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263047 Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> 2017‑08‑22 Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Ed Minch and porch dwellers everywhere,

Guitar-making question.

I’ve got a buddy making an arch-top, and he’s borrowing a few gouges of mine. (I
woodwork vicariously through others) He’s made a few acoustics and scads of
solid bodied guitars. Even patented his own saddle-less bridge, too.
(rayrossbass.com <http://rayrossbass.com/">http://rayrossbass.com/>)

I thought for the underside of the top, what he might need is one of those
convex bottomed luthier planes with the palm-knob, but I’m no luthier. I’m going
to obtain one for him if further research indicates that’s the way to go.

So, here’s my question:

On ebay there are scads of them. Surely not made well. They span from $19 on up.

Are these little planes an area where even cheap ones do the job 95% like a
“nice” one? Or am I foolish to go the low-quality route in this instance?

Any thoughts?

Matthew Groves
Springfield, MO
263048 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2017‑08‑22 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
> I thought for the underside of the top, what he might need is one of those
convex bottomed luthier planes with the palm-knob, but I’m no luthier. I’m going
to obtain one for him if further research indicates that’s the way to go.
So Mathew
   He's going to carve an archtop instrument and wonders if a plane is 
going to be ready to go out of the box?
   Have to say it, the plane is not the hardest part of carving an archtop.

Of course the little ones can be made to work!   I made a pair of them 
work. Making a brass plane work is pretty straightforward, even if its a 
rough casting, which they aren't.
HSS for blades is standard in the Chinese plane industry.  Its hard 
steel, hard as a whores heart,  but its good enough.  You can make it work.

There are new more glamorous ones around for about $40.
  ---Really-- cute styling.
I am saving up my own money.  lol
    yours Scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
263049 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2017‑08‑22 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Forgot the pix, doh

I got a pair of wedged brass finger planes. The wedges would work. But I 
wasn't crazy about the angle of them, and besides, people who push them 
that way have tougher fingers than me. (people do use them the way they 
come, just not me)
I like a little more cushion for the pushin.

  So I just made some oversized wedges to use as a palm handle, about an 
hour after I opened the box. haahahah

http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/homeplanes/fingerplane2.jpg
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/homeplanes/fingerplane3.jpg
     yours again Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
263050 Bob Page 2017‑08‑22 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
As Scott Grandstaff said, the irons in many of these planes are made of high
speed steel (HSS). This steel is tough stuff. It requires some effort, but it
will take and hold an edge for a long time. I've been told that HSS is the only
plane iron that will hold up to pernambuco, a beautiful but gnarly wood commonly
used for violin bows. All of the "regulars", A2, O1, even D2 and PM-V11 will not
stay sharp when subjected to the microscopic spines of this South American wood
species.
Click on the link to see what pernambuco looks like under a microscope: https://ibb.co/dzoncQ">https://ibb.co/dzoncQ
263051 Greg Isola <gregorywisola@g...> 2017‑08‑22 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Hey:

I'm afraid I can't speak to the quality of the ebay luthier planes,
directly. But I've carved several archtops myself with the gear I have at
hand. This includes mostly my set of bench gouges, but I do lean heavily on
the convex-bottom planes at several points during the carving. I have a
tiny flat-sole version I made myself out of rosewood, but for (nearly) out
of the box performance at a medium price point, you can't go wrong with
these two from Lee Valley:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=57205&cat=1,230,41182
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=67716&cat=1,230,41182

The smaller one is a real beauty to use, but the larger one is actually
more useful. Think of it as a tiny scrub plane. I have mine set pretty
rank, and it really hogs out material, at least relatively speaking on the
scale we're discussing. It's a perfect follow-up after the rough gouge
work.

Greg Isola
Alameda, CA
263052 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑08‑22 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Matthew

The plane body is just a tool for holding a blade.  So it all depends on hiw
well the blade is held abnd how good the steel in the blade is.  However, these
tools get used so little - most of the wood is removed with gouges - that I bet
they don’t get sharpened but every few instruments.  And the squirrel tail seels
like a good idea, but most of the demos that I have seen use planes without.  My
daughter shares a guitar repair shop with a violin builder, and she has a couple
of them she uses most.  Perhaps if you got him 2 and sharpened the blades for
him, it wouldn’t matter what the quality was.

