Hello all,

Does one sharpen a toothing blade like a regular planing blade, taking
care not to overheat the small projections?

I have been reading from older sources that a toothing plane was used
for readying a surface for gluing that is to be veneered. Newer sources
state that a toothing plane is also used for readying a surface for
scraping with a card scraper, sharpened piece of glass, or the like. I
found a John Bell toothing plane at a very reasonable price. The blade
is well used, but seems to be full length. It still works for the latter
purpose very well it it's present condition. I wish to improve upon its
performance. Has anyone attempted to sharpen a toothing blade before?

Steve Kumpf Philadelphia

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve, Yes I sharpen mine as with any other cutting tool early and
often. The dirty little secret of the toothing blade is the fact that it
too is a flat backed tool. In flattening the back one creates what
amounts to a cutting edge of many mini plane blades. Somewhere I once
read the trick was to hone the bevel edge and tap the cutting edge into
the workbench to remove the burr. This will not work. The tool will not
be sharp. You can see a picture of a properly tuned toothing blade on
the lee valley web site. They make several which are excellent and are
sold pre tuned. Except that I use a different bevel angle.

Tuning up the toothing plane is just like any other plane. Begin with
joining the sole squaring it to the sides if need be. Address any
concerns with the bed, mouth, frog, wedge etc. Flatten the back of the
toothing blade, grind the bevel and hone.

The toothing plane is helpful in thicknessing or truing figured wood or
against the grain and for prepping for glues that require that type of
surface. I would not think of it a prepping for the scraper. I just need
to go to the scraper to get the finish I need. My ideal is to plane
only. While your at the Lee Valley site notice that many scraper planes
are sold with toothed blades. For that really frustrating impossible to
plane wood.

Mme4u2meh@a... wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Does one sharpen a toothing blade like a regular planing blade, taking
>care not to overheat the small projections?
>
>I have been reading from older sources that a toothing plane was used
>for readying a surface for gluing that is to be veneered. Newer
>sources state that a toothing plane is also used for readying a
>surface for scraping with a card scraper, sharpened piece of glass, or
>the like. I found a John Bell toothing plane at a very reasonable
>price. The blade is well used, but seems to be full length. It still
>works for the latter purpose very well it it's present condition. I
>wish to improve upon its performance. Has anyone attempted to sharpen
>a toothing blade before?
>
>Steve Kumpf Philadelphia
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Pendergrass wrote:

Regarding a toothing plane iron:

>Yes I sharpen mine as with any other cutting tool early and often. 
>The dirty little secret of the toothing blade is the fact that it 
>too is a flat backed tool. In flattening the back one creates what 
>amounts to a cutting edge of many mini plane blades. ...

I hesitate to wade into this, as Ken has used toothing irons in his
work far more than I have. But, unless I'm misunderstaning his
meaning, it seems to run counter to what I've understood concerning
the sharpening of toothing planes/irons for veneer work.

Here is a quote from _Spons' Mechanics' Own Book_ (sixth edition,
1901) which reflects what I believe to be the traditional approach:

"... Besides the ordinary planes, the cabinet-maker uses a
'toothing' plane. This has a stock similar to the hard wood hand-
plane, but the iron, insead of having a cutting edge, presents a
series of sharp teeth to the wood. This serrated edge is formed
by long narrow grooves on the face of the iron next the wedge, and
when the iron is ground in the usual manner those ridges terminate
in sharp points. In setting-up the iron on the oil-stone, only the
ground back [i.e., the bevel] is applied to the stone. ... "

Do you feel this discrepancy arises from today's manufacturing
processes for toothing irons? Or does it arise from different
usages in instrument making? Or do you simply feel the
traditional advice is incorrect?

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Don,
Good point I should learn to specify that my advise is specific to my 
experience.  Indeed the way I do it and the way Lee Valley does it is 
the luthier way.  My intended purpose being surface prep /joining or 
thicknessing a highly figured wood. In my experiments the sharpening 
style in your quote of _spon's results in a very frustrating experience. 
If one needs to remove several millimeters of wood.   I should  not 
attempt to comment, I'd just be guessing anyway, about a comparison of 
the Lee Valley to antique manufacture.  I would consider the way 
described in the quote to not be economical. If one starts with a well 
made antique toothed blade, that is one which is nearly flat before 
tuning, one can have very narrow, pin like, mini plane blades as I think 
of it. I know there are brands of toothed irons being made other than 
Lee Valley,  Hock and ECE for example but I have not seen how they do it.
All the best,
Ken

Don McConnell wrote:

