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268078 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2019‑03‑12 Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
GG’s,

Joel’s blog at ToolsForWorkingWood.<http://toolsforworkingwood.com/>com
suggests the following abbreviations for dispositions of tools left on your
workbench.

Original here:
https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/1112/title/The
%20Desk%20of%20Lost%20Souls

NIWIG - No Idea Where it Goes

NTGBITC - Needs to Go Back Into the  Collection.

MT - My Toolbox

I suggest adding a couple:

SB, meaning Scrap Bin. (British version might be SS - Scrap Skip, as the Brits
refer to large scrap and rubbish bins as “skips”). An example would be “basket
cases” found in “box lots”.  Chisels with badly pitted backs, worn-out files,
etc.  Note that I haven’t said one word about actually taking this bin of
repurpose-able metal to a scrap dealer.  ;)

PB - Parts Bin, for partially-complete tools which were acquired to be “parted
out” for pieces to repair other tools.  For this, I thank the late Mike Dunbar,
whose influential book “Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools”
pointed out that one should buy any antique tool parts which cross your path;
you never know what “needy” tool you’ll acquire in the future.

John Ruth
268079 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2019‑03‑12 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
My addition would be   LIT    Leave it there

And $212 for a scratch awl???

Ed Minch
268081 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑03‑12 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
On 2019-03-12 11:18 a.m., Ed Minch wrote:
> My addition would be   LIT    Leave it there
Good one.
>
> And $212 for a scratch awl???

All the cool kids have one!

Don

-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.
Thomas Paine

Being offended doesn't make you right.
268082 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2019‑03‑12 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Ed,

I failed to include the customary “no relation” disclaimer.  In this case, I’m
not even a customer of toolsforworkingwood.com<http://toolsforworkingwood.com>

The $212 awl appears to be one of those bespoke heirloom quality awls which one
purchases primarily so that one can say:

“Someday, son, this AWL will be yours!”

John Ruth
Ducking and Running



Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 12, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Ed Minch mailto:ruby1638@a...>> wrote:

My addition would be   LIT    Leave it there

And $212 for a scratch awl???

Ed Minch

On Mar 12, 2019, at 12:57 PM, John Ruth mailto:johnrruth@h...>> wrote:

GG’s,

Joel’s blog at ToolsForWorkingWood.<http://toolsforworkingwood.com/>com
suggests the following abbreviations for dispositions of tools left on your
workbench.

Original here:
https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/1112/title/The
%20Desk%20of%20Lost%20Souls

NIWIG - No Idea Where it Goes

NTGBITC - Needs to Go Back Into the  Collection.

MT - My Toolbox

I suggest adding a couple:

SB, meaning Scrap Bin. (British version might be SS - Scrap Skip, as the Brits
refer to large scrap and rubbish bins as “skips”). An example would be “basket
cases” found in “box lots”.  Chisels with badly pitted backs, worn-out files,
etc.  Note that I haven’t said one word about actually taking this bin of
repurpose-able metal to a scrap dealer.  ;)

PB - Parts Bin, for partially-complete tools which were acquired to be “parted
out” for pieces to repair other tools.  For this, I thank the late Mike Dunbar,
whose influential book “Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools”
pointed out that one should buy any antique tool parts which cross your path;
you never know what “needy” tool you’ll acquire in the future.

John Ruth
268083 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2019‑03‑12 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Ba-dump - good one

Ed
268087 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2019‑03‑12 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
And $212 for a scratch awl???

I love it!! And its not even a birdcage awl. Just a plain point.

   I'm rich!! hahahahaa

     yours Scott

*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
268088 Thomas Conroy 2019‑03‑12 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Ed Minch wrote:

"My addition would be  LIT    Leave it there

"And $212 for a scratch awl???"



My addition would be "NFSP"----Needed For Stalled Project. That would keep the
tool or whatever on the bench for 10 years minimum. I have fine bindings I
completed 25 years after I started them, and others that aren't yet completed
after a longer wait.

$212 for a scratch awl? Well....I'm inclined to be tolerant. They are (I am
serious here) trickier to make than it would seem, and the price reflects time
making it and bringing it to market.

I used to turn quite a few awls for sewing books. Basically a leatherworkers'
awl in one of several styles, made of various fancy wood scrap. Blades made of
(sharp) binders' needles, which means you can prepunch holes and do the actual
sewing with a (round-point) harness needle. Intricate shapes make the awls
easier to hold and use, and fun to turn. I never had two come out quite the
same, which is also fun; and it meant that each person who tried them liked a
different one. At that time I got part of my income from selling wooden binding
equipment, so I checked the time it took me to make them pretty carefully; they
would have made a great addition to what I offered. But I found that all told I
was spending two hours on each one, including splitting or sawing out the blank
through sanding to 600 grit with raising the grain three times at 150 and 180,
and a spit coat of shellac. At my then shop rate this translated into $40-$60 if
sold face-to-face, no marketing expense. I couldn't see charging that much when
I bought the handles that inspired me for $5 each, and when new common awls were
under $15, so I never made them for sale, just used them as presents for
friends. (I may have been wrong about their saleability.)

