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263941 Pier-Rick Lamontagne <foutchibay@g...> 2017‑11‑14 Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
Hi Great Galoots,


I received a Narex chisel set last week and been working with since, I
found out that I don't like the "bump" over the upper ferrule. Since I use
a lot the palm of my hand, the pressure push in a specific place and it
tend to hurt after a while.


I've read a Paul Seller blog about a cheap chisel set where he removed the
ferrule and use the chisel without it.
I only have a wooden mallet, no hard iron hammer or even a soft face mallet.

What do you think about this process? Would it broke the chisel handle
after a while? (I don't want to change the handle too soon).

The said chisels : https://imgur.com/a/bWiei


The "modified" handle from Paul https://imgu
r.com/a/bFb5C


Rick
263942 curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2017‑11‑14 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
Good morning Rick,
> I received a Narex chisel set last week and been working with since, I
> found out that I don't like the "bump" over the upper ferrule. Since I use
> a lot the palm of my hand, the pressure push in a specific place and it
> tend to hurt after a while.

Mr. Sellers isn't the only person who suggests bobbing chisel handles.
Frank Klaus (go look him up) also suggests doing so. You won't wreck them,
you'll just make them comfortable and improve the ergonomics for whacking
them.

The Marples that these people use as demonstrations aren't 'cheap' so much
as inexpensive, kinda like I've heard about the Narex. People are unlikely
to collect these in the future, so modifying them for use won't make anyone
cringe. In fact, you might even drill a hang-hole (just not in the blade).
263943 Claudio DeLorenzi <admin@d...> 2017‑11‑14 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
I've got at least a hundred chisels with no upper ferrule, most of them are
old or very old and I use them all the time. Only the heavy timber framing
chisels have upper rings.

 The wood alone is fine on your narex, just never use a metallic hammer to
strike them.

Cheers,
Claudio de Lorenzi

On Nov 14, 2017 9:20 AM, "Pier-Rick Lamontagne" 
wrote:

Hi Great Galoots,


I received a Narex chisel set last week and been working with since, I
found out that I don't like the "bump" over the upper ferrule. Since I use
a lot the palm of my hand, the pressure push in a specific place and it
tend to hurt after a while.


I've read a Paul Seller blog about a cheap chisel set where he removed the
ferrule and use the chisel without it.
I only have a wooden mallet, no hard iron hammer or even a soft face mallet.

What do you think about this process? Would it broke the chisel handle
after a while? (I don't want to change the handle too soon).

The said chisels : https://imgur.com/a/bWiei


The "modified" handle from Paul https://imgu
r.com/a/bFb5C


Rick
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263944 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2017‑11‑14 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
I would also add that Lonnie Bird (look him up) also does so. It's all about
making the tool more useful.

Cheers,
John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Nov 14, 2017, at 10:51 AM, curt seeliger mailto:seeligerc@g...>> wrote:
Snip
Frank Klaus (go look him up) also suggests doing so. You won't wreck them,
you'll just make them comfortable and improve the ergonomics for whacking
them.
263946 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2017‑11‑14 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
GG's


The "upper ferrule" is properly called a "Schlagring" - I believe the late Jim
Thompson, who signed himself as "The Old Millrat," introduced this term to the
Porch. It's of German origin.


Jim used to turn them on a metal-cutting lathe out of pipe.


And, yes, they are of greatest use on a heavy-duty chisel.  They are frequently
seen on Japanese-style framing chisels.


After a period of use, the wood fibers get smashed over the edge of the
schlagring and further beatings sort of trim the edge.  IMHE, the chisel is
acceptably easy on the hand after top gets smoothed out by use.


John

________________________________
From: OldTools  on behalf of John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:06:24 AM
To: curt seeliger
Cc: oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)

I would also add that Lonnie Bird (look him up) also does so. It's all about
making the tool more useful.

Cheers,
John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Nov 14, 2017, at 10:51 AM, curt seeliger mailto:seeligerc@g...>> wrote:
Snip
Frank Klaus (go look him up) also suggests doing so. You won't wreck them,
you'll just make them comfortable and improve the ergonomics for whacking
them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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263947 Claudio DeLorenzi <admin@d...> 2017‑11‑14 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
Re Schlagring
I have an old German dowel plate that has Schlagring stamped onto it. Maybe
it means round metal thing also?

  Just checked on the confusor, and Mr Google says it's slang for knuckle
dusters ie brass knuckles, haha.  A new use for my dowel plate!

Cheers,
Claudio de Lorenzi
263949 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑14 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
On 2017-11-14 9:32 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi wrote:
> Re Schlagring
> I have an old German dowel plate that has Schlagring stamped onto it. Maybe
> it means round metal thing also?
>
>    Just checked on the confusor, and Mr Google says it's slang for knuckle
> dusters ie brass knuckles, haha.  A new use for my dowel plate!

dictionary.com reveals "Austrian German Schlag, short for Schlagobers 
whipped cream, equivalent to German Schlag blow (noun corresponding to 
schlagen to strike..."

Apparently it can be used in the context of whipping, striking or hitting.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263951 bridger@b... 2017‑11‑15 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
I think a literal translation wold be something like slam ring.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio DeLorenzi" 
To:"John Ruth" 
Cc:"oldtools@s..." 
Sent:Tue, 14 Nov 2017 11:32:26 -0500
Subject:Re: [OldTools] Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)

 Re Schlagring
 I have an old German dowel plate that has Schlagring stamped onto it.
Maybe
 it means round metal thing also?

 Just checked on the confusor, and Mr Google says it's slang for
knuckle
 dusters ie brass knuckles, haha. A new use for my dowel plate!

