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150390 GHS <GHS@e...> 2005‑09‑28 Problems with the mailman program.
1.Digests have been set to individual mail
2 The url for options does not work yet, so we can not fix #1 ourselves. 
Has anyone had luck with the "command emails"?
3. Admin  setting for where to return reply to is set to sender I 
believe. Is that intentional? Normally those get set to "list" I believe.

Mike Graf

-- 
Please visit us at http://www.gaudeteforge.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To read the FAQ:
http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/

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247903 "David Erickson" <dave@r...> 2014‑05‑16 RE: The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer
Also, not to belabor the point, but the examples I have seen so far in this
thread of patches, were patches to the sole.  My “less traditional” alternative
was a steel wedge attached inside the throat.  i.e. a vertical wedge screwed in
the throat mortise that closes it to the desired gap.

 

From: David Erickson [mailto:dave@r...] 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:21 AM
To: 'Zachary Dillinger'; 'Adam R. Maxwell'
Cc: 'John Holladay'; 'oldtools@r...'
Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer

 

I’ve seen many resoled planes, often with lignum vitae or ebony.  As to whether
they were old or new resole jobs, couldn’t comment, didn’t look.

 

From: Zachary Dillinger [mailto:zacharydillinger@g...]">mailto:zacharydillinger@g...]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Adam R. Maxwell
Cc: John Holladay; oldtools@r...; David Erickson
Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer

 

Exactly. I've seen many old patches on wooden planes but I've never seen an old
resole job.




--
Zachary Dillinger

http://eatoncountywoodworke
r.blogspot.com/

The Eaton County Joinery
www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com <http://www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com">http://www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com>
517-231-3374

 

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Adam R. Maxwell mailto:amaxwell@m...">mailto:amaxwell@m...> > wrote:

I'm with you on patching the mouth! I'm also curious why the OP thinks a resole
is more traditional? I mean, it's a plane, not a boot… :)

Adam


> On May 16, 2014, at 10:02, Zachary Dillinger mailto:zacharydillinger@g...">mailto:zacharydillinger@g...> > wrote:
>
> Well, I appear to be in the minority, preferring to patch the mouth. Either
> way will work beautifully if you are careful
247906 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2014‑05‑16 Re: The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer
You're right, I read that as a wedge-shaped piece attached to the sole in the
mouth.

Throat closing wedges (of wood) are more common for low angle planes, I think,
because they have more room for chip clearing. Doesn't mean that it wouldn't
work, of course, but what would keep it from acting as a scraper as the sole
wears?

> On May 16, 2014, at 10:28, David Erickson  wrote:
> 
> Also, not to belabor the point, but the examples I have seen so far in this
thread of patches, were patches to the sole.  My “less traditional” alternative
was a steel wedge attached inside the throat.  i.e. a vertical wedge screwed in
the throat mortise that closes it to the desired gap.
>  
> From: David Erickson [mailto:dave@r...] 
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:21 AM
> To: 'Zachary Dillinger'; 'Adam R. Maxwell'
> Cc: 'John Holladay'; 'oldtools@r...'
> Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer
>  
> I’ve seen many resoled planes, often with lignum vitae or ebony.  As to
whether they were old or new resole jobs, couldn’t comment, didn’t look.
>  
> From: Zachary Dillinger [mailto:zacharydillinger@g...]">mailto:zacharydillinger@g...]
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:09 AM
> To: Adam R. Maxwell
> Cc: John Holladay; oldtools@r...; David Erickson
> Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer
>  
> Exactly. I've seen many old patches on wooden planes but I've never seen an
old resole job.
> 
> --
> Zachary Dillinger
> http://eatoncountywoodwor
ker.blogspot.com/
> The Eaton County Joinery
> www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com
> 517-231-3374
>  
> 
> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Adam R. Maxwell  wrote:
> I'm with you on patching the mouth! I'm also curious why the OP thinks a
resole is more traditional? I mean, it's a plane, not a boot… :)
> 
> Adam
> 
> > On May 16, 2014, at 10:02, Zachary Dillinger  wrote:
> >
> > Well, I appear to be in the minority, preferring to patch the mouth. Either
> > way will work beautifully if you are careful
>
247908 "David Erickson" <dave@r...> 2014‑05‑16 RE: The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer
Good question, the steel wedge would be removed and filed if adjustment was
needed.  Also the wedge would be relieved at the front edge so contact would be
at the rear.

 

From: Adam R. Maxwell [mailto:amaxwell@m...]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:34 AM
To: David Erickson
Cc: Zachary Dillinger; John Holladay; oldtools@r...
Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer

 

You're right, I read that as a wedge-shaped piece attached to the sole in the
mouth.

 

Throat closing wedges (of wood) are more common for low angle planes, I think,
because they have more room for chip clearing. Doesn't mean that it wouldn't
work, of course, but what would keep it from acting as a scraper as the sole
wears?


On May 16, 2014, at 10:28, David Erickson mailto:dave@r...">mailto:dave@r...> > wrote:

Also, not to belabor the point, but the examples I have seen so far in this
thread of patches, were patches to the sole.  My “less traditional” alternative
was a steel wedge attached inside the throat.  i.e. a vertical wedge screwed in
the throat mortise that closes it to the desired gap.

 

From: David Erickson [mailto:dave@r...] 
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:21 AM
To: 'Zachary Dillinger'; 'Adam R. Maxwell'
Cc: 'John Holladay'; 'oldtools@r... <mailto:oldtools@r...">mailto:oldtools@r...> '
Subject: RE: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer

 

I’ve seen many resoled planes, often with lignum vitae or ebony.  As to whether
they were old or new resole jobs, couldn’t comment, didn’t look.

 

From: Zachary Dillinger [mailto:zacharydillinger@g...]">mailto:zacharydillinger@g...]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:09 AM
To: Adam R. Maxwell
Cc: John Holladay; oldtools@r... <mailto:oldtools@r...">mailto:oldtools@r...> ; David Erickson
Subject: Re: [OldTools] The Sole of an Old Beech Jointer

 

Exactly. I've seen many old patches on wooden planes but I've never seen an old
resole job.




--
Zachary Dillinger

http://eatoncountywoodworke
r.blogspot.com/

The Eaton County Joinery
www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com <http://www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com">http://www.theeatoncountyjoinery.com>
517-231-3374

 

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Adam R. Maxwell mailto:amaxwell@m...">mailto:amaxwell@m...> > wrote:

I'm with you on patching the mouth! I'm also curious why the OP thinks a resole
is more traditional? I mean, it's a plane, not a boot… :)

Adam


> On May 16, 2014, at 10:02, Zachary Dillinger mailto:zacharydillinger@g...">mailto:zacharydillinger@g...> > wrote:
>
> Well, I appear to be in the minority, preferring to patch the mouth. Either
> way will work beautifully if you are careful
248338 Thomas Conroy <booktoolcutter@y...> 2014‑06‑04 RE: incannel
John Ruth wrote: "Scott's comment about mounted stones brings up the question as
to whether a
CONICAL mounted stone of the correct diameter and taper might not sharpen an
incannel gouge perfectly in a single contact with the stone."


I've eaten up a number of conical mounted stones for cleaning up the insides of
mushroomed chisel sockets, though I have to confess I've usually bought them
new. In my experience, if a power grinder is the same diameter as the curve I am
trying to make, it grabs and tries to throw the tool off somewhere. So far I've
been lucky and it hasn't thrown it at me. So now, I always grind with a tool of
smaller diameter than the surface I am trying to make; with a conical stone,
with a part of the cone that is smaller.

Tom
248340 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2014‑06‑04 Re: RE: incannel
I imagine Jim will be along shortly to set us straight, but in the mean
time you can look at his article on sharpening incannels on Wictor's site-

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/incannelGouge/incanGauge1.
asp">http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/jThompson/incannelGouge/incanGauge1.asp<
/a>

Phil


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Thomas Conroy 
wrote:

> John Ruth wrote: "Scott's comment about mounted stones brings up the
> question as to whether a
> CONICAL mounted stone of the correct diameter and taper might not sharpen
> an
> incannel gouge perfectly in a single contact with the stone."
>
>
> I've eaten up a number of conical mounted stones for cleaning up the
> insides of mushroomed chisel sockets, though I have to confess I've usually
> bought them new. In my experience, if a power grinder is the same diameter
> as the curve I am trying to make, it grabs and tries to throw the tool off
> somewhere. So far I've been lucky and it hasn't thrown it at me. So now, I
> always grind with a tool of smaller diameter than the surface I am trying
> to make; with a conical stone, with a part of the cone that is smaller.
>
> Tom
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
248342 David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2014‑06‑05 Re: incannel
>From: Adrian Jones




>As for sharpening, could you make some lengths of wood the exact profile and
>glue on various grits of sandpaper?

Your question triggered a memory. 
In ancient times early Galoots used a very convoluted process to create such a
tool.
The long drawn out explanation is here: 
http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=make+emery+wh
eels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=make%20eme
ry%20wheels&f=false">http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=m
ake+emery+wheels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&
q=make%20emery%20wheels&f=false
248343 "Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq" <rohrabacher@e...> 2014‑06‑05 Re: Was incanel now Thermite and RR tracks
Somewhere in that pop mechanics edition is a segment on Thermite welding 
of RR tracks
Reference back to a conversation on this a while back.

On 6/4/2014 10:03 PM, David Nighswander wrote:
>> From: Adrian Jones
>
>
>
>> As for sharpening, could you make some lengths of wood the exact profile and
>> glue on various grits of sandpaper?
> Your question triggered a memory.
> In ancient times early Galoots used a very convoluted process to create such a
tool.
> The long drawn out explanation is here:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=make+emery+
wheels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=make%20e
mery%20wheels&f=false">http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq
=make+emery+wheels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepag
e&q=make%20emery%20wheels&f=false
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
> http://swingleydev.com/archi
ve/faq.html
>
> OldTools archive: http://swingleydev.com/archive/">http://swingleydev.com/archive/
>
> OldTools@r...
> http://rucku
s.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
248345 Ed Minch <ruby@m...> 2014‑06‑05 Re: incannel
fascinating - I suppose you can re-apply the emory to the base over and over
again once you have that base,

I was most impressed by the “Woven metal costume for electricians”.

Ed Minch





On Jun 4, 2014, at 10:03 PM, David Nighswander  wrote:

> 
> Your question triggered a memory. 
> In ancient times early Galoots used a very convoluted process to create such a
tool.
> The long drawn out explanation is here: 
> http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=make+emery+
wheels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=make%20e
mery%20wheels&f=false-----------------------------------------------------------
-------------">http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=make+em
ery+wheels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=make
%20emery%20wheels&f=false-------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
248354 David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2014‑06‑06 Re: incannel
From: Ed Minch





fascinating - I suppose you can re-apply the emory to the base over and over
again once you have that base,​



I was most impressed by the “Woven metal costume for electricians”.




http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=make+emery+wh
eels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=make%20eme
ry%20wheels&f=false">http://books.google.com/books?id=v98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA330&dq=m
ake+emery+wheels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V86PU8zfHIGYyASqzIKoBw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&
q=make%20emery%20wheels&f=false



The suit is a cool idea. A Faraday cage costume is one way to prevent being
electrocuted. As long as the suit is grounded any charge will travel through the
metal mesh to ground without putting the wearer in the circuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Faraday_cage

Not that I want to put myself at risk by pulling a stunt like that.
249402 Thomas Conroy <booktoolcutter@y...> 2014‑07‑22 Re: Making Railroad Ties
Jim Crammond wrote: "Chopping a Railroad Tie out of an 8 foot log �paid �10
cents per tie.A good �Tie Hacker could �earn 80 cents a day ...for 8 ties."

They cost more than that now.


http://woodknot.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=Home&TheMenuItem=Home


Tom Conroy
ducking and running
263311 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑09‑16 Re: re spar varnish sound off....
On 2017-09-15 6:56 PM, ecoyle@t... wrote:
> the local boat repairer recommended “epifanes”
>
> anyway site is
> https://www.epifanes.com/page/clear-finishes
>
> a tad on the pricy side, but I’ve done wooden  vanity countertops that did not
take kindly to the water
>
> for sink cut-outs, you want to make sure that the cuts are sealed too, and
that silicone sealant is meticulously applied., or you will be responding to
your own “call-backs”
>
> Used it a while back to  refinish exterior church doors....If I recall
correctly thinners/sovents are equally pricey

I used epifanes to varnish east &  south-facing window frames a few 
years ago - MLW says 8-9 years! Six coats, starting thin & getting 
thicker each time. Probably should have sanded some and revarnished 
sooner, but round to-its have been scarce around here the past while. 
Anyway, those areas which get the most sun - the sills especially, and 
lower half of the frames - have deteriorated. Those areas need scraping 
and refinishing. But the upper portions, which get much less sun, still 
look good. I'll sand those areas lightly and recoat, if the weather 
breaks sometime soon. Good stuff. Pricey though. Thinners pricey too.

FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263313 gary may 2017‑09‑16 Re: re spar varnish sound off....
Don and Gentle Galoots---

    Varnish for windows---there's an epiphany for me. GOT to be beautiful...
    I use that Epifanes spar varnish too, and I love it on furniture. I used to
use the local spar from Miller Paint, but they quit making 'real' varnish long
ago (and not so long ago, all 'oil' paints)...sad days for me.  I love that
stuff.
   .A commercial boat-builder friend of told me that ALL varnish is expensive,
in terms of time spent putting it on and restoring it, so Epifanes is the best
bargain, being the toughest natural finish in his experience.  It's pretty
tough, all right.
    I haven't used it outdoors for anything, but it is designed to be out there,
in the salt and direct sun, and made to endure tremendous beating and abrasion
too. I'm getting ready to make a bay window to overlook our frog pond in the
backyard, and I'll varnish that---it'll be under the eaves, and won't see much
direct sun so it'll surely outlast my ass.
    btw, I use regular paint thinner or turpentine---also at the recommendation
of my boat-builder buddy--works fine for me.  I have benches and table tops that
look as good as they did when the varnish cured. And in some cases, that's 30+
years, though that'd be Miller's brew.....
thanks Don, and best to all galoots everywhere---gam in OlyWa/USA

How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen

      From: Don Schwartz 
 To: oldtools@s... 
 Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 7:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [OldTools] re spar varnish sound off....
   
On 2017-09-15 6:56 PM, ecoyle@t... wrote:
> the local boat repairer recommended “epifanes”
>
> anyway site is
> https://www.epifanes.com/page/clear-finishes
>
> a tad on the pricy side, but I’ve done wooden  vanity countertops that did not
take kindly to the water
>
> for sink cut-outs, you want to make sure that the cuts are sealed too, and
that silicone sealant is meticulously applied., or you will be responding to
your own “call-backs”
>
> Used it a while back to  refinish exterior church doors....If I recall
correctly thinners/sovents are equally pricey

I used epifanes to varnish east &  south-facing window frames a few 
years ago - MLW says 8-9 years! Six coats, starting thin & getting 
thicker each time. Probably should have sanded some and revarnished 
sooner, but round to-its have been scarce around here the past while. 
Anyway, those areas which get the most sun - the sills especially, and 
lower half of the frames - have deteriorated. Those areas need scraping 
and refinishing. But the upper portions, which get much less sun, still 
look good. I'll sand those areas lightly and recoat, if the weather 
breaks sometime soon. Good stuff. Pricey though. Thinners pricey too.

FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...
263314 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑09‑16 Re: re spar varnish sound off....
I have a friend who is a professional finisher, and she will take on a boat once
in a while.  Her finishes are like mirrors.  IIRC her first coat is 50/50 of
Intelux Schooner varnish and mineral spirits, then 2 coats full strength, then a
light sand to get rid of goobers, then 2 coats with a splash of Penetrol in it.
Not a brush stroke in site.  Always high gloss- ‘cause it’s a boat!

Another friend had a 72 foot William Hand designed motor sailor that he restored
in the late 70’s and cruised the Carribean and East Coast and sold in after
about 2000. He renamed it the William Hand because it was so typical of the
designer’s work.  Here it is for sale after another restoration:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1933/William-Hand-motorsailer-2685698
/South-Freeport/ME/United-
States#.Wb1_5hTtFEc">http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1933/William-Hand-
motorsailer-2685698/South-Freeport/ME/United-States#.Wb1_5hTtFEc

Our boat takes 1 quart of varnish per session for one coat on the mast and two
on the deck trim.  His boat took 70 quarts for 3 coats (that’s 18 gallons) and
he put it on with a roller.

Ed Minch
263317 Chuck Taylor 2017‑09‑17 Re: re spar varnish sound off....
Gentle Galoots,

One point about spar varnishes that may get overlooked:  Spar varnishes intended
for marine applications contain UV inhibitors to protect the finish against
ultraviolet light. The UV inhibitors "wear out" with exposure to sunlight.
That's why new varnish needs to be applied on a regular basis (to replace the UV
inhibitors). In the Puget Sound region, I get away with 2 coats every 2 years (I
keep my boat under cover when not in use). In Florida I'm told they need to
refresh varnish on boats every 6 months. Once a year is enough in most places.
YMMV.

