OldTools Archive
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264253 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑12‑15 | Venice Arsenal |
GGG The idea of building a ship in a day - even a small one - has been poking at me for the last few days. There are just too many tasks to be completed to fit them into a day, So I thought about the Liberty ships of WWII. There were a lot of yards building these things, and even though they got it down to about 40 days start to finish, they could say they were completing 3 a day. So maybe the one-day represented how often one was finished, not how long it took to build one. Ed Minch |
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264254 | scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> | 2017‑12‑15 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Ed Minch wrote: So maybe the one-day represented how often one was finished, not how long it took to build one. I'm with you Ed Nobody ever carved a bowspirit in one day. Not even a rib, let alone a keel. But lots and lots of guys working on lots and lots of ships, sure I could see one a day finished. yours Scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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264256 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2017‑12‑15 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
On 2017-12-15 4:32 PM, scott grandstaff wrote: > But lots and lots of guys working on lots and lots of ships, sure I > could see one a day finished. > yours Scott 16, 000 workers! Don -- "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses" The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness |
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264257 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
i thought of that Don. If it took you 40 hours to build a table, could you build it in an hour with 40 people? Ed Minch |
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264258 | curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
> But lots and lots of guys working on lots and lots of ships, sure I could see one a day finished. I think that's correct, and pretty much the intended understanding by the original poster. What another galoot brought up -- that this required large-scale sourcing, transportation and organization of materials and the infrastructure to support it -- I find boggling. |
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264259 | Brent Beach <brent.beach@g...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Hi On 2017-12-15 16:07, Ed Minch wrote: > i thought of that Don. If it took you 40 hours to build a table, could you build it in an hour with 40 people? If you had 160 production lines you could complete a table every 15 minutes. Brent -- Brent Beach Victoria, BC, Canada |
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264260 | Mike Rock <mikerock@m...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
They just used an early version of PERT.....theirs based on experience, just like ours..... hundreds of years later. Program evaluation and review technique <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2& cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiY0uHQr43YAhVGLmMKHXs8AfEQFggtMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen .wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FProgram_evaluation_and_review_technique&usg=AOvVaw3N7XDK fXkihR3K8O_t8nY4">https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd= 2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiY0uHQr43YAhVGLmMKHXs8AfEQFggtMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2F en.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FProgram_evaluation_and_review_technique&usg=AOvVaw3N7X DKfXkihR3K8O_t8nY4> On 12/15/2017 6:17 PM, curt seeliger wrote: >> But lots and lots of guys working on lots and lots of ships, sure I could > see one a day finished. > > I think that's correct, and pretty much the intended understanding by the > original poster. What another galoot brought up -- that this required > large-scale sourcing, transportation and organization of materials and the > infrastructure to support it -- I find boggling. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool > aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage, > value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of > traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools. > > To change your subscription options: > https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools > > To read the FAQ: > https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html > > OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/ > > OldTools@s... > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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264261 | David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Can't really speak to tables but with a carefully crafted system it is possible to build, assemble, and ship 360 vehicle doors in a single days production. The process was broken up into three minute steps. Every three minutes a completed assembly was packed for shipment. |
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264262 | galoot@l... | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Quoting Mike Rock |
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264263 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
On 2017-12-15 5:07 PM, Ed Minch wrote: > If it took you 40 hours to build a table, could you build it in an > hour with 40 people? > > Ed Minch That's clearly not what they were doing. they were working on a substantial number of ships simultaneously, the end result being they were able to produce boats at the rate mentioned. Don -- "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses" The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness |
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264264 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
On 2017-12-15 5:17 PM, curt seeliger wrote: > What another galoot brought up -- that this required > large-scale sourcing, transportation and organization of materials and the > infrastructure to support it -- I find boggling. In one respect in particular, namely wood. But they apparently had their own forest. Much of Northern italy would have been forested at that time, and I believe quite a bit still is. They have a fairly significant furniture industry in Italy. Don -- "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses" The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness |
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264265 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
On 2017-12-15 8:01 PM, galoot@l... wrote: > They just used an early version of PERT.....theirs based on experience As mentioned in the links provided previously, this facility developed over several hundred years - long enough for them to get their processes highly efficient. They were mainly building galleys, ships of a type which had evolved in the Mediterranean region over many centuries. Don -- "You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses" The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness |
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264266 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑12‑16 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Thanks Don - my point exactly. Not enough room around the table - so to speak - to work on one table, but a few at a time could work on 5 tables. Ed Minch |
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264277 | paul womack <pwomack@p...> | 2017‑12‑18 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Ed Minch wrote: > GGG > > The idea of building a ship in a day - even a small one - has been poking at me for the last few days. There are just too many tasks to be completed to fit them into a day, So I thought about the Liberty ships of WWII. There were a lot of yards building these things, and even though they got it down to about 40 days start to finish, they could say they were completing 3 a day. > > So maybe the one-day represented how often one was finished, not how long it took to build one. The standard gag is that human gestation is 280, but you can't produce a baby in a day, even with 280 women. (Fred Brooks is watching us all) BugBear |
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264278 | Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> | 2017‑12‑18 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
On Dec 18, 2017, at 7:40 AM, paul womack |
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264279 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2017‑12‑18 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
only if they're galoots. |
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264281 | curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> | 2017‑12‑18 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
Paul writes: >> So maybe the one-day represented how often one was finished, not how long it took to build one. > The standard gag is that human gestation is 280, but you can't produce a baby in a day, even with 280 women. > (Fred Brooks is watching us all) Thanks for the mythical man month memories. I think it was Twain who said you can get one boy's work out of one boy, half a boy's work out of two, and no work at all with three boys. Judging by the writeups of BAGathons, Spoonfests, workshops & c., this rule doesn't apply to galoots, at least not always. Some are pretty productive, at least in a group setting. curt, in cloudy and surprisingly dry Oregon, and just a few days left to break into my galootaclaus pkg |
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264287 | Claudio DeLorenzi <admin@d...> | 2017‑12‑18 | Re: Venice Arsenal |
I spent several hours reading about this. I think in context (from contemporaneous accounts) they were building several vessels at the same time, with the net effect of one rolling off the assembly line (assembly canal?) at roughly one per day in frenzy mode (when Muslim invaders were at the gates, so to speak). The 'Turks' avec le Turban and curved sword, were the motivational posters of the era, as popular ship sculptures. I have photos of several examples from the Maritime Museum of Barcelona somewhere on my hard drive (can't find them right now though). After the successful invasion of Spain (recall the history of the Muslim general who promptly burned his ships upon reaching Spain, telling his sailors they would either be victorious, or dead, ie no retreat was possible). The population of the continent was rather nervous, if not outright fearful after the slaughter and enslavement of the Spaniards by the Musselmani. |
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