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265502 Thomas Conroy 2018‑03‑19 Ball-joint saw vises; expertise wanted.
O Galoots:
A couple of weeks ago they finished taking down Fred, the 20" live oak that was
endangering our gas lines, electric cables, and roof. R.I.P. The foreman of the
tree guys brought by his saw vise to show me, inherited and cherished though not
used much in his professional work.
I would have fallen in love, except that it was another's It was tall over the
bench, clamped on. And there was a universal ball joint. I drooled for a while,
and we talked and I showed some of my stuff, and then he had to go on to his
next job, taking the vise with him.
I have a perfectly adequate vice, no frills but clamp-on and everything works. I
have used it three times (my go-to saw is a bowsaw, with a Japanese-toothed
blade, gets the best of both worlds). But this one... I love the socket joint. I
want one. But even more I want to know more about them.
A bit of time on line and I was able to determine that there are at least two
brands, the Disston #1 and the Sargeant #105. Apparently an E.C. Stearns as
well. I found a good article on experience with saw vises by The NorseWoodsmith,
and a good comparison at Blackburn Tools. They seem unenthusiastic about ball-
joint saw vises (not rigid enough). But I still want more information. Can
anybody talk about them? Is there a significant difference between the Disston
and Sargent? What are the drawbacks and advantages? Does anyone love them or
hate them?
Its the ball-joint vises that I'm lusting for. I undrstand the advantage of the
big 15" Wentworth, and the Grammercy copied from it, but I have nowhere to
install one, so that's a frost. I understand the advantages of maaking your own
from wood, but I have nowhere to keep a full-size freestanding one, and I don't
want a saw vise that clamps in my bench vise and sprays steel filings all over
my woodworkiing area. I notice that everyone seems to like the Disston #3, but
they don't say enough about why they like it for me to understand. What I want
to know about (well, honestly, want to purchase wisely eventually) is the ball-
vise variants.
Tom Conroy
Berkeley
265503 Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> 2018‑03‑19 Re: Ball-joint saw vises; expertise wanted.
I use a few ball joint model. Never seemed to lack rigidity. I do like being
able to swivel. Sometimes to catch the window light just right on the teeth.
Sometimes to put the file motion in better line with my arms motion. But most of
all so I can file from the other side without unclamping.

Matthew Groves
Springfield, MO
265504 Claudio DeLorenzi <admin@d...> 2018‑03‑19 Re: Ball-joint saw vises; expertise wanted.
I've got a ball joint one, maybe 8" across,  but if I recall it doesn't
have a makers mark.  Oh, and it's spray painted silver. I remember walking
into the flowershop where I bought it.  The owner was using it to clamp his
order sheets.  I made him an offer, and came home with it.  It holds OK,
but like all small saw vices it vibrates during the cut (even if you line
the jaws with rubber).
 I paid $50 for it, maybe 15 years ago.  It's in storage with about 20
other ones.  If there is any interest, I can dig them out of the pile and
take some pics.
By the way, when I'm in a hurry and just want to touch up, I kerf a strip
of 3/4 by 1 1/2" soft pine, and clamp the blade in my woodworking vise.
That works quite well (no vibration) and it doesn't take up any storage and
the price is right.  Also, you can draw some helpful guidelines across the
top with your bevel square to help you file true. I use magnifiers, and I
only do one stroke per tooth per each pass ,  after a light jointing
(jointing-- single stroke of a 10 in smooth cut mill file... makes a tiny
shiny flat across the tippy top of each tooth, easy to see under
magnification).
  I try to fight the urge to keep going on the high ones with a wider
flat...for me, it's better to skip the low ones on the subsequent passes.
I can't get too far off if I only do one stroke on each tooth per pass,
because I find it much easier to judge tooth height  once the adjacent
teeth are all shiny.
Cheers
Claudio
265506 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2018‑03‑20 Re: Ball-joint saw vises; expertise wanted.
Tom
Like you I fell hard for the look of the ball n socket saw vises long ago.
I determined to get one. I finally saved up enough, and bought one from 
Sandy Moss.
(How I miss Sandy's sale lists!)
  I had to pay postage from Maine.

  Well, sorry for this but,........ they vibrate.
     With the saw so far from the bench its clamped to, up on the tall 
single post, its just an invitation to shimmy. No way to firm it up enough.
     When the work vibrates your files don't last for crap.

   It used to be you could get Nicholson saw files at every corner 
hardware. No problem.
  The rise of warehouse hardware killed that off. No matter what I say, 
anywhere, and try as I might,
the general public is enthralled with being treated like lemmings.
  Park in Kentucky, greet 16 year old minimum wage clerks, and then wait 
in line 20 minutes to get them to take your money.  ugh
  Warehouse stores often dump their new Pakistani files, the few they 
sell, loose into bins.
Clanging together, the quickest way to ruin any file.

   So now we have to guard our expensive mail order saw files under pain 
of death.

   Anyway, low, solid, and as heavy a saw vise as you can find, is self 
defense in this climate. Its not as comfortable to use but its 
--possible--.

   Unless you really want to try it for yourself.
If you do, I have that same Disston #1 saw vise, in very good condition, 
I would happily trade off, if you find something I need.
  Except you would have to pay partial postage. They really are bulky to 
ship and heavy.
         yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
265507 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑03‑20 Re: Ball-joint saw vises; expertise wanted.
On 2018-03-19 9:56 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
>    Tom
> Like you I fell hard for the look of the ball n socket saw vises long 
> ago.
> I determined to get one. I finally saved up enough, and bought one 
> from Sandy Moss.
> (How I miss Sandy's sale lists!)
>  I had to pay postage from Maine.
>
>  Well, sorry for this but,........ they vibrate.
>     With the saw so far from the bench its clamped to, up on the tall 
> single post, its just an invitation to shimmy. No way to firm it up 
> enough.
>     When the work vibrates your files don't last for crap. 


So ... cool, but you maybe don't want to go there!

Don

-- 
I have decided to leave my past behind. So, if I owe you money...I am sorry, but
I’ve moved on.

"The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265508 Thomas Conroy 2018‑03‑20 Re: Ball-joint saw vises; expertise wanted.
Matthew Groves wrote: "I use a few ball joint model. Never seemed to lack
rigidity. I do like being able to swivel. Sometimes to catch the window light
just right on the teeth. Sometimes to put the file motion in better line with my
arms motion. But most of all so I can file from the other side without
unclamping."

Interesting. I find with filing in general that it is easier to keep the file
flat and level, rather than maintaining it at a compound angle to the workpiece
and the ground. So my notion was that with a ball-joint vise I could set it so
that the angle to my file is correct when the top of the file is parallel to the
ground. Then I could move the saw in the vise without changing the angle I file
at. No need of little skeletal angle guides, no need to remember a complex
compound angle and then mirror-image it. I'm looking seriously at the price
range on these; they seem pretty common, though the shape they are in is
apparently a big issue. Hard to tell from a photo.


Tom Conroy
Berkeley

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