For non-marine use it depends on how much sun exposure there is.

Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle
where we are getting some much-needed rain after a long, dry summer
263371 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑09‑23 Re: Difficult project fluting
On 2017-09-22 7:40 PM, Joseph Sullivan wrote:
> how does one turn an elliptical shape?


This is not a trivial problem, and may be well-documented somewhere. I 
believe you need to use multiple centers (for off-centre turning), but 
how you calculate the spacing of the centers to produce the desired 
ellipse is beyond my comprehension. Suggest you search printed sources 
and youtube for 'woodturning ellipse' for ideas. There are eccentric 
chucks and apparently also an ellipse chuck, but there may be other 
ideas that will inspire you. It's been done before - you just have to 
research til you find a solution or reinvent the wheel. Have fun!

As for the fluting, a pair of dividers, a flexible rule and a few 
carving gouges should be all you need - assuming you already have the 
patience and steady hands!

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263393 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑09‑30 Re: Miller's Falls 120b handle?
On 2017-09-29 7:12 PM, Bill Traynor wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Anyone know where I might obtain a side handle for a Miller's Falls 
> 120B breast drill? 

Somewhere on this planet there is a mountain of egg beater and breast 
drill side handles - like the floating plastic island out in the Pacific.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263395 John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> 2017‑09‑30 Re: Miller's Falls 120b handle?
Don and The Porch

Right next to the mountain of breast drill handles is a smaller mountain of lost
breast plates.

There's a foothill of missing chuck jaws.

To paraphrase Michael Dunbar, any inexpensive useful looking antique took parts
should be bought on sight. If you don't use them, they can be eBay'ed or taken
to a swap meet.

John Ruth
Off to a flea market!


Se
263396 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑09‑30 Re: Miller's Falls 120b handle?
They live on the planet of lost socks

Ed Minch
263533 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑10‑13 Re: best way to bind a stump
On 2017-10-13 8:49 AM, Joseph Sullivan wrote:
> Friends:
>
> The Bois d'Arc stump on which I rest my anvil has split.  It is about 18
inches in diameter.  What is the best way to solidly and permanently bind it
together?
>
> Joe
>
> Joseph Sullivan
>
Along with all the other great suggestions, you might have a dispensing 
tin or two of flexible metal strapping which come with their own 
hollow-rectangular clips and a little ratcheting strap wrench for 
tightening. Can't recall what the stuff is called (and I'm 2 days 
driving from home), but they are quite strong and useful for containing 
irregular shapes. A kind of old-school zip tie!

Don

-- 
Friday the 13th is just a dumb superstition. At least that’s what my horoscope
said.
– Matt Nedostup

"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263715 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑10‑28 Re: Patina?
On 2017-10-27 4:33 PM, Mike Lynd via OldTools wrote:
> And the correct pronunciation is.........
>
> p'TEENǝ
>
> or
>
> PATinnǝ?


The Wiktionary suggests the two illustrate yet another difference 
between English as spoken in Britain and as it's spoken in USA. In 
Britain, the emphasis is apparently on the first syllable, whereas in 
America it's on the second. The latter is arguably closer to the French 
'patine' , from which it is derived (or so they say), though the 'hard' 
EE sound would not be. In my experience here in Canada, English speakers 
favour the American emphasis. As an aside, it appears the default 
spell-checker in Thunderbird is American-based: it highlights my 
spelling of 'favour'. I'll have to fix that!


FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263722 Thomas Conroy 2017‑10‑30 Re: Patina?
Mike Lynd wrote: "I always thought that the second one was the correct one with
the emphasis
on the first syllable, but I hear the first one more and more these days. I
await the decision of the Porch."

This is the magic of the word "patina." There are at least three pronunciations
(paTEENa, paTYNEa, PATinna), and by appropriate choice you can generally make
yourself sound snooty and your customer (excuse me, "client") feel like an
undereducated boor. This is in preparation for charging at least five times
going rate for an object (excuse me, "objet.") On the other hand, by matching
the pronunciation of a more sophisticated client you can encourage feelings of
collegiality and lure him into thinking you are on the same side, making it
easier to slip him a piece that is, well, "sophisticated" in the rare book
meaning (a polite euphemism for "faked up a bit", Jeff). And since the word
means, objectively, just "old surface" it can be used to describe anything form
the smooth, beautiful surface left by wear and the rubbing of the hand on
natural stable oxidation, through deliberate new oxidation for the sake of
brilliant colors, to a disgusting grotty old coating of soil, corrosion, and
filth. The word "patina" is in fact a pretty good hype alert, not a diagnostic
all by itself but a warning to be on your toes.
Tom Conroy
harrumphing and schwaless, a day or two late.
263723 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑10‑30 Re: Stratton Brothers Level
On 2017-10-29 4:45 PM, Brent A Kinsey wrote:
> I suppose it is possible that the vial became broken at some point and the
prior owner meticulously cleaned out the vee notch and pared away any trace of
plaster, although I think this unlikely.


Brent:

Perhaps a prior owner cleaned out the plaster etc , intending to insert 
a new vial, as you intend, but for some reason failed to do so. Death, 
incapacity etc sometimes intervene. I have wondered what MLW would do 
should she have to deal with the bits & bobs of my projects in progress. 
I rather doubt she would seek out missing parts.. .


FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263754 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑02 Re: Free old box knife w/out retractable blade
On 2017-11-02 5:56 AM, Gye Greene wrote:
> I have enough tools from him (including both of my saw sets), and the
> non-retractable blade scares me.;)

I fit mine into a length of suitably-sized heavy cardboard tubing. I 
find that stuff very useful, especially when working outside of the 
shop. Great for knives, pad saw, drywall saw, ice pick, etc. - and cheap!

FWIW
Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263771 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑02 Re: New galoot
On 2017-11-02 3:07 PM, Mick Dowling wrote:
> Welcome aboard. There are quite a few British, and Australians on the list,
> some New Zealanders also, best you only take advice from us to help you out
> with English.
>
> Mick Dowling
> Melbourne


Ahem. Canadians first! You'll have a chance understanding us.

Don, in Calgary, where winter is setting in...

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263773 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑02 Re: New galoot
On 2017-11-02 4:25 PM, bridger@b... wrote:
> you can run, but you can't hide.

In the outback, he could hide forever...

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263778 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2017‑11‑03 Re: New galoot
Excuse me, but,

The first order of business is to say ‘Welcome' to Rick, evidently someone of
refinement and good taste,  for whom a rocking chair is ready over here on the
quality end of the porch, overlooking the river.  Cool refreshing throat
lubrication is ever available from our perpetually renewed stocks of anything at
all, and the conversation covers everything but religion and politics in flowing
and erudite terms.

Secondly.. 
You may have noted some of our colonial friends chattering 
> Sorry about the long presentation and i'm very glad that I found you guys
> !!
> 
> P.S. Sorry about my english, My native language is french, don't hesitate
> to correct me if you see mistakes, I want to write english better :)
> 
> Rick.

There - you said it.  You want to write english better.  The clue is in the
name,  English.  From England. From whence so much civilisation spread across
the world - after we had slaughtered any inhabitants, of course.  The only place
for good advice oin the matter is from this side of the Atlantic.
You can tell we’re more sophisticated than what our colonial cousins are,
because no one had the good grace to mention that, unlike French, the verb comes
first - so “I want to write English better”   would be “I want to write better
English”
Now, given that our English court had French as the official language after we
were invaded, I have no idea why we did that, perhaps the many traps we have in
English is just so we can tell when someone ‘isn’t from round here’
Not that I care, I’m fro’ Yorkshire, so most of my language is a hangover from
the Viking invaders, with a bit of Scots here and there, and some Anglo-Saxon.

But, whatever the language, the sentiment is the same -  You’re welcome here.  
Incidentally, I once sent a galootaclaus victim some beer and elephant dung.
Its not the value that matters.
oh, for the avoidance of doubt, the dung came with seed for a hardwood -
(perfect growing medium)  and the bottle of fine english beer was to while away
the time whilst waiting for your timber to grow. The beer would have been “Old
Peculiar” probably, as the name suits us - and it’s a fine beer on draught,
especially at the ‘Red Lion’ on Blakey Ridge.

Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot
in Northumbria

- and of course, we all have a common code of speech here anyway, made of
numbers, tooth counts, grit sizes, and friendly banter.
263782 Gye Greene <gyegreene@g...> 2017‑11‑03 Re: Free old box knife w/out retractable blade
Kirk, Don, and others:  good points about tool organization.

Partly this is just my tiny way of sending tools I ain't never gonna use
back into the wild.  ;)


I also have about eight near-identical backsaws -- and about eight very
similar TPI crosscut saws -- that I probably need to sort through and give
away about half, if not more.

The hammers, however, totally stay.

This --
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0YtyQRaE-s/UePtEG50OeI/AAAAAAAABeY/tnBZcXJS
DS4/s1600/hamrs.JPG">https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0YtyQRaE-s/UePtEG50OeI/AAAAAAAA
BeY/tnBZcXJSDS4/s1600/hamrs.JPG
--  is about half of my stash of hammers:  I found another stash of them
after I took the photo, and couldn't be bothered to re-shoot.  And that
tally excludes about six mallets, which I claim to be distinct from
"hammers".   (More hammers than some Galoots; fewer than others.)


--Travis
263859 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑12 Re: website tool descriptions
On 2017-11-11 7:54 PM, Derek Cohen wrote:
> Don asked
>
> 
> Yes it is you:)
>
> The blade is skewed. Not a lot, tho’. Look at the sides of the blade
(different pics) - one side is wider than the other. Look at the sole/mouth
carefully. The angle from which the picture was taken reduces the skew, but it
is there. Zoom in. You will see it.
>
> Regards from Perth
>
> Derek
>
> https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/rare-
skewed-norris-no-18-shoulder-plane-
77016u">https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/rare-skewed-
norris-no-18-shoulder-plane-77016u  <https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections/whats-new/products/rare-skewed-
norris-no-18-shoulder-plane-77016u">https://www.jimbodetools.com/collections
/whats-new/products/rare-skewed-norris-no-18-shoulder-plane-77016u>
>
Way too subtle for me. Looking at the pic of the sole with the image 
zoomed, it seems to me that the edges of the mouth are parallel to the 
trailing edge of the sole. That says to me there's no skewing.

FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263860 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑11‑12 Re: website tool descriptions
What he said.  Skewing is usually in the 20-25° range and if this is skewed it
is only a couple of degrees.

Ed Minch
263861 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2017‑11‑12 Re: website tool descriptions
Yeah, what would be the purpose of a 3 degree skew?  I don’t think this
plane satisfies the usual definition of what I would consider a skew
plane.  I think this was simply an error.
Cheers from Frigid Montréal (on the last morning of the conference)
Claudio
263877 Joshua Clark <jclark@h...> 2017‑11‑12 Re: website tool descriptions
Did anyone try to ask Jim? I'm sure he would tell you if it's skewed
or if they description is in error.

Josh
263884 Peter McBride <peter_mcbride@b...> 2017‑11‑12 Re: website tool descriptions
I've about half a dozen skew mouth rebate shoulder type planes, and one of the
hardest things to do is get a picture that shows the skew, other than taking the
pic directly Square to the base. One lovely little skew Mathieson came to me
because "even I" thought it was straight from all the pics on evilbay. I wanted
it for the tiny size...On opening it up I saw the blade packed separate and
thought what dummy sharpened that!!
Cheers,
Peter
263889 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑12 Re: Ozone and musty antique furniture
On 2017-11-12 12:40 PM, Michael Parrish wrote:
> I have a few antique wooden furniture items, including a 80-100 year old
thread cabinet that I inherited from my dear grandmother.  They've unfortunately
been living in my garage for the last year because I have a musty odor that I
can't seem to get rid of. Strictly

Not sure this will work, but it would be cheap and easy to try. Remove 
the cabinet from the garage. Fill the cabinet drawers with dry, loosely 
crumpled clean newspaper. Give it some time, then replace the newspaper. 
If this brings little joy, build a plastic tent around the cabinet, and 
put saucers of baking soda in the drawers and under the cabinet. 
Maximize the surface area of the baking soda exposed to the air. Replace 
baking soda after a week or so. If that doesn't do it, try to get your 
hands on some activated carbon, and use it the same way as the baking soda.

IF that fails too, you might consider resorting to the expensive option

http://conservationresources.com/Main/section_15/section15_09.htm

FWIW

Don, who once had success with newspaper & baking soda

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
263890 William Ghio <bghio@m...> 2017‑11‑13 Re: Ozone and musty antique furniture
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> On 2017-11-12 12:40 PM, Michael Parrish wrote:
>> I have a few antique wooden furniture items, including a 80-100 year old
thread cabinet that I inherited from my dear grandmother.  They've unfortunately
been living in my garage for the last year because I have a musty odor that I
can't seem to get rid of. Strictly
> 
> Not sure this will work, but it would be cheap and easy to try. Remove the
cabinet from the garage. Fill the cabinet drawers with dry, loosely crumpled
clean newspaper. Give it some time, then replace the newspaper. If this brings
little joy, build a plastic tent around the cabinet, and put saucers of baking
soda in the drawers and under the cabinet. Maximize the surface area of the
baking soda exposed to the air. Replace baking soda after a week or so. If that
doesn't do it, try to get your hands on some activated carbon, and use it the
same way as the baking soda.
> 
> IF that fails too, you might consider resorting to the expensive option
> 
> http://conservationresources.com/Main/section_15/section15_09.htm
> 

I had such an issue and was recommended to flush w/ vinegar and then trays of
ground coffee. Took a while and another pound of coffee, but it worked.

Bill
263922 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2017‑11‑13 Re: Interesting video on wooden mitre plane
On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 12:40 PM,  wrote:

> I was quite interested in this, but I think I'll build a smoother first.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mfd_YmOI2M



 Steve Knight built those mouth closers into his planes. [ I just picked up
a used Jointer last week (Thanks Joe) to add to the fleet]

Here's the mouth of my smoother.  His you just slide up, rather than plane
the back side.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-gnWJqwP

And the underside of the same plane
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-RQDG8DZ

-- 
Kirk Eppler, just finishing lunch and a presentation with minutes to spare.
263923 <gtgrouch@r...> 2017‑11‑13 Re: Interesting video on wooden mitre plane
That has to leave a fabulous surface. Can you read a newspaper through the
shavings?

Thanks for sharing, Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA

(who now has yet another tool on the 'to find' list)
---- Kirk Eppler  wrote: 

=============
On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 12:40 PM,  wrote:

> I was quite interested in this, but I think I'll build a smoother first.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mfd_YmOI2M



 Steve Knight built those mouth closers into his planes. [ I just picked up
a used Jointer last week (Thanks Joe) to add to the fleet]

Here's the mouth of my smoother.  His you just slide up, rather than plane
the back side.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-gnWJqwP

And the underside of the same plane
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Planes/i-RQDG8DZ

-- 
Kirk Eppler, just finishing lunch and a presentation with minutes to spare.
263953 Darrell & Kathy <larchmont@s...> 2017‑11‑15 Re: website tool descriptions
Galoots
nothing to add except a digression, down memory lane...

A fair number of years ago a few of us local Galoots were at a
tool auction, and there were DOZENS of shoulder planes.
One of them was skewed, and yeah, it was like 20-25 degrees.
Really obvious.
As the auctioneer worked his way through the shoulder planes
he was going on choice in order.  So if you won lot X you had to
say how many you wanted at that price, and then they would
move on to the next unsold lot number.  A bit confusing for some
but not for Craig.  He noted the lot# of the skewed plane, and
bid on the one just before it.  The auctioneer says "How many?"
and Craig says quite deliberately "Two please".  The handler
picked up the pair of planes and everyone saw the very obvious
skewed mouth.  A chorus of groans erupted from the bidders
who had all been waiting on this lot.  We bin had.

Nicely played, Craig.  Nicely played.


On 12/11/2017 4:49 AM, Ed Minch wrote:
> What he said.  Skewing is usually in the 20-25° range and if this is  > skewed
it is only a couple of degrees. > > Ed Minch > > > > >> On Nov 12,
2017, at 1:50 AM, Don Schwartz  wrote: >> >> Way too subtle for 
me. Looking at the pic of the sole with the >> image zoomed, it seems to me that
the edges of the mouth are >> parallel to the trailing edge of the sole. That 
says to me there's >> no skewing. >> >> FWIW >> >> Don >
-- 
Darrell LaRue
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
263958 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2017‑11‑15 Re: website tool descriptions
Darrell & Kathy wrote:
> Galoots
> nothing to add except a digression, down memory lane...
>
> A fair number of years ago a few of us local Galoots were at a
> tool auction, and there were DOZENS of shoulder planes.
> One of them was skewed, and yeah, it was like 20-25 degrees.
> Really obvious.
> As the auctioneer worked his way through the shoulder planes
> he was going on choice in order.  So if you won lot X you had to
> say how many you wanted at that price, and then they would
> move on to the next unsold lot number.  A bit confusing for some
> but not for Craig.  He noted the lot# of the skewed plane, and
> bid on the one just before it.  The auctioneer says "How many?"
> and Craig says quite deliberately "Two please".  The handler
> picked up the pair of planes and everyone saw the very obvious
> skewed mouth.  A chorus of groans erupted from the bidders
> who had all been waiting on this lot.  We bin had.
>
> Nicely played, Craig.  Nicely played.

