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267339 Brian Welch <brian.w.welch@g...> 2018‑12‑14 Re: Buck Bros. Made in England??
On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 10:35 AM Charles Driggs wrote:

>
> I have a couple dozen Buck carving gouges, including perhaps three marked
> “C Buck  England”  and another two or three marked “Buck England”.  The
> rest are marked “Buck Brothers”.  I had noticed that the English -made
> tools are much more in the style of Herring and Addis gouges than those
> marked with the “Brothers” stamp.  The latter are less relieved in the
> shank, thus less able to operate in tight spaces.
>
> I suspected all along that the England stamped tools were all Charles Buck
> output if only because of the fundamentally similar shape and style common
> to the best carving tools produced there.  Charles Buck probably didn’t
> move his business very often, but his toolmakers may have apprenticed with
> and worked for several different toolmaking operations in their lifetimes.


All of the brothers Buck (John, Charles and Richard T, aka R.T.) were born
in England and did their apprenticeships there and came to the US when the
were around 20. They definitely had close family connections to England and
returned there fairly often as far as I can tell.

An 1874 article on Buck Bros. in Manufacturer and Builder mentions that
"Quite a number of Englishmen are employed, expressly imported for special
kinds of work." Also, up until at least 1900 both Charles Buck and Buck
Bros. claim to use the best English steel for their tools.

Charles Buck broke off from his brother RT in 1872 to form the Charles Buck
Edge Tool Company. R.T. died in 1893 and his son-in-law, William Proctor,
who had long worked for Buck Bros. took over. Proctor was himself born in
Sheffield. So there was definitely a strong connection to Sheffield.

BUT, I don't think that any Buck Bros. or Charles Buck tools were
manufactured in England during their lifetime. That same 1874 article on
Buck Bros. in Manufacturer and Builder contains the following section:

     "The works have from the beginning been under the personal supervision
of Mr. R.T. Buck, who sees that the material and workmanship are of the
best, and the important feature of the temper is carefully attended to,
what all mechanics know how to appreciate. Also that the goods are properly
shipped, by which precaution none have ever been lost, or complaints made;
while the late panic has exceptionally not affected the operation of this
concern.
     One of the firm was in England last summer, more on a vacation than
for any business purpose, yet with his eyes open to see and learn what kind
of tools were in the market. He took a few socket firmers as samples with
him, and showed them to some of the most noted London hardware houses. They
admired the tools very much, but said they were too good for their
customers, their socket chisels and gouges being very coarse, clumsy tools,
such as their fathers' used 50 years ago. Mr. John Wilson, who was sent by
the Board of Trade of Sheffield to report on the cutlery and tools at
Vienna, saw the samples, and in his official report says, "I have seen
American  [Buck Bros.] edge tools equal to any in the world." Mr. Buck
visited several of the most famous edge tool factories in Sheffield, and
found little, except to congratulate himself that he was not behind the
best concerns in Sheffield, either for the materials used or for the
workmanship."

Doesn't seem like R.T. would be having someone in England making his tools
when he had a huge beautiful factory built in 1878 with the capacity to
make some of the best tools in the world.

A 1900 Iron Age ad for Charles Buck Edge Tools (
http://brianwelch.galootcentral.com/buck/cb1900ad4.jpg) makes the claim, "I
MAKE A SPECIALTY OF CARVING TOOLS." I don't think Charles Buck when he was
still running the company would pay someone in England to manufacture his
tools or would need to do so. Charles Buck died in 1905, so up until 1905,
I don't think they sold any tools manufactured anywhere other than
Millbury, MA.

The Charles Buck Edge Tool Company continued for another ten years until
1905 when William Proctor/Buck Bros. bought them out and folded them back
into Buck Bros.

So if there were Charles Buck tools manufactured in England, I'm guessing
that would have happened between 1905 and 1915.

At some point there was a fire that destroyed the main part of the Buck
Bros. factory (I haven't found that date yet). If I had to bet, I'm
guessing that would be the cause of outsourcing the production of more
specialized tools.

That's all I've got for now.

Brian

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