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267815 Timothy J Pendleton <tpendleton@g...> 2019‑02‑09 Re: OldTools] Test
Ah, yes...how many times have we seen this same issue?  A saw emerges from the
factory with great fanfare; but the nib never quite rises to its full potential?
:)

The shape of the handle near the lower fastening point might be reworked in a
Minion motif...

Tim

Bill Ghio  wrote:
267816 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2019‑02‑09 Re: OldTools] Test
Tim wrote:

> “The shape of the handle near the lower fastening point might be reworked in a
Minion motif”

Tim just invented the millennial successor to the Panther Head Saw! “The
Inverted Minion Head Saw”

Oh! The humanity !

Dried out handle?  Clean it very thoroughly and then saturate with very thin
epoxy like Gougeon (sp.?) Brothers.  (This may start a good exchange of ideas
about reinforcing dried-out wood.)

John R.
267817 Spike Cornelius <spikethebike@c...> 2019‑02‑09 Re: OldTools] Test
Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2019, at 9:24 AM, John Ruth wrote:
>   Snippity doo dah:

> Dried out handle?  Clean it very thoroughly and then saturate with very thin
epoxy like Gougeon (sp.?) Brothers.  (This may start a good exchange of ideas
about reinforcing dried-out wood

 Jamestown Distributors has a product called Rot Fix by System 3, I believe,
that is nice for this.
 Best, Spike
267818 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2019‑02‑09 Re: OldTools] Test
Spike

This is a copy of the original Git-Rot that has been around for 30 years.  It is
a very thin epoxy that takes about 24 hours to kick.  You drill a series of 1/4”
holes (say in a windowsill) and pour it in, then wait 15 minutes for it soak
into the end grain exposed by drilling the hole, then fill it up again, and
again, and again.  I have had it take 12 hours of filling before it slows down
enough to stop.  I wonder if soaking a piece in a pan of it would get it to
absorb - might work on something with as much end grain as a saw handle

Ed
267819 Norm Wood <normw013@f...> 2019‑02‑09 Re: OldTools] Test
Ed and all,

I've never noticed (probably not paying enough attention, or the amounts
were too small) heat given off by curing epoxy, but be cautious of
potential side effects.  From West System's epoxy chemistry page:

"Several inches of mixed epoxy in a confined mass (such as a mixing cup)
will generate enough heat to melt a plastic cup, burn your skin or
ignite combustible materials if left to stand for its full pot life."

Adding zilch to the problem of repairing a handle,

Norm
267820 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2019‑02‑09 Re: OldTools] Test
GG

Building boats in the late 70’s, we used a lot of WEST System epoxy - it came
out about 1976 IIRC. One day we mixed a gallon to spread on fiberglass cloth but
had a delay in the setup and the whole gallon went up in flames.  Had to use
2X4’s to push it out of the open-sided boat shed.

Fun times

Ed
267828 Bill Webber <ol2lrus@v...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
Hey lonesome galoots, check out the latest Lee Valley 40-years Early 
Winter catalog!  My favorite is the Bridge City Chopstick Master Kit. 
Yours for only $286.  Chopstick blanks, 10 for $36.50.

Actually, this is real.  I thought I'd pulled a VanWinkle and it was 
April Fool's day already.

Bill W.
Nottingham, PA
Woodworkers visit me at http://bi
llwebber.galootcentral.com/
267829 Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
Hi

Apparently this is a real hobby of sorts

https://www.youtube.com/wa
tch?v=4zJT4sLjaso

Hard to believe. Bridge City is amazing.

On 2019-02-12 06:55, Bill Webber wrote:
> Hey lonesome galoots, check out the latest Lee Valley 40-years Early 
> Winter catalog!  My favorite is the Bridge City Chopstick Master Kit. 
> Yours for only $286.  Chopstick blanks, 10 for $36.50.

Brent
-- 
Brent Beach
Snowed in!! in
Victoria, BC, Canada
267830 galoot@l... 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
And Jarrod SXtone uses making chopsticks as a hand carving knife 
exercise (try it sometime!)

