OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

43049 Stephen York <Stephen.York@E...> 1998‑05‑11 What to do when squares go bad?
Actually they were probably bad to begin with. But I am getting ahead of my
story.

I was busy making a shooting board this weekend (cannot afford a 51/52),
based on one in the back of Watson's book on Handtools. Before mounting
the strips which hold the stock at 90 degrees, I started checking all
my squares for a true 90, by putting them on a straight board, scratching
a line, flipping the square and making another line.

I was appalled when I found that the squares I had been trusting to be
correct were *WAY* out of square. This includes a machinists square from
a well known mail order company that has *NEVER* been dropped or mistreated
in any way.

The funny thing was that the only square that I own that is right on the money
is an old Fulton square I pulled out of my Dad's garage. We used that thing
on several houses we built, and several more house rehabs. It has bounced
around in a toolbox for God knows how long.

So is there any way to fix squares that are not? I figure that the adjustable
combination sqaures are not fixable, but I was wondering about an old type
square with a blade attached to a handle with 3 pins.

And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle 
from a combination square is correct? My high school geometry is getting 
fuzzy nowadays. I gotta get those 45 degree shooting rails right too!

Thanks in advance!

	Steve 

BTW - For those who gave me advice on Epoxy, the SystemThree trial kit
for 10 dollars was great. The repair went well, and I saved that plane!
Tnanks for the good advice!


43052 Bill Brady <wmbrady@o...> 1998‑05‑11 Re: What to do when squares go bad?
Stephen York Wrote:

>So is there any way to fix squares that are not? I figure that the adjustable
>combination sqaures are not fixable, but I was wondering about an old type
>square with a blade attached to a handle with 3 pins.

One method is to file/lap the blade until it's square. Not an easy task 
if you are trying for the gnats .... other end.

>
>And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle 
>from a combination square is correct?

Mark off two 45s, you should end up with a 90. The real problem, however, 
is all the combination squares I've ever owned are square one time, off 
the next. I guess it all in the wrist when you set 'em.

Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy 
plane.


43057 John S. North <John.S.North@V...> 1998‑05‑11 Re: What to do when squares go bad?

Steve -

I had the same problem and was able to correct it by using a center punch on
the pins. Pound (lightly) the pin nearest to the outside corner of the square
to correct a square where the angle (inside) is more than 90 degrees. If the
inside angle is less than 90 pound on the pin nearest the inside corner. I had
to take more than a few whacks at it, checking using your method of flipping
the square after each set of poundings, but it corrected the square quite
nicely.

Of interest: last weekend I visited the Eagle Square plant (Stanley) in
Shaftsbury, VT and watched a demonstration of (among other things) truing up a
rafter square. Essentially the same idea, but because it's one piece of flat
metal and there are no pins a machinsts hammer is used to pound and either
expand the metal near the square's outside corner or near the inside corner,
depending on the direction of alteration required. The operator keeps the
hammer going all the time bouncing it on an anvil with a steady rythm when he's
not actually tapping the square, and being ultra careful to have the hammer
head hit true so no dings appear on the square. 

Cheers,

John
JN in NH


43074 Don Groves <groves@a...> 1998‑05‑11 Re: What to do when squares go bad?

At 09:02 5/11/98 -0700, Stephen York wrote:

...snip...
>The funny thing was that the only square that I own that is right on the
money
>is an old Fulton square I pulled out of my Dad's garage. We used that thing
>on several houses we built, and several more house rehabs. It has bounced
>around in a toolbox for God knows how long.
...snip...
>And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle 
>from a combination square is correct?

Well, you could use the same draw-flip-draw technique as before, but 
now the lines should meet at 90 degrees.  Be sure you use the Fulton
to check the 90 ;-)

Don Groves


43079 Wade McDonald <Wade.McDonald@l...> 1998‑05‑11 Re: What to do when squares go bad?
GGS,
Steve asks about how to square squares (you get quartics). 

Snip>
>I started checking all
my squares for a true 90, by putting them on a straight board,
scratching a line, flipping the square and making another line.
I was appalled when I found that the squares I had been trusting to be
correct were *WAY* out of square. This includes a machinists square from
a well known mail order company that has *NEVER* been dropped or
mistreated in any way.
So is there any way to fix squares that are not? 

Ouch- I would be tempted to send that square back to the mail order
company for a replacement- and explain why. In the long run, a machinsts
square is nice to have, even if only to tune other squares. Or a minty
Starrett combination square (thanks Patrick) which is reserved for
special cases- you don't want to drop them! 

The easiest way to true a square is- to hold the steel blade on the
floor and give the handle a whack with the heel of your hand. And if it
needs more encouragement, a decent tap with a mallet. If you go
overboard, you could induce some twist in the blade- so be careful that
you never hit real hard, that the blade is supported, and the direction
you whack is in line! I have tuned a fair number this way, no problems
yet. In every case, I have been able to move the blade to make the
square as good as the blade edge tolerance (usually these are not ground
totally straight, and you can't make 2 kinda straight edges perfectly
square. And if the blade edges aren't parallel, you gotta choose between
lapping, making the inside square, or making the outside square.

The cheapo new squares can be pushed together (or apart) with hand
pressure alone. I have moved an older one an 1/8" (over a 6" blade) this
way. Of course this technique has its limits, after a point you do have
to lap off. But I have had much more success than with hitting rivets.  
I don't think this will work real well with a machinist style solid
steel square, although I have used it with success on an older all metal
Stanley. 

>I figure that the adjustable combination sqaures are not fixable,
Well, you are wrong here. Whilst travelling, I picked up a 6" Union
combination square in what looked good shape- but I didn't have a
"mother Square" to test. 

It turned out pretty lame, so I started to lap the blade on my scary
sharp setup- much easier than when the blade is fixed... Veterans will
know where this eventually leads. This still seemed like hard work, so I
had the sudden insight- take a knife file and carefully file away,
adjusting one side of the inside of the head, where the rule rests when
pulled tight (this is the real trick!) Might not work on hardened heads-
but they should tend to stay more true in the first place. 

To make a long story short, the square was better, but still off- I
could make the inside square but not the outside. Took me longer than I
care to admit to determine the 2 edges of the rule were not parallel-
and that I may have had a part in this.. 
The proper order:
1)check that the edges on the rule are straight and parallel. If not,
make it so!
2) file the slot (carefully) until you get square.

Wade 

                                                                        
                                                


43144 Jeff Gorman <Jeff@m...> 1998‑05‑12 RE: What to do when squares go bad?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-oldtools@l...
[mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of Stephen
York
Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 5:02 PM
To: oldtools@l...
Subject: What to do when squares go bad?

And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle
from a combination square is correct? My high school geometry is getting
fuzzy nowadays. I gotta get those 45 degree shooting rails right too!

Plane a right-angle and try the correspondence trick by scribing a line
drawn from each edge.

Mind you, you have to have a decent square to get a 'right' right-angle in
the first place.

Reminds me of a song ............ There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza,
dear Liza ....................

And it's perfectly respectable too, though list-mommy might object!

Jeff
--
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire
Jeff@m...
http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html



Recent Bios FAQ