OldTools Archive
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265845 | Chuck Taylor | 2018‑05‑17 | Use of zig zag rules |
Esteemed Gentle Galoots, Bill Webber's thread about zig zag rules raised a question for me: Does anybody actually use a zig zag rule? For what application? I have several zig zag rules but most times find myself reaching for a tape measure instead. Or a 2-foot folding rule. Chuck Taylor north of Seattle |
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265846 | Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: > Esteemed Gentle Galoots, > > Bill Webber's thread about zig zag rules raised a question for me: Does > anybody actually use a zig zag rule? For what application? > When traveling in Europe, all the craftsman I see are using them. We brought in a Swedish firm for a startup, and that's all they used. I have bought a couple of nice metric plastic ones for when I don't want to get wood dirty, like water depth. I personally use my zigzag with the little extension thingie for inside measurements, especially for fitting molding. -- Kirk Eppler in HMB, CA, where 2 horned smoothers, a T&G pair, and a chisel got cleaned up and returned to service. |
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265847 | Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
Chuck, GGs I've tried using a zig zag rule. I don't get the attraction. You can open and retract a tape measure 4 or 5 times in the time it takes to open a zig zag rule once. I have electrician friend who swears by his zig zag rule, but he is a European. Not that there's anything wrong with being a European. Just a statement of fact. Mick Dowling 42nd year of my carpentry apprenticeship. Really getting the hang of it. On 17/5/18, 2:27 pm, "oldtools@s..." |
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265848 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I ‘rediscovered ‘ a couple of zig-zag rules in a backup tool chest. I brought them home from Sweden. Now I usually have the nicer (wooden) one of the pair in the pocket of my trousers or shorts. Special pockets need the correct tools in them of course. Perhaps we should have a thread about trousers. ? Richard Wilson Yorkshumbrian Galoot, currently in a warm and sunny Alnwick |
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265849 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
GG’s: Electricians like, or liked, the fact that zig-zag rules don’t conduct electricity. I say “liked,” because all the electricians in my family have passed on. When I was a boy, among the few hand tools which my father, a 55-year IBEW electrician, did not want me to touch were his folding rules. Years after he retired, I encountered and bought a Lufkin aluminum folding rule. I showed this to Pop, saying that it seemed much less fragile than the wooden ones. His reaction was “I would not use that; it conducts!” Another folding rule anecdote from my late older brother: He said if he needed a few moments to think about something, but had to look busy, he’d hold his rule with a few sections unfolded and look at the ceiling as if he were planning out an installation. This gave him a few uninterrupted moments for those inevitable times when you have to think something through. John R. Sent from my iPhone |
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265850 | Thomas Fink | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I use mine all the time. For short measurements, i have a couple of very nice steel rulers, but the folders make it easy to measure with one hand, or lay the work against the ruler. Tom Fink |
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265851 | Gary Maze <emmasdaddy45@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I just finished part 2 of a 3 part blacksmithing class, and the instructor uses a Lufkin aluminum zig-zag rule, because he is constantly measuring hot metal and a tape measure would scorch and/or burn. As he reminds us everytime someone gets burned, "assume everything is hot in a blacksmiths shop". I do use my grandpa's Lufkin X46X (the one with extensions on each end) quite a bit, especially when measuring depth or inside dimensions. Gary Maze currently building a forge in the backyard in prep for the next blacksmith class On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:52 AM, Thomas Fink via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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265853 | james rich <jameslrich3@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
* use them all the time ,mostly for inside measurements like drawers or web framing for chests of drawers ect.* *have a few of my great grandfathers tools and seems like I look for excuses to use them sometimes. they just feel rite.* On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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265854 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
nice, gary! tell us about the forge build. i use a starrett steel hook rule for measuring under a foot, and a folding steel rule (5 or 6', i can't recall) from Eppler for longer things. aside from it not scorching, i think i'd rather steel than aluminum because it doesn't conduct as quickly. for non-hot applications i use a lufkin wooden rule with extensions, and prefer it for repetitive, more accurate measurements than my tape measure. bill felton, ca |
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265858 | Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I find zigzags really useful because you can take a measurement and transfer directly to the piece to be cut without having to remember the actual dimension - a considerable advantage considering my memory. Also, they are much better for inside measurements than a tape which makes them particularly good for trim work. My favorite is a Starrett with the extension. Ken On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 12:27 AM Chuck Taylor via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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265861 | Kermit Perlmutter <kermit@k...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
This reminded me of a great use for out of square or surplus steel framing squares I learned from a smith. He would cut one leg away leaving just a bit of a hook to use when measuring hot stuff. Super handy re-use. |
