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272056 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | windows above benches |
for those of you with windows above your benches, how high above the bench is the sill? what do you keep there? i know it will vary, i'm just trying to get ideas. i am building a workspace, and have a window i am thinking about putting above my 33" high bench. thanks, bill felton, ca |
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272060 | Robert Brazile <r.brazile@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
A couple inches. Nothing on the sill itself, but I have a tendency to prop things on the concrete block foundation wall just beneath it. Not a great place for things, so I'm trying to break that habit by making specific places for the things I usually put there -- can be anything from a shooting board to unused trammel points to the scrap blocks I use for protecting items being clamped or uh, held fast. I have, however, taken a note from the Schwarz and hung chisel racks and a shelf for layout tools across the windows, which I've found to be very handy. Although I have to be a bit careful opening the window on the right in nice weather. Here's a shot that shows the idea, with a bonus incipient Saalburg bench in progress last spring. https://flic.kr/p/2j1sVLd Robert Brazile Arlington, Mass. |
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272061 | Troy Livingston <livingstonstandardtime@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
The windows in my new shop are about 48" up from the floor, this works because I also have a 10 ft ceiling. Note: I only determined it to be a workable shop and not a room filled with heaps of old crap last weekend so haven't had a chance to work with things. The sills are horizontal surfaces, so attract the usual detritus, most of the stuff there now are things I haven't sorted out where to keep or indeed if they are to be kept. My wife can't open the windows and it would be a stretch for me to reach over the bench to do so. However I put these in purely for natural light and haven't opened them since the construction was completed. I'm in North Florida and the prevailing winds make the windows at each end of the building useful for ventilation during the brief periods in the spring and fall when it makes sense. Photo: <https://www.flickr.com/photos/91137513@N.../50575413313/in/dateposted-public/> Troy |
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272063 | Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
I’m a fan of windows, so I was delighted that the decades old add on to the add on became my shop when we moved into our “forever home” in 2007. Single pane aluminum, and the roof leaks, but I do get light. I don’t care that sills collect things. Clearly not a working shop, but I can do the standard buy-another-tub-and-clear-the-bench-off dance as good as anyone! https://share.icloud.com/photos/0swOJsJpKa0K246kUEQDpwk_w |
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272065 | Michael Suwczinsky <nicknaylo@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
Just spent this mornings coffee rebuilding the rack for the braces and pondering Bill's question. I've got a windowsill and added shelf about 8 inches above my 36 inch high workbench and the shelf is a mix of stuff that gets grabbed all the time, Beeswax, soapstone, block planes, tape measures, rules, calipers etc and little used tools, shop momentos and cool stuff. There is also a Schwarz inspired wooden tool rack, screwdrivers, pointing things, sharp things and pliers, across the 40 inch window. South facing lets in way too much light, chiaroscuro light! Considering an awning over that window. https://www.flickr.com/photos/10735775@N.../50576055658/in/dateposted-public/ I like a handy shelf but am also a packrat. It's probably unwise, structurally, to have so much stuff hung on the walls. Some culling has been occurring. Looking forward to Bill's new shop warming one day. Michael On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:06 PM Dragon List |
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272066 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
I can't believe you are getting to pick!! hahaahaah My old bench is in front of the window because it was the logical place to put it. The window is about a foot above the bench surface? I am not saying I laid it out that way, but I have "made do" for decades and it hasn't hurt me much. heehehe I do have lots of stuff on the window sill. Ha My most used drivers, awls, bits and chisels. Real important to me was fitting the "filler strip" to tightly fit the uneven concrete wall behind the bench. Super inconvenient trying to fish out stuff that fell off behind the bench. Took me a few years to break down and fit one. http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/shop%20pix/oldbench4.jpg yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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272068 | Phil Koontz <phil.koontz@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
Hi Scott-- And everyone else, of course. I don't chip in very often anymore, and this is definitely a small chip, but-- My feeling about windows is that they should maximize the view and the light. If you have a choice in where they go, consider a. The top of the window should be a bit above eye level. b. Generally, the top of the windows should be level. It's visually jarring to see some higher than others. The windows in my son Ben's shop, which we built a couple of years ago, are 4 feet square, and the sills are even with the bench top. That puts the top of the windows at 7 feet, which works well with the wall framing. PK Still here, just don't talk much. On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 9:51 AM scott grandstaff |
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272070 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