In fairness the auctioneer made a HUGE mistake. Craig merely
exploited it. The process the auctioneer invoked is called (in the UK)
selling "with the option".

It's often used when selling (say) 30 pieces of timber.

(It can be important to know this phrase, and what it means, when attending an
auction)

   BugBear
263959 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑11‑15 Re: website tool descriptions
Her in the mid-Atlantic they offer “choice” based on the whole group.  If there
is one item that is exceptional, it drives the price for the first round, and
the winning bid can take as many out of the group as she wants.  I recently
bought a Swan drawknife out of a group of about 75 laid out on a table - the
first bid was $60 IIRC, by the time it got to $10 fI was in, and later they were
going in lots of 5 for $20.

Ed Minch
264045 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑25 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
On 2017-11-25 2:15 PM, bridger@b... wrote:
> charge, even the residual one that inevitably results from being hung
> from a magnetic tool bar. Stray metal particles and all that,
> dontchaknow.


Those sharp bits of steel can do a lot of harm to your fingers if they 
get attached to a chisel, for instance.

And as I learned the other day, those rare earth magnets can do 
considerable damage on their own, not just by pinching, but by breaking 
pinching and cutting all at once. Ouch!

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
264067 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑27 Re: re metal files storage.
Eric

As a student, I worked at Dominion Bridge in Winnipeg over several 
summers , and one 17 month stint between 1st & 2nd years - a heavy steel 
plant with some 500 or more employees, working 3 shifts most times - now 
sadly an occasional movie set, I'm told. My father was Lead Machinist 
for many years and then Foreman of the Machine Shop. Each Machinist, 
Lathe Operator or Mechanic had his own set of tools in a chest or 
chests. But the supply of tools of all kinds for the factory was in the 
Stores Dept, where all manner of tools and supplies were stored in ranks 
of open wooden bin shelving as high as a man could reach, several aisles 
of them. Basically just ranks of tall, painted wooden units with shelves 
of varied length, back to back and side by each Everything was to be had 
there - including but not limited to boots, gloves, hardhats, tape 
measures and ends, wrenches and hammers, brooms, shovels, brushes & 
dustpans, welding and painting equipment & supplies, drilling fluids, 
paints and compressor equipment, acids for the pickling tank, zinc bars 
for galvanizing, hoist chains, pry bars, all sorts of cleaning supplies, 
rivets, nuts & bolts, stamp sets, Machine Shop supplies, exotic steels 
and other metals for machining, electrical & hydraulic equipment and 
parts, belts for some of the big old punches and presses, punches, 
drills, teeth inserts for big cold saws, clamps of various sorts, steel 
strapping and machines, tips for the burning machines, office supplies 
for the Foremen, and likely a supply of girlie calendars! Naturally, 
heavy stuff was stored on pallets. Everything out in the open for easy 
access. But the only folks who could get in there were the Stores staff, 
fork lift operators, Foremen and Managers.

Don
264068 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑11‑27 Re: re metal files storage.
Don

Will you inherit one of each?

Ed Minch
264072 Cliff <rohrabacher@e...> 2017‑11‑27 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
I hate magnetized tools.  I hate it so much that I got myself a few 
hundred yards of magnet wire and made a nice big demagnetizing 
platter.   It's so powerful that ya gotta leave yer wallet  about 2 feet 
away, but it does the job.
264077 Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> 2017‑11‑27 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
I assume you need time for a proper write-up. Would love all the details.

Matthew Groves
Springfield, MO
264078 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2017‑11‑27 Re: re metal files storage.
Yep, I also worked in an Ornamental Iron factory with hundreds of employees
in Toronto.  Only the Foremen and Managers could get into Central Tool
Supply, probably because everyone would probably just help themselves to
anything that wasn't welded down.  I was just a teenager who didn't know
shit, but sometimes even stuff that was welded down would disappear!
(Including some of the welding machines!)
 This was way before Craig's List and the like, and there were always guys
selling stuff cheap from their cars.  Nobody ever asked 'where did this
come from' when buying a quality tool or cutter for pennies on the dollar
though, eh?

   I've even had issues as the boss of my own place, having to institute
rules like double locks  for the narcotics safe (as in two nurses have to
sign for each drug removal from the safe), and I can't tell you how many
hundred dollar pairs of scissors and needle holders have been "lost in the
laundry".   I guess people don't think of it as stealing if the person who
is robbed has a nicer car or a nicer house?
  One good story:  The guys who broke into my clinic and cracked open the
safe got caught about two or three years later- the cops took fingerprints
at the scene and one of the guys got arrested years later for something
unrelated, and his fingerprint check turned on some kind of alarm.  This
guy had left his finger prints all over some backup CD's in my safe
(remember those?) while he was looking for cash.  He gave up the other guy
in exchange for something as I recall (the cop called me- I was
impressed!).  Sometimes cops come through- Hey- if there are any cops on
this list- thanks! This was maybe 20 years ago, but that feeling of
violation never really goes away until the persons responsible are caught.

Cheers
Claudio
264085 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2017‑11‑28 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
> On Nov 27, 2017, at 11:37 , Matthew Groves  wrote:
> 
> I assume you need time for a proper write-up. Would love all the details.

Same. Oldtool related insofar as the GITs have magnetized
some of my tools, since I was foolish enough to leave
magnets lying around the bench. Previous advice (here?)
to whack the tool with a hammer was ineffective.

-- 
Adam
264087 Chuck Taylor 2017‑11‑28 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
What is the downside to having a wood chisel magnetized? I store many of mine on
a magnetic rack and haven't noticed a downside yet.
Chuck Taylornorth of Seattle



> On Nov 27, 2017, at 11:37 , Matthew Groves  wrote:
> 
> I assume you need time for a proper write-up. Would love all the details.

Same. Oldtool related insofar as the GITs have magnetized
some of my tools, since I was foolish enough to leave
magnets lying around the bench....

-- 
Adam

   

|  | Virus-free. www.avast.com  |
264088 "Adam R. Maxwell" <amaxwell@m...> 2017‑11‑28 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
> On Nov 27, 2017, at 19:24 , Chuck Taylor  wrote:
> 
> What is the downside to having a wood chisel magnetized? I store many of mine
on a magnetic rack and haven't noticed a downside yet.

Picking up metal filings? That's what my screwdrivers
do, at least, and it drives me crazy when there's a
glob stuck to the blade. "Clean your bench, savage,"
might be an option, but let's not get carried away.

Adam
(currently unpacking the shop after a move, so this is
even more academic than usual)
264089 Erik Levin 2017‑11‑28 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
Chuck Taylor asked:> What is the downside to having a wood chisel magnetized? 
The downside to having any tool magnetized is that they will attract and hold
chips and grindings of any ferromagnetic material. With a chisel, the risk is
then grindings from dressing the edge staying on the surface to be deposited on
or into the surface being worked, and larger chips may hang in the surface and
then damage the edge. Similar risks hold for plane irons.


Is it a major concern? Probably not in practice. Is it a concern? yup. Is it
annoying for those of us that work metal as well as cellulose/lignin composites,
meaning that there are often chips and fines of ferrous material around? Quite.

As for files, a magnetized file is essentially impossible to keep clean enough
to do fine work. The gullets will fill with near-unremovable ferromagnetic
detritus. A demag operation is needed to get the file clean.


*** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address
264094 curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2017‑11‑28 Re: file storage.....as in metal files
> > What is the downside to having a wood chisel magnetized?
> The downside to having any tool magnetized is that they will attract and
hold chips and grindings of any ferromagnetic material.

Theoretically perhaps, but I've noted that the good Mary May keeps her
gouges on magnetic strips on her shop wall.  Maybe it's not an issue that
close to the equator, where the velocity due to the earth's rotation is
larger, making the magnetic domains dizzy and disoriented.

Just a guess.

cur - enjoying the day, having spent some time packing and addressing a
package to be sent to that part of the world.
264095 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑11‑28 Re: (no subject)
On 2017-11-28 7:38 AM, gtgrouch@r... wrote:
> Found something interesting on youtube. It's a bit too ambitious for me!
>
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueFiy-uxI4Y
>
> Still, it's nice to see that some skills are still around.


Tremendous. I was especially impressed with the attention to aesthetics 
in their work - the shaping of the dugout and the skillful texturing of 
surfaces. That paddle was simply gorgeous!

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
264096 <gtgrouch@r...> 2017‑11‑28 Re: Dugout Canoe
I'm an idiot. Here's a repost with subject. Sorry about that. -GK
264154 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑12‑08 Re: Yew carving and weird email
On 2017-12-07 4:12 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
> Here is what I was making. Has anyone ever seen this tool head? It has 
> a patent marking.
> No idea what the inventor was thinking, maybe a fire tool? I am 
> planning to use it for close quarter but heavy gardening tasks.

> http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/handlec
arving2.jpg">http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/handl
ecarving2.jpg
>

Scott:

Maybe it's the original Hoe Dag 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Garden/page.aspx?p=69499&cat=2,44823&ap=1


FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
264162 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑12‑10 Re: I've finally got one bowl. or is it ball?
On 2017-12-09 2:53 PM, yorkshireman@y... wrote:
> Yes, after years and years, We’ve just been up in the Borders  (Reiver
country, Paddy)   and came across an antique place which had some forlorn wooden
bowls - 3 of them. and I gave up the search.
>
> SWMBO was buying a bit of cut glass, and I managed to tack one bowl onto the
deal.
>
> So now I have a lignum vitae bowl  -  For our American members, bowls does not
have lanes, ten pins, any pins in fact.  It is played on a grassy square, one
with a camber, using wooden bowls which are weighted to not run true.  You are
given 2 or 4 bowls, and have to judge the camber of the green and the bias of
your bowl and the degree of friction of the grass be it wet or dry.
>   A game of skill, relaxation, sunshine, good ale, and fine talk.   Too
important to be interrupted for approaching Armadas bent on invasion and all
that sort of thing.
>
> Anyway, the point is that a redundant, wooden bowl, is almost a mallet head.
Not many of them about these days, as they are made of a composition material
these days.   Way back when I lived in Suffolk, and set up shop in the one room
of our cottage (Can’t think why she married me)  I worked at a place which had
been a pub.  It still had its bowling green, and a greenkeeprs shed, and the
locals kept and used the green.  In the shed were a number (lots) of ancient
redundant wooden bowls.  We used them at lunchtimes in summer.  I didn’t know
then that they were of value, a dying breed, and I could have been given them
for nothing.
>
> Fast forward a half century - no, less - my Mother in Law was a county bowls
player, and asked her, as she went around so many bowling greens to keep an eye
out for old wooden bowls “Yes, they often have some.” she said - but bowls never
came to visit with her.
>
> but now I have a one of my own.  And I have a question for the porch.
>
> Does anyone have any knowledge or advice about making a dead bowl into a fine
and living again mallet?
>
>
> Richard Wilson
> Northumbrian Galoot

Richard:

I too have some bowls - eight of them ! The first set, a ladies set I 
believe, of small diameter, came from an antique shop at a tolerable 
price after several rounds of bargaining.  I have used part of one to 
repair some old tools. The second set came about because I felt the 
first ones were too small for mallet-making, though in retrospect, a 
heavy, smaller mallet might be nice! This set came bus freight from a 
friend of a friend, a former bowler who had given up the game and was 
moving cross-country. I got them for the price of a small donation to 
his bowls club! I have yet to do anything with them. I like to think 
they're acclimating. Eventually one or two will become mallets.

The thing I have noticed is that these bowls of mine invariably have the 
pith running right through them. And although some show minor splits, 
they are all intact bowls. So when I find the round to-it over in the 
turnings department, I will honour grain orientation. Also, the one I 
cut for restoration was positively greasy stuff, so I would incline to a 
handle joint which gives some mechanical strength. I'd be interested to 
know what wood you choose for the handle, as well as how the lignum 
turns - i.e. gouge & skew or scraper?

You might find the Peter Maddex Ball-o-matic 2000 handy for holding the 
bowl at some point.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
264255 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑12‑15 Re: Venice Arsenal
On 2017-12-15 3:13 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> The idea of building a ship in a day - even a small one - has been poking at
me for the last few days.  There are just too many tasks to be completed to fit
them into a day,  So I thought about the Liberty ships of WWII.  There were a
lot of yards building these things, and even though they got it down to about 40
days start to finish, they could say they were completing 3 a day.
>
> So maybe the one-day represented how often one was finished, not how long it
took to build one.

Yes. It's clear from the links I sent that they had a production line 
going ( on a canal ), as well as specialist departments making rope, 
oars, masts and other components.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness
264389 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑12‑23 Re: auger forging
On 2017-12-22 9:53 PM, John Leyden wrote:
> There’s a video of a modern factory making augers at:https://www.yout
ube.com/watch?v=7GdQJCuLjSg">at:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GdQJCuLjSg
<https://www.youtube.com/w
atch?v=7GdQJCuLjSg>
>
> Even so, it still seems to require a substantial amount of hand work.


Indeed. It seems to follow very closely the description I've read. BTW I 
realized last night that I was confused. Tthe double twist style may 
actually be easier to make than the solid center Irwin style. And, the 
single twist hollow style may be easiest of the three.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264409 gary may 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Yeah Don, and GGs--
   I may be dim, but I've been puzzled for years on how (and why) they do that
solid-center auger. I have several sets of vintage Irwins and some solid-center
bits in large diameters made recently with bitstocks *designed* to be sawn off
if desired (revealing a hex shank)  but I still don't get the concept.  The
drawn-out and twisted rod seems perfectly adequate and super-simple. What am I
missing?
                     EMWTK--gam in OlyWA/USA
 
     PS Happy New Year to all galoots, everywhere. 

How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen

      From: Don Schwartz 
 To: oldtools@s... 
 Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 6:30 AM
 Subject: Re: [OldTools] auger forging
   
On 2017-12-22 9:53 PM, John Leyden wrote:
> There’s a video of a modern factory making augers at:https://www.yout
ube.com/watch?v=7GdQJCuLjSg">at:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GdQJCuLjSg
<https://www.youtube.com/w
atch?v=7GdQJCuLjSg>
>
> Even so, it still seems to require a substantial amount of hand work.


Indeed. It seems to follow very closely the description I've read. BTW I 
realized last night that I was confused. Tthe double twist style may 
actually be easier to make than the solid center Irwin style. And, the 
single twist hollow style may be easiest of the three.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder

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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

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OldTools@s...
264410 Erik Levin 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Gary May inquired:

>I've been puzzled for years on how (and why) they do that
>solid-center auger. I have several sets of vintage Irwins and some solid-center
>bits in large diameters made recently with bitstocks *designed* to be sawn off
>if desired (revealing a hex shank)  but I still don't get the concept.  The
>drawn-out and twisted rod seems perfectly adequate and super-simple.

I know enough about how things are made to be aware of my ignorance and avoid
making wild guesses. As to the why, I am not similarly encumbered. SO, my
thoughts on the why:


1) chip clearance (single flute types)- The solid center I have are all single
flute (On those with a second cutting edge, the second ends after one turn or
so). I know there are other types, but these clear chips very well.

b) The core adds stiffness. It any point along a twisted bit, the thin way is
very thin, and the bits do flex a fair bit. I would guess that the solid core
are also more resistant to wind-up due to the additional axial strength. With a
brace, the flex in use can be annoying, and with a modern powered drive (I don't
have one at home, but at an old job we powered the larger machines with flat
belts), the wind-up can be significant. When they wind-up enough, twisted bits
tend to do the 'phone cord' thing and knot up.


Yup. 
 *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply
address(es) may not match the originating address
264411 John Leyden <leydenjl@g...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Gary inquires about the rationale for solid center augers.

My (possibly incorrect/incomplete) understanding is that solid center augers are
supposed to be less likely to flex when drilling very long/deep holes.
Therefore, I infer that they may also be able to handle more torque than a twist
auger bit might (as when driven by a power drill). As far as how they are made I
have no knowledge, but they look like they could be either milled from solid bar
or forged/swaged.

On a related note, another galoot asked me off-list whether the company that had
the auger factory in the video I mentioned the other day was still in business.
Apparently it is not. The company was Clico, of Sheffield, and it looks like it
went out of business almost exactly three years ago.   :-(

John
264412 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Ten years ago they were the only manufacturer we could find of reasonably
priced, new spoon bits - so I have a set.  I’ll bet there are more makers now.

