OldTools Archive
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272486 | james bennett <jlb5542@g...> | 2021‑01‑09 | Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
Galoots - ebony keys, worth my time in a resale situation? Thanks! James |
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272487 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2021‑01‑09 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
James: Ebony and Ivory, together in CITES harmony! The whole keyboard assembly may come out as a unit for later dissection. Some of my best boyhood projects were made from the "Rock Maple" frame of an upright that I found in a vacant lot. It was so hard that even the tempered nails for hardwood flooring required pilot holes. John Ruth |
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272492 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2021‑01‑09 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
James spots a recycling event… If ’twere me, I’d rescue them. You will find the ivory is a veneer, and could be reused as inlay, the ‘ebony’ may be ebonised, or the good stuff, either eway, it has second uses. and as John said, the main frame sections will make absolutely superb timber. “They don’t grow them like that anymore” Richard Wilson Up before the sun in Northumbria |
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272505 | Kirk Eppler | 2021‑01‑09 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
I'd suggest a search through the archives for any post by Todd Hughes and piano in the same message. I think he has some caveats about quality of material as far as age, real ebony and ivory, etc. Not sure about resale value but reuse maybe. Kirk Eppler from the Droid On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 2:11 AM yorkshireman@y... < yorkshireman@y...> wrote: |
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272517 | Nick Jonkman <njonkman@x...> | 2021‑01‑10 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
Hi guys I haven't been very active lately so thought I needed to chime in. Quite a few years ago I designed and built a special sander for a lady in California. She was replacing the plastic on piano keys with salvaged ivory from old pianos. She actually used new keys and glued the old ivory to these. Since the ivory pieces were not all the same thickness she needed a machine that would surface sand them flat. I built a drum sander for her with 3 or 4 different grits of paper on it with dedicated slot/track for each grit where she could slide the key into to cross the drum. She sent me some new keys and one with salvage ivory on it so I could build the machine to fit. I presume she was happy as I never heard from her again. So yes old ivory can be reused. Nick |
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272523 | Dave T <dwtardiff13@g...> | 2021‑01‑10 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
I just salvaged an old upright recently, by the side of the road. It was just sitting there at the edge of a dirt road when I drove by, a little away from a house. I stopped to look at it, then went on my way. On my return trip, a FREE sign had been added, so I returned with a few tools and went to work. Pianos are built for service, so most of the parts come off pretty easily, even without tools. I removed all the covers, doors, keys, etc, including the large heavy casters on the bottom. I dismantled all that I could, and only missed out on the soundboard (great wood, 100 years later? Why not?) because many of the very large flathead screws attaching the harp to it were underneath strings, and I hadn't come prepared to cut or remove the taught string wires. I did take as many of the large wooden chunks that I could remove, and so far it's all just piled up in the garage. I did remove a few of the ivory key tops as a test, but haven't cut into the black keys yet to verify ebony or not. Even the keys themselves are quite good wood, the black parts are glued on, so they could be ebony.... From the research I did, if the keys are in multiple parts, they're ivory, as the plastic versions are one L-shaped veneer. |
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272524 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑01‑10 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
A freind gave me some piano keys recelty and I salvaged the ivory veneer - I have used it for inlay on a guitar, and a key escutcheon. 8-10 of the 10” long or so pieces of what looked like Sugar Pine that was left after harvesting were in a box. Last night I found that they make AMAZING kindling. Ed Minch |
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272527 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
