Knowing that we have some makers of fine guitars here, I would like to 
ask if it is feasible for one unfamiliar with making the instruments to 
be able raise the frets.

I have a Yamaha guitar but cannot seem to hold chords properly. I think 
it is because the distance between frets and fret board is not great 
enough.  I get sounds that are not crisp.

Is this something a neophyte can do or is best left to an expert?  If 
one were to undertake raising them, what tool(s) would be needed?  Is 
there a correct or preferred distance between the edge of frets and the 
fret board?

Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA

Bob,

I'm not a Luthier, but I am a guitar player.   Unless your guitar is pretty
old and has seen a lot of play,  then I'm not sure that raising the frets
would be the best solution.   Unless the guitar has been played a lot over
a long  time,  then the frets are probably not worn down that badly.   My
first thought would be to get the guitar to a good guitar shop and see if
the "action" on the guitar can be adjusted to make the guitar more
"playable".  It's kind of hard to describe what the actin of a guitar is
since they really aren't moving parts,  but it has to do with the height of
the strings above the fretboard,  the angle of the neck and possibly the
height of the bridge of the guitar.   All of these affect how easily the
strings can be fretted and also the intonation of the guitar.  I certainly
would look into this before going to the trouble to raise the frets.

John Holladay
205-229-8484
docholladay0820@g...

At 02:48 PM 5/25/2018, John Holladay wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I'm not a Luthier, but I am a guitar player.   Unless your guitar is pretty
>old and has seen a lot of play,  then I'm not sure that raising the frets
>would be the best solution.   Unless the guitar has been played a lot over
>a long  time,  then the frets are probably not worn down that badly.   My
>first thought would be to get the guitar to a good guitar shop and see if
>the "action" on the guitar can be adjusted to make the guitar more
>"playable".  It's kind of hard to describe what the actin of a guitar is
>since they really aren't moving parts,  but it has to do with the height of
>the strings above the fretboard,  the angle of the neck and possibly the
>height of the bridge of the guitar.   All of these affect how easily the
>strings can be fretted and also the intonation of the guitar.  I certainly
>would look into this before going to the trouble to raise the frets.

  I have no idea when kind of guitar Bob has,
but I'll just mention that on some guitars the height of the bridge 
is adjustable
(often with little "turn screws).   These are more common on electric
(than on acoustic) guitars.

But I certainly agree with John.  It's very unlikely that the problem is
with the height of the frets (or that adjusting the frets would do anything
to address the problems)  And, in any case, as Bob asks in his message
this would be pretty precise surgery.  Not something that a neophyte
luthier should attempt.

Nichael.

Hey Bob---
 you can prove--or disprove---your 'frets too low' theory by poring over each
string---fretting and plucking from bottom fret to top fret.  If you get
consistently clean tones from fretting just ONE string and plucking it, the
problems elsewhere. If you invest this kind of time in looking close, you'll
probably find where the problem actually IS, maybe there, maybe the set of the
neck  maybe the height of the bridge, often the nut needs tweaking. If you're
using 'medium' acoustic strings, try 'light' or 'extralight'---Martin
extralights are heavier than the average electric string, surprisingly.
I've never had a luthier ask for payment to diagnose a problem, btw.  They know
they'll get work from people who keep playing.

                           best of luck with that--gam in OlyWA/USA
How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen

      From: RH 
 To: "oldtools@s..."  
 Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 10:28 AM
 Subject: [OldTools] Guitar Frets
   
Knowing that we have some makers of fine guitars here, I would like to 
ask if it is feasible for one unfamiliar with making the instruments to 
be able raise the frets.

I have a Yamaha guitar but cannot seem to hold chords properly. I think 
it is because the distance between frets and fret board is not great 
enough.  I get sounds that are not crisp.

Is this something a neophyte can do or is best left to an expert?  If 
one were to undertake raising them, what tool(s) would be needed?  Is 
there a correct or preferred distance between the edge of frets and the 
fret board?

Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...