Esther

Quoting Bill Webber :
267832 "Stager, Scott P." <StagerS@m...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
I made a couple of pair from Osage Orange at the KC Renn fest last year using
only a Sloyd style knife and spokeshaves.  In hand, not on shave pony.

Used off splinters from our boyers working down large splits for bows.   Came
out real funky looking - a bit curved and twisted, but quite servicable

—Scott

On Feb 12, 2019, at 10:07 AM, galoot@l...<mailto:ga
loot@l...> wrote:

And Jarrod SXtone uses making chopsticks as a hand carving knife exercise (try
it sometime!)


---------------------------------------------------
Scott Stager
Columbia MO
573-474-5955 home
573-424-4764 cell
stagers@m...<mailto:stagers@m...>
267833 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
The amazing thing is that people pay lots of money for these things.  

I couldn’t though

1) my religion forbids it

2) my galoot upbringing says that a sharp plane can be made from any of the
stones at hand, and if I were to be so picky, a Brent Beach (c) jig

3) my library of ‘old fashioned’ ideas says that a v grooved sticking board will
yield the same result at the cost of repurposing some scrap

4) Before I knew any of the above, I just made a few sets from left over parana
pine (it wasn’t banned then) and they’re mostly still going.

5) Using a cross grain timber for a chopstick seems to invite permanent ingress
of bug harbouring fluids.

6) the yorkshireman is happy to regard chopsticks, when correctly made from
bamboo slivers, as the ultimate in eco-friendly eating irons.


I admire bridge tools though.  I’d never have faith that there were enough
idjuts to buy such stuff. Must come from generations of that american snake oil
sales training that seemed to be a tradition of the West.


Richard Wilson
Northern Galoot.
267835 Chuck Taylor 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
Richard The Yorkshireman wrote, concerning Bridge City Tools new $286 Chopstick
Master Kit:

====snip====
The amazing thing is that people pay lots of money for these things.  

I couldn’t though

[other reasons snipped]

I admire bridge tools though.  I’d never have faith that there were enough
idjuts to buy such stuff. Must come from generations of that american snake oil
sales training that seemed to be a tradition of the West.
====unsnip====

My theory is that the BCTO (Bridge City Tool Owners) clan are cousins of the
YBIFPO clan.

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
snowed in north of Seattle
267837 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
Snip

"Several inches of mixed epoxy in a confined mass (such as a mixing cup)
will generate enough heat to melt a plastic cup, burn your skin or ignite
combustible materials if left to stand for its full pot life."

END SNIP

Yes, and getting the mix wrong on the direction of too much hardener makes
it worse.  A friend of mine was working with epoxy on dummies in a high end
shop window.  It was hardening too slowly for his patience, so he boosted
the amount of hardener.  The result was fire and billowing smoke from the
pot.

J
267838 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
YBIFPO??

Don

On 2019-02-12 11:31 a.m., Chuck Taylor via OldTools wrote:
> Richard The Yorkshireman wrote, concerning Bridge City Tools new $286
Chopstick Master Kit:
>
> ====snip====
> The amazing thing is that people pay lots of money for these things.
>
> I couldn’t though
>
> [other reasons snipped]
>
> I admire bridge tools though.  I’d never have faith that there were enough
idjuts to buy such stuff. Must come from generations of that american snake oil
sales training that seemed to be a tradition of the West.
> ====unsnip====
>
> My theory is that the BCTO (Bridge City Tool Owners) clan are cousins of the
YBIFPO clan.
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck Taylor
> snowed in north of Seattle
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
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>
> To change your subscription options:
> > https:/
/oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
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rchive/faq.html
>
> > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.
com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...


-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must have
something to be said on both sides,
  and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.

Being offended doesn't make you right.
267840 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
SNIP:

The amazing thing is that people pay lots of money for these things.  

