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264011 | Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Beetle? |
Greetings Tom, A few years back you gave a demonstration at Kirk's house where you brandished a whalloping instrument which you used in conjunction with a froe. You called it a beetle, which I've only seen it referred to on few occasions with my internet searches. I'd love to learn more about the terminology. I'm looking to make a pub sign for my back yard (as those of you have seen the inside of my house will attest there is no space for more art on the inside) and for some reason can't help thinking that if I chanced upon an establishment called "The Beetle and Froe" I couldn't resist popping in for a quick one. Any insights you can spare? Best, Paul |
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264012 | Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
Paul, Try alternate spelling "beadle". Sent from my iPad |
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264014 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
In shipbuilding, a beetle is just a big wooden mallet. One version is used with a horsing iron for driving caulking materials into seams. A horsing iron is a 2 handed caulking iron - you stand back and hold the iron in the seam, and the beetle wielder gives a couple of stout blows, then you move down the line a couple of inches. I have done this and it is very tiring. Looking for a demonstration of this, I ran across a video of Joe Chetwyn. I worked with Joe when he led the team caulking the Kalmar Nyckel in 1997 and he looked exactly the same as he does in this 2011 video. The horsing iron and beetle start at 2:40 https://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=yE3qVxBykyY |
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264015 | Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
In my 1851 reprinted “The Sailor’s Wordbook”, it is beetle. Ed Minch |
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264016 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
Wasn't me. I've never had a beetle (think circus tent-peg mallet), and the only froe I've ever had broke its handle at a BAGathon at Larry McEvoy's, befor I ever got it working. But I believe "The Beetle and Wedge" is indeed an English traditional pub name, and I have a mental image of having seen a post-WWII style pub sign with the beetle shown as an insect. From: Paul Gardner |
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264017 | Michael Blair <branson2@s...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
Beetle, beadle, also called a froe club. See A Museum of Early American Tools. Mike in Woodland |
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264018 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
https://goo.gl/photos/4sYsTFsofBNfawjh9 At the top of this album, I photographed some book entries on Beetles from four of my reference books (some books didn't have an entry for it at all under this spelling). Basically a maul, typically with iron rings. What they term a Beetle isn't what we typically use with a froe though- it seems as though the term originally meant a big ol mallet for bashing stuff into place or into the ground. Cheers from Waterloo Claudio |
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264019 | Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
A discussion on beetles here: http://tinyurl.com/yd333pl3 from the New York State Agricultural Society of 1858. Phil |
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264020 | Chuck Taylor | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
Tom Conroy wrote: ==snip== But I believe "The Beetle and Wedge" is indeed an English traditional pub name, and I have a mental image of having seen a post-WWII style pub sign with the beetle shown as an insect.==unsnip== http://beetleandwedge.co.uk/ -- Chuck Taylor north of Seattle USA |
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264021 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
here's the sign. http://c8.alamy.com/comp/G2245D/beetle-and-wedge-sign-oxfordshire-uk-G2245D.jpg definitely tom's beetle. best, bill felton, ca On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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264022 | "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
I’d be happy with ‘beetle’ as a name for a commander. Richard Wilson Northumbrian Galoot |
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264023 | Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> | 2017‑11‑21 | Re: Beetle? |
I would stop for a pint there Sent from my iPad |
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264025 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑11‑22 | Re: Beetle? |
Phil Schempf ointed to "A discussion on beetles here: http://tinyurl.com/yd333pl3 from the New York State Agricultural Society of 1858." I found the discussion on beetles so clear and detailed that I explored a bit further, and found that it is part of a long detailed treatise on the tools for digging post holes and setting posts (all by hand of course), which in turn is apparently a part of a fine work on farm tools. Just a few pages before the beetle section, for instance, there are pages and pages and pages on the proper shape, care, and use of spades; with a separate section just as long on shovels; as well as similar on spuds, on the posthole auger, on the dirt spoon, and other tools I have never come across. It insists on having a light rack for leaning your posthole tools against, since the labor of bending down for them and scraping the mud off rapidly uses enough time to dig another couple of holes (shades of Frank Gilbreth's adjustable bricklaying stand,thirty years or so later!). I hope someone remember this source the next time the topic of "shade" vs. "spovel" comes up. Tom Conroy |
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264027 | Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> | 2017‑11‑22 | Re: Beetle? |
someone else who knows of gilbreth! so i can say "null therblig" and you'll know :) best, bill felton, ca On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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264028 | Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> | 2017‑11‑22 | Re: Beetle? |
Big thanks to all for helping me try and get a grasp of the terminology here. Based on the the excellent information provided by Phil, Ed, Claudio, and some additional poking around <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1lGZ0-6IA> - I think while "Beetle and Froe" is linguistically pleasing to my ear, the inaccuracy of memorializing under that banner a coupling in oil paint of what would be more accurately described as a "maul" or "mallet" and froe would grate on me over time. So I'm glad I punted to the wisdom of the porch on this one. So now I'm left with the mystery of why I credited Tom with using this term when he clearly did no such thing. Sorry about that Tom. It seems that other's are inclined to make the same mistake I did with regard to beetle and froe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2h1ofWW35k Paul, in San Francisco On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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264029 | Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> | 2017‑11‑22 | Re: Beetle? |
Let us not overlook the extensive discussion of manure, both the natural and artificial types, as well as their chemical composition. Or the vagaries of cheese production, gate making, land drainage, post hole digging, post making, hedge growing, the results of various experimental crops from far away lands ("chili" peppers) in different parts of the country (and which were and were not recommended for general cultivation) and dozens of other important topics for farmers (the primary audience for the 13th transactions of 1858). I spent my whole lunch hour skim reading it. Fascinating read. Cheers from Waterloo Claudio, (procrastinating again instead of preparing his lectures for the next damn conference) On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools < oldtools@s...> wrote: |
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264030 | Paul Honore <lawnguy44@g...> | 2017‑11‑22 | Re: Beetle? |
Peter Follansbee has an excellent article in the latest Popular Woodworking (December issue just out) "The Zen of Hewing a Froe Club" Paul H. |
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264031 | Thomas Conroy | 2017‑11‑23 | Re: Beetle? |
"someone else who knows of gilbreth! so i can say "null therblig" and you'll know :)" Well.... knows and intensely dislikes.... But I first read "Cheaper By the Dozen" when I was full grown, so I wasn't inclined to see the humor in luring a friend into looking at your new car's motor, then blowing the horn when their head is under the hood... or taking a bath with one uninterrupted swipe of the soap, which probably reads better than it lives... or going along on your daughters' dates sitting in the back seat of the car to prevent hanky-panky or conversation or ever coming out of the house again, which I know is every father's fantasy but I've gotta say my sympathy is with the daughter on this one... I figure that his wife, every galoot's nightmare ("throw away anything you haven't used in the last two years"), was driven to harpydom by having to deal with the old bastard. Nowadays it is easier to see him as the poster boy for repetitive stress injuries; but I've never liked him. I don't even like the movie. TomGrouchy---the plumbing has been off all afternoon, and my computer is misbehaving. |
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264044 | Gregory Hahn <greghahn@s...> | 2017‑11‑25 | Re: Beetle? |
I realize I'm getting to the party late, but when I hear the words "beetle and wedge", I don't think of men caulking a boat (or ship), I see an image of young Abe Lincoln splitting rails (as drawn by Eric Sloane?) and the phrase "beetling along". Don't know why exactly, just a random flashback. -Greg | | Virus-free. www.avg.com | |
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