Not a luthier but another player. You can also check the neck bow/truss rod
adjustment yourself:

"Typically, a properly adjusted truss rod will leave a neck with a bit of
forward relief. You can use your strings as a "straight edge" by pushing
them down to both the 1st and 14th frets simultaneously.

"Then the gap between the string and the 6th fret can be observed. A gap
slightly thinner than a business card is about right. From this point, you
can adjust to your own preference."

https://www.taylorguitars.com/support/maintenance/truss-rod-adjustments

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 4:13 PM, gary may via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:

> Hey Bob---
>  you can prove--or disprove---your 'frets too low' theory by poring over
> each string---fretting and plucking from bottom fret to top fret.  If you
> get consistently clean tones from fretting just ONE string and plucking it,
> the problems elsewhere. If you invest this kind of time in looking close,
> you'll probably find where the problem actually IS, maybe there, maybe the
> set of the neck  maybe the height of the bridge, often the nut needs
> tweaking. If you're using 'medium' acoustic strings, try 'light' or
> 'extralight'---Martin extralights are heavier than the average electric
> string, surprisingly.
> I've never had a luthier ask for payment to diagnose a problem, btw.  They
> know they'll get work from people who keep playing.
>
>                            best of luck with that--gam in OlyWA/USA
> How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing
> one cares for none of them!
> Jane Austen
>
>       From: RH 
>  To: "oldtools@s..." 
>  Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 10:28 AM
>  Subject: [OldTools] Guitar Frets
>
> Knowing that we have some makers of fine guitars here, I would like to
> ask if it is feasible for one unfamiliar with making the instruments to
> be able raise the frets.
>
> I have a Yamaha guitar but cannot seem to hold chords properly. I think
> it is because the distance between frets and fret board is not great
> enough.  I get sounds that are not crisp.
>
> Is this something a neophyte can do or is best left to an expert?  If
> one were to undertake raising them, what tool(s) would be needed?  Is
> there a correct or preferred distance between the edge of frets and the
> fret board?
>
> Bob Hutchins
> Temple, TX, USA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...
>



-- 
Steve Jones

"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire."
--Gustave Mahler

On 2018-05-25 2:13 PM, gary may via OldTools wrote:
> om fretting just ONE string and plucking it, the problems elsewhere. If you
invest this kind of time in looking close, you'll probably find where the
problem actually IS, maybe there, maybe the set of the neck  maybe the height of
the bridge, often the nut needs tweaking. If you're using 'medium' acoustic
strings, try 'light' or 'extralight'---Martin extralights are heavier than the
average electric string, surprisingly.

Also just a player.

I have seen more than one guitar 'tweaked' by an amateur who filed the 
slots on the nut or adjusted the bridge in some way to 'improve the 
action' of a guitar. That's where I'd look first for an issue. How high 
above the fingerboard are the frets? Do they look worn, flattened or 
misshapen from usage? Does the fretboard show signs of heavy wear? Some 
players with strong hands , and those who play a lot, can wear 
indentations into the fingerboard, like footsteps on stairs!

Don

-- 

“It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli

Bob
Frets being too low is a very uncommon problem.  The only way they could get
that way is if the board warped and someone flattened the tops of the frets to
make them level, and that would result in some being tall and some not-so-tall.
I guess you can never discount ignorance as an explanation for things like this,
too.

First thing to do is to set a 12” metal straight edge from the top of the first
fret down the board and the other end will be on about fret 13 or so.  With a
feeler gauge, you should get about .005 -,010 between fret 6 and the straight
edge.  This is called relief and is essential to getting the notes right.

If this is good, then measure between the top of the 12th fret and the bottom of
the strings at either side - the 2 E strings.  You would like to get about
1/16”+ to 18” or so.  Too low and the strings are too close to the board.

You can also use your feeler gauges to see how tall the frets are by laying then
between frets till you find a combination that equals the height of the fret.-
you would like to have a minimum of about .025 and could be as high as .045 -
measure a couple

Take these 3 measurements and get back to me.