I couldn’t though

END SNIP

Well, mark me down as a reformed buyer.  Years ago, when Bridge City was new, I
was a young man with no room for a shop in the small house we were crammed into
while I went to graduate school.  But I dreamed about a shop and the lovely
things I'd make.  Along came the Bridge City catalogues.  The measuring
instruments were things of beauty.  They helped me dream.  I bought several new
and a few used.  Still have them.

Here's the thing: some of them are fine instruments still, but some have just
not stood the test of long use.  The early wood and brass mortising scribes  and
depth gauges are just not the best for a lifetime of work.  Some other items, by
contrast, are still as nice as they were when purchased.  Uneven, is the only
way to describe the experience.  Also, in the old days with the original Bridge
City, they offered an unconditional lifetime warranty to repair and recalibrate,
no matter what.  Apparently they got into financial trouble and sold the name
and assets to a newco for a fresh start.  At that time, the warranty changed to
a much more limited form.  I think it has happened again.   I just looked at
their web site.  They have moved to California and are owned by something called
"Harvey Industries."  They now refer so-called "legacy tools," to a third party
company for repair and refurbishment.  So, no warranty for legacy tools.  That
is about as limited as it gets.

Still, as to the relative foolishness of the purchase; I am ambivalent.  I have
not bought any for at least 20 years.  But on the other hand, I admire Norris
Infill planes and in the unlikely event that  I had the cashto spare  when I saw
one, might be tempted to buy it.  Is that any more practical?  Would it really
be materially better than my well-fettled Stanleys and Sargents?

Reaching far back in memory, but it seems to me that founder, John Economaki,
was once a student of James Krenov's.  Krenov recommend that he go into tool
design and manufacture.  That's a pretty good recommendation.  He appears to be
designing tools still for the new California company.

Cheers!

Joe
267843 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
I think he meant

FOYBIPO

Fraternal Order of Yuppie Bastard Infill Plane Owners, which appears in the
archives

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:24 AM Don Schwartz  wrote:

>
> YBIFPO??
>
> Don
>
> On 2019-02-12 11:31 a.m., Chuck Taylor via OldTools wrote:
> > Richard The Yorkshireman wrote, concerning Bridge City Tools new $286
> Chopstick Master Kit:
> >
> > ====snip====
> > The amazing thing is that people pay lots of money for these things.
> >
> > I couldn’t though
> >
> > [other reasons snipped]
> >
> > I admire bridge tools though.  I’d never have faith that there were
> enough idjuts to buy such stuff. Must come from generations of that
> american snake oil sales training that seemed to be a tradition of the West.
> > ====unsnip====
> >
> > My theory is that the BCTO (Bridge City Tool Owners) clan are cousins of
> the YBIFPO clan.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chuck Taylor
> > snowed in north of Seattle
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> >
> > To change your subscription options:
> > > https
://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >
> > To read the FAQ:
> > > https://swingleydev.com
/archive/faq.html
> >
> > > OldTools archive: https://swingleyde
v.com/ot/
> >
> > OldTools@s...
>
>
> --
> A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe
>
> A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must
> have something to be said on both sides,
>   and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
> Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.
>
> Being offended doesn't make you right.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> > https:/
/oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> > https://swingleydev.com/a
rchive/faq.html
>
> > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.
com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...



-- 
Kirk Eppler
Principal Engineer
PP&TD
eppler.kirk@g...
650 225-3911
267845 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
On 12 Feb 2019, at 19:34, Joseph Sullivan  wrote:
> 
good stuff snipped

> But on the other hand, I admire Norris Infill planes and in the unlikely event
that  I had the cashto spare  when I saw one, might be tempted to buy it.  Is
that any more practical?  Would it really be materially better than my well-
fettled Stanleys and Sargents?
> 
more stuff snipped..