I have used the recovered Piano key ivory as inlet markers for pairs of winding sticks ( and various other tiny projects). The ivory veneers are usually just a few mm thick and have great color ( but I’m sure many synthetic materials the luthiers use would work just as well, so it is not irreplaceable). Although it may be sinful to slaughter elephants for new ivory, I’m conflicted about governments that insist on destroying even ancient ivory objects on the principle that only a complete ivory ban will stop poaching. I understand it, but I will still save old piano keys whenever I can (most of the more recent ones are all synthetic). It seems the greater sin to put old pianos in the landfill. Upcycle, reuse, and repurpose I say. Maybe it is wrong? The older I get, the less certain I am... Cheers Claudio |
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272535 | James DuPrie <jbn.duprie@g...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
can't imagine what that smelled like (sanding ivory). If its anything like bone, I'd want to be far away. On the other hand, I've been dreaming of a new piano with old ivory on the keys for a looong time.... Good to know I'm not hte only one.. -James |
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272538 | David Wittner <dwittne@u...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
Jumping in late and perhaps a bit off topic but I've been known to salvage (from) the occasional piano. Strip the ivory from the keys, ebony as well. Piano tuner pointed out that it was Gabon ebony. I'll take any solid wood, i.e., not veneer, from the carcass, if there's any, and bring the frame to the scrap yard-- last one was 200lbs of cast iron. If you really want to have fun there are lead counterweights in the keys that amount to several pounds. The ebony ends up as keys or glue ups for knife scales. Haven't used any of the ivory yet. Wood has found its way into various projects and the scraped metals support my tool habit! I've yet to find anything cool to do with the strings other than line burners for turning. Disclaimer: I only do this to pianos heading for the garbage dump, and even then feel guilty about "killing" an instrument. DGW -----Original Message----- From: OldTools |
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272541 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
It doesn't smell to bad when you lightly scrape it, IIRC. Might do, if you go at it hard, generating more heat. Don On 2021-01-11 6:44 a.m., James DuPrie wrote: > can't imagine what that smelled like (sanding ivory). If its anything like > bone, I'd want to be far away. > > On the other hand, I've been dreaming of a new piano with old ivory on the > keys for a looong time.... Good to know I'm not hte only one.. > -James > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nick Jonkman |
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272544 | gary may | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Faux ivory |
Hi Ed--- Wonderful guitar you've built there. Sounds wonderful too! Reminding us all, perhaps, that 'amateur' means 'lover', and not 'bungler'. Proud to know the Minches; gam in OlyWA/USA How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one cares for none of them! Jane Austen On Sunday, January 10, 2021, 05:50:42 PM PST, Ed Minch |
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272546 | james bennett <jlb5542@g...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
The piano yielded some very nice ebony keys (based on uniformly color throughout), ivory keys, several 3x3 timbers of 4 foot length and several 3x3 odds and ends of the tightest, high count grain wood I've ever seen. I'll get back with a count and photo. Used hand tools in the disassembly, and found very little joinery beyond butt joints, glue and LOTS of slotted screws. Initially, a little bit of disappointment in the craftsmanship, but on reflection, the strength of the assembly supporting the soundboard/harp included what appeared to be shopmade "plywood", all butt joints were tight fitting, glue joints survived 100+ years for glue ups, etc, so feeling a little guilt about the salvage, but all an all an interesting lesson. Thank you to everyone for your comments, very informative. James |
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272549 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
One way to check for eboiny is its weight - very heavy and when you drop it on a metal serface, small pieces “clink” really nicely. It is 62+ lbs/ft3, so about twice as heavy as cherry, mahogany, or walnut. Ed Miknch |
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272553 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2021‑01‑11 | Re: Faux ivory |
> On Jan 11, 2021, at 1:08 PM, scott grandstaff |
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272554 | Dave T <dwtardiff13@g...> | 2021‑01‑12 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
The keys from my old piano seem to have cylindrical lead weights in them....I suppose I should remove them before I burn them.... |
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272563 | Clifford Fales <cfales1407@c...> | 2021‑01‑12 | Re: Scrapping a piano tomorrow |