GG's: My two cents worth regarding shop windows and racks / shelves across same: A now-passed neighbor had a big workshop shed, maybe 600 sq. Ft., on his oversized lot. He had a long window about a foot above the bench, extending to slightly above eye level. Thus, it was wide but not tall. Seemed like a wonderful place to stand and work; good outdoor view. That said: 1) DO NOT block your fire emergency egress by building fixed shelves or racks across the window! Make them so that they can lift off wooden pegs and be tossed aside in a panic. 2) Consider the effects of ultraviolet light on anything you intend to hang in a sunny window. I'd love to have a rack of screwdrivers, nut-drivers, and the like with beautiful translucent Tennite handles in many colors across a window. When the sunlight shines through them, it would be the galoot's equivalent to stained glass! Trouble is, I think the sunlight would embrittle them. Just my thoughts. My benches are on blank walls. John Ruth |
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272071 | Kirk Eppler | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
You've seen my shop, shortly after this pic was taken. No window above the bench, but a shelf about 2": below eye level, then the power strip / tool rack some inches above the work surface. Because of rust concerns, I don't keep edge tools behind the power strip, but awls, turnscrews, plane hammer, squares and marking gauges are there for the most part. The shelf holds a joiner too big for the drawer, some folding rules, bottles of BLO beeswax turps., scratch paper, winding sticks etc. There is a magnet on the front now for sticking ideas up, project notes, etc. Dang, forgot about the two holes for holdfasts on the end, they have not been home in a while. Of course, the whole bench hasn't been that clean since the Bagathon in 2010 <https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/BAGaThons-and- Gatherings/100912-BAGaThon-KE/">https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking /BAGaThons-and-Gatherings/100912-BAGaThon-KE/> https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Shop-Stuff/i-6d8GkVP On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:06 PM Dragon List |
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272072 | Greg Isola <gregorywisola@g...> | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
Hey, Bill: A subject near and dear to my heart! When I moved into my shop, I immediately placed my 3-foot high bench > beneath a 2x6 foot window with a bottom sill roughly 5 feet above the > floor. This is a relatively high window. Great light, and plenty of room > for wall-mounted tool storage beneath (but still well above benchtop > height). Except for an hour or two each afternoon when the sun was in my > eyes, this was a great setup. (I share John's general concern about tools > stored in direct sunlight.) But... I've since flipped my bench 180 degrees and moved it 3-4 feet from the wall. I installed a sturdy, foot-wide shelf under the long window and placed three machinist chests on the shelf. Now I work with my back to the window with my most-used tools in the banks of little drawers right behind me (or scattered across the benchtop). Instead of the sun in my eyes every so often, I now get shadows on the benchtop in the late afternoon, but this is fixable with shop lighting. So I'm not a big proponent of a bench you can walk all the way around. It is not always an option, of course, but if it is, I recommend giving it a try. I have vises mounted on opposite corners and have several mini workstations all around the bench. This suits my work, but of course your mileage may vary! Take care, all of you. Greg Isola Alameda, CA |
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272073 | galoot@l... | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
Do I see recycled curved front dresser drawers in that pic? Excellent use of material... Esther Quoting scott grandstaff |
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272074 | Erik Levin | 2020‑11‑07 | Re: windows above benches |
This is one of those things where I am kind of torn: On one hand, it is nice to have a view On the other, I worked in a shop with a bench, lathe, drill press, and milling machine backed up to the windows, and a southern view, and other lathe and mill on the other side of the 5m wide (20m long) room, so the light was to the operators back. Stool height was a bit below the bench height, maybe 50mm. This experience told me that the direction matters. The southern view brought lots of light, but all direct. It was less than ideal much of the day for the bench and machines that faced the window. It also told me that the window stool should not be an extension of the bench, and that it is REALLY easy to break a window at that height and proximity. It also told me that a screen (or sheet of lexan) between the lathe and a window is useful, though the shop manager didn't agree. Then again, he didn't seem to care about the mess, and would yell when someone (usually me) tried to clean it up. Really. My current drafting space at home has waist to ceiling, north facing windows behind the drafting table, and skylights with diffusers. Beautiful. Fantastic light during the day. Highly recommended (above 30 degrees north, at least). The shop space I had with west facing a number of years ago (nice until about 2PM, good otherwise) had window stool about 300mm (12 inches) above the bench surface, two windows behind the bench, topping nice and high (2.5m? maybe). This was good. Shelf was between the windows (maybe 800mm long) but nothing to block the view or risk breakage of glass. This was my space, so I could do that. My current shop space (personal) is basement, so the windows are high enough that they do not come into play in this topic. *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply address(es) may not match the originating address |
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272080 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2020‑11‑09 | Re: windows above benches |
thanks, all. i’m at a decision point on a workspace i am building. i like the idea of a view (otherwise why live where i do?), and the wall in question faces mildly west of south. trees shade most of the morning light in summer, and winter light here is not so harsh (and it will be good to have). i have an old steel double casement window @3x3’ to install into an 8’ wall over a 33” bench height, so it sounds best to push it to the top of the wall and have space between. greg, it’s just not going to be big enough in there (think michael’s) to have four side access... best, bill felton, ca |