> Cheers!
> 
> Joe

Ah The Legendary Mr Norris.  
Seeing as he worked this side of the Atlantic, I feel obliged to do my party
piece and point out that his planes were being made here to work ‘exotic’
timbers at a time when the US was in need of masses of Stanley planes to work
all that nice clean softwood you were busy cutting down.  The double threaded
adjustment is wonderfully fine.  It’s dual use for slewing the blade and
advancing it is slightly mixed blessing, in that whilst adjusting one, you may
have an unwanted adjustment in the other setting.  However, their heavy blade
and (sometimes) steeper pitch, once set up for work on your mahogany or oak or
whatever, are a joy to use.  Some of that is in the tote and knob design of
course, and I keep wondering whether to experiment by fitting a square knob to a
Bailey pattern body.   That’s one item which is way down the list though - and
why bother anyway?

So to end this ramble - Now I’ve used a Norris, I wouoldn’t bother to buy one -
Bailey pattern planes with a good heavy blade will do the same job.  A
worthwhile mod is to add lead to the body, around the knob, and alongside the
tote mount.  Or, in my case, use a Calvert Stevens CS88  (heavyweight smoothing
plane, Jeff)  all the weight you can use, with a Norris adjuster and thicker
tote with modern engineering standards.  (modern last century that is)


Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman galoot, in Northumberland. 
- and is there such a thing as too many CS88’s?
267846 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2019‑02‑12 Re: OldTools] Test
Edited snip re Norris Planes

Seeing as he worked this side of the Atlantic, I feel obliged to do my party
piece and point out that his planes were being made here to work ‘exotic’
timbers at a time when the US was in need of masses of Stanley planes to work
all that nice clean softwood you were busy cutting down.  So to end this ramble
- ...Now I’ve used a Norris, I wouoldn’t bother to buy one - Bailey pattern
planes with a good heavy blade will do the same job

End snip

 We used a tremendous amount of oak, too, and also hickory and walnut.  Still
do.  My Stanleys and Sargents handle all of that well.

Your last point seems to be the operative one.  Same with me and Bridge City,
lovely though the tools are.  Others will do as well for most purposes, better
for some.  As I said to Cal Meier in a private exchange a couple of hours ago,
when I was buying, I was -- against all good sense -- a dead broke graduate
student with no shop and a lot of dreams.  Now that I have a shop and have had
for decades, I no longer feel the pull of the luxury tool to fulfil part of my
fantasy.  I've used them; now I use other tools to get the result.

Cheers!

Joe
267847 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑02‑13 Re: OldTools] Test
On 2019-02-12 4:25 p.m., yorkshireman@y... wrote:
> A worthwhile mod is to add lead to the body, around the knob, and alongside
the tote mount.

Be nice to see a picture, if you have one like that.

Don

-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must have
something to be said on both sides,
  and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.

Being offended doesn't make you right.
267848 Chuck Taylor 2019‑02‑13 Re: OldTools] Test
Thanks, Kirk. That is indeed what I meant. I mis-remembered the acronym. There's
a link to the FAQ at the end of each OldTools message. Great reading. I shoulda
double-checked before posting. Pass the spittoon!

Cheers,
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 1:30:55 PM PST, Kirk Eppler 
wrote:

I think he meant

FOYBIPO

Fraternal Order of Yuppie Bastard Infill Plane Owners, which appears in the
archives

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:24 AM Don Schwartz  wrote:

>
> YBIFPO??
>
> Don
>
> On 2019-02-12 11:31 a.m., Chuck Taylor via OldTools wrote:
...
> > My theory is that the BCTO (Bridge City Tool Owners) clan are cousins of
> > the YBIFPO clan.
....
267849 "Adam R. Maxwell via OldTools" <oldtools@s...> 2019‑02‑13 Re: OldTools] Test
> On Feb 12, 2019, at 11:34 , Joseph Sullivan  wrote:
> 
> Also, in the old days with the original Bridge City, they offered an
unconditional lifetime warranty to repair and recalibrate, no matter what.
Apparently they got into financial trouble and sold the name and assets to a
newco for a fresh start.  At that time, the warranty changed to a much more
limited form.  I think it has happened again.   I just looked at their web site.
They have moved to California and are owned by something called "Harvey
Industries."