Another use for ivory when parting out a piano: In the late 19th & early 20th centuries fashionable ladies carried small notebooks with very thin ivory pages ---- write with pencil and rub off to erase. Front and back covers for the notebook might also be ivory, or other material, i.e. mother of pearl, tortoise shell, silver There is some ambiguity about the names used for this item: aide-memoire, carnet de bal, chatelaine. An example of the most common configuration is: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.worthpoint.co m%2Fzoom%2Fimages2%2F1%2F0107%2F14%2Ffab-victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-b rass_1_78832331a9c4445a415df14b9c99f595.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worthpoi nt.com%2Fworthopedia%2Ffab-victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-brass&tbnid=kZc T2jYH6AxdRM&vet=12ahUKEwjo0cPgvJfuAhWCRs0KHSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX..i&docid =RNOZD_anmf-zhM&w=400&h=232&q=antique%20ladies%20ivory%20notebook&client=firefox -b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwjo0cPgvJfuAhWCRs0KHSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX">https://www.google.com /imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.worthpoint.com%2Fzoom%2Fimages2%2F1%2F0107%2 F14%2Ffab-victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-brass_1_78832331a9c4445a415df14b 9c99f595.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worthpoint.com%2Fworthopedia%2Ffab- victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-brass&tbnid=kZcT2jYH6AxdRM&vet=12ahUKEwjo0 cPgvJfuAhWCRs0KHSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX..i&docid=RNOZD_anmf-zhM&w=400&h=232&q=antiqu e%20ladies%20ivory%20notebook&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwjo0cPgvJfuAhWCRs0K HSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX <https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.worthpoint.c om%2Fzoom%2Fimages2%2F1%2F0107%2F14%2Ffab-victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w- brass_1_78832331a9c4445a415df14b9c99f595.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worthpo int.com%2Fworthopedia%2Ffab-victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-brass&tbnid=kZ cT2jYH6AxdRM&vet=12ahUKEwjo0cPgvJfuAhWCRs0KHSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX..i&docid =RNOZD_anmf-zhM&w=400&h=232&q=antique%20ladies%20ivory%20notebook&client=firefox -b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwjo0cPgvJfuAhWCRs0KHSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX">https://www.google.com /imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.worthpoint.com%2Fzoom%2Fimages2%2F1%2F0107%2 F14%2Ffab-victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-brass_1_78832331a9c4445a415df14b 9c99f595.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worthpoint.com%2Fworthopedia%2Ffab- victorian-ladies-old-ivory-notebook-w-brass&tbnid=kZcT2jYH6AxdRM&vet=12ahUKEwjo0 cPgvJfuAhWCRs0KHSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX..i&docid=RNOZD_anmf-zhM&w=400&h=232&q=antiqu e%20ladies%20ivory%20notebook&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwjo0cPgvJfuAhWCRs0K HSgRDlUQMygDegQIARBX> Someone is now making them from recycled piano keys. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fd121tcdkpp02p4.cloudf ront.net%2Fclim%2F34624%2Fminiature- notebook-1340547641.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goosebay- workshops.com%2FWhat-s-In-Your-Pocket-&tbnid=Gjuzwa2dyYjM7M&vet=12ahUKEwir5t_1qZ XuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUIARC8AQ..i&docid=16QolzCmX_SRYM&w=886&h=287&q=ivory%20n otebook&hl=en&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwir5t_1qZXuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUI ARC8AQ">https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fd121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfr ont.net%2Fclim%2F34624%2Fminiature- notebook-1340547641.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goosebay- workshops.com%2FWhat-s-In-Your-Pocket-&tbnid=Gjuzwa2dyYjM7M&vet=12ahUKEwir5t_1qZ XuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUIARC8AQ..i&docid=16QolzCmX_SRYM&w=886&h=287&q=ivory%20n otebook&hl=en&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwir5t_1qZXuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUI ARC8AQ <https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fd121tcdkpp02p4.cloud front.net%2Fclim%2F34624%2Fminiature- notebook-1340547641.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goosebay- workshops.com%2FWhat-s-In-Your-Pocket-&tbnid=Gjuzwa2dyYjM7M&vet=12ahUKEwir5t_1qZ XuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUIARC8AQ..i&docid=16QolzCmX_SRYM&w=886&h=287&q=ivory%20n otebook&hl=en&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwir5t_1qZXuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUI ARC8AQ">https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fd121tcdkpp02p4.cloudfr ont.net%2Fclim%2F34624%2Fminiature- notebook-1340547641.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goosebay- workshops.com%2FWhat-s-In-Your-Pocket-&tbnid=Gjuzwa2dyYjM7M&vet=12ahUKEwir5t_1qZ XuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUIARC8AQ..i&docid=16QolzCmX_SRYM&w=886&h=287&q=ivory%20n otebook&hl=en&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwir5t_1qZXuAhUZUc0KHbfMDBMQMygJegUI ARC8AQ> Regards, Cliff |
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