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272106 | Michael Suwczinsky <nicknaylo@g...> | 2020‑11‑12 | Re: windows above benches |
I’ve actually tried all around bench access in my 12x12 workspace. It’s doable for a specific project, which initially was the workbench itself! 4x4 doug fir, with small scale timber framed trestles. The bench got dragged, pushed and levered to the middle of the floor when the sill on the south wall rotted out and needed replacing, along with the window over the bench. You get good at sucking in your gut as you squeeze through the narrow spaces at each end, sometimes it's easier to climb over. Michael |
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272107 | "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> | 2020‑11‑12 | Re: windows above benches |
Gentles, My shop is half of a longish two-car garage with two windows on the long side. Unfortunately they are under the deck so no direct light. As always, I have my bench about three feet out from the wall and I like the flexibility that it gives me. It also allows me to use the entire wall for tool storage with easy access. Since I've been sheltering in place since February, my productivity has gone way up and I've finished lots of projects, but that's for another email. Cheers, John Johnston "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." Dave Barry. |
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272109 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2020‑11‑13 | Re: windows above benches |
On 2020-11-12 11:27 a.m., Michael Suwczinsky wrote: > I’ve actually tried all around bench access in my 12x12 workspace. It’s > doable for a specific project, which initially was the workbench itself! > 4x4 doug fir, with small scale timber framed trestles. The bench got > dragged, pushed and levered to the middle of the floor when the sill on the > south wall rotted out and needed replacing, along with the window over the > bench. > You get good at sucking in your gut as you squeeze through the narrow > spaces at each end, sometimes it's easier to climb over. I've had all-around access for many years. I'm in an unfinished basement, and don't want to back my bench against the concrete. ( My new bench has a heavy 4x4 trestle Doug Fir base too, supporting the split-top LV bench kit in a design much modified their plans. ) I've got tool panels on the concrete behind me, using French cleats bolted to the concrete. On the other side of the bench I have access to my midi lathe, wrenches and other misc tools & supplies weighing down the low repurposed cabinet where the lathe sits. When I'm turning, the bench behind me provides space for tools, supplies, drawings etc that I want handy for turning. It's so convenient, I can't imagine not having access all around. But then I have the floor space. (I'd have even more space if I ever finish the restoration of a large Georgian chest I started a few years ago. In the meanwhile, it provides storage...). Don -- “If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.” - Bill Gates |
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272110 | "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> | 2020‑11‑13 | Re: windows above benches |
Don, Last month I completed a mahogany end of bed chest that I began in 1969. I had the carcase and an ill fitting lid. The coffin as it was dubbed traveled from attics, garages, and basements in Austin TX, Arlington Heights IL, Knoxville TN, Chicago, Columbus OH, Milwaukee, Memphis, TN, and Asheville, NC. 51 years later I made a proper lid, added moulding top and bottom, made dovetailed bracket feet, dyed the whole, wiped on oil followed by 4 coats of 1-pound cut shellac. My longest term project. Cheers, John Johnston “There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.” |
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272111 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑11‑14 | Re: windows above benches |
God bless, John. Correct me if I’m wrong, but 51 years to complete a project is not a record with this group. Cheers from Waterloo Claudio On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 4:43 PM John M Johnston (jmjhnstn) < jmjhnstn@m...> wrote: |
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272112 | "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> | 2020‑11‑14 | Re: windows above benches |
Claudio, I can’t say about the group as a whole, but it is for me! Cheers, John Johnston “There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.” ________________________________ |
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272117 | Thomas Conroy | 2020‑11‑15 | Re: windows above benches |
Claudio wrote: " bless, John. "Correct me if I?m wrong, but 51 years to complete a project is not a record with this group. "Cheers from Waterloo" So what is the record for this group? I'm not in contention---my longest to completion is around thirty years, and my longest (several of them) still not done but still needed urgently, is about 35 years. So who can top 51 years to completion? Anyone have a project still moving but not yet done that is over 51? What about completed projects from the archives--- Anyone remember longer-than-51-years projects from past luminaries? Tom Conroy |
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272118 | Bill Ghio | 2020‑11‑15 | Re: windows above benches |
> On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:58 PM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools |
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272119 | don schwartz <dks@t...> | 2020‑11‑15 | Re: windows above benches |