Ed Minch
264413 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
> On Dec 24, 2017, at 3:27 PM, John Leyden  wrote:
> 
> My (possibly incorrect/incomplete) understanding is that solid center augers
are supposed to be less likely to flex when drilling very long/deep holes.
Therefore, I infer that they may also be able to handle more torque than a twist
auger bit might (as when driven by a power drill).

The augers used for deep holes on ships are, oddly enough, called ship augers.
Usually use a gi-gundous drill motor on them, but they still have no solid
center:

https://www.toolnut.com/milwaukee-48-13-3000-3pc-18-ship-auger-bit-set.
html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiAvf3RBRBBEiwAH5XYqKt4daLCnyWTTVv24-
GyVZVyRTIAg4MuyO1aioQql6BHWbhsDE_UzRoCza8QAvD_BwE">https://www.toolnut.com/milwa
ukee-48-13-3000-3pc-18-ship-auger-bit-set.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=
CjwKCAiAvf3RBRBBEiwAH5XYqKt4daLCnyWTTVv24-GyVZVyRTIAg4MuyO1aioQql6BHWbhsDE_UzRoC
za8QAvD_BwE <https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-7-8-in-Ship-
Auger-Bit-53439/100662405?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|google|&mid=sUh3yTzF9|dc_mtid_8903
7lm25188_pcrid_118170493868_pkw__pmt__product_100662405_slid_&gclid=CjwKCAiAvf3R
BRBBEiwAH5XYqNhwFOFiBtmeIkNzmoPu99DB1aZ1tdZnZu437HNVY0e_alGVxV8fpRoCHP8QAvD_BwE"
>https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-7-8-in-Ship-Auger-Bit-53439/100662405?c
m_mmc=Shopping|THD|google|&mid=sUh3yTzF9|dc_mtid_89037lm25188_pcrid_118170493868
_pkw__pmt__product_100662405_slid_&gclid=CjwKCAiAvf3RBRBBEiwAH5XYqNhwFOFiBtmeIkN
zmoPu99DB1aZ1tdZnZu437HNVY0e_alGVxV8fpRoCHP8QAvD_BwE>

The description says they are rated for use with an impact driver - although
why?  The barefoot bits commonly used on ships are just as long and also have
this same single twist configuration.

Ed Minch
264414 gary may 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Hi John--
  I bought one of those Clico spoons for a song at a garage sale just before I
moved to Olympia, about three years ago.  I expect it'll be turning up soon.  :)
I think you guys who say "stronger" on the solid center augers are probably
right.  I have never twisted an auger to the point of damage, as well as I can
recall, but I can see it happening in the telephone pole boring trade, or in
railroad and shipbuilding, to be sure. So how are they made?  Turned out of
solid stock on a lathe?  Seems wasteful. And impossible, but machining throws on
a crankshaft seems impossible too.                hnyggs---gam
 

How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen

      From: John Leyden 
 To: OldTools List  
 Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 12:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [OldTools] auger forging
   
Gary inquires about the rationale for solid center augers.

My (possibly incorrect/incomplete) understanding is that solid center augers are
supposed to be less likely to flex when drilling very long/deep holes.
Therefore, I infer that they may also be able to handle more torque than a twist
auger bit might (as when driven by a power drill). As far as how they are made I
have no knowledge, but they look like they could be either milled from solid bar
or forged/swaged.

On a related note, another galoot asked me off-list whether the company that had
the auger factory in the video I mentioned the other day was still in business.
Apparently it is not. The company was Clico, of Sheffield, and it looks like it
went out of business almost exactly three years ago.  :-(

John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

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OldTools@s...
264415 "bilcol" <bilcol@b...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Here is at least one way of making solid center augers (machining).  You
tube is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oknH3a74ueo

Bill
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all

-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@s...] On Behalf Of John
Leyden
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:27 PM
To: OldTools List 
Subject: Re: [OldTools] auger forging

Gary inquires about the rationale for solid center augers.

My (possibly incorrect/incomplete) understanding is that solid center augers
are supposed to be less likely to flex when drilling very long/deep holes.
Therefore, I infer that they may also be able to handle more torque than a
twist auger bit might (as when driven by a power drill). As far as how they
are made I have no knowledge, but they look like they could be either milled
from solid bar or forged/swaged.

On a related note, another galoot asked me off-list whether the company that
had the auger factory in the video I mentioned the other day was still in
business. Apparently it is not. The company was Clico, of Sheffield, and it
looks like it went out of business almost exactly three years ago.   :-(

John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

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OldTools@s...
264416 John Leyden <leydenjl@g...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
The bits we used at Ma Bell looked quite similar to your ship auger and came in
long lengths for drilling through the floors and walls of homes to run wires.
The single twist would carry a wire through the bored hole too, which was nice.
They could flex quite a lot and we often used that to our advantage in crawl
spaces and attics. I suppose you have even less room to move about aboard ship!
I recall seeing some broken single twist bits but I presume they can only have
failed after a period of severe abuse bordering on attempted suicide. I can’t
imagine needing an impact driver for one, either.

John
264417 John Leyden <leydenjl@g...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
Cool!

Reminds me of the multimillion dollar CNC machines they use nowadays for making
baseball bats.

https://www.youtube.com/wa
tch?v=ov3awRWfVJc ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov3awRWfVJc>

Not sure I’d care to stand too close to either machine given the speed with
which the shavings fly off them.

John

Merry Christmas, all.
264418 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
While it's sad that Clico went out of business, I think I can understand why.
The video illustrates lots of labor intensive hand work the make one unit.
Having spent lots of time watching How It's Made, I feel confident that there
are automated computer controlled machines that can do this same work more
quickly and with greater precision. Perhaps retooling and retraining were too
expensive.

Merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous New Year to you all!

John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Dec 24, 2017, at 3:27 PM, John Leyden mailto:leydenjl@g...">mailto:leydenjl@g...>> wrote:

On a related note, another galoot asked me off-list whether the company that had
the auger factory in the video I mentioned the other day was still in business.
Apparently it is not. The company was Clico, of Sheffield, and it looks like it
went out of business almost exactly three years ago.   :-(
264419 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: auger forging
My guess is this is why Clico went out of business

John

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

On Dec 24, 2017, at 4:21 PM, bilcol mailto:bilcol@b...>> wrote:

Here is at least one way of making solid center augers (machining).  You
tube is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oknH3a74ueo

Bill
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all

-----Original Message-----
From: OldTools [mailto:oldtools-bounces@s...] On Behalf Of John
Leyden
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:27 PM
To: OldTools List mailto:oldtools@s...>>
Subject: Re: [OldTools] auger forging

Gary inquires about the rationale for solid center augers.

My (possibly incorrect/incomplete) understanding is that solid center augers
are supposed to be less likely to flex when drilling very long/deep holes.
Therefore, I infer that they may also be able to handle more torque than a
twist auger bit might (as when driven by a power drill). As far as how they
are made I have no knowledge, but they look like they could be either milled
from solid bar or forged/swaged.

On a related note, another galoot asked me off-list whether the company that
had the auger factory in the video I mentioned the other day was still in
business. Apparently it is not. The company was Clico, of Sheffield, and it
looks like it went out of business almost exactly three years ago.   :-(

John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

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OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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OldTools@s...
264421 Tony Blanks <dynnyrne@i...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: Clico Tools - was auger forging
On 25/12/2017 7:27 AM, John Leyden wrote in part:

> On a related note, another galoot asked me off-list whether the company that
had the auger factory in the video I mentioned the other day was still in
business. Apparently it is not. The company was Clico, of Sheffield, and it
looks like it went out of business almost exactly three years ago.   :-(
>
> John

Probably 25 so years ago, back in the days of airmailed letters rather 
than today's corporate websites and email I had reason to contact Clico 
(Sheffield) Tooling Ltd, chasing a heavy  replacement iron for a Preston 
bench plane. They were helpful and prompt, supplying the blade I was 
looking for with a catalogue of the company's products - mostly machine 
tools, and pleasant letter and invoice showing me what the price of the 
iron was and asking me to pay within 30 days!  Nice folk.  Along with 
the Sterling bank draft (remember those) I sent off a thank you letter 
containing a few questions, since the line of Clifton bench and rebate 
planes seemed rather removed from their main game which was the 
manufacture of precision rotary tools for the aerospace industry.  The 
response was that Clico was a family firm and one of the Directors was a 
passionate wood-worker, and had convinced the other directors that a 
line of premium quality tools would be saleable and profitable. Seeing 
the prices for the planes even then, I suspected that "marginally 
profitable at best" would have been  a more accurate summation of the 
prospects.

Clico (Sheffield) Tooling Limited was established as a private limited 
company with share capital on 1 June 1983, for the purpose of 
"Manufacture Of Tools"  with its registered office in Sheffield. The 
company  had one director at the time it was dissolved on 11 August 
2017, did not have any subsidiaries and had ceased to trade well before 
that date.  August 2017 was just the formal burying of the last 
vestiges. The Company's accounts were described as "Total Exemption 
Small", whatever that means, but the description doesn't make the 
company sound either large or prosperous.

The fate of Clico is a sad one, being broken up and sold to 2 other 
Sheffield companies: Lidster Paragon Tool Co. Ltd  and Thomas Flynn and Co.

 From the web at: http://lidsters.com/about/clico

'In 2014 Lidsters purchased the aerospace and double glazing division of 
Clico. All the staff and manufacturing equipment were transferred to the 
Lidsters site in Killamarsh, Sheffield.'

'Clico can trace its origins back to the 19th Century as part of William 
Ridgway, a supplier of woodworking tools to furniture and cabinet 
makers. As the early aircraft were also made of wood its involvement in 
aircraft manufacture was a natural progression. It soon became a name on 
its own as the machine tool division of William Ridgeway in the 1950s. 
In 1983 there was a management buyout of the company when it became 
Clico (Sheffield) Tooling Ltd.  The Clico brand had 3 main product 
groups, of which it was particularly well known and trusted throughout 
the aerospace and double glazing industries. It was for this part of the 
business that Lidsters have taken on Clico.'

"Lidsters vision is to dominate the UK Aerospace industry, becoming the 
specialist drill manufacturer offering exceptional technical support and 
service.'

Lidster's core business is the manufacture of HSS, HSCO and Carbide 
round cutting tools such as drills and reamers, so not much future for a 
line of archaic hand tools with that firm.

Fortunately the Clifton plane and shave line was bought up by Thomas 
Flynn and Co, another Sheffield family firm.  I recall Richard Wilson 
pointing us in their direction not long ago.  This firm's history is at:

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/History.html

and their Clifton planes, shaves and spare irons are at:

https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/CLIFTON.html

This is a great site to rummage through, as the firm makes or factors a 
wonderful range of unusual  and hard to find tools including turning 
saws and blades, pad saw handles and spare blades, musical saws, 
stone-cutting saws and saw screws and caps.

No connection with either Clico or Thos. Flinn and Co. other than as a 
long past very satisfied customer of both.

For what its worth the UK firm "Woodsmith' of 7-9 Claremont Road, 
Whitley Bay, Tyne and Wear, NE26 3TN 
http://woodsmithexperience.co.uk/shop/category/clico/ still offers Clico 
brand barrel eyed augers, solid centre augers and Jennings pattern 
augers along with chairmakers parallel spoon bits (though spoon bits are 
listed as out of stock, so no need to rush.).

Compliments of the Season to you all,

Tony B
Hobart, Tasmania
264422 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2017‑12‑24 Re: It's finally finally Christmas Eve day
On 2017-12-24 3:44 PM, curt seeliger wrote:
> the fourth file with a tight, ~15 degree
> angle -- a feather file? I've only seen one of these before, and it's well
> used, but for what I do not know. How are these intended to be used, and
> what other uses have folks found for these?

For sharpening the wickedly shaped teeth of Japanes saws. Also useful, I 
understand, for adjusting the screw points of augers. Maybe best done 
after making one side safe.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264423 "Dennis Heyza" <michigaloot@c...> 2017‑12‑25 Re: Clico Tools - was auger forging
> along with chairmakers parallel spoon bits (though spoon bits are listed as
out of stock, so no need to rush.).

While Clico is indeed no more, it should be noted that Lee Valley now supplies
spoon bits.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=57713&cat=1,180,42240,4553
4,42240,45531,42240,45534,42240,45534,42240,45533,42240,45534,42240,45531,42240,
45534,42240,45534,42240,53317&ap=1">http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p
=57713&cat=1,180,42240,45534,42240,45531,42240,45534,42240,45534,42240,45533,422
40,45534,42240,45531,42240,45534,42240,45534,42240,53317&ap=1

I have no experience with them as I own the forementioned Clico bits, but LV
certainly has a fine reputation.

Merry Christmas to one and all! 

Dennis Heyza - peeking out from under the porch after long silence
264425 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2017‑12‑25 Re: [SPAM?] Re: Clico Tools - was auger forging
Tony has beaten me to a reply about Clico, so I’ll just add a couple of bits of
trivia.

Recently I was needing a turning saw, and blinked at the prices, so I pursued a
blade only, which led me to the Thomas Flynn site.  As Tony says, fascinating to
look around it, and if I get to Sheffield with spare time I’ll definitely look
in there.  Seems to bea pleasantly old fashioned company, with personal
responses from the boss lady.
The blade arrived, and it’s in the spares drawer, awaiting a frame.  I found
another way around my problem cut.  At least I know where to go get some saw
files in future.

Clico took over the tooling - some of it, that has history going back to
Preston.  They reproduced the shoulder planes, and some of the bench planes.  I
purchased a Clifton blade for a 042 shoulder plane (medium width shoulder plane,
Jeff)  and was disappointed  by the finish, which seemed to have come freehand
from a linisher.  Thicker than a Record blade though, so probably excellent in
service.. Trouble was that I intended it to go in a Record, and the adjuster
slot didn’t work.  I could have modified it, and when the 042 wears out I may
spend the time. (had it maybe 20 years, so maybe another 50 to go) Clico

I also have a ‘stay-set’ cap iron.  Now I like the stay set design.  It does
what it says, it makes a quick swipe over an oilstone easy and efficient, and
keeps you in the business of planing longer between sharpening interruptions.
Their cap iron is precisely machined, but again, I felt the linishing let it
down.  Also, it is thicker than the originals, so a new screw is needed, and it
isn’t a drop in replacement.  Not an issue if you buy one of their planes I’m
sure, but we are all so accustomed to being able to swap a blade in and out
without a blink that it’s an unwanted irritation.
and of course, like the ‘new’ planes of today, they were priced so far above the
run of either old tools, or cheap imports, that their market was going to be
limited.  I’m fascinated at how some of the ‘new’ manufacturers can keep going,
and how they have the new makers thinking that you have to buy one, when fleabay
and car boot sales are awash with good quality old bench tools.

I’ll recommend that Flynn-Garlick site for its info on saw variations and so on
- read it whilst it exists.  I hope they go on existing.  - No affiliation -
just a happy customer, blah blah.

Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot, wishing good shavings to all of galootdom, 
and in Northumbria, happy now the year’s turned and we are enjoying the Mithras
season.
264429 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2017‑12‑25 Re: [SPAM?] Re: Clico Tools - was auger forging
> On Dec 25, 2017, at 3:55 AM, yorkshireman@y... wrote:
> 
> Clico took over the tooling - some of it, that has history going back to
Preston.


I saw the Clifton 311 shoulder plane on their site.  It is exactly like mu user
Record 311, which is a later version of the Preston 311.   Mine has no finish of
any kind on it - I take that back.  It is stamped “WAR FINISH”, so no finish is
apparently a finish,

And remember that Mythbusters proved you could polish a turd.

Ed Minch
264676 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑08 Re: Finished something
On 2018-01-08 9:32 AM, John M Johnston (jmjhnstn) wrote:
> Galoots assembled,
>
> I finished this jewelry cabinet just before Christmas as a gift for my wife.
Descriptions may be found with each photo.
>
> http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_copperminevis/Itemid,2/
place,thumbnails/album,787/">http://galootcentral.com/component/option,com_coppe
rminevis/Itemid,2/place,thumbnails/album,787/
>
> or
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y9kxj3h3


Lovely, but isn't there a rule discouraging the completion of projects?

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264680 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2018‑01‑08 Re: Finished something
Don,
The extreme need for a completed Christmas gift trumped that rule!!

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.


Lovely, but isn't there a rule discouraging the completion of projects?
264698 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑10 Re: When Good Squares Go Bad
On 2018-01-10 3:23 PM, Mick Dowling wrote:
> Or, you could simply get some blue masking tape and write 'wrong' on the
> un-square ones.

I have actually done something like that, on a 4-shield fixed bevel I 
bought years ago - and with blue masking tape! I think about trying to 
adjust it from time to time, but instead just put some tape on one side 
and hung it on a board where it looks shiny and cool.