Just seeing "Bridge City" reminded me of a decade ago when I was in my
acquisition phase; Economaki's tools were a thing on blogs and in woodworking
magazines, as I recall. Although they were nothing I would use (or could
afford), they were creative and new: not new like L-N redoing a Stanley design
in bronze or Karl Holtey making a Norris to aircraft-turbine standards, but like
Sydney Opera House defying-laws-of-physics craziness. I respect that
imagination, because I don't have it.

From LV's page, it looks like "Harvey Industries" is a China-based manufacturer,
and Economaki is around as a consultant and QC guy, at least in the short term.

http://www.leeva
lley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?page=77205

Obligatory OT content: I dusted off and used a M-F #2 (with the railroad car
wheel), a Yankee #41, a Spofford brace, and a couple of bitstock Forstners all
in the last 24 hours. It felt good.

Adam
still arranging a new shop after a year in Benton City, WA
267850 Robert Brazile <r.brazile@g...> 2019‑02‑13 Re: OldTools] Test
>
> YBIFPO??
>

Well, Paddy had it as FOYBIPO, which I assume where that was going.

Robert, long-time member, no longer Y.
267851 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2019‑02‑13 Re: OldTools] Test
Don said…

> Be nice to see a picture, if you have one like that.
> 
> Don 


and THAT made me turn out my copy of Kingshott, which is where I imagined there
was a photo, but no, he only shows Norris like builds using of course, the
square knob.  So I take out my files of cuttings, and begin leafing through (one
of those jobs I promised when I gave up the day job - catalogue the files -  and
much later, much later, after all kinds of snippets of useful information,
sketches, published drawings, working drawings by someone making an X04, all
kinds of metal plane making, and so much inspirational stuff about furniture. ..
well, you get the idea.

In the last place I look, I discover the photo I remember, on an article by John
Brown,  I’ve put some pics here

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c9f873o0nwn544c/AAANRelsjGh16bzlM6fvMV-Da?dl=0 


If the link works that is.  


We were talking about weighty a Bailey - just add metal within the stuffing -
the photos don’t show it, but  we can all  do it.   Casting some lead into the
body would work, or leave a void in the stuffing and fill it with lead shot with
a touch of glue to keep it together - or whatever you fancy.


I seem to have a list of about 25 items that never gets short enough to sneak
one of these projects into, else I’d have a go.



Richard Wilson
half a morning gone, but pleased to have a trip back through the press cuttings
files - so many of the authors gone by the wayside now, Ryecotewood  college,
all vanished..
267854 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2019‑02‑13 Re: OldTools] Test
Thanks Kirk - I’ve fixed that.  

None of this images  nonsense when we all had 300 baud modems.. 

R
267863 Thomas Conroy 2019‑02‑15 Re: OldTools] Test
Richard Wilson wrote: "However, their heavy blade and (sometimes) steeper pitch,
once set up for work on your mahogany or oak or whatever, are a joy to use.
Some of that is in the tote and knob design of course, and I keep wondering
whether to experiment by fitting a square knob to a Bailey pattern body. "


I did this some years ago, with a Type 15 #3 that had the most ghastly
replacement handles I have ever seen. I used walnut for a square front grip with
deep grooves around it, but I never got around to replacing the rear grip. I
like the comfort of the front bun, since I like to get my weight over the plane
and push downward, and I think it looks good; but walnut didn't add much weight
to a plane that isn't all that heavy to start with. This is the #3 I would use
when I use one, since my conventional Type 11 #3 has a trashed sole; someday I
have to get around to replacing that grotesque amateurish oak tote. But over the
years I shifted gradually to block planes, wooden smoothers, and much bigger
Stanleys.  At this point my go-to for a final finish, if my planes were sharp
and my bench clear (yeah, sure!) would probably be a #6. In practice I use
whichever block plane was sharpened recently.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley

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