> Ken Pendergrass wrote:
>
> Regarding a toothing plane iron:
>
>> Yes I sharpen mine as with any other cutting tool early and often. 
>> The dirty little secret of the toothing blade is the fact that it too 
>> is a flat backed tool. In flattening the back one creates what 
>> amounts to a cutting edge of many mini plane blades. ...
>
>
>
> I hesitate to wade into this, as Ken has used toothing irons in his
> work far more than I have. But, unless I'm misunderstaning his
> meaning, it seems to run counter to what I've understood concerning
> the sharpening of toothing planes/irons for veneer work.
>
> Here is a quote from _Spons' Mechanics' Own Book_ (sixth edition,
> 1901) which reflects what I believe to be the traditional approach:
>
> "... Besides the ordinary planes, the cabinet-maker uses a
> 'toothing' plane. This has a stock similar to the hard wood hand-
> plane, but the iron, insead of having a cutting edge, presents a
> series of sharp teeth to the wood. This serrated edge is formed
> by long narrow grooves on the face of the iron next the wedge, and
> when the iron is ground in the usual manner those ridges terminate
> in sharp points. In setting-up the iron on the oil-stone, only the
> ground back [i.e., the bevel] is applied to the stone. ... "
>
> Do you feel this discrepancy arises from today's manufacturing
> processes for toothing irons? Or does it arise from different
> usages in instrument making? Or do you simply feel the
> traditional advice is incorrect?
>
> Don McConnell
> Eureka Springs, AR
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Pendergrass wrote:
>  If one starts with a well made antique toothed blade, that is one
>  which is nearly flat before tuning, one can have very narrow, pin
>  like, mini plane blades as I think of it.

I have 2 toothing planes in my posession, one being a rather old P. Law
dated at perhaps 1787-1833 here:

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_i-
d=80247&submit_thread=1#message

The other is a rather newer looking "Reaney + Woods".

The older blade is narrower at 1 3/4" against 2", but otherwise the
blades are extremely similar.

The blades were examined under a 10x loupe.

The teeth exist for around 1 1/2" at the end of the blade. At the
commencement of the teeth (an uneven line across the blade) there is a
simple 'V' groove, which start quite shallow and becomes a little deeper
towards the (sharp!) end of the the blade.

However, the apex of the peaks between the grooves also become sloped
towards the end of the blade, and the slopes are very slightly concave.

I'm afraid my digital camera is broken, so I have prepared a diagram
here: http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=4553

I am not sure wether the sloped convex face was made with a separate
tool, or if the tool used to make the groove forces the little peak and
slope into existence simultaneiously with making the groove. The
processz appears to be one of either punching or moulding (as opposed to
grinding). The older blade is substantially flared in the area of the
teeth, supporting the notion of metal being moved (not removed).

Given this cross section, if the blade is sharpened with a normal bevel,
the tooth shape is simply an exaggerated version of the cross section,
and does NOT (sorry Ken) have a flat leading face of any size
whatsoever.

    BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------

paul womack wrote:
> I'm afraid my digital camera is broken, so I have prepared
> a diagram here:
> http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id 

I wrote of my hasty observations and guesses
of blades in my possession.

As it transpires, my first diagram was not very accurate,
but what I wrote/drew were enough to strike
a chord with the remarkable old tool knowledge
of Don McConnell.

He remembered a process that was a remarkably good fit
with what I'd presented, and went off to his library.

He found...

"A Treatise on Files and Rasps", published by the
Nicholson File Co., Providence, RI, 1878.

In it the following illustration:
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=4563

Which is a remarkably good match with my second, more careful,
diagram of a toothing plane blade.
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=4553

Don quoted text from the pamphlet as follows:

"In cutting files by hand, the operator is seated before an
anvil of special construction, which is mounted on a block;
the [file] blank to be operated upon, is, by means of the
feet, held down to the anvil by two leather straps, the
tang end of the blank being toward the operator. Wth a
chisel in one hand, held at the proper angles, and a hammer
of peculiar shape, in the other, he strikes his first blow
upon the chisel, which is placed at the point of the file;
this throws up a barb or ridge, extending across its surface.

    "The chisel is then replaced on the blank, and is slid
up until it encounters the barb already made, when the second
blow is given, and so on, until the first course of teeth
is completed, so far as this face of the file is concerned."

Summary;
In conjunction with my observations of my blades,
it appears that we now have very good circumstantial
evidence to claim that we know how toothing blades
were made.

This may be genuine "reclaimed" lost knowledge

   BugBear
------------------------------------------------------------------------