Don, in -22C Calgary ( -7 for the unconverted )

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264706 Thomas Conroy 2018‑01‑11 Re: When Good Squares Go Bad
Micah Salb wrote:
"I am tired of squares that aren?t square.  I don?t understand how craftsmen of
yonder days did good work with squares that weren?t square!
"Are there reliable ways of squaring a square?"

You are probably demanding too much precision in your work. Thirty-five years
ago my binding teacher told me "The human eye is designed to forgive a great
deal around the general theme of squareness." If you look at 18th century books
the covers look just fine, but if you slap a protractor on them you will find
that plenty of those covers have corners that are five or ten degrees off.
Sometimes they are twenty degrees off, and you still don't notice it unless you
are looking for it. So chill out a bit. Take a stiff dose of whatever intoxicant
is still legal and suits your taste (My Great-Uncle Charley was a roofer. He
told me once that to do the work, you had to be drunk enough that the roof
looked flat to you; otherwise it wasn't safe. Fact.) If you can't see the
problem without precision measuring tools, then it doesn't matter.
Fit pieces to each other, not to a separate standard. Yeah, that was Maudsley's
great advance, the standard plane surface and so on. Fine, indeed necessary, for
machining metal. Not needed for wood, which is not a precision material. Get a
piece of wood planed to a crossection true to a hundredth of a degree and what
do you have? A piece of wood that is two degrees off after the next big
rainstorm.

Precision is nice, I suppose, but too much precision is a killer. Years ago I
saw a TV show where they were interviewing one of the ex-Nazi scientists who
ended up in Russia. A commissar came up to him at a reception and held up a
little vial. "Look at our Soviet plutonium," he said, "it is 99.9 per cent pure;
so you can see how much better it is than American plutonium. They can only make
90% pure." The ex-Nazi told the commissar----well, he said he told the
commissar, and I'm sure he wanted to: "The American plutonium is better. It
costs a tenth as much, and it blows up just as well." You're not a machinist,
are you? Why would you need a run-out of under .0002 inches in 6 inches?

Its a disease that attacks some people. Karl Holtey made beautiful infill planes
for a long time. I've seen one, handled it even if I remember correctly, didn't
have the chutzpah to ask its owner if I could try it. But Holtey wanted more and
more and more precision, and couldn't get it with the infill shimmying around
all over the place, so he got rid of the wood for his most mature designs. Ended
up with planes a lot uglier than the infills, and no better for working wood. I
like shimmying; I wouldn't want a Holtey-designed exotic dancer.

Back in the '80s someone wrote in a letter to Fine Woodworking: " 'Pretty close'
is not good enough for machines because they don't know how to be anything but
exact. With 'pretty close' machines become confused and their bearings heat up.
But man has always known what to do with 'pretty close.' He hits it with a
hammer, or puts in some shims, or changes the design, or adds some molding.
Man's ability to respond to 'pretty close' is precisely what makes him human and
vastly superior to machines. The ability to adapt to 'pretty close' makes human
work so much more pleasing and sought after than that of the machine...After
all, if God had wanted man to be perfect, he would not have invented wood
filler." [Thomas P. Sullivan to FWW #26, Jan/Feb. 1981, p. 4.]
Oh, you wanted practical advice? With a 10X magnifier and a hard, sharp pencil
the line-and-flip test will show you if a square is precise to .0008 over six
inches, and maybe .0004.----about half of Starrett's guarantee on their working
squares.  If a square won't pass this, get rid of it. Never buy a used square to
use it (c*ll*ct*ng them is another matter). Buy new, with a guarantee of
precision (BSC guaranteed machinists' squares are common and inexpensive) and
test a new square when you get it---send it back if it doesn't pass. Trying to
true up a used square is an extreme sport in itself. I've done it (once) and I
might do it again some day, just for the challenge, but if you want a square to
use, buy a new accurate one.

Or make your own of wood. It is actually surprisingly easy to make one, and easy
to true it before it is assembled, if you follow Chris Schwarz's method as shown
to St. Roy:
http://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-shop-try-square-christopher-schwarz/

I have two or three I made from rosewood offcuts, and I use them all the time,
for, of course, checking or for marking with a pencil. I keep steel squares for
use with a marking knife.
If precision really matters to you get a new Starrett or equivalent (the Swiss
company that bought Brown and Sharpe, or the Japanese one, or there is probably
someone in Germany) and keep it in a fitted case to check your working squares.
I believe the high-end firms will true a square that is out. Expensive,
probably, but if precision really matters to you....

I say I trued a steel square, by the way; well, this is maybe not quite right. I
worked away at one for six or eight years, getting it as good as I could and
having new problems crop up every time I corrected an old one. Finally I got fed
up and buried it in a drawer, still not satisfied with it. Five years later I
took it out to have another go, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with
it. Kept trying to figure out the last problem for a while, but finally I gave
in and started to use it. So that's my last bit of advice to you: put an
inaccurate square away in a drawer for a few years. Maybe it will correct
itself.
Tom Conroy
264714 Micah Salb <msalb@l...> 2018‑01‑11 Re: When Good Squares Go Bad
Dear Tom:

There is wisdom in your words.  While I’m not sure that I will accept your
Great-Uncle Charley’s advice, some of the rest of what you wrote seems worth
taking in.  In fairness, though, it is not particularly advice that I need.  I
am not as persnickety in my work as perhaps I should be (depending on whom you
ask).  But when making a bookcase, for example, and a shelf is at 89 degrees
where it tenons into one side but 91 degrees where it tenons into the other
side, you’re going to have some problems that will not be easily fixed.

What I’ve been doing with my not-square squares is drawing a line once, flipping
the square, drawing another line, and splitting the difference.  It’s a pain.
And enough difference that not doing it would surely make a difference.

Micah


From: Thomas Conroy [mailto:booktoolcutter@y...]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:38 AM
To: Micah Salb ; oldtools@s...
Subject: Re: When Good Squares Go Bad

Micah Salb wrote:
"I am tired of squares that aren?t square.  I don?t understand how craftsmen of
yonder days did good work with squares that weren?t square!
"Are there reliable ways of squaring a square?"

You are probably demanding too much precision in your work. Thirty-five years
ago my binding teacher told me "The human eye is designed to forgive a great
deal around the general theme of squareness." If you look at 18th century books
the covers look just fine, but if you slap a protractor on them you will find
that plenty of those covers have corners that are five or ten degrees off.
Sometimes they are twenty degrees off, and you still don't notice it unless you
are looking for it. So chill out a bit. Take a stiff dose of whatever intoxicant
is still legal and suits your taste (My Great-Uncle Charley was a roofer. He
told me once that to do the work, you had to be drunk enough that the roof
looked flat to you; otherwise it wasn't safe. Fact.) If you can't see the
problem without precision measuring tools, then it doesn't matter.

Fit pieces to each other, not to a separate standard. Yeah, that was Maudsley's
great advance, the standard plane surface and so on. Fine, indeed necessary, for
machining metal. Not needed for wood, which is not a precision material. Get a
piece of wood planed to a crossection true to a hundredth of a degree and what
do you have? A piece of wood that is two degrees off after the next big
rainstorm.

Precision is nice, I suppose, but too much precision is a killer. Years ago I
saw a TV show where they were interviewing one of the ex-Nazi scientists who
ended up in Russia. A commissar came up to him at a reception and held up a
little vial. "Look at our Soviet plutonium," he said, "it is 99.9 per cent pure;
so you can see how much better it is than American plutonium. They can only make
90% pure." The ex-Nazi told the commissar----well, he said he told the
commissar, and I'm sure he wanted to: "The American plutonium is better. It
costs a tenth as much, and it blows up just as well." You're not a machinist,
are you? Why would you need a run-out of under .0002 inches in 6 inches?

Its a disease that attacks some people. Karl Holtey made beautiful infill planes
for a long time. I've seen one, handled it even if I remember correctly, didn't
have the chutzpah to ask its owner if I could try it. But Holtey wanted more and
more and more precision, and couldn't get it with the infill shimmying around
all over the place, so he got rid of the wood for his most mature designs. Ended
up with planes a lot uglier than the infills, and no better for working wood. I
like shimmying; I wouldn't want a Holtey-designed exotic dancer.

Back in the '80s someone wrote in a letter to Fine Woodworking: " 'Pretty close'
is not good enough for machines because they don't know how to be anything but
exact. With 'pretty close' machines become confused and their bearings heat up.
But man has always known what to do with 'pretty close.' He hits it with a
hammer, or puts in some shims, or changes the design, or adds some molding.
Man's ability to respond to 'pretty close' is precisely what makes him human and
vastly superior to machines. The ability to adapt to 'pretty close' makes human
work so much more pleasing and sought after than that of the machine...After
all, if God had wanted man to be perfect, he would not have invented wood
filler." [Thomas P. Sullivan to FWW #26, Jan/Feb. 1981, p. 4.]

Oh, you wanted practical advice? With a 10X magnifier and a hard, sharp pencil
the line-and-flip test will show you if a square is precise to .0008 over six
inches, and maybe .0004.----about half of Starrett's guarantee on their working
squares.  If a square won't pass this, get rid of it. Never buy a used square to
use it (c*ll*ct*ng them is another matter). Buy new, with a guarantee of
precision (BSC guaranteed machinists' squares are common and inexpensive) and
test a new square when you get it---send it back if it doesn't pass. Trying to
true up a used square is an extreme sport in itself. I've done it (once) and I
might do it again some day, just for the challenge, but if you want a square to
use, buy a new accurate one.

Or make your own of wood. It is actually surprisingly easy to make one, and easy
to true it before it is assembled, if you follow Chris Schwarz's method as shown
to St. Roy:

http://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-shop-try-square-christopher-schwarz/

I have two or three I made from rosewood offcuts, and I use them all the time,
for, of course, checking or for marking with a pencil. I keep steel squares for
use with a marking knife.

If precision really matters to you get a new Starrett or equivalent (the Swiss
company that bought Brown and Sharpe, or the Japanese one, or there is probably
someone in Germany) and keep it in a fitted case to check your working squares.
I believe the high-end firms will true a square that is out. Expensive,
probably, but if precision really matters to you....

I say I trued a steel square, by the way; well, this is maybe not quite right. I
worked away at one for six or eight years, getting it as good as I could and
having new problems crop up every time I corrected an old one. Finally I got fed
up and buried it in a drawer, still not satisfied with it. Five years later I
took it out to have another go, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with
it. Kept trying to figure out the last problem for a while, but finally I gave
in and started to use it. So that's my last bit of advice to you: put an
inaccurate square away in a drawer for a few years. Maybe it will correct
itself.

Tom Conroy
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264749 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑18 Re: dog holes
On 2018-01-17 8:38 PM, Derek Cohen wrote:
> The dog holes do have different tasks. The rectangular (square) dog holes only
run along the front edge of the bench. They align with the tail rise, and are
used for holding work along the edge, such as when planing faces of narrow
boards (sucg as drawer sides), or ploughing grooves. The round dog holes are for
hold downs. They are positioned in stops where time has shown me they are
needed.
>
> I am struggling to find a photo of the dog holes on my bench - the pics I have
tend to have a lot of clutter instead. Strange that!:)
>
> Here is one using the tail vise to hold a wide-ish drawer bottom (while a
curved front rebate is planed). There is a Veritas hold down at the end of the
board …
>
> https://s19.postimg.org/byu4wwxib/Tailvisea_zpsvnal6yby.jpg
>
> Again using the front square dogs to hold a long board and plough grooves for
drawer slips …
>
> https://s19.postimg.org/5pqxi5f4j/Sofa_Table_Secret_Drawer_html_m40f1f6f7.jpg
>
> Moxon dovetail vise held by hold downs in round dogs.
>
> https://s19.postimg.org/6pboiyf8j/moxon13.jpg
>
> At the rear can be seen round dog holes, which are used when planing across
the bench (usually when traversing, but here smoothing) …
>
> https://s19.postimg.org/yg89w5roz/IDeclare_This_Bench_Finished_html_m
64ad6e87.jpg">https://s19.postimg.org/yg89w5roz/IDeclare_This_Bench_Finished_htm
l_m64ad6e87.jpg
>
> Hope this helps.


Derek

Hi & Thanks.

I am inferring from this that neither is inherently better for any task 
or position, but rather that perhaps you started out with the square 
holes, then added the round ones as needs arose.

I am in a different position. I've purchased the Veritas deluxe benchtop 
kit ( two 10-3/4in predrilled slabs plus hardware, and am trying to 
decide what to do with it. I don't want the well that Veritas has in 
their plans, and am considering alternatives for widening the top to 
about 26 or 28in. I'm leaning to a narrow gap a la Mike Siemsen that 
would accommodate planing stops, bench hooks and possibly clamps, but 
will want to add some material either at the gap or on the front and/or 
back. I could conceivably add a row of square holes along one or both 
long edges. My vises are a Record quick-action & the Veritas twin-screw, 
which will very likely go on the end. I am open to all ideas except for 
returning the slabs and building my own top. ;-)

I'm also interested in seeing or hearing about any experiences with the 
Veritas benchtop. My observations so far are that it is more heavily 
finished than I want, one slab is slightly thicker ( about 1/64" ) than 
spec, and they will want a bit of flattening. I may go over both sides 
with a toothing plane, and then joint them once the top is assembled, 
putting the thinner slab at the back ( shimmed with veneer).

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264750 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑18 Re: Logs
On 2018-01-17 4:59 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/canadian-man-builds-impressive-log-
cabin-time-lapse/story?id=52342918">http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/canadian-
man-builds-impressive-log-cabin-time-lapse/story?id=52342918
>
> Are these logs prepared to be round like that?

I guess you'd have to ask them!

Don, bobbing and weaving

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264751 Derek Cohen <derekcohen@i...> 2018‑01‑18 Re: dog holes
Don wrote: 


            
264758 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑18 Re: Holdfast holes
On 2018-01-18 5:05 AM, Thomas Johnson wrote:
> Greetings one and all -
> I have a pair of 5/8" diameter holdfasts that I am wanting to put to work.
> I drilled a 5/8" diameter hold and tried to ream it out a bit with the 5/8"
> bit but the bench is 4" thick at that point (hard maple) and I clearly am
> going to have to open up the holes a bit.  So here's my question - what
> size hole is recommended?  I'm clearly going to have to go on-line and buy
> a 21/32 bit ... or 11/16"?  I'm cheap.  I don't want to but a 21/32 and
> find out it's too small - or a 11/16 and find out it's too big.

Suggest you try counterboring one hole from below with a 3/4 or 7/8" bit 
to see if that creates enough wiggle room. Try 1/2" or so at a time 
until you find the sweet spot.

FWIW

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264760 Phil Koontz <phil.koontz@g...> 2018‑01‑18 Re: Holdfast holes
HI guys--

In my experience, the exact size of the hole is not an issue.  I have used
holdfasts in holes that were too tight the first time I pounded them
through the bench, and at the other extreme, holes that were wallowed out
to 1" or more and even burned from using them to test holdfasts that were
still hot from the forge.  My thought here is to just get the HF installed
the first time, using a rasp or sandpaper on a stick.  After that it should
be fine.  FWIW, square holes work, but get some cosmetic damage from round
holdfasts.

A slight disclaimer.  My bench, and especially my holdfast testing bench,
has always been softwood, so I don't have any delicacy about appearance.
Thicker is better.  Hardwood lasts better but tends to be slippery.

Your mileage may vary.

PK
Kinda missing our usual winter weather in rural Alaska--
264762 Michael Suwczinsky <nicknaylo@g...> 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
That’s been my experience as well, a softwood bench and wallowed out holes.
3/4 mild steel in holes of I’m not sure where they are now! IIRC I could
only put my hands on 3/4 and 4/4 augers at the time. Ended up filling the
1” hole and widening the 3/4 with a big Rattail role in an imprecise
manner. In use, like Phil says, they deform into functionality.
Gotta try using a hot hf next time a hole sticks with the weather change

Michael

  wrote:

> In my experience, the exact size of the hole is not an issue.  I have used
> holdfasts in holes that were too tight the first time I pounded them
> through the bench, and at the other extreme, holes that were wallowed out
> to 1" or more and even burned from using them to test holdfasts that were
> still hot from the forge.  My thought here is to just get the HF installed
> the first time, using a rasp or sandpaper
>
-- 
Michael Suwczinsky
264763 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
I’m trying to remember exactly how I em-biggened some d’oh-(forehead
slap)-too-small holes on one of the past builds...
Against policy to discuss, I know, but it involved clamping a (ssssh)
tailed router mounted on a ¼” plywood base and plunging the ¾” bit  to the
maximum depth, with the typical horrific noise levels and clouds of
pulverized wood dust in the atmosphere,  (2 ½ “ deep, or maybe a bit more,
can’t remember).  That gave me a nice clean hole that allowed me to
continue through the rest of the thickness of the top with some other bit I
had.  It worked, but admittedly it’s not a ‘hand tool only’ solution (half
by hand, does that count?).
  As mentioned already, it’s difficult to enlarge a hole on center without
special tooling.  If you have a tool bit grinder you can roll your own by
grinding your own custom counterbore tool, but then you wouldn’t be asking
here, right?  I did see a flea market spade bit that was crudely ground
down to counterbore on a regular bench grinder, but it was a small
one-5/16” CB, probably for plane counterbores (for the brass nut to fix the
tote, the narrow part fit into the 5/16 hole, and enlarged it to the
diameter of the fixing nut).  I can’t imagine that would work well for the
larger sizes, but I don’t know.  You would need some Popeye sized arm
muscles to rotate a large diameter by hand.
  Maybe you might have a bevel geared barn boring machine drill (the kind
you clamp down, and sit on, then crank on both sides)?  Or, if you’re
really into the ancient stuff, look up “beam drills” that use a wimble or
brace and the lever principle with a 8” to 10” diameter log to give you the
downward pressure you need.
Claudio

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:26 AM Michael Suwczinsky 
wrote:
264764 <gtgrouch@r...> 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
A spoon bit will ream a hole out nicely, but I don't have one that big.