Here are some examples, although I have seen them at $800 each.  A lot of
planemakers like to make “art” out of these small guys and you will see animals
(even rebates) turned into these guys.

No affiliation, yada, yada, yada

http://www.jimbodetools.com/cart.php?m=search_results&search=violin+plane

by the way, love the maker name Otner-Botner

Ed Minch
263054 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2017‑08‑22 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
c'mon, greg.  you're such a tease.  pictures?

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Greg Isola 
wrote:

> [snipped per faq]



> I have a tiny flat-sole version I made myself out of rosewood
>

bill
felton, ca
263056 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2017‑08‑23 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Matthew Groves wrote:
> Ed Minch and porch dwellers everywhere,
>
> Guitar-making question.
>
> I’ve got a buddy making an arch-top, and he’s borrowing a few gouges of mine.
(I woodwork vicariously through others) He’s made a few acoustics and scads of
solid bodied guitars. Even patented his own saddle-less bridge, too.
(rayrossbass.com <http://rayrossbass.com/">http://rayrossbass.com/>)
>
> I thought for the underside of the top, what he might need is one of those
convex bottomed luthier planes with the palm-knob, but I’m no luthier. I’m going
to obtain one for him if further research indicates that’s the way to go.
>
> So, here’s my question:
>
> On ebay there are scads of them. Surely not made well. They span from $19 on
up.
>
> Are these little planes an area where even cheap ones do the job 95% like a
“nice” one? Or am I foolish to go the low-quality route in this instance?
>
> Any thoughts?

At that price, even considered as a kit, they should be fine. They're likely to
need work,
but it cannot be laborious, at that scale.

I'd be inclined to try a couple, they're so cheap.

  BugBear
263061 Cliff <rohrabacher@e...> 2017‑08‑23 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
You making a career of it or just  a one or two?   Therein lies the 
answer.   Unless you just have a penchant for slick looking tiny planes. 
Then that's your answer.

I made my own planes. Needed like two.  Didn't use 'em enough to justify 
specialty irons ( not that there were any available in the 1970s),  
Hardened the edges by hammering  the steel along the edge much like one 
might with a scythe.
263062 Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> 2017‑08‑23 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
As always, a wealth of great info from the list. Thank you!


My guitar-making friend isn’t at all wondering if these planes work out of the
box. He’s not wondering anything. He’s been carving volutes and a bunch of other
things.


I’M the one who’s wondering about violin planes and how good is good enough. The
redux of your feedback is that they’re all pretty much good enough.


Thanks again everyone!


Matthew Groves
Springfield, MO
263092 Greg Isola <gregorywisola@g...> 2017‑08‑25 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Dragon List  wrote:

c'mon, greg.  you're such a tease.  pictures?
>
> Thanks for the nudge, Bill. Here be a few pics:

http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/RosewoodPlane1.JPG
http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/RosewoodPlane2.JPG
http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/RosewoodPlane3.jpg

Many moons ago, Kirk Eppler gifted me with two tiny plane irons, like maybe
a five-sixteenths or three-eighths wide.  One is regular straight, and the
other is toothed. So I built this plane around the blades, Krenov style,
out of four little pieces of rosewood and a brass rod. It is not an
everyday tool, but when you need to do some really fine trimming, like
flush-planning some very thin strips of binding on a guitar body, it works
pretty darn well. I've made several tools that kinda suck, so the fact that
this one actually works makes it a real favorite!

Greg Isola
Alameda, CA
263093 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2017‑08‑25 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
calling all happy campers...calling all happy campers.  tiny planes on
aisle-ola (see what didn't quite work, there?).

super job, my friend.

bill
felton, ca

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Greg Isola 
wrote:
263094 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2017‑08‑25 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
> http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/Rosewood
Plane1.JPG">http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/Rosewoo
dPlane1.JPG
> http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/Rosewood
Plane2.JPG">http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/Rosewoo
dPlane2.JPG
> http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/Rosewood
Plane3.jpg">http://galootcentral.com/components/cpgalbums/userpics/10202/Rosewoo
dPlane3.jpg
>
That is darling!! Hooray for the little planes!!
     yours Scott


-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
263095 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑08‑25 Re: Are the cheap luthier planes worth it?
Beauty, eh?

Ed Minch

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