 Cheers,
 Claudio de Lorenzi
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
 aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history,
usage,
 value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
 traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

 To change your subscription options:
 https://ol
dtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

 To read the FAQ:
 https://swingleydev.com/arch
ive/faq.html

 OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com
/ot/

 OldTools@s...
263969 Thomas Conroy 2017‑11‑16 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
John Ruth wrote: "The "upper ferrule" is properly called a "Schlagring" - I
believe the late Jim Thompson, who signed himself as "The Old Millrat,"
introduced this term to the Porch. It's of German origin.

"Jim used to turn them on a metal-cutting lathe out of pipe.

"And, yes, they are of greatest use on a heavy-duty chisel.  They are frequently
seen on Japanese-style framing chisels."


I think there is something to be said for the term "upper ferrule" for the half-
assed imitation of a hoop (the correct English-language term for what Germans
call a "schlagring") on these inexpensive chisel handles. A proper hoop is a
solid, heavy-duty iron ring shrunk or press-fitted into place, able to withstand
long-term battering from a steel hammer. A thickness of 1/8" is not unusual,
certainly more than 1/16" for examples that actually do a job. The modern "upper
ferrule" is made of thin stamped steel fitted loosely and held in place by a
dimpled spot, utterly without function and unable to withstand any degree of
impact at all. Better be rid of an upper ferrule right away. And I would save
the traditional terms for traditional parts that serve a function.

You can bob off the upper ferrule, using a hacksaw to avoid the risk of damage
to your wood-cutting saws. However, you can also remove the metal, leaving the
wood stub under it (this usually comes down to hacksawing in a steep spiral
around the ferrule), then using the stub as the core of a series of leather
washers. The leather washers are surprisingly effective for resisting battering
on a bench chisel or firmer, though I can see how you might want something more
solid for a real heavy-duty housewright's  framing chisel. Or you might use the
wooden stub as the core for a rawhide turks-head, or even for a genuine hoop.
Lots of possibilities. And, of course, eventually you can replace the whole
handle; even without a lathe you can make a comfortable single-tapered octagonal
handle with a slice of copper pipe as a blade-end ferrule. My first chisel
handle was of this type, and it is still in use (on a tuning gouge) after about
thirty years.

Tom Conroy
Berkeley
263970 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑11‑16 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
> On Nov 16, 2017, at 2:32 AM, Thomas Conroy via OldTools  wrote:
> 
> My first chisel handle was of this type, and it is still in use (on a tuning
gouge) after about thirty years.


Tom

Is that for use on a piano?  Do you hit the tuning chisel with a tuning hammer?


My lovely daughter has a friend who is a piano tuner and he showed me his tuning
hammer - it has a carbon fiber fat handle with a rosewood turned knob.  He said
that it is lighter than an all wood one, but also it is stiffer.  I can’t
imagine a similarly thick piece of wood being un-stiff, but what do I know?

https://www.fujanproducts.com

Ed Minch
263974 <gtgrouch@r...> 2017‑11‑16 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
I've never purchased a chisel with schlagring where there was not wood
protruding past the metal at the strike end.

The only chisels with a true metal striking surface are the ones like the
Stanley everlast design.

I agree that the cheap loose metal bands you see occasionally should be
discarded immediately: they're useless.

Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA

---- Thomas Conroy via OldTools  wrote: 

=============
John Ruth wrote: "The "upper ferrule" is properly called a "Schlagring" - I
believe the late Jim Thompson, who signed himself as "The Old Millrat,"
introduced this term to the Porch. It's of German origin.

"Jim used to turn them on a metal-cutting lathe out of pipe.

"And, yes, they are of greatest use on a heavy-duty chisel.  They are frequently
seen on Japanese-style framing chisels."
=================================================================

I think there is something to be said for the term "upper ferrule" for the half-
assed imitation of a hoop (the correct English-language term for what Germans
call a "schlagring") on these inexpensive chisel handles. A proper hoop is a
solid, heavy-duty iron ring shrunk or press-fitted into place, able to withstand
long-term battering from a steel hammer. A thickness of 1/8" is not unusual,
certainly more than 1/16" for examples that actually do a job. The modern "upper
ferrule" is made of thin stamped steel fitted loosely and held in place by a
dimpled spot, utterly without function and unable to withstand any degree of
impact at all. Better be rid of an upper ferrule right away. And I would save
the traditional terms for traditional parts that serve a function.
263981 Thomas Conroy 2017‑11‑16 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
I wrote the misbegotten sentence "My first chisel handle was of this type, and
it is still in use (on a tuning gouge) after about thirty years" and Ed Minch
asked me "Tom, Is that for use on a piano?  Do you hit the tuning chisel with a
tuning hammer?"


Turning gouge I meant turning gouge. Damn typos. Pass that spitoon.

Tom Conroy, grumpy.
263986 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2017‑11‑17 Re: Protuberance on chisel (upper ferrule)
SNIP

The "upper ferrule" is properly called a "Schlagring" - I believe the late
Jim Thompson, who signed himself as "The Old Millrat," introduced this term
to the Porch. It's of German origin.

END SNIP

Quite right.  I once bought a set of German-made firming chisels, and they
had schlagrings, and called them that in German.  In German, "Schlag" means
"blow," as in "strike a blow."  So as with many German part names, it is
quite literal; it is a ring that protects the ends from mushrooming  because
of blows from the mallet.

As many doubtless remember, Jim T, alias, the Old MIllrat, was fluent in
German.

Cheers!

J



Joseph Sullivan

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