The $212 awls are all the same design, to they are mass producable, but they are
also a much more intricate mixture of more materials. Including, by the way, a
ridiculous hardened steel replacable point. Sheeeit. I suppose when you wear the
old one out, you go down to the local Ace Hardware to get a replacement? What's
wrong with regrinding the whole blade when needed? Take it from me, no one who
would spend this money for an awl would ever use it enough to need to replace
the blade....Ahem. Back to supporting the price.

Let's suppose I had made my $60 awl in Australia, and lets look at what happens
to the price (ignoring rates of exchange for simplicity). Basic cost $60. VAT
$20 (just a guess, but I'm always shocked by the VAT on stuff from abroad).
Postage and shipping $20, assuming several awls in a box, based on rates for
chisels on eBay. We're at $100 already. Retailer's markup 40%; I don't know what
is customary in the boutique tools trade, but this isn't unlike stuff I know
about in the past, like new books. Now we're already at $140 for a two-material
awl, which looks to my eyes just as ridiculous as $212 for the four-material
precision-fitted awl under examination (the replacable tip would have to be
precision work).

I'm surprised that anyone would spend this much money for an awl; me, I doubt
I've ever spent even $10. But I'm not surprised that this much would be charged
for it, and I certainly wouldn't be upset. The cost here seems to be just a
reflection of the cost of production.

I don't see much I like about these awls; they seem over-engineered,
aesthetically heavy, and butt ugly. I've always disliked this basic style awl,
with a little round lump on the extreme end of a long shaft; for years I looked
for a use for them, and I never found anything that wasn't done far better by an
awl with a longer handle and a shorter shaft. But if you like them? Well,
there's no accounting for tastes.

Tom Conroy
268089 Troy Livingston <horologist@w...> 2019‑03‑13 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
I'm with Tom on this one. While I don't much like the style, I can see 
it would be a bit of work to make.
I once made a sewing stiletto (an awl like object) for my wife for 
Christmas. My family has a tradition where we draw names and you have to 
make that person their present.
After a frantic two days, (Did I mention the procrastination runs strong 
in my family?) I managed to just get this assembled in time to take a 
shower and head in for Christmas dinner followed by the gift exchange.

h
ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/91137513@N.../albums/72157649926272081

I don't think I would want to do it for much less than $212. Although I 
suppose the second one would be easier.

Troy
268090 Brian Rytel <tesla.drummer@g...> 2019‑03‑13 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
NAGATOIW: Not As Good As The One I Want(ed)
NAGATOIAF: Similar but "Asked For"

JSEFOMC: Just Sharp Enough For One More Cut

CTTCT: Closer Than The Correct Tool

STALUALLAC: Stranded To Avoid Lining Up And Looking Like A Collection

ICSI-E: I Can Save It - Eventually
-L: Later
-S: Soon
-N: Now (hypothetical)
-FBTOASEES: From Being Throw Out After Someone Else's Estate Sale

ETFOABP: Easier To Find In A Big Pile
ETFOASP: Easier To Find In A Small Pile

LOTAB: Left Out To Appear Busy

Brian Rytel
-Ducking and running
268092 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2019‑03‑13 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
ATMRT

Ah, there’s my round tuit

Ed Minch
268098 galoot@l... 2019‑03‑13 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Quoting Troy Livingston :

Lovely! although if anyone else has a super-emergency need for such an 
item a non-wood version easily made can be seen at 
http://qui
ltville.blogspot.com/2012/04/marys-stilettos.html  (on the 
round tuit list...)

What is the dark (blue?) banding on the ferrule?  How did you do it?

Esther  thinking the decoration might work on other items.

> I once made a sewing stiletto (an awl like object) for my wife for 
> Christmas. My family has a tradition where we draw names and you
have
> to make that person their present.
> After a frantic two days, (Did I mention the procrastination runs 
> strong in my family?) I managed to just get this assembled in time
to
268099 Claudio DeLorenzi <admin@d...> 2019‑03‑13 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
>
> Stiletto

Nice work Troy, very lovely.  Care to share the details of construction?
The banding really stands out.
Claudio
268105 Thomas Conroy 2019‑03‑13 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Troy "once made a sewing stiletto (an awl like object) for my wife for 
Christmas..."

h
ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/91137513@N.../albums/72157649926272081


Gorgous! Lovely! This is a tool it would be a joy to use.