I would be tempted to use a forstner bit in a bit brace. 

I've never tried this on a bench, so I'm speculating.

Gary Katsanis
Albion New York, USA
(where we are having a very welcome thaw)

---- Claudio DeLorenzi  wrote: 

=============
I’m trying to remember exactly how I em-biggened some d’oh-(forehead
slap)-too-small holes on one of the past builds...

 --- info about a tailed apprentice snipped out ---
264765 Phil Koontz <phil.koontz@g...> 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
HI again--

Since we're talking about reboring holes now, here's a technique.

Drill (bore) a hole in a piece of scrap.  Clamp it over the undersized hole
and use it for a pilot to start the bit.

PK
264767 Chuck Taylor 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
To make a round holdfast hole larger, couldn't you simply plug the hole with new
wood (all the way or maybe just the top inch or so), then drill it out again
with a larger augur?

Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle
264766 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
Phil

Great idea.  I have done this on wooden ships and for bigger holes you need a
thicker piece of wood as a guide - maybe 2-3”.

Ed Minch
264768 Matthew Groves <grovesthegrey@g...> 2018‑01‑20 Re: Holdfast holes
The old way to enlarge a hole like this would be a counterbore bit. 

Matthew Groves
Springfield, MO
264770 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑21 Re: Holdfast holes
Warning: tailed device depicted and employed.

On 2018-01-20 10:09 AM, Phil Koontz wrote:
> HI again--
>
> Since we're talking about reboring holes now, here's a technique.
>
> Drill (bore) a hole in a piece of scrap.  Clamp it over the undersized hole
> and use it for a pilot to start the bit.
>
> PK


Consider also this boot-strap counterbore bit detailed on the 
Benchcrafted site:

http://benchcrafted.blogspot.ca/search/label/Split-Top%20Roubo

Haven't tried it, but this looks like a winner to me. Spade bits are 
just raw materials...

Don


-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264775 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑22 Re: Bench stop wedge
On 2018-01-22 7:51 AM, William Ghio wrote:
> I don’t know if it has any other name and am too lazy to go thru the old books
to look for it. It’s just a flat piece of wood w/ a vee cut in it. stock is
wedged in the vee w/ a shaped block and stuff is locked. Very handy for edge
planing.  Anybody else use one of these?

Yup! I call it a planing wedge. Mine is 1/2in plywood, the better to 
avoid splitting. I put the wedge on the far side of the workpiece to 
bring the work closer to the bench edge. I hold it in place between the 
metal dog on my vise and a dog-hole post on the bench. Have to make 
another one soon as it's worn and doesn't hold as well as it once did. 
I'll make the new one out of 3/4 ply. An alternative type uses two 
strips lodged in dog-holes, one strip parallel to the bench, the other 
angled.  I've also seen them with a small hook fashioned on the leading 
edge of the wedge, which the material catches to push the wedge in. I 
guess it doesn't need a mallet to tighten.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
264779 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑01‑22 Re: Bench stop wedge
I had  small metal one of these that didn’t work as well as it should have - it
had the hook on the end.  Here is a shot of what it looked like:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/28061453299/in/dateposted-
public/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/28061453299/in/dateposted-
public/ <https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/28061453299/in
/dateposted-public/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/28061453299/in
/dateposted-public/>

I am a little unclear why this is better than using the face vice and board jack
- it makes the edge higher, but I don't think I need that.


Ed Minch
264782 gary may 2018‑01‑22 Re: Bench stop wedge
Hi Don---
  I've seen what you describe as the 'alternative type', on my own bench, but
never saw it done this way before, and I sure like it. Elegant, and only two
pieces.  It's easier to fix to the bench than my present way, which is two
strips, a snecked wedge and four dogs. Phew.
    I'll do it like you do, too, with the birdsmouth's wedge to the back, so
that the work, however thick it may be, is always the same distance from the
close edge of the bench.
and all the best---gam in OlyWA/USA
 

How horrible it is to have so many people killed!---And what a blessing one
cares for none of them!
Jane Austen

      From: Don Schwartz 
 To: oldtools@s... 
 Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 8:25 AM
 Subject: Re: [OldTools] Bench stop wedge
   
On 2018-01-22 7:51 AM, William Ghio wrote:
> I don’t know if it has any other name and am too lazy to go thru the old books
to look for it. It’s just a flat piece of wood w/ a vee cut in it. stock is
wedged in the vee w/ a shaped block and stuff is locked. Very handy for edge
planing.  Anybody else use one of these?

Yup! I call it a planing wedge. Mine is 1/2in plywood, the better to 
avoid splitting. I put the wedge on the far side of the workpiece to 
bring the work closer to the bench edge. I hold it in place between the 
metal dog on my vise and a dog-hole post on the bench. Have to make 
another one soon as it's worn and doesn't hold as well as it once did. 
I'll make the new one out of 3/4 ply. An alternative type uses two 
strips lodged in dog-holes, one strip parallel to the bench, the other 
angled.  I've also seen them with a small hook fashioned on the leading 
edge of the wedge, which the material catches to push the wedge in. I 
guess it doesn't need a mallet to tighten.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

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OldTools@s...
264783 William Ghio <bghio@m...> 2018‑01‑22 Re: Bench stop wedge
> On Jan 22, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Ed Minch  wrote:
> 
> I am a little unclear why this is better than using the face vice and board
jack - it makes the edge higher, but I don't think I need that.
> 

It works better for thin narrow stock. The highest position on my sliding jack
is 5 inches below the the bench top. On thin stock it can get real whippy
sticking out of a vise and clamps are awkward at best. In the pic I posted the
stock was 24 inches long, 3 inches wide and 3/8 thick. I had three pieces to
plane to the same height. In the birdsmouth they all sat on the bench, fully
supported for edge planing. Today I was doing the same to two pieces of 1/4 x 1
1/4” x 24” material. Piece of cake. Would have been a real trial in the face
vice. Plus, since the bench top is the reference surface, you can remove the
pieces and if necessary reinsert and get the same registration. Try that in a
face vise.
264785 RH Hutchins <rhhutchins@h...> 2018‑01‑22 Re: Bench stop wedge
> Ed Minch replied to Bill Ghio, thusly . . .
>> I am a little unclear why this is better than using the face vice and board
jack - it makes the edge higher, but I don't think I need that.
>>
> It works better for thin narrow stock. The highest position on my sliding jack
is 5 inches below the the bench top. On thin stock it can get real whippy
sticking out of a vise and clamps are awkward at best. In the pic I posted the
stock was 24 inches long, 3 inches wide and 3/8 thick. I had three pieces to
plane to the same height. In the birdsmouth they all sat on the bench, fully
supported for edge planing. Today I was doing the same to two pieces of 1/4 x 1
1/4” x 24” material. Piece of cake. Would have been a real trial in the face
vice. Plus, since the bench top is the reference surface, you can remove the
pieces and if necessary reinsert and get the same registration. Try that in a
face vise.
>


I have a small bench which, as yet, has no vise.  One of these bird 
mouth jigs clamped to the top and registered against a slightly elevated 
screw will allow me to plane some stock for box and drawer sides that I 
need to glue up.

Thanks for posting this and solving a problem for me.

Bob Hutchins
Temple, TX, USA
264790 Kirk Eppler <eppler.kirk@g...> 2018‑01‑23 Re: dog holes
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:

> .
>
> I am in a different position. I've purchased the Veritas deluxe benchtop
> kit ( two 10-3/4in predrilled slabs plus hardware, and am trying to decide
> what to do with it. I don't want the well that Veritas has in their plans,
> and am considering alternatives for widening the top to about 26 or 28in.
> I'm leaning to a narrow gap a la Mike Siemsen that would accommodate
> planing stops, bench hooks and possibly clamps, but will want to add some
> material either at the gap or on the front and/or back. I could conceivably
> add a row of square holes along one or both long edges. My vises are a
> Record quick-action & the Veritas twin-screw, which will very likely go on
> the end. I am open to all ideas except for returning the slabs and building
> my own top. ;-)
>
> I'm also interested in seeing or hearing about any experiences with the
> Veritas benchtop. My observations so far are that it is more heavily
> finished than I want, one slab is slightly thicker ( about 1/64" ) than
> spec, and they will want a bit of flattening. I may go over both sides with
> a toothing plane, and then joint them once the top is assembled, putting
> the thinner slab at the back ( shimmed with veneer).
>


Don
Sorry to be a bit late replying to this.  I have a Veritas bench, bought
the complete kit, with the wooden legs.  I added a tool cabinet underneath
it to keep tools close by, and give it mass.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Shop-Stuff/i-6d8GkVP

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Under-Workbench-Tool
-Cabinet/i-qm4KjjT

I hate to say I didn't notice any of the things you mentioned, because I
didn't care.  This was my previous bench, the Record 052 vise is off in
this shot. The Veritas, even with any flaws, was a huge step up.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Shop-Stuff/i-b9zLTqs

I have had it since about 2003, and I still have an email or two of people
chiding me for buying vs building.  But if I had to build a bench, it still
wouldn't be done.

Yes, it is heavily finished, which I am OK with.  I never measured the
thickness or flatness of either one.  Once assembled and leveled in the
shop, I did check it for flat against a 48" scale I had at work, and it was
close enough back then for WW stuff.  I was splitting mm at work so it was
a nice break back then.

I love the dog hole grid pattern, made many of my own guides and stops (on
the bench in 1st pic),

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-9MGKkdv

and bought more from LV after they FINALLY developed them. I have their
round dogs and muzzles, the prairie dog, the wonder dog.  This is one of
the best
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69837&cat=1,41637

And was my favorite until Bill Ghio posted his planing stop with the 1/8"
thick washer under it.  Gonna make one like his.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../39839474561/in/dateposted-public/

I made an adjustable board jack, which hides out of the way when not in use.
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Under-Workbench-Tool
-Cabinet/i-JhxzFn9

I have a couple of Gramercy Hold Fasts, 2 cut off for working over the
cabinet, 1 full length and 1 Tim Holloway version too.  (The Jorgensen cast
5/8" one doesn't work well, think the bench is too thin.)
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Saws/i-fcgWwMZ

I use a crappy shooting board, mount my miter box there too, but no pix
quickly at hand.

I have put vises in the vises per BugBear , for carving handles
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-QtDv7NN

Held Galootaclaus gifts
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Projects/i-pc62Q8v

Its been used for BAGAThons scrubbing walnut down

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/BAGaThons-and-Gather
ings/100912-BAGaThon-KE/i-hLMnqv5

It's been used for many a tool acquistion photo shoot.

https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-9BxNv2G
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-HJVgwc8   (couple of
planing stops off stage left, this and next pic)
https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Misc-Images/i-drdGcTr

I have planned on making a couple of dovetailed boxes to fill the gap, put
a piece of veneer or thin stock under them and they become planing stops,
but haven't gotten there yet.

I have but rubber bands on the bench handles, to cushion the dropping, so
the ends don't fall off.

Let me know if I can answer more specific questions

-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, working on getting Live Oak into manageable
pieces
264791 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑01‑24 Re: Veritas benchtop kit WAS dog holes
Kirk:

Thanks for sharing! :-)

On 2018-01-23 3:37 PM, Kirk Eppler wrote:

> Yes, it is heavily finished, which I am OK with.  I never measured the 
> thickness or flatness of either one.  Once assembled and leveled in 
> the shop, I did check it for flat against a 48" scale I had at work, 
> and it was close enough back then for WW stuff.  I was splitting mm at 
> work so it was a nice break back then.
Mine was fairly flat and mostly square or close to it. But I discovered 
today that the dog-holes on the 2 slabs don't line up, so I called 
Customer Service and they are arranging to to deliver another pair of 
slabs ( after checking them ), and picking up the ones I lugged home in 
my wife's sedan (Don't ask!). Hal, the Customer Service guy, was 
understanding, helpful and very responsive. I hope to have the 
replacement in 7-10 days.
>
> I love the dog hole grid pattern, made many of my own guides and stops 
> (on the bench in 1st pic),
>
> https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-9MGKkdv 
> <https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Woodworking-Tools/i-9MGKkdv>
>
> and bought more from LV after they FINALLY developed them. I have 
> their round dogs and muzzles, the prairie dog, the wonder dog.  This 
> is one of the best
> http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69837&cat=1,41637 
> <http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69837&cat=1,41637>

A few of their accessories have already found their way into my basement 
;-) , and have worked well on my old, tired bench top.

I like the thin planing stop too, also the surface clamp 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=57059&cat=1,41637 (which 
seems to work in any thickness)

and the duck-like fast-action hold-down 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70930&cat=1,41637

>
> And was my favorite until Bill Ghio posted his planing stop with the 
> 1/8" thick washer under it.  Gonna make one like his.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../39839474561/in/dateposted-public/
Sure looks like a good idea, that.
>
> I made an adjustable board jack, which hides out of the way when not 
> in use.
> https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Under-Workbench-Tool-
Cabinet/i-JhxzFn9">https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Under-Workbench-Tool-
Cabinet/i-JhxzFn9
> <https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Under-Workbench-Tool-
Cabinet/i-JhxzFn9">https://kirkhmb.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Under-Workbench-Tool-
Cabinet/i-JhxzFn9>
Nice compact accessory. I had contemplated a deadman but I like the 
bench slave idea, though I worry it will be better at hiding than I am 
at finding!.
>
> I have a couple of Gramercy Hold Fasts
Likewise. They work well in the 2in maple.
>
> I use a crappy shooting board
Yeah, I need to make another one, also a new bench hook or two - all to 
register in the gap I'm planning. The list of side projects grows...
>
> I have but rubber bands on the bench handles, to cushion the dropping, 
> so the ends don't fall off.
I save the rubber washers from Grolsch beer bottles for securing guitar 
straps on their pegs, but seem to have a few extra, some of which I've 
used on my vise handles to prevent pinched fingers. IME, guitar players 
hate pinched fingers, and like beer, so it works out very nicely.
>
> Let me know if I can answer more specific questions
>
I like your below-bench cabinet, but it would never work for me. I hate 
heavy drawers. Instead, I'm planning to add an open shelf of heavy 
repurposed barfboard for planes, holdfasts, mallets & such below decks, 
raised up a little more than Veritas designers envision in their plan 
when they drew the stretchers. I want to be able to find stuff under 
there, and maybe sweep from time to time. And I hate getting down on 
hands and knees with a flashlight and magnetic pickup tool looking for 
screws and such. Even a couple of inches would help.

You mentioned the cabinet added mass, and I can see why, with all those 
shiny things in the drawers. I've wondered whether the maple base they 
sell would be heavy enough for planing. I've never seen one set up that 
way. The one they have in the Calgary store is on their 60lb pr of cast 
iron legs and it's immobile so far as I can tell. I plan to build my 
base from Doug Fir or maybe W. larch, but in heavier dimensions than 
their plans call for. Once I've drawn a plan, I'll do some calculations 
to compare with their recommendations. My benchtop will be lower, so I 
think I can safely raise the long stretchers up some, especially if I 
use wider material for them.

Do you have any issue with deflection of the top under planing? I have 
been thinking it would be easy enough to add long strips of birch under 
the slabs to add some stiffness.

Oh! Got to go! Time to  heat up the grill!  Thanks again.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265042 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑02‑07 Re: Stone
In the excitement, I forgot to answer your question(s). The dark side is 
coarser, maybe natural maybe man-made. The good stuff is natural. It 
forms a bit of slurry like the superfine Japanese stones. Oh, use water, 
NOT oil.
How big is it?

Don, who only ever found small ones.

On 2018-02-07 1:02 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
>  From strop to stone
>
> I found what appears to be a very very high quality stone.  it is
maroon/brown/eggplant colored on one side
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/26265759018/in/dateposted-public/
>
> and tan/cream/pale yellow on the other
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/26265759338/in/dateposted-public/
>
> So 2 questions - what is it?  and how do I tell which side is the finer
stone?? —  in fact, how do you guess the grit of any stone you night find?
>
> I guess that’s 3 questions
>
>
> Ed Minch
> Don't anthropomorphise your tools - they hate that
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
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>
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>
> OldTools@s...