Ed Minch

Yah you can raise them
   Visit Constantines or Stu mac
You can buy fretting of different dimensions to get a higher fret. 
re-fretting  is a dicey proposition  sometimes the old frets won't come 
out without a splinter or two.
It's also possible that your guitar was modified by a wanna be hot dog 
who believed he could file or stone the frets to make a hot rod guitar 
and play like a master right out of the gate DAMHIKT

Oh I didn't ask.  How long you been playing?   How long on this 
instrument? Yamaha necks are notorious for being evil bitches.
IT is often the  wrongheaded path of the newbie to think that  some 
modification will make the difference when it's really just a matter of 
time dedication and effort.

Someone needs to see this guitar, at least good pictures.

   I operate, through no fault or intention of my own, the Mid Klamath 
instrument hospital.
   Didn't mean to. I never said anything or wanted the job.
  But no one else does it, so sooner or later every old junker in the 
valley shows up at my door. Usually attached to a young person with the 
BIG WEEPY EYES.

   Frets don't raise, unless they are coming all the way out. Its also 
super rare that they become worn to the point they have to be taken out.
  Not impossible I have seen frets far far gone. But its really rare.
Usually its something else.
   I have seen a few frets come loose and actually raise up. This is 
bad. You have to press/glue them back down when this happens.

  First thing to do is hold the instrument up and sight down the neck. 
Hold it up, with the neck level with your eye, and sight down it. The 
human eye is remarkably perceptive at this. If there is significant 
warpage you'll see it at a glance. You can do it from either end but 
usually from the bottom is the best view.
   Major warpage requires big work and occasionally is bad enough that 
the instrument is lost for any other purpose than hanging on the wall as 
decoration.

  If it looks ok, then its something else.

How high are the strings at the first fret? The last fret?
  This is the action and it can be adjusted at either end.

  With acoustic guitars people sometimes file the nut slots (the nut is 
the bridge at the top near the tuners) too much, looking to improve the 
action.
   Beginners often start here when really, adjusting the bridge saddle 
at the bottom often yields better results.

  If the nut is filed too low, knock it off and use a piece of thick 
paper or very thin veneer under it when you glue it back on. Glue hardly 
sticks to bone or plastic anyway, so its easy to knock them off 
harmlessly with a wood block and a hammer.

  Its possible the nut slots are not deep enough but this is less 
likely. If they really are too shallow you first deepen them and then 
"wallow" out the backside of the slot facing the tuners.
      ( A deep narrow nut slot is bad, and will give you tuning woes. 
You need a little clearance. )

  The bridge saddle is more often reason for complaint. They sell new 
guitars with very tall bridge saddles. Especially the inexpensive ones. 
In case someone wants to play slide guitar is the only reason that ever 
occurred to me.  The bridge saddle is seldom glued in so it wiggles 
right out. Take it out and mark it with a sharpie across the bottom on 
one side.
  Depending on how atrociously high the action is, about 1/16" to start. 
One some new guitars with super high action you can do 1/8" right off 
the bat.
     Use a good sharp file or something and take that line off.
  Leave the top of the saddle alone.

Sometimes a slight warpage that doesn't show so much will interfere with 
several notes. With acoustic guitars the 14th fret (or 12th in an 
antique), where the neck joins the body? Can sometimes have a problem. 
Necks are under tension from truss rods.
  I keep 2 short straight edges. These are just long enough to cover 3 
frets only.
The long one does the first 10 or 12 frets and the short one does the 
rest. All you want to cover are 3 frets at a time. Use them to "rock the 
frets in".
Check each set that it doesn't rock at all.
But if you find one, mark the fret with a sharpie.
   A friend brought an expensive antique Gibson and I had to lower 2 
frets to put everything right again. One was high all the way across and 
the other only the bass notes

   Well anyway, its kind of hard to type everything out
   But any guitar mechanic will find your problem quickly.
If they want a lot of money find another mechanic or get back to me and 
we'll work it out
yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html