[ramble starts] It is very similar in size and "presence" to a leather braiding
fid, a tool I use all the time for sewing books.
https://www.amazon.com/C
-S-Osborne-Fid-Made-477/dp/B00YLCHK56/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=leather+fid&qid=155251
3472&s=gateway&sr=8-3
I use the fid for pulling short (like 1/8") lengths of thread tauter, and
especially for undoing knots and tangles. Leatherworkers use them for braiding,
and for lacing together craft projects by whipping leather lace around the
edges. Its a different tool from a sailor's fid, though the use is analogous;
but the scale is way different (perhaps 4" as opposed to maybe 12"). I was lucky
in having bought my first one in the early '80s, when they were being made
exactly as they were before WWII (based on photos on manuals). Shortly after
that they were hit by cost accounnting, manufacture was moved to a cheaper
company that used too long a handle and didn't understand the shape of the
point. Several cycles of different makers (the demand and price are so low that
there is only one pattern being sold at one time), then back to something that
looks like the one I originally bought, though the point is no longer quite
right. The point is actually a highly refined shape, thin enough to go between
threads but no9t so thin that it pierces a thread, spreading enough to pushs the
threads away from each other but not so spread that it jams, and flat to reduce
friction but not too flat.  When I was teaching book sewing I needed one with a
reworked point for each student, and since the students couldn't buy them with
the right tip shape I would sell them for cost of the basic tool. I must have
reshaped over a hundred over the years. I did make one for myself from scratch,
of black locust and brass, but concluded that brass was a bit too soft for the
job. [ramble ends]


Tom Conroy
Berkeley
268140 Troy Livingston <horologist@w...> 2019‑03‑20 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Answers a little delayed by a trip to Baltimore.

          Esther asks:
           " What is the dark (blue?) banding on the ferrule?  How did 
you do it? "

The blue is heat blued steel. I blued the entire thing and then polished 
it away from the areas that I wanted bare.

           Claudio also asked about the details of construction.

  This can be found here:
<https://www.lumberjocks.c
om/projects/111682>


           Tom, observed the similarity to a leather braiding fid that 
he uses for sewing books and discusses the shape of the point.
           " The point is actually a highly refined shape, thin enough 
to go between threads but not so thin that it pierces a thread, 
spreading enough to push the threads away from
             each other but not so spread that it jams, and flat to 
reduce friction but not too flat."

I had struggled a bit over the sharpness of the point as well. Careful 
questioning, long in advance, made things easier. It turned out that she 
was happy with the shape of the awful tool she had damaged while 
punching a hole in some leather. However, while this is a handy tool for 
poking holes, mostly she uses it to guide the fabric into the sewing 
machine needle, keeping fingertips out of harms way.


I did post it to the group shortly after completing the project and Jim 
Thompson liked it so much he offered to send me a burnisher / birdcage 
awl set but alas he never got the chance.

Troy
268153 Matt Cooper <MaNoCooper@l...> 2019‑03‑21 Re: Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC
Read the lumberjack article. I really liked it. You do good work.



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S10.


-------- Original message --------
From: Troy Livingston 
Date: 3/19/19 20:26 (GMT-05:00)
To: Old Tools New Server 
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Tool Disposition Abbreviations NIWIG and NTGBITC

Answers a little delayed by a trip to Baltimore.

          Esther asks:
           " What is the dark (blue?) banding on the ferrule?  How did
you do it? "

The blue is heat blued steel. I blued the entire thing and then polished
it away from the areas that I wanted bare.

           Claudio also asked about the details of construction.

  This can be found here:
<https://www.lumberjocks.c
om/projects/111682>


           Tom, observed the similarity to a leather braiding fid that
he uses for sewing books and discusses the shape of the point.
           " The point is actually a highly refined shape, thin enough
to go between threads but not so thin that it pierces a thread,
spreading enough to push the threads away from
             each other but not so spread that it jams, and flat to
reduce friction but not too flat."

I had struggled a bit over the sharpness of the point as well. Careful
questioning, long in advance, made things easier. It turned out that she
was happy with the shape of the awful tool she had damaged while
punching a hole in some leather. However, while this is a handy tool for
poking holes, mostly she uses it to guide the fabric into the sewing
machine needle, keeping fingertips out of harms way.


I did post it to the group shortly after completing the project and Jim
Thompson liked it so much he offered to send me a burnisher / birdcage
awl set but alas he never got the chance.

Troy



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