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265845 Chuck Taylor 2018‑05‑17 Use of zig zag rules
Esteemed Gentle Galoots,

Bill Webber's thread about zig zag rules raised a question for me:  Does anybody
actually use a zig zag rule? For what application?

I have several zig zag rules but most times find myself reaching for a tape
measure instead. Or a 2-foot folding rule.

Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle
265846 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:

> Esteemed Gentle Galoots,
>
> Bill Webber's thread about zig zag rules raised a question for me:  Does
> anybody actually use a zig zag rule? For what application?
>

When traveling in Europe, all the craftsman I see are using them.  We
brought in a Swedish firm for a startup, and that's all they used.  I have
bought a couple of nice metric plastic ones for when I don't want to get
wood dirty, like water depth.

I personally use my zigzag with the little extension thingie for inside
measurements, especially for fitting molding.


-- 
Kirk Eppler in HMB, CA, where 2 horned smoothers, a T&G pair, and a chisel
got cleaned up and returned to service.
265847 Mick Dowling <spacelysprocket@b...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
Chuck, GGs

I've tried using a zig zag rule. I don't get the attraction.

You can open and retract a tape measure 4 or 5 times in the time it takes to
open a zig zag rule once.

I have electrician friend who swears by his zig zag rule, but he is a
European. Not that there's anything wrong with being a European. Just a
statement of fact.

Mick Dowling
42nd year of my carpentry apprenticeship. Really getting the hang of it.


On 17/5/18, 2:27 pm, "oldtools@s..." 
wrote:

> Esteemed Gentle Galoots,

Bill Webber's thread about zig zag rules raised a
> question for me:  Does anybody actually use a zig zag rule? For what
> application? 

I have several zig zag rules but most times find myself
> reaching for a tape measure instead. Or a 2-foot folding rule.

Chuck
> Taylor
north of 
> Seattle
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
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> tool
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> of
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OldTools@s...
265848 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I ‘rediscovered ‘ a couple of zig-zag rules in a backup tool chest.  I brought
them home from Sweden.  Now I usually have the nicer (wooden) one of the pair in
the pocket of my trousers or shorts.  Special pockets need the correct tools in
them of course.

Perhaps we should have a thread about trousers. ? 


Richard Wilson
Yorkshumbrian Galoot,  currently in a warm and sunny Alnwick
265849 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
GG’s:

Electricians like, or liked, the fact that zig-zag rules don’t conduct
electricity.  I say “liked,” because all the electricians in my family have
passed on.

When I was a boy, among the few hand tools which my father, a 55-year IBEW
electrician, did not want me to touch were his folding rules.

Years after he retired, I encountered and bought a Lufkin aluminum folding rule.
I showed this to Pop, saying that it seemed much less fragile than the wooden
ones. His reaction was “I would not use that; it conducts!”

Another folding rule anecdote from my late older brother: He said if he needed a
few moments to think about something, but had to look busy, he’d hold his rule
with a few sections unfolded and look at the ceiling as if he were planning out
an installation. This gave him a few uninterrupted moments for those inevitable
times when you have to think something through.

John R.

Sent from my iPhone
265850 Thomas Fink 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I use mine all the time.  For short measurements, i have a couple of very nice
steel rulers, but the folders make it easy to measure with one hand, or lay the
work against the ruler.

Tom Fink
265851 Gary Maze <emmasdaddy45@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I just finished part 2 of a 3 part blacksmithing class, and the instructor
uses a Lufkin aluminum zig-zag rule, because he is constantly measuring hot
metal and a tape measure would scorch  and/or burn. As he reminds us
everytime someone gets burned, "assume everything is hot in a blacksmiths
shop".

I do use my grandpa's Lufkin X46X (the one with extensions on each end)
quite a bit, especially when measuring depth or inside dimensions.

Gary Maze

currently building a forge in the backyard in prep for the next blacksmith
class

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:52 AM, Thomas Fink via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
265853 james rich <jameslrich3@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
* use them all the time ,mostly for inside measurements like drawers or web
framing for chests of drawers ect.*
*have a few of my great grandfathers tools and seems like I look for
excuses to use them sometimes. they just feel rite.*

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
265854 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
nice, gary!  tell us about the forge build.

i use a starrett steel hook rule for measuring under a foot, and a folding
steel rule (5 or 6', i can't recall) from Eppler for longer things.  aside
from it not scorching, i think i'd rather steel than aluminum because it
doesn't conduct as quickly.

for non-hot applications i use a lufkin wooden rule with extensions, and
prefer it for repetitive, more accurate measurements than my tape measure.

bill
felton, ca
265858 Ken Shepard <waruba@c...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I find zigzags really useful because you can take a measurement and
transfer directly to the piece to be cut without having to remember the
actual dimension - a considerable advantage considering my memory.  Also,
they are much better for inside measurements than a tape which makes them
particularly good for trim work.  My favorite is a Starrett with the
extension.

