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264011 Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> 2017‑11‑21 Beetle?
Greetings Tom,

A few years back you gave a demonstration at Kirk's house where you
brandished a whalloping instrument which you used in conjunction with a
froe.  You called it a beetle, which I've only seen it referred to on few
occasions with my internet searches.  I'd love to learn more about the
terminology.  I'm looking to make a pub sign for my back yard (as those of
you have seen the inside of my house will attest there is no space for more
art on the inside) and for some reason can't help thinking that if I
chanced upon an establishment called "The Beetle and Froe" I couldn't
resist popping in for a quick one.

Any insights you can spare?

Best,

Paul
264012 Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
Paul, 
Try alternate spelling "beadle".

Sent from my iPad
264014 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
In shipbuilding, a beetle is just a big wooden mallet.  One version is used with
a horsing iron for driving caulking materials into seams.  A horsing iron is a 2
handed caulking iron - you stand back and hold the iron in the seam, and the
beetle wielder gives a couple of stout blows, then you move down the line a
couple of inches.  I have done this and it is very tiring. Looking for a
demonstration of this, I ran across a video of Joe Chetwyn.  I worked with Joe
when he led the team caulking the Kalmar Nyckel in 1997 and he looked exactly
the same as he does in this 2011 video.  The horsing iron and beetle start at
2:40

https://www.youtube.com/wa
tch?v=yE3qVxBykyY ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE3qVxBykyY>

Another version of the beetle in the shipyard is a piece of 8” or so log on a
handle with iron bands to keep it from splitting.

I have told this story before but it is one of my best memories of shipbuilding.

When you caulk a boat, the cotton and oakum (on a bigger boat you use both) are
driven in very tightly - you can see from the video of the two-handed beetle.
The first step is to complete the caulking with the smaller tools to get it in
place, and then to drive every inch with the larger tools.  On the Kalmar Nyckel
there were 2 sets of horsing iron and beetle and it took 3 days to complete this
last step.

Over the course of the 3 days, the sound of the mallet hitting the iron changed,
becoming more clear and resonant.  By the end, the hull was ringing like a bell
with every blow.
 
Ed Minch
264015 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
In my 1851 reprinted “The Sailor’s Wordbook”, it is beetle.

Ed Minch
264016 Thomas Conroy 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
Wasn't me. I've never had a beetle (think circus tent-peg mallet), and the only
froe I've ever had broke its handle at a BAGathon at Larry McEvoy's, befor I
ever got it working. But I believe "The Beetle and Wedge" is indeed an English
traditional pub name, and I have a mental image of having seen a post-WWII style
pub sign with the beetle shown as an insect.


      From: Paul Gardner 
 To: Thomas Conroy  
Cc: Kirk Eppler ; Bill Kasper ; Joe Parker
; Michael Suwczinsky ; Joe Jerkins
; Greg Isola ; Scott Murman
; Brian Ward ; Old TOOLS 
 Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:02 PM
 Subject: Beetle?
   
Greetings Tom,
A few years back you gave a demonstration at Kirk's house where you brandished a
whalloping instrument which you used in conjunction with a froe.  You called it
a beetle, which I've only seen it referred to on few occasions with my internet
searches.  I'd love to learn more about the terminology.  I'm looking to make a
pub sign for my back yard (as those of you have seen the inside of my house will
attest there is no space for more art on the inside) and for some reason can't
help thinking that if I chanced upon an establishment called "The Beetle and
Froe" I couldn't resist popping in for a quick one.
Any insights you can spare?
Best,
Paul
264017 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
Beetle, beadle, also called a froe club.  See A Museum of Early American
Tools.  

Mike in Woodland
264018 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
https://goo.gl/photos/4sYsTFsofBNfawjh9
At the top of this album, I photographed some book entries on Beetles from
four of my reference books (some books didn't have an entry for it at all
under this spelling).
Basically a maul, typically with iron rings.
What they term a Beetle isn't what we typically use with a froe though- it
seems as though the term originally meant a big ol mallet for bashing stuff
into place or into the ground.
Cheers from Waterloo
Claudio
264019 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
A discussion on beetles here:

http://tinyurl.com/yd333pl3

from the New York State Agricultural Society of 1858.

Phil
264020 Chuck Taylor 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
Tom Conroy wrote:

==snip== 
But I believe "The Beetle and Wedge" is indeed an English traditional pub name,
and I have a mental image of having seen a post-WWII style pub sign with the
beetle shown as an insect.==unsnip==

http://beetleandwedge.co.uk/

--
Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle USA
264021 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
here's the sign.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/G2245D/beetle-and-wedge-sign-oxfordshire-uk-G2245D.jpg

definitely tom's beetle.

best,
bill
felton, ca

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
264022 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
I’d be happy with ‘beetle’ as a name for a commander.  

