OldTools Archive
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43049 | Stephen York <Stephen.York@E...> | 1998‑05‑11 | What to do when squares go bad? |
Actually they were probably bad to begin with. But I am getting ahead of my story. I was busy making a shooting board this weekend (cannot afford a 51/52), based on one in the back of Watson's book on Handtools. Before mounting the strips which hold the stock at 90 degrees, I started checking all my squares for a true 90, by putting them on a straight board, scratching a line, flipping the square and making another line. I was appalled when I found that the squares I had been trusting to be correct were *WAY* out of square. This includes a machinists square from a well known mail order company that has *NEVER* been dropped or mistreated in any way. The funny thing was that the only square that I own that is right on the money is an old Fulton square I pulled out of my Dad's garage. We used that thing on several houses we built, and several more house rehabs. It has bounced around in a toolbox for God knows how long. So is there any way to fix squares that are not? I figure that the adjustable combination sqaures are not fixable, but I was wondering about an old type square with a blade attached to a handle with 3 pins. And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle from a combination square is correct? My high school geometry is getting fuzzy nowadays. I gotta get those 45 degree shooting rails right too! Thanks in advance! Steve BTW - For those who gave me advice on Epoxy, the SystemThree trial kit for 10 dollars was great. The repair went well, and I saved that plane! Tnanks for the good advice! |
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43052 | Bill Brady <wmbrady@o...> | 1998‑05‑11 | Re: What to do when squares go bad? |
Stephen York Wrote: >So is there any way to fix squares that are not? I figure that the adjustable >combination sqaures are not fixable, but I was wondering about an old type >square with a blade attached to a handle with 3 pins. One method is to file/lap the blade until it's square. Not an easy task if you are trying for the gnats .... other end. > >And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle >from a combination square is correct? Mark off two 45s, you should end up with a 90. The real problem, however, is all the combination squares I've ever owned are square one time, off the next. I guess it all in the wrist when you set 'em. Wm. "Bill" Brady, Harwood MD - Here's hoping that you stay on a happy plane. |
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43057 | John S. North <John.S.North@V...> | 1998‑05‑11 | Re: What to do when squares go bad? |
Steve - I had the same problem and was able to correct it by using a center punch on the pins. Pound (lightly) the pin nearest to the outside corner of the square to correct a square where the angle (inside) is more than 90 degrees. If the inside angle is less than 90 pound on the pin nearest the inside corner. I had to take more than a few whacks at it, checking using your method of flipping the square after each set of poundings, but it corrected the square quite nicely. Of interest: last weekend I visited the Eagle Square plant (Stanley) in Shaftsbury, VT and watched a demonstration of (among other things) truing up a rafter square. Essentially the same idea, but because it's one piece of flat metal and there are no pins a machinsts hammer is used to pound and either expand the metal near the square's outside corner or near the inside corner, depending on the direction of alteration required. The operator keeps the hammer going all the time bouncing it on an anvil with a steady rythm when he's not actually tapping the square, and being ultra careful to have the hammer head hit true so no dings appear on the square. Cheers, John JN in NH |
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43074 | Don Groves <groves@a...> | 1998‑05‑11 | Re: What to do when squares go bad? |
At 09:02 5/11/98 -0700, Stephen York wrote: ...snip... >The funny thing was that the only square that I own that is right on the money >is an old Fulton square I pulled out of my Dad's garage. We used that thing >on several houses we built, and several more house rehabs. It has bounced >around in a toolbox for God knows how long. ...snip... >And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle >from a combination square is correct? Well, you could use the same draw-flip-draw technique as before, but now the lines should meet at 90 degrees. Be sure you use the Fulton to check the 90 ;-) Don Groves |
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43079 | Wade McDonald <Wade.McDonald@l...> | 1998‑05‑11 | Re: What to do when squares go bad? |
GGS, Steve asks about how to square squares (you get quartics). Snip> >I started checking all my squares for a true 90, by putting them on a straight board, scratching a line, flipping the square and making another line. I was appalled when I found that the squares I had been trusting to be correct were *WAY* out of square. This includes a machinists square from a well known mail order company that has *NEVER* been dropped or mistreated in any way. So is there any way to fix squares that are not? Ouch- I would be tempted to send that square back to the mail order company for a replacement- and explain why. In the long run, a machinsts square is nice to have, even if only to tune other squares. Or a minty Starrett combination square (thanks Patrick) which is reserved for special cases- you don't want to drop them! The easiest way to true a square is- to hold the steel blade on the floor and give the handle a whack with the heel of your hand. And if it needs more encouragement, a decent tap with a mallet. If you go overboard, you could induce some twist in the blade- so be careful that you never hit real hard, that the blade is supported, and the direction you whack is in line! I have tuned a fair number this way, no problems yet. In every case, I have been able to move the blade to make the square as good as the blade edge tolerance (usually these are not ground totally straight, and you can't make 2 kinda straight edges perfectly square. And if the blade edges aren't parallel, you gotta choose between lapping, making the inside square, or making the outside square. The cheapo new squares can be pushed together (or apart) with hand pressure alone. I have moved an older one an 1/8" (over a 6" blade) this way. Of course this technique has its limits, after a point you do have to lap off. But I have had much more success than with hitting rivets. I don't think this will work real well with a machinist style solid steel square, although I have used it with success on an older all metal Stanley. >I figure that the adjustable combination sqaures are not fixable, Well, you are wrong here. Whilst travelling, I picked up a 6" Union combination square in what looked good shape- but I didn't have a "mother Square" to test. It turned out pretty lame, so I started to lap the blade on my scary sharp setup- much easier than when the blade is fixed... Veterans will know where this eventually leads. This still seemed like hard work, so I had the sudden insight- take a knife file and carefully file away, adjusting one side of the inside of the head, where the rule rests when pulled tight (this is the real trick!) Might not work on hardened heads- but they should tend to stay more true in the first place. To make a long story short, the square was better, but still off- I could make the inside square but not the outside. Took me longer than I care to admit to determine the 2 edges of the rule were not parallel- and that I may have had a part in this.. The proper order: 1)check that the edges on the rule are straight and parallel. If not, make it so! 2) file the slot (carefully) until you get square. Wade |
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43144 | Jeff Gorman <Jeff@m...> | 1998‑05‑12 | RE: What to do when squares go bad? |
-----Original Message----- From: owner-oldtools@l... [mailto:owner-oldtools@l...]On Behalf Of Stephen York Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 5:02 PM To: oldtools@l... Subject: What to do when squares go bad? And while I got your attention, how would one check if a 45 degree angle from a combination square is correct? My high school geometry is getting fuzzy nowadays. I gotta get those 45 degree shooting rails right too! Plane a right-angle and try the correspondence trick by scribing a line drawn from each edge. Mind you, you have to have a decent square to get a 'right' right-angle in the first place. Reminds me of a song ............ There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza .................... And it's perfectly respectable too, though list-mommy might object! Jeff -- Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire Jeff@m... http://www.millard.demon.co.uk/index.html |
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