-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265044 Ed Minch <ruby1638@a...> 2018‑02‑07 Re: Stone
It is 2" X 8”.  The Berea oil stone I showed a couple of days ago says “for use
with oil or water”.  I have never used water on a stone.  What happens?  IS
there too much swarf for oil to get rid of??


Ed Minch
265047 Chuck Taylor 2018‑02‑07 Re: Stone
Ed,

Belgian coticules are highly prized by those who hone straight razors. Like
Japanese water stones, there are natural and manufactured coticules, with the
former commanding higher prices.

As for using water vs. oil on a sharpening stone, the only answer I've heard
that makes any sense is that oil would adversely affect the binders (natural or
otherwise) that hold the particles of a water stone together. I've been told
that oil will ruin a water stone. Never tried it myself.

You can use soapy water on an oil stone with no problem. I've done it. I was at
a class once and the fellow at the next bench objected to the odor of the
kerosene I was using as a honing oil on my Arkansas stones. I switched to water
with a little dish detergent added. Worked fine. Now I use mineral oil or baby
oil from the drug store.

==snip==
The Berea oil stone I showed a couple of days ago says “for use with oil or
water”.  I have never used water on a stone.  What happens?  IS there too much
swarf for oil to get rid of??
==unsnip==


Chuck Taylor
north of Seattle
265048 "yorkshireman@y..." <yorkshireman@y...> 2018‑02‑07 Re: Stone
Years ago - decades in fact, I bought 2 oilstones.  I was young, and thought I’d
wear one out, and have a spare.  (  ! )

One I used as an oilstone - with oil of course.  After a while I used the ther
with water, ‘cos I’d heard about these new fancy waterstones that were
everywhere, and thought I’d try it.  So I just used water on the oilstone.  I
keep that one flat for planes, and the oily one is the general purpose one, and
it may get a bit hollow from chisels, and be ab-used from time to tie for
weirder stuff like billhooks when I have nothing better to hand.


What happens to the water?  It lets the metal particles go rusty if you leave
them, but it’s a dream to keep clean - rinse under a tap, or you can sneak it in
the dishwasher without harm.  I can guarantee that if you sneal in the oilstone
you won’t be able to sneak it out without SWMBI noticing.  ‘nuff said


Try water - if you don’t like it you wait for it to dry then use oil.  You can’t
get oil out of the stone though - I’ve tried.   Not real hard, life’s too short.
Nowadays I have one or two more that came home, so I’m not precious, as log as I
have a good flat stone for blades that matter,


YMMV


Richard Wilson
Northumbrian Galoot
265050 gary may 2018‑02‑07 Re: Stone
That's right Ed, when honing with water, the surface     oxidation of the
microscopic iron shavings lightens them enough to ^LIFT^ the swarf off the stone
and right up to the surface of the water.  I think.

nice stone, dude.  yr pl gam




 It is 2" X 8”.  The Berea oil stone I showed a couple of days ago says “for use
with oil or water”.  I have never used water on a stone.  What happens?  IS
there too much swarf for oil to get rid of??


Ed Minch




> On Feb 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> In the excitement, I forgot to answer your question(s). The dark side is
coarser, maybe natural maybe man-made. The good stuff is natural. It forms a bit
of slurry like the superfine Japanese stones. Oh, use water, NOT oil.
> How big is it?
> 
> Don, who only ever found small ones.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...
265051 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
On 2018-02-07 2:15 PM, Chuck Taylor via OldTools wrote:
> You can use soapy water on an oil stone with no problem. I've done it. I was
at a class once and the fellow at the next bench objected to the odor of the
kerosene I was using as a honing oil on my Arkansas stones. I switched to water
with a little dish detergent added. Worked fine. Now I use mineral oil or baby
oil from the drug store.

Me too. Palmolive or whatever, Just shake before using. Washes off stone 
and hands etc more easily than oil alone.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265052 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
On 2018-02-07 2:54 PM, yorkshireman@y... wrote:
> rinse under a tap, or you can sneak it in the dishwasher without harm.  I can
guarantee that if you sneal in the oilstone you won’t be able to sneak it out
without SWMBI noticing.  ‘nuff said


Except... you can first boil an oilstone sitting on some protective, 
absorbent rag, in an old discardable roasting pan on the stovetop,  And 
once that's done and and the scum rinsed off, you might be able to do a 
cycle in the dishwasher without catching hell. Just don't blame me if 
you get caught. I didn't!


Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265053 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
What about using Galoot aftershave on your oil stones (Remember the ads:
"When you wear WD40, she'll notice!")
Cheers
C
265057 Thomas Conroy 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
From: Ed Minch wrote: "how do I tell which side is the finer stone?? ?  in fact,
how do you guess the grit of any stone you night find?"

Make sure it is clean, then use it a bit. The coarser side will feel raspier,
and you may--- should--- be able to see the different size of the scratch
patterns under moderate magnification (say 10X to 30X). It can be tricky
comparing two completely different stones (for instance, one may have smaller
but sharper grains than the other), but the two sides of one stone shouldn't be
difficult. Don't get hung up on grit size; the hardness and geometry of the
grains are at least as important.
Tom Conroy
265058 Thomas Conroy 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
Ed Minch wrote: "The Berea oil stone I showed a couple of days ago says ?for use
with oil or water?.  I have never used water on a stone.  What happens?  IS
there too much swarf for oil to get rid of??


I avoid oil because I worry about getting oil residues on my work. Also, some
oils can settle into the pores of a stone and dry there, clogging it. Not just
drying oils, I had it happen with vegetable oil*. Water on natural Western
stones may allow the stone to cut sharper and quicker; in other words the oil
lubricates the stone and reduces friction, therefore reduces the cutting action.
On the other hand, oil seems to float swarf off the surface more efficiently. I
think that the finer the stone, the greater the drawbacks of using oil; but
then, I was taught to use a translucent black arkansas completely dry, and clean
it after each use with trichloroethane, so it feels natural to me to have little
or nothing between the steel and a fine stone.
Tom Conroy
*Vegetable oil. When I was in college, I visited a friend's family one vacation,
and they had just bought a nice hard white arkansas stone for use in the
kitchen. I knew a bit about sharpening, not enough, so I sharpened their kitchen
knives for them, using salad oil since they didn't have any light machine oil,
and thought no more of it. I visited again three or four years later (they lived
2500 miles from me) and found that poor stone covered with a layer of filthy
gunk half a millimeter thick; they had continued to use the stone as I had, with
vegetable oil, and they hadn't cleaned it thoroughly after each use. I managed
to scrape away most of the gunk, but not really enough; they didn't have any
solvents in the house, and I didn't know about boiling stones in detergent for
many years after that. I still feel guilty about that stone, though its probably
forty-six years ago and I think---I just realized, but I think I'm the only
person left alive who slept in that house that week. My friend Sally died a few
years ago, her parents before her, her grandmother and little brother long, long
ago. Last I heard Sally's sisters were still alive, but I don't think they were
in the house that vacation. Lift a glass. Lift a glass.
265060 Claudio DeLorenzi <claudio@d...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
Re vegetable oils on sharpening stones!
Not sure if everyone is aware that some kinds of edible oils available at
your grocery stores will crosslink and harden up to provide a finish?  For
example, walnut oil will harden up and cure with in a few days in warm
weather.  This is an inexpensive, non-toxic finish that you might have a
use for (bowls or whatever).
  That’s why you should always check that the lube oil you want to use on
your sharpening stone will not harden up (crosslink), because no one would
use varnish as a lube, right?
   Some other nut oils will also naturally harden up but may take longer.
Anyway, just double check that there are no additives or anything, and you
can use plain old walnut oil from your local health food store as a wood
finish.
You can even eat a salad out of your bowl before the finish cures and it
won’t hurt you.
Claudio
265063 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
On 2018-02-08 8:41 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi wrote:
> ome kinds of edible oils available at your grocery stores will 
> crosslink and harden up to provide a finish?  For example, walnut oil 
> will harden up and cure with in a few days in warm weather.  This is 
> an inexpensive, non-toxic finish that you might have a use for (bowls 
> or whatever). 

Walnut oil dries slowly, but it does dry. It's good for kitchen utensils 
& such. And it has a pleasant nutty aroma! I'm not sure that I'd use it 
on furniture, due to the slow drying.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265065 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
On 2018-02-08 9:13 AM, gtgrouch@r... wrote:
> Acetone will sometimes work. I've never tried it on olive oil, but it has
worked for me on other thick oils.
>
> YMMV, Gary Katsanis

Perhaps, but it's not something I'd use on kitchen ware or salad bowls.

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265066 Thomas Conroy 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
Claudio wrote: "Re vegetable oils on sharpening stones!"Not sure if everyone is
aware that some kinds of edible oils available at your grocery stores will
crosslink and harden up to provide a finish?  For example, walnut oil will
harden up and cure with in a few days in warm weather.  This is an inexpensive,
non-toxic finish that you might have a use for (bowls or whatever). "
Walnut oil is one of the classic drying oils. Until the nineteenth century it is
always walnut, not linseed, that appears in recipes for printing ink. And I
think, a bit less certainn of this, that it was favored by many artists for oil
painting. I don't know the plusses and minuses of the different oils, though,
except that walnut oil was apt to go rancid.
The "wayzegoose" was the big annual outdoor festival for printers, combined with
making the year's supply of printing ink. The oil was brought to a boil in an
enormous kettle, which was why the party was outdoors and out of town. Major,
major fire risk. The temperature was checked by holding stale bread in the oil
on a long fork; the heat of the oil could be checked by how well the bread
cooked. When the oil was ready, the fried crusts were eaten as a delicacy, and
the carbon, litharge, and other ingredients were mixed in. The delicacy ssounds
a lot more appetizing as "fried in walnut oil" than "fried in printing ink."

Tom Conroy
265067 Brian Welch <brian.w.welch@g...> 2018‑02‑08 Re: Stone
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Claudio DeLorenzi wrote:

> no one would use varnish as a lube, right?
>

My parents are heavily invested in timeshares and spend many weeks a year
at different ones around the country.  My mother's big obsession is squeaky
hinges. First thing after checking in she goes around and checks all the
doors and oils the squeaky ones. If they drove to the location she will
have her bottle of 3-in-1 oil with her, but if they flew she will use oil
from the kitchen.  Works like a charm short term, but I'm sure she's left a
gummy mess for other people long after she is gone.

Brian
265202 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑02‑22 Re: Another reason to be glad I am a galoot
On 2018-02-22 10:54 AM, Kirk Eppler wrote:
> *I tend to get shocky at the sight of blood, especially my own, so she
> blames her weakness on me.
>
> -- 

Kirk:


That is not a weakness. It is a response with tremendous survival 
value!...IMO

Don

-- 
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
The Famous Pig Song, Clarke Van Ness

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265592 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑03‑29 Re: Leather booties
On 2018-03-29 4:49 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> I have a couple of forged holdfasts that are fantastic.  On more delicate
surfaces, I have a strip of 1/4” plywood with a hole in it that I thread on the
shaft and it fits under the head to prevent marring.  Someone on a guitar forum
just mentioned these:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-Holdfast-Covers-Protect-Your-Wood-
Brown-to-Black-Leather/172150050483?epid=1362216886&hash=item2814f14eb3:g:2y4AAO
SwKtVW0g4x:sc:USPSFirstClass!25301!US!-1">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-
Holdfast-Covers-Protect-Your-Wood-Brown-to-Black-Leather/172150050483?epid=13622
16886&hash=item2814f14eb3:g:2y4AAOSwKtVW0g4x:sc:USPSFirstClass!25301!US!-1
>
> What do you all use??
>
>
Leather booties would get lost at my place. I use 1/4in ply strips, just 
like you. Hard to lose, easy to replace when they do. Mine are long 
enough to extend the reach of my Grammercy holdfasts a little.

Don

-- 
I have decided to leave my past behind. So, if I owe you money...I am sorry, but
I’ve moved on.

The harder they come, the bigger they fall." Ry Cooder
265770 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑04‑26 Re: Schupo 20mm Dovetail Plane #79
On 2018-04-26 1:23 PM, John Ruth wrote:
> Gentle Galoots,
>
>
> Can anyone enlighten me on the origin of Schupo wooden planes?
>
>
> I just bought a wooden European-styled dovetail plane stamped "79 / 20 m/m /
Schupo on the heel.  There's a round trademark on the top surface which is a
circle with the letters "L. W." with a " + " and four diverging rays.
>
>
> The slightly-tapered iron is stamped "ACIER FONDU" in sans-serif letters. No
other marks on the iron.  (I take this to mean the iron is cast steel.)
>
>
> The body is a light blonde wood. It's beaded with a dark wood which doesn't
look like the boxwood beading on old American planes.
>
>
> The moving fence at on the bottom is solid brass. The cross-grain nicking iron
is missing, but the brass thumbnut on its retainer is still present.
>
>
> So, my questions to the Porch are: Where was Schupo located and in which years
were they making
>
> planes?  (My SWAG is that its Swiss in origin, which would explain the French
stamping and the Germanic appearance.)   What do the initials L.W. stand for?
>
So from what Kirk & Wolfgang have said, the plane is apparently German. 
But with a French iron. Can you see any reason to think it may not be 
original?

Don

-- 
I have decided to leave my past behind. So, if I owe you money...I am sorry, but
I’ve moved on.

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli
265778 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑04‑29 Re: pure luck
On 2018-04-29 12:27 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
> good leather suitable for a sheath

Scott:

What leather do you consider suitable for knives, axes, drawknives etc.?

Don

-- 
I have decided to leave my past behind. So, if I owe you money...I am sorry, but
I’ve moved on.

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli
265779 <gtgrouch@r...> 2018‑04‑29 Re: pure luck
I like vegetable-tanned leather, 7-9lb. I might use thicker if I could find it,
but that's rare.

YMMV, Gary K

---- Don Schwartz  wrote: 

=============
On 2018-04-29 12:27 PM, scott grandstaff wrote:
> good leather suitable for a sheath

Scott:

What leather do you consider suitable for knives, axes, drawknives etc.?

Don

-- 
I have decided to leave my past behind. So, if I owe you money...I am sorry, but
I’ve moved on.

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli

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aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
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To change your subscription options:
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OldTools@s...
265905 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑05‑23 Re: 3M abrasive backing
On 2018-05-23 12:22 PM, Brent Beach wrote:
> Hi
>
> A long time user of 3M sheet abrasives, I am embarrassed to admit I 
> have a sheet I cannot tame. I cannot separate the backing film from 
> the abrasive no matter what I try.
>
> Usually a thumb nail into a corner and the deed is done. Not with this 
> sheet.
>
> I have used a variety of very sharp implements and cannot separate at 
> the corner. I have tried shaving off the backing film - again, both or 
> none.
>
> I have folded a corner back and forth many times. Still no gap I can 
> get into.
>
> Who has the absolutely sure fire method for getting the backing film off?
>
> Brent

Two thoughts. Stick it in the freezer for a while and then try it. Or 
try cutting through one layer near a corner, bend back to open the cut 
and peel off the freed bit before tackling the rest of the sheet at the 
cut-line.

FWIW

Don

-- 

“It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli
265942 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑05‑26 Re: Carving inland redwood
On 2018-05-25 10:18 PM, curt seeliger wrote:
> Do any of you have experience carving inland redwood (Sequoiadendron
> giganteum)? I've stumbled into some freshly cut rounds recently and am
> trying to carve some bowls from the wet wood, but it seems to crack easily
> as I do so. I've lost a few hours on segments that seem to be solid until
> worked. I'm surprised the wood as so little structural integrity, given the
> size these trees can reach.
> Is it a mistake to work it green, or assume I can get something from
> branches of young (<30 yo) trees?
>
> Thanks for your input

I haven't carved it, but apparently it's quite a brittle wood. It may be 
there's little cross-grain structure to hold it together. Apparently 
much of the wood is lost to splinters when the trees are felled. It is 
apparently not suitable for structural purposes.

Don

-- 

“It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli
265947 curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2018‑05‑26 Re: Carving inland redwood
> > Do any of you have experience carving inland redwood (Sequoiadendron
> > giganteum)? ...I'm surprised the wood as so little structural
integrity, given the
> > size these trees can reach.
> I haven't carved it, but apparently it's quite a brittle wood. It may be
> there's little cross-grain structure to hold it together. ...

But... but it's beautiful...
Nuts. I was hoping I could blame my tools. Thanks for the confirmation.
265968 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑05‑29 Re: Sharpening Scissors
On 2018-05-29 1:30 PM, gtgrouch@r... wrote:
> Among other things, this is why I polish the surfaces that slide against one
another.
>
> I am clearly in the minority, so your experience may vary.

I'm inclined to agree. If they're not working well and cutting air a few 
times makes no difference, then something needs to be done to adjust 
their attitude. To state the obvious, I would lubrificate them first. 
That's a word, isn't it? A nice light oil. And cut air some.