Richard Wilson
Northumbrian Galoot
264023 Brent A Kinsey <brentpmed@c...> 2017‑11‑21 Re: Beetle?
I would stop for a pint there

Sent from my iPad
264025 Thomas Conroy 2017‑11‑22 Re: Beetle?
Phil Schempf ointed to "A discussion on beetles here:

http://tinyurl.com/yd333pl3

from the New York State Agricultural Society of 1858."


I found the discussion on beetles so clear and detailed that I explored a bit
further, and found that it is part of a long detailed treatise on the tools for
digging post holes and setting posts (all by hand of course), which in turn is
apparently a part of a fine work on farm tools. Just a few pages before the
beetle section, for instance, there  are pages and pages and pages on the proper
shape, care, and use of spades; with a separate section just as long on shovels;
as well as similar on spuds, on the posthole auger, on the dirt spoon, and other
tools I have never come across. It insists on having a light rack for leaning
your posthole tools against, since the labor of bending down for them and
scraping the mud off rapidly uses enough time to dig another couple of holes
(shades of Frank Gilbreth's adjustable bricklaying stand,thirty years or so
later!). I hope someone remember this source the next time the topic of "shade"
vs. "spovel" comes up.
Tom Conroy
264027 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2017‑11‑22 Re: Beetle?
someone else who knows of gilbreth!  so i can say "null therblig" and
you'll know :)

best,
bill
felton, ca

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
264028 Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> 2017‑11‑22 Re: Beetle?
Big thanks to all for helping me try and get a grasp of the terminology
here.  Based on the the excellent information provided by Phil, Ed,
Claudio, and some additional poking around
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1lGZ0-6IA> - I think while "Beetle and
Froe" is linguistically pleasing to my ear, the inaccuracy of memorializing
under that banner a coupling in oil paint of what would be more accurately
described as a "maul" or "mallet" and froe would grate on me over time.  So
I'm glad I punted to the wisdom of the porch on this one.

So now I'm left with the mystery of why I credited Tom with using this term
when he clearly did no such thing.  Sorry about that Tom.

It seems that other's are inclined to make the same mistake I did with
regard to beetle and froe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2h1ofWW35k

Paul, in San Francisco

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
264029 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2017‑11‑22 Re: Beetle?
Let us not overlook the extensive discussion of manure, both the natural
and artificial types, as well as their chemical composition.
Or the vagaries of cheese production, gate making, land drainage, post hole
digging, post making, hedge growing, the results of various experimental
crops from far away lands ("chili" peppers) in different parts of the
country (and which were and were not recommended for general cultivation)
and dozens of other important topics for farmers (the primary audience for
the 13th transactions of 1858).
I spent my whole lunch hour skim reading it.  Fascinating read.
Cheers from Waterloo
Claudio, (procrastinating again instead of preparing his lectures for the
next damn conference)

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools <
oldtools@s...> wrote:
264030 Paul Honore <lawnguy44@g...> 2017‑11‑22 Re: Beetle?
Peter Follansbee has an excellent article  in the latest Popular 
Woodworking (December issue just out)

"The Zen of Hewing a Froe Club"

Paul H.
264031 Thomas Conroy 2017‑11‑23 Re: Beetle?
"someone else who knows of gilbreth!  so i can say "null therblig" and you'll
know :)"

Well.... knows and intensely dislikes....
But I first read "Cheaper By the Dozen" when I was full grown, so I wasn't
inclined to see the humor in luring a friend into looking at your new car's
motor, then blowing the horn when their head is under the hood... or taking a
bath with one uninterrupted swipe of the soap, which probably reads better than
it lives... or going along on your daughters' dates sitting in the back seat of
the car to prevent hanky-panky or conversation or ever coming out of the house
again, which I know is every father's fantasy but I've gotta say my sympathy is
with the daughter on this one...

I figure that his wife, every galoot's nightmare ("throw away anything you
haven't used in the last two years"), was driven to harpydom by having to deal
with the old bastard.

Nowadays it is easier to see him as the poster boy for repetitive stress
injuries; but I've never liked him. I don't even like the movie.
TomGrouchy---the plumbing has been off all afternoon, and my computer is
misbehaving.
264044 Gregory Hahn <greghahn@s...> 2017‑11‑25 Re: Beetle?
I realize I'm getting to the party late, but when I hear the words "beetle and
wedge", I don't think of men caulking a boat (or ship), I see an image of young
Abe Lincoln splitting rails (as drawn by Eric Sloane?) and the phrase "beetling
along". Don't know why exactly, just a random flashback.
-Greg


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