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265862 | CheekyGeek <cheekygeek@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I agree with Ken, but we have to remember that there are Zig-Zag rules with and without the Narrow brass 6” slide-out rule. It is those with THAT feature that I find particularly useful. I've got a Stanley Sweetheart aluminum one around somewhere that lacks that feature. The other thing I have not seen mentioned yet, is that the longer ones were supposed to allow you to measure something out away from you, where a metal tape measure would break and drop. This may be less true with some rules today (YMMV). I seem to also recall seeing my dad use one as a square (folding it into a right triangle). Not sure if I'm remembering that properly or how he did it. By my calculations, a right triangle with a 4:5:6 ratio doesn't translate to a 6' folding rule. Seems like there was a book totally on Folding or Zig Zag rules out there by Astragal Press, but I have no idea if they are still around or what the title might have been. Darren Addy Kearney, NE On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Ken Shepard |
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265863 | curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
GeekyCheeks wrote: > I seem to also recall seeing my dad use one as a square (folding it into a > right triangle). Not sure if I'm remembering that properly or how he did > it. By my calculations, a right triangle with a 4:5:6 ratio doesn't > translate to a 6' folding rule. It translates just fine if the segments are 4.8 inches long, but that won't get you your right angle. You might be thinking of a 3:4:5 triangle, which gives you that right angle AND fits on a 6 foot rule with 6 inch segments. |
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265864 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
GG's: 1) Astragal Press is definitely still around, now a division of Chester Book Co. but still reachable at their old URL www.astragalpress.com">www.astragalpress.com<http://www.astragalpress.com">http://www.astragalpress.com>. I just received their latest catalog in the mail (No relationship except as a completely satisfied customer.) 2) Kermit's mention of cutting up a bent, distorted, or otherwise undesirable framing square into a "hook rule" is the "gem of the day" on this Porch. What a great idea! Thank you for that idea, Kermit! I have two handy straight edges that a previous owner made by cutting a framing square. Maybe I should weld hooks to them, then file them straight again. John Ruth ________________________________ From: OldTools |
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265865 | CheekyGeek <cheekygeek@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
DOH! And I got an "A" in Geometry too, but it was (too) many moons ago. :) On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:19 PM, curt seeliger |
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265866 | Kermit Perlmutter <kermit@k...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
Got to give that thanks to James Austin not me. Great guy and a great smith. You can take a look at his work at http://forgedaxes.com.">http://forgedaxes.com. He just started a study on Norwegian carpenter’s axes which may be of interest to some porch members ( see http://forgedaxes.com/?page_id= 152) |
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265867 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2018‑05‑17 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
jim *is* a great guy, and makes killer mead, too. as well done as his axes and his other forgings (i love the way he does his norse anvils). kermit, where are you located? best, bill felton, ca On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Kermit Perlmutter |
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265869 | Bruce Zenge <brucensherry@g...> | 2018‑05‑18 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I don't anymore due to not doing any woodwork. But when I was able to, the zig zag rules were not only useful, but repeatedly more accurate. So, yes, I definitely did use my zig zag rules. Bruce Z. Des Moines, IA On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:27 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools |
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265872 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑05‑19 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I have three identical Lufkin red-end zig zigs - checked against each other for consistency - and I use them all the time in the shop Ed Minch |
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265873 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑05‑19 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
All the majors made one that was inside read, so the number 1 was up when opened he first leaf and set it on your work. You could get it with both end having the number 1 inside, or with both of the number 1 a the same end, one inside and one outside. I buy all of the inside reads I find and give them to a freind who uses hem. Ed Minch |
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265874 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2018‑05‑19 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
Wow guys, thanks I have always had zig zag rules around. The engineering intrigues me. I like how they look and work and feel. I have great ones, and so so ones around. I always pick up the really good condition, unusual patterns when I see them. But just never really used them all that much. Reading all of your experiences makes me want to get some out into more common "most used tools" circulation, and really give them an honest chance. Thanks for this. Maybe they'll change my life. Hope they do There's never been anyplace like our porch. yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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265875 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2018‑05‑19 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
I learned a trick in the early 70’s from an old carpenter I was fortunate enough to work under for over a year - Joe Shingle, born in 1900 He had a way of opening his 6 foot zig zag where he just spread his arms and it was fully open in 1/2 a second. I learned it and still use it. When you get good at it, you can open the rule 1/2 way or 1/4 the way almost instantly. Wish I knew how to take a movie. Ed Minch |
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265876 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2018‑05‑19 | Re: Use of zig zag rules |
On 2018-05-19 7:28 AM, Ed Minch wrote: > I learned a trick in the early 70’s from an old carpenter I was fortunate enough to work under for over a year - Joe Shingle, born in 1900 > > He had a way of opening his 6 foot zig zag where he just spread his arms and it was fully open in 1/2 a second. I learned it and still use it. When you get good at it, you can open the rule 1/2 way or 1/4 the way almost instantly. Wish I knew how to take a movie. > I thought someone had posted a video of this some time ago, but couldn't find one when I looked the other day. Is there a Googlemeister in the house? I'm just an apprenctice. Don -- “It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.” “The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli |
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