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68026 Dan Indrigo <dindrigo@h...> 1999‑09‑13 I'd like a date
for the Norton combination stone I picked up in the supposedly rust free
zone called california. The cardboard box has a silvery gray and black
background pattern made up of triangles with every other triangle
containing an N. The label is two tone green and says

"              NORTON ABRASIVES
               COMBINATION HONE
  REG U.S. PAT. OFF.      MADE IN U.S.A.
BEHR-MANNING, TROY, N.Y.,U.S.A (DIVISION OF NORTON COMPANY)"

The stone itself has an logo impressed in it but it's a pike logo. It's
a recessed square with the word "PIKE" in the middle. The I in pike
actually is part of a much larger P that has a pike swimming through the
P. I don't know for a fact if norton bought pike but this stone fits
this box perfectly so I assume that is the case. So what can you tell me
about this stone.

Thanks

Dan


68030 Dave Weisbord <davewe@w...> 1999‑09‑13 Re: I'd like a date
Dave Weisbord wrote:

> Dan Indrigo wrote:
>
> > for the Norton combination stone I picked up in the supposedly rust free
> > zone called california. The cardboard box has a silvery gray and black
> > background pattern made up of triangles with every other triangle
> > containing an N. The label is two tone green and says
> >
> > "              NORTON ABRASIVES
> >                COMBINATION HONE
> >   REG U.S. PAT. OFF.      MADE IN U.S.A.
> > BEHR-MANNING, TROY, N.Y.,U.S.A (DIVISION OF NORTON COMPANY)"
> >
> > The stone itself has an logo impressed in it but it's a pike logo. It's
> > a recessed square with the word "PIKE" in the middle. The I in pike
> > actually is part of a much larger P that has a pike swimming through the
> > P. I don't know for a fact if norton bought pike but this stone fits
> > this box perfectly so I assume that is the case. So what can you tell me
> > about this stone.
>
> Here's what I know regarding Norton.
>
> First, the box. Behr-Manning has been a Division of Norton since the 30's.
> I have a '35 Norton Abrasives catalog which already has the Behr-Manning
> name. The triangle patterns on the box was used in the '30s and '40s. Don't
> know the exact year it ended, but I have a Norton catalog from '47 which
> still shows that pattern on the boxes.
>
> As to the stone - here's the best news. I don't believe its a combination
> stone. As far a I know Norton only used the Pike logo on its Arkansas and
> Washita stones after it purchased Pike. I do not believe it used the Pike
> logo on its India or Chrystolon stones. Therefore this stone is most likely
> an Arkansas stone - either a genuine Pike or a Norton after they took over
> Pike. Can you describe the label on the stone in more detail. If its a
> Norton and matches the box it should have Norton Abrasives and Behr-Manning
> on it, as well as the Pike logo. Typically, when the stone and box don't
> match, its the stone that' been replaced. In your case, the stone may be
> older than the box.
>
> So, in all likelihood the stone is not original to the box, but is
> potentially better.
>
> Dave


68034 Dan Indrigo <dindrigo@h...> 1999‑09‑13 Re: I'd like a date
> Dave Weisbord wrote:
>
> > Dan Indrigo wrote:
> >
> > > for the Norton combination stone I picked up in the supposedly rust free

> >
> > As to the stone - here's the best news. I don't believe its a combination
> > stone. As far a I know Norton only used the Pike logo on its Arkansas and
> > Washita stones after it purchased Pike. I do not believe it used the Pike
> > logo on its India or Chrystolon stones. Therefore this stone is most likely
> > an Arkansas stone - either a genuine Pike or a Norton after they took over
> > Pike. Can you describe the label on the stone in more detail. If its a
> > Norton and matches the box it should have Norton Abrasives and Behr-Manning
> > on it, as well as the Pike logo. Typically, when the stone and box don't
> > match, its the stone that' been replaced. In your case, the stone may be
> > older than the box.

It's definitely a combination stone with one side being a very dark
gray, this is the side with the logo, and the other side a very dark
red  with no markings at all. could it be that they were just using up
old pike stock in new boxes after they bought pike?

thanks

Dan


68058 Paul Fuss <fuss_em@h...> 1999‑09‑14 Re: I'd like a date
Dave Weisbord wrote:
>As far a I know Norton only used the Pike logo on its Arkansas
>and Washita stones after it purchased Pike. I do not believe it
>used the Pike logo on its India or Chrystolon stones.
 
>Typically, when the stone and box don't match, its the stone
>that' been replaced. In your case, the stone may be older than
>the box.

Dan Indrigo replies:
>It's definitely a combination stone with one side being a very dark
>gray, this is the side with the logo, and the other side a very dark
>red  with no markings at all. could it be that they were just using up
>old pike stock in new boxes after they bought pike?

I would say both are possibilities, even if the mismatch may be
more probable.  I have a 1933 Pike booklet that lists the manmade
India oilstones (including combination hones) among their offerings,
and the illustration shows that the stone as well as the box have
only the Pike logo on them.  And there are ample references elsewhere
in this booklet to their affiliation with Norton and Behr-Manning.
(Norton acquired 100% ownership of Pike in 1932, though they had
various relationships since 1897, and Norton merged with Behr-Manning
in 1931.)  So the stone itself was not necessarily made before
1932, though certainly the box was made after this date.  Also,
while Dan doesn't spell this out, I would bet that the box label
has the Pike logo above where it says "Reg US Patent Off".  And
if Norton had stopped using the Pike logo on their artificial
stones as Dave W. suggests, it probably happened sometime later on.
I have a newer India oilstone as well as a more recent pamphlet
that only says "Norton Abrasives" with no reference to the other
two companies.

FWIW,
Paul Fuss



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