Then I would mark the mating surfaces with a Sharpie, cut air a couple 
of times, and examine to identify any problem areas that might benefit 
from the careful touch of a stone. Repeat process as necessary.

And if that fails... Check for curvature. Are one or both of the shears 
bent in a way they ought not to be? Consider straightening or adjusting 
by way of the application of brute force - ie in your vise. This is not 
quick and easy, and may not give perfect results, but you may possibly 
achieve some improvement if you go about it a bit at a time. OR you may 
break them...

FWIW

Don

-- 

“It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”

“The events of the world do not form an orderly queue like the English, they
crowd around chaotically like the Italians.” Carlo Rovelli
266101 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑12 Re: Sharpening Pinch Dogs?
On 2018-07-12 3:01 PM, Micah Salb wrote:
> Does anyone know whether pinch dogs need to be sharpened; if so, how you know
whether they need sharpening; and how to sharpen them?

Somebody may know, but not me. I'd suggest going by the motto 'If it's 
not broken, don't mess with it' .Try using them to clamp a test joint in 
scrap. If they go in easily, hold well and don't split the wood, they're 
fine the way they are.

FWIW

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266145 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑22 Re: Story Sticks, Tick Sticks and Story Poles
On 2018-07-21 3:41 PM, Pete via OldTools wrote:
> Author and cabinetmaker Jim Tolpin, who calls them "story poles", goes into
great detail about them and how they're used in his 1994 Taunton Press book book
"Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets" (ISBN 1-56158-058-9).
>   

I might be interesting to compare Tolpin's account with Jere Cary's. But 
I only have the latter.

Do

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266183 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑26 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On 2018-07-23 11:06 AM, Andrew B. wrote:
> All,
>
> just noticed that Wiktor is apparently shutting down his site
> http://www.wkfinetools.com/ at the end of this month.  I need a panic
> button.
>
> Andrew
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

The site is apparently gone.  Truly a loss for hand-tool woodworkers and 
collectors of old tools.

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266184 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑26 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On 2018-07-26 12:30 PM, Paul Drake wrote:
> I'm not dead yet!
>
> It's still there for me.


Except for a few top-level pages, all I can get now is "Bad Request 
(Invalid Hostname)"

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266185 Paul Drake <bdbafh@g...> 2018‑07‑26 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Ok, thanks.
266186 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑26 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Up again!
Don

On 2018-07-26 1:05 PM, Paul Drake wrote:
> Ok, thanks.
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018, 3:01 PM Don Schwartz  <mailto:dks@t...>> wrote:
>
>     On 2018-07-26 12:30 PM, Paul Drake wrote:
>     > I'm not dead yet!
>     >
>     > It's still there for me.
>
>
>     Except for a few top-level pages, all I can get now is "Bad Request
>     (Invalid Hostname)"
>
>     Don
>
>     -- 
>     “Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy
>     it takes ages.” Voltaire
>
>     “A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
>     re-arranging their prejudices.” William James
>

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266187 Mike Rock <mikerock@m...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Is anyone having any luck mirroring his site?  I have tried three 
separate programs to copy all the data and so far no joy..at all.

Don, any more ideas?

God bless
266188 Paul Drake <bdbafh@g...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Httrack web site copier on android worked for me.

Paul
266189 Paul Drake <bdbafh@g...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Er, it had errors with subdomains.
266190 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On 2018-07-26 7:19 PM, Mike Rock wrote:
> Is anyone having any luck mirroring his site?  I have tried three 
> separate programs to copy all the data and so far no joy..at all.
>
> Don, any more ideas?

Frayed knot.

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266191 Greg Jones <gregj96@c...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Hi Don,

I used sitesucker on Mac to do it, but the magic is that you need to 
grab all of the subdomains to get everything. When you browse your local 
copies, you'll need to know which subdomain you want to look at unless 
you spend some time fixing the local html.

wkfinetools.com
contrib1.wkfinetools.com
contrib2.wkfinetools.com
huk1.wkfinetools.com
hus-boringt.wkfinetools.com
hus-saws1.wkfinetools.com
library.wkfinetools.com
otools1.wkfinetools.com
tmaking.wkfinetools.com
trestore.wkfinetools.com
wworking.wkfinetools.com

Give that a try.

Greg
in Fishers, IN
266192 paul womack <pwomack@p...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
Greg Jones wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> I used sitesucker on Mac to do it, but the magic is that you need to grab all
of the subdomains to get everything. When you browse your local copies, you'll
need to know which subdomain you want to look at unless you spend some time
fixing the local html.
>
> wkfinetools.com
> contrib1.wkfinetools.com
> contrib2.wkfinetools.com
> huk1.wkfinetools.com
> hus-boringt.wkfinetools.com
> hus-saws1.wkfinetools.com
> library.wkfinetools.com
> otools1.wkfinetools.com
> tmaking.wkfinetools.com
> trestore.wkfinetools.com
> wworking.wkfinetools.com

On Linux, wget can retrieve from multiple domains AND
updated the links for you:

https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html

https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html#Spanning-Hosts
https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html#Recursive-Retrieval-Options

  BugBear
266193 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On 2018-07-27 9:27 AM, paul womack wrote:
> Greg Jones wrote:
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> I used sitesucker on Mac to do it, but the magic is that you need to 
>> grab all of the subdomains to get everything. When you browse your 
>> local copies, you'll need to know which subdomain you want to look at 
>> unless you spend some time fixing the local html.
>>
>> wkfinetools.com
>> contrib1.wkfinetools.com
>> contrib2.wkfinetools.com
>> huk1.wkfinetools.com
>> hus-boringt.wkfinetools.com
>> hus-saws1.wkfinetools.com
>> library.wkfinetools.com
>> otools1.wkfinetools.com
>> tmaking.wkfinetools.com
>> trestore.wkfinetools.com
>> wworking.wkfinetools.com
>
> On Linux, wget can retrieve from multiple domains AND
> updated the links for you:
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html#Spanning-Hosts
> https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html#Recursive-
Retrieval-Options">https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/wget.html#Recursive-
Retrieval-Options
>
>
>  BugBear

How big is all together?

Don

-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266194 Greg Jones <gregj96@c...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On 7/27/18 11:50 AM, Don Schwartz wrote:

> How big is all together?
> 
> Don
> 

Including all of the PDFs of catalogs, it's ~13.5GB.

Greg
266195 Mike Rock <mikerock@m...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
In Windoze it's 17Gb total.   My brother has it captured now.  It is, as 
someone found, 11 sites in total.

I don't know how to host such a site, computers are NOT my thing.
What should we do with all this 'stuff'?
266196 Bill Traynor <bill@w...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On 07/27/2018 02:03 PM, Mike Rock wrote:
> In Windoze it's 17Gb total.   My brother has it captured now.  It is, 
> as someone found, 11 sites in total.
>
> I don't know how to host such a site, computers are NOT my thing.
> What should we do with all this 'stuff'?

Wouldn't we need Wiktor's approval to rehost his site?  The footer on 
his site states:

Copyright © 2005-2018, wkFineTools.com and Wiktor Kuc.  All Rights 
Reserved.  Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their 
respective owners.
No part of the content from this website can be reproduced by any means 
without specific permission of the publisher.
266197 Dragon List <dragon01list@g...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
from everything i have read, including from scott grandstaff, wiktor isn't
in touch.  but yeah, it seems his permission is needed (certainly on an
ethical basis, if not a legal one).

thanks to all who saved it, i certainly hope it can be reborn on someone
else's server.

bill
felton ,ca
266198 Brian Welch <brian.w.welch@g...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Bill wrote:

> from everything i have read, including from scott grandstaff, wiktor isn't
> in touch.


Wierd.  Just yesterday on Facebook Wiktor posted this link to a new article
on his site (after announcing 7/18 that the site was going away):
http://contrib2.wkfinetools.com/brittA/pigSticker/pigStickers-01.asp

Brian
Holden, MA
266203 Steve Jones <stjones@k...> 2018‑07‑27 Re: WK Fine Tools shutting down 7/31!
I emailed Wiktor a few days ago (address on the site) asking about moving
the content as a static archive. He seemed open to the possibility, but
after I poked around and got an idea of the underlying complexity of the
site, I bowed out. I retired from doing and teaching web and software
development four years ago and have forgotten too much. Besides, now that
I'm retired, I don't have the time!

I'd sure like to see someone undertake it though.
266236 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑07‑30 Re: Wiktor Kuc's Site
Hi Jeff:

Welcome to the porch. As you're a newbie here, I'm assuming you're not 
aware of an existing wiki which was started some years ago. There has 
not been much activity on it, perhaps because list members are already 
busy with more projects than they can juggle, and possibly because they 
weren't wanting to learn the interface. There has been much discussion 
in the past over the merits of alternate forms which the porch might 
take, but the consensus seems to be that most porch-dwellers ( myself 
included ) are happy with the plain-text mail-list format. In any case, 
the existing wiki can be found at

http://galootopedia.com/old-tools_wiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages

As of May 2015, it was residing on Brian Rytel's website. I'm not sure 
that that is still the case. No doubt Chris Swingley can provide 
information in that respect.

On 2018-07-29 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Mace wrote:
>   Hi All,
>
> I'm new to the list. I do some tool restoration and am a novice but avid
> woodworker. I was searching online about Wiktor Kuc's website closing down
> and came across this mailing list.
>
> I, too, was disappointed to see the site going down. And I set out to solve
> for the problem of a website popping up, amassing a valuable set of
> information about historic tools, and then shutting down.
>
> I've done a bit of website work in the past. Today, I took a few hours and
> launched http://wiki-tool.org. If anyone has ever used Wikipedia, I used
> the same open-source software to launch WikiTool <http://wiki-tool.org/>.
> My hope is that over time, people fill this site with valuable tool
> information for all.
>
> For now, I'm funding this site. It's not burdensome, I think it ran me $50
> to get going this morning. In the coming months, I hope to do two things to
> solve the 'ownership' issue associated with domains, hosting, and funding.
> First, I'll either set up a non-profit or find a non-profit to steward the
> organizational matters and prevent any individual from 'owning' the
> content. Second, I'll put in some donation plugin that allows the site to
> take donations and self fund.
>
> I'm interested in thoughts, comments, criticism, etc. that may help make
> the site better. And of course, spread the word about WikiTool
> <http://wiki-tool.org/>. If you have any questions, let me know.
>
> Jeff Mace
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
>
> To read the FAQ:
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>
> OldTools@s...


-- 
“Error flies from mouth to mouth, from pen to pen, and to destroy it takes
ages.” Voltaire

“A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely re-arranging
their prejudices.” William James
266294 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑08‑03 Re: Venting- wkfinetools
On 2018-08-02 3:29 PM, Joshua Clark wrote:
> I hoped the Wayback machine would have archived it but it
> looks like it didn't (or couldn't) store any of the ASP content.


 From what I saw, there's not very much of his site on the Wayback. Lots 
of snapshots, but that's all. Unless I missed something...

Don

-- 
Nullius in verba  ( Take nobody’s word. )
motto of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge

“The information we consume matters just as much as the food we put in our body.
It affects our
thinking, our behavior, how we understand our place in the world. And how we
understand others.” — Evan Williams
266548 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑09‑19 Re: Galoot Timeline Project
On 2018-09-19 4:09 PM, leeburk--- via OldTools wrote:
> I have a door knocker in the shape of a red-headed woodpecker that is properly
painted and mounted on a square of wood (for it to peck knock on.)
> I never did get around to attaching the pull-cord which one uses to get Woody
to knock.
> I made this in the second grade in 1951.
> I am 74 y.o. now.
> I have rescued it from the trash several times - wife's indiscretion ya know.
>
> I intend to finish it . . . someday.  No hurry as I have a number of projects.
>
That's almost worth carbon-dating!
The competitive streak in me, such as it is, would like to one-up this 
but, unfortunately, I cannot.
I don't believe in confession anyway, so I'll just sit quietly and enjoy.

Don

-- 
Nullius in verba  ( Take nobody’s word. )
motto of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge

“The information we consume matters just as much as the food we put in our body.
It affects our
thinking, our behavior, how we understand our place in the world. And how we
understand others.” — Evan Williams
266596 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑09‑27 Re: re screw holding power
On 2018-09-26 5:54 PM, ecoyle@t... wrote:
> Some time ago FWW did a test of holding power of screws vs bolts and found
that bolts have greater holding power, but of course you have to drill
appropriate size pilot holes

Lee Valley published a report years ago on the superior holding power of 
machine screws over wood screws. I have followed their advice with good 
results, using ordinary metal taps and bottoming taps in oak, for 
example. This was particularly useful in securing hardware to 3/4in 
rails on a bedframe, where there was not much thickness for purchase, 
and I didn't have to worry about the points peeking through!

FWIW

Don

-- 
Nullius in verba  ( Take nobody’s word. )
motto of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge

“The information we consume matters just as much as the food we put in our body.
It affects our
thinking, our behavior, how we understand our place in the world. And how we
understand others.” — Evan Williams
266623 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑09‑28 Re: paint strippers
On 2018-09-27 5:21 PM, Cal Meier wrote:
> I have not run down to check the shelves, but apparently Sherwin Williams,
Home Depot, and Lowe’s will stop carrying strippers with methylene chloride.

Yes, According to what I've read, the activists are now pressuring Ace 
Hardware.

Don

-- 
Nullius in verba  ( Take nobody’s word. )
motto of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge

“The information we consume matters just as much as the food we put in our body.
It affects our
thinking, our behavior, how we understand our place in the world. And how we
understand others.” — Evan Williams
266633 scott grandstaff <scottg@s...> 2018‑09‑28 Re: paint strippers
will stop carrying strippers with methylene chloride.
>
Yeah I keep some of this stuff. I use it.  Didn't like it, but needs must.
    I mostly avoid it.  Its about my least favorite.
I am pretty comfortable with a wide host of liquids.  Acids, base, 
pretty much all thinners.
I keep a little bit, of a whole lots of things on hand in my life. Each 
chemical works the best at its particular job.
  And methychlor, dislike it or not, is one I do need occasionally, and 
have to keep a bit on hand   So, it sounds like I better get another 
pint of it and put it aside before they take it off the market?
(10 year supply) hehhehe

I have a lot of other ways to get paint off
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/paintscraper1.jpg
  http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/paintsc
raper4.jpg">http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/paints
craper4.jpg
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/scrape1.jpg
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/scrape4.jpg
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/scrape5.jpg
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/scrape8.jpg
http://users.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/images/hometools/scrap12.jpg

      yours Scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
266737 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑10‑10 Re: Finishing Question?
On 2018-10-09 7:18 PM, Bill Ghio via OldTools wrote:
> I scrubbed them w/ TSP today and got all the debris & loose stuff off. They
will need a finish to seal them up tight. All I can think of is shellac or
poly.Don’t want it to be too bright. Dull and flat is best.

Suggest you try shellac samples until you get the sheen you want. It 
dries fast, so you can do quick tests. Try 3M pads, steel wool. Poly 
would probably work too, but maybe take more work and more time drying.

FWIW

Don

-- 
Nullius in verba  ( Take nobody’s word. )
motto of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge

“The information we consume matters just as much as the food we put in our body.
It affects our
thinking, our behavior, how we understand our place in the world. And how we
understand others.” — Evan Williams
267029 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑11‑10 Re: THreads
I have the article from LV's Woodcuts in pdf form, if anyone else needs it.

Don

On 2018-11-09 8:31 PM, Ed Minch wrote:
> GGG
>
> A few years ago someone posted a study of the strength of tapped bolt threads
in wood.  It was surprisingly high if I recall.  Does anyone remember the
publication that it was in?
>
> Ed Minch
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
>
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
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> To read the FAQ:
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>
> OldTools@s...


-- 
Let's make Norheim great again. ( Norsemen )

I am not going bloody bald. I have a very big brain. ( Upstart Crow )

I am not going bald. I have very low eyebrows. ( Upstart Crow )
267433 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑12‑27 Re: Brass mallet
On 2018-12-27 1:07 p.m., Bill Ghio via OldTools wrote:
> Just before Christmas SWMBO and I spent a day antiquing. I found a piece I
just could not resist — well, actually several, but just one for this post. It’s
a brass head mallet, 13 inches at the handle and 4 inches across the faces.
Weight is almost 2 pounds. The faces are leather covered. The dealer’s label
identified it as a "blacksmith’s hammer used for polishing metal.” Considering
that the leather faces are held on w/ about 12 nails, I don't see much polishing
going on and I’m sure our blacksmith contingent will have other objections to
the probability of that use as well.
>
> The name stamped on it is C.W. Neely and that looks more like an owner’s stamp
than a manufacture’s stamp. The top face of leather was nailed over a thicker
face of leather. All nailed into a wood stuffing and it was a bear to remove.
The stuffing is flush with the brass and I believe it should sit proud of the
brass to avoid to the brass and/or the object being struck. So I have pulled the
wood stuffing out too. There