Ken

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 12:27 AM Chuck Taylor via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
265861 Kermit Perlmutter <kermit@k...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
This reminded me of a great use for out of square or surplus steel framing
squares I learned from a smith. He would cut one leg away leaving just a bit of
a hook to use when measuring hot stuff. Super handy re-use.
265862 CheekyGeek <cheekygeek@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I agree with Ken, but we have to remember that there are Zig-Zag rules with
and without the Narrow brass 6” slide-out rule. It is those with THAT
feature that I find particularly useful. I've got a Stanley Sweetheart
aluminum one around somewhere that lacks that feature.

The other thing I have not seen mentioned yet, is that the longer ones were
supposed to allow you to measure something out away from you, where a metal
tape measure would break and drop.
This may be less true with some rules today (YMMV).

I seem to also recall seeing my dad use one as a square (folding it into a
right triangle). Not sure if I'm remembering that properly or how he did
it. By my calculations, a right triangle with a 4:5:6 ratio doesn't
translate to a 6' folding rule.
Seems like there was a book totally on Folding or Zig Zag rules out there
by Astragal Press, but I have no idea if they are still around or what the
title might have been.

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Ken Shepard  wrote:

> I find zigzags really useful because you can take a measurement and
> transfer directly to the piece to be cut without having to remember the
> actual dimension - a considerable advantage considering my memory.  Also,
> they are much better for inside measurements than a tape which makes them
> particularly good for trim work.  My favorite is a Starrett with the
> extension.
>
> Ken
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 12:27 AM Chuck Taylor via OldTools <
> oldtools@s...> wrote:
>
> > Esteemed Gentle Galoots,
> >
> > Bill Webber's thread about zig zag rules raised a question for me:  Does
> > anybody actually use a zig zag rule? For what application?
> >
> > I have several zig zag rules but most times find myself reaching for a
> > tape measure instead. Or a 2-foot folding rule.
> >
> > Chuck Taylor
> > north of Seattle
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> >
> > To change your subscription options:
> > > https
://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> >
> > To read the FAQ:
> > > https://swingleydev.com
/archive/faq.html
> >
> > > OldTools archive: https://swingleyde
v.com/ot/
> >
> > OldTools@s...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> > https:/
/oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
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rchive/faq.html
>
> > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.
com/ot/
>
> OldTools@s...
>



-- 

“*The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness*”
             ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, *Earth from Above*

*- - -*

*PS... I'm always looking for darkroom equipment & supplies, old or new-ish.*
265863 curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
GeekyCheeks wrote:
> I seem to also recall seeing my dad use one as a square (folding it into a
> right triangle). Not sure if I'm remembering that properly or how he did
> it. By my calculations, a right triangle with a 4:5:6 ratio doesn't
> translate to a 6' folding rule.

It translates just fine if the segments are 4.8 inches long, but that won't
get you your right angle. You might be thinking of a 3:4:5 triangle, which
gives you that right angle AND fits on a 6 foot rule with 6 inch segments.
265864 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
GG's:


1) Astragal Press is definitely still around, now a division of Chester Book Co.
but still reachable at their old URL www.astragalpress.com<http://www.astragalpress.com>.  I just
received their latest catalog in the mail (No relationship except as a
completely satisfied customer.)


2) Kermit's mention of cutting up a bent, distorted, or otherwise undesirable
framing square into a "hook rule" is the "gem of the day" on this Porch. What a
great idea!  Thank you for that idea, Kermit!


I have two handy straight edges that a previous owner made by cutting a framing
square.  Maybe I should weld hooks to them, then file them straight again.


John Ruth

________________________________
From: OldTools  on behalf of Kermit Perlmutter

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:59:06 PM
To: Old Tools List
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Use of zig zag rules

This reminded me of a great use for out of square or surplus steel framing
squares I learned from a smith. He would cut one leg away leaving just a bit of
a hook to use when measuring hot stuff. Super handy re-use.






