne.

Don


-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263623 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Dave Broman  wrote:

> The museum I work for recently received the donation of a catalog from the
> Clemens Vonnegut hardware store in Indianapolis. Clemens was the GG of the
> famous author. I think it's from about 1880, but the pages aren't dated and
> I have yet to dig further.


BTW, the Vonnegut family is also part of VonDuPrin door hardware somewhere
along the line too.

Looking through blood and gore, we can move the date up a bit.  The catalog
says it includes the Dado Cutter, and the slitter bits, which Leach says
were added in 1919 and 1884 respectively.  So currently no older than
1919.  (If Leach's dates can be believed)

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num47

the #50 lists only older cutters, no help

The 78 has the pre-1910 vines, not the fish, so no help

The #13 was only made til 1909.....  Hmmm, selling old stock?

The #18 has the early knuckle cap, didn't update the block press?

Switching to Stearns saw vises, comparing to catalog #34 from 1934?
Estabilished 1864, catalog 34, Archive.Org claims 1934,

#0 $10/doz here  $12 /doz there

#3 $16/doz here $18/ doz there,

Same with Wentworth saw vises.

#1 $15 vs 19
#2 $21 vs 30
#3 $18 vs 24

so guessing Stearns 1934 is a bit newer

The #120 Acme saw is in there, and the Disstonian says it was discontinued
in 1920, again, selling old stock for how long?


-- 
Kirk Eppler, offering opinions with a side order of facts, but only half
baked, in HMB, CA
263626 Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On 19/10/2017 11:35 PM, Don Schwartz wrote:
> On 2017-10-19 1:38 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi wrote:
>> Some of the images seem to be identical to some of mine? Maybe there were
>> stock engravings for multiple publishers?  Or did the manufacturers 
>> supply
>> the engravings?
> 
> 
> Claudio:
> 
> When I visited Remscheid, the Werkzeugmuseum had these wood block 
> engravings on display, along with salesman's samples. I suspect they 
> were provided by the manufacturers.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-72157
626886873961/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-7
2157626886873961/

Those are not wood engravings, though they may be derived from wood 
engravings. My guess is that they are stereotypes, cast in metal from 
original wood engravings. If that is what they are, it could have been 
that the tool manufacturer commissioned wood engravings (which are 
laborious and costly to make) from which multiple stereotypes were made 
for printing catalogues and magazine advertisements.

If they are not stereos made from wood engravings, they could be line 
blocks made by photo-engraving from ink drawings.

Any letterpress printing experts here? Care to comment?

-- 

Peter Marquis-Kyle
www.marquis-kyle.com.au
263627 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑10‑19 Re: Old hardware catalog
On 2017-10-19 3:31 PM, Peter Marquis-Kyle wrote:
>> When I visited Remscheid, the Werkzeugmuseum had these wood block 
>> engravings on display, along with salesman's samples. I suspect they 
>> were provided by the manufacturers.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-7215
7626886873961/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-
72157626886873961/
>
>
> Those are not wood engravings, though they may be derived from wood 
> engravings. My guess is that they are stereotypes, cast in metal from 
> original wood engravings. If that is what they are, it could have been 
> that the tool manufacturer commissioned wood engravings (which are 
> laborious and costly to make) from which multiple stereotypes were 
> made for printing catalogues and magazine advertisements.
>
> If they are not stereos made from wood engravings, they could be line 
> blocks made by photo-engraving from ink drawings.


Oops! They're not wooden, they're attached to wood.

Zooming in on the original photo I can see evidence of their attachment 
to a wooden block. As I know nothing about printing, and Peter knows 
much more than that, I'll send him a copy of the photo so he can maybe 
tell us more.


Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263632 dstar@a... 2017‑10‑20 Re: Old hardware catalog
Dave, thanks for sharing the photos of the catalog.  I love looking through old
catalogs like that.  Reminds me of getting that sears catalog as a kid around
christmas time.  I could spend hours looking through it.

I picked up a similar catalog a few years ago from Seattle Hardware Company.  I
think mine dates to around 1907-1908.  That is based on items listed (there is
mention of the new Luger semi automatic pistol which came out in 1900 or so) and
some local timeline history.  Here's some photos of the tools section.  The book
is over a thousand pages plus and has everything in it and I mean everything.
The fishing and hunting sections are cool, too.  The tools are here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/122649122@N.../albums/72157678951740503/w
ith/33029708453/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/122649122@N.../albums/7215767895
1740503/with/33029708453/
263634 Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist@g...> 2017‑10‑20 Re: Old hardware catalog
I have a collection of wooden blocks with the metal printing plate
found at a closing factory, some could have been hand engraved, some
machine copy/reduction engraved and the rest a photographic and etched
method

some images are large
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/Lucas/PB/

Dave Caroline
263651 Peter Marquis-Kyle <peter@m...> 2017‑10‑21 Re: Old hardware catalog
On 20/10/2017 7:59 AM, Don Schwartz wrote:
> On 2017-10-19 3:31 PM, Peter Marquis-Kyle wrote:
>>> When I visited Remscheid, the Werkzeugmuseum had these wood block 
>>> engravings on display, along with salesman's samples. I suspect they 
>>> were provided by the manufacturers.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album-721
57626886873961/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/33057984@N.../5855947254/in/album
-72157626886873961/
>>
>>
>> Those are not wood engravings, though they may be derived from wood 
>> engravings. My guess is that they are stereotypes, cast in metal from 
>> original wood engravings. If that is what they are, it could have been 
>> that the tool manufacturer commissioned wood engravings (which are 
>> laborious and costly to make) from which multiple stereotypes were 
>> made for printing catalogues and magazine advertisements.
>>
>> If they are not stereos made from wood engravings, they could be line 
>> blocks made by photo-engraving from ink drawings.
> 
> 
> Oops! They're not wooden, they're attached to wood.
> 
> Zooming in on the original photo I can see evidence of their attachment 
> to a wooden block. As I know nothing about printing, and Peter knows 
> much more than that, I'll send him a copy of the photo so he can maybe 
> tell us more.

Don Schwartz sent me a higher resolution file (thanks Don) and I took a 
closer look. I think those are half-tone blocks -- half-tone means that 
different shades of gray (grey, Jeff) are represented by a grid of 
larger and smaller dots. So, not wood engravings, and not stereotypes.

This book, published in 1904, explains the process of making these 
blocks: https://archive.org/details/halftoneprocessp00verf

When I was a lad at high school (in the 1960s) I was involved in 
producing a school magazine that was printed by letterpress -- a process 
that was on the way out then, to be replaced by offset lithography. I 
well remember my visits to the process engraving workshop that made the 
half-tone blocks, and the sights and sounds of that place -- the glare 
and sizzle of the arc lights in the camera room, the smell of hypo in 
the darkroom, the pungent smell of acid in the etching room.

-- 

Peter Marquis-Kyle
www.marquis-kyle.com.au

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