On 2020-11-15 1:58 p.m., Thomas Conroy wrote: > Claudio wrote: > " bless, John. > "Correct me if I?m wrong, but 51 years to complete a project is not a > record > with this group. > "Cheers from Waterloo" > > > So what is the record for this group? I'm not in contention---my > longest to completion is around thirty years, and my longest (several > of them) still not done but still needed urgently, is about 35 years. > > So who can top 51 years to completion? Anyone have a project still > moving but not yet done that is over 51? What about completed projects > from the archives---Anyone remember longer-than-51-years projects from > past luminaries? > > Tom Conroy Well I'm out - unless you count the wooden model motorboat I put together in my teens and failed to fix when it started to come apart at the seems due to repeated immersions. I didn't know what to do, so I put it in a box. I saw the box recently and thought m_a_y_be.... BUT it's not currently moving forward. The rocking horse carving I started in my twenties doesn't even come close. It's lying on a high shelf.... Don -- “It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare; it is because we do not dare that things are difficult.” — Seneca |
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272121 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑11‑16 | Re: windows above benches |
I might be having a deja vu moment, but I think we had a similar discussion a few years ago. Alas, I am not able to find it- but I recall that it was a stunning result. Perhaps someone else remembers or is able to locate it? Cheers from Windy Waterloo (entering COVID emergency protocol situation Orange tomorrow). Sigh. Claudio On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 4:04 PM Thomas Conroy |
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272122 | Tim <tpendleton@g...> | 2020‑11‑16 | Re: windows above benches |
It is certainly comforting to learn about aloof these valiant efforts to keep our group average up! Tim On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 4:05 PM Thomas Conroy via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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272123 | Troy Livingston <livingstonstandardtime@g...> | 2020‑11‑16 | Re: windows above benches |
Indeed. I thought I might be a contender with an Egyptian themed box intended to hold floppy disks that I started in High School roughly 40 years ago. I have it out in my new shop and occasionally think that I may yet finish one of these days. Except now I have a record to strive for, fame and fortune await in a mere decade or two. Troy |
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272124 | Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> | 2020‑11‑16 | Re: windows above benches |
How does one measure the starting point? For example, if one completes a dimensioned drawing of the project but didn't actually start cutting cellulose until 20 years later, does that count as a 20 year project? -Paul, in SF, who completes no project before its time On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:12 AM Troy Livingston < livingstonstandardtime@g...> wrote: |
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272125 | Kirk Eppler | 2020‑11‑16 | Re: windows above benches |
How about a project someone else started, a box for example, that I finally put the lid’s hinges on 40+ years later. Or finishing (shellac etc) a project that has sat at 95%. So many complications, that have real backstories with them. Kirk, in Half Moon Bay, whose weekend was spent on repair and cleaning of non list sanctioned items. Tho the cookies that come out of the mixer might be sanctioned, or at least acceptable at a BAGaThon. On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:14 AM Paul Gardner |
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272126 | Troy Livingston <livingstonstandardtime@g...> | 2020‑11‑16 | Re: windows above benches |
I'm beginning to think that we have this backwards. In a group where long term projects are the rule perhaps we should be looking at the quickest completion time for a project although the same questions apply. I have one that had a hard deadline of Christmas Eve and was completed in two days. But then that was several years after my wife showed me the broken sewing stiletto and I made the mistake of saying "sure I can make something better". So perhaps that doesn't count. Troy |
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272127 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2020‑11‑17 | Re: windows above benches |
Hi Troy, I think maybe we have all completed 'emergency projects' within shockingly narrow time constraints, so the quickest to completion wouldn't be much fun because almost all of us would all be potential candidates. The fun projects are those 'special' ones, complete with 'drying out of special timbers', sourcing of vintage hardware, careful 'design considerations' and ' design research' that takes decades and decades of careful thought (and the occasional beer or glass of scotch with "project advisors"). So maybe I was wrong about 'not a record' ( at least, I can't find the discussion- so maybe it was a different woodworking group or something I was thinking of?). Perhaps 51 years is a notable record, and I was wrong not to celebrate the relatively speedy completion of John Johnston's project in just over a half century. I want to correct the record, and I hereby nominate John Johnston as current record holder of Not On Time Award (NOTA) - perhaps the more clever amongst us can find a better name? Never Quick Award? Better Late Than Never Award? Perhaps we have something tangible we can present to John for his valiant efforts? Awards to be delivered posthumously (of course). Cheers from Locked Down Waterloo, (Where ALL Businesses are slowly bleeding to death, while huge conglomerates laugh all the way to the bank) Claudio Don, Last month I completed a mahogany end of bed chest that I began in 1969. I had the carcase and an ill fitting lid. The coffin as it was dubbed traveled from attics, garages, and basements in Austin TX, Arlington Heights IL, Knoxville TN, Chicago, Columbus OH, Milwaukee, Memphis, TN, and Asheville, NC. 51 years later I made a proper lid, added moulding top and bottom, made dovetailed bracket feet, dyed the whole, wiped on oil followed by 4 coats of 1-pound cut shellac. My longest term project. Cheers, John Johnston On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:44 PM Troy Livingston < livingstonstandardtime@g...> wrote: |
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272128 | Tim <tpendleton@g...> | 2020‑11‑17 | Re: windows above benches |
On Monday, November 16, 2020, Claudio DeLorenzi |
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