> I just finished part 2 of a 3 part blacksmithing class, and the instructor
> uses a Lufkin aluminum zig-zag rule, because he is constantly measuring hot
> metal and a tape measure would scorch  and/or burn. As he reminds us
> everytime someone gets burned, "assume everything is hot in a blacksmiths
> shop".
>
> I do use my grandpa's Lufkin X46X (the one with extensions on each end)
> quite a bit, especially when measuring depth or inside dimensions.
>
> Gary Maze
>
> currently building a forge in the backyard in prep for the next blacksmith
> class
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://old
tools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/
ot/

OldTools@s...
265865 CheekyGeek <cheekygeek@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
DOH!
And I got an "A" in Geometry too, but it was (too) many moons ago.
:)

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:19 PM, curt seeliger  wrote:

> GeekyCheeks wrote:
> > I seem to also recall seeing my dad use one as a square (folding it into
> a
> > right triangle). Not sure if I'm remembering that properly or how he did
> > it. By my calculations, a right triangle with a 4:5:6 ratio doesn't
> > translate to a 6' folding rule.
>
> It translates just fine if the segments are 4.8 inches long, but that
> won't get you your right angle. You might be thinking of a 3:4:5 triangle,
> which gives you that right angle AND fits on a 6 foot rule with 6 inch
> segments.
>
>


-- 

“*The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness*”
             ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, *Earth from Above*

*- - -*

*PS... I'm always looking for darkroom equipment & supplies, old or new-ish.*
265866 Kermit Perlmutter <kermit@k...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
Got to give that thanks to James Austin not me. Great guy and a great smith. You
can take a look at his work at http://forgedaxes.com. He just started a study
on Norwegian carpenter’s axes which may be of interest to some porch members (
see http://forgedaxes.com/?page_id=
152)
265867 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2018‑05‑17 Re: Use of zig zag rules
jim *is* a great guy, and makes killer mead, too.  as well done as his axes
and his other forgings (i love the way he does his norse anvils).

kermit, where are you located?

best,
bill
felton, ca

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Kermit Perlmutter 
wrote:
265869 Bruce Zenge <brucensherry@g...> 2018‑05‑18 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I don't anymore due to not doing any woodwork.  But when I was able
to, the zig zag rules were not only useful, but repeatedly more
accurate.  So, yes, I definitely did use my zig zag rules.

Bruce Z.
Des Moines, IA

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:27 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools
 wrote:
265872 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑05‑19 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I have three identical Lufkin red-end zig zigs - checked against each other for
consistency - and I use them all the time in the shop
Ed Minch
265873 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑05‑19 Re: Use of zig zag rules
All the majors made one  that was inside read, so the number 1 was up when
opened he first leaf and set it on your work.  You could get it with both end
having the number 1 inside, or with both of the number 1 a the same end, one
inside and one outside.  I buy all of the inside reads I find and give them to a
freind who uses hem.


Ed Minch
265874 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2018‑05‑19 Re: Use of zig zag rules
Wow guys, thanks
   I have always had zig zag rules around. The engineering intrigues me.
  I like how they look and work and feel. I have great ones, and so so 
ones around.
  I always pick up the really good condition, unusual patterns when I 
see them.
But just never really used them all that much.

Reading all of your experiences makes me want to get some out into more 
common "most used tools" circulation, and really give them an honest chance.
Thanks for this. Maybe they'll change my life. Hope they do

There's never been anyplace like our porch.
yours scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.n
et/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcr
est.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
265875 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑05‑19 Re: Use of zig zag rules
I learned a trick in the early 70’s from an old carpenter I was fortunate enough
to work under for over a year - Joe Shingle, born in 1900

He had a way of opening his 6 foot zig zag where he just spread his arms and it
was fully open in 1/2 a second.  I learned it and still use it.  When you get
good at it, you can open the rule 1/2 way or 1/4 the way almost instantly.  Wish
I knew how to take a movie.

Ed Minch
265876 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑05‑19 Re: Use of zig zag rules
On 2018-05-19 7:28 AM, Ed Minch wrote:
> I learned a trick in the early 70’s from an old carpenter I was fortunate
enough to work under for over a year - Joe Shingle, born in 1900
>
> He had a way of opening his 6 foot zig zag where he just spread his arms and
it was fully open in 1/2 a second.  I learned it and still use it.  When you get
good at it, you can open the rule 1/2 way or 1/4 the way almost instantly.  Wish
I knew how to take a movie.
>
I thought someone had posted a video of this some time ago, but couldn't 
find one when I looked the other day. Is there a Googlemeister in the 
house? I'm just an apprenctice.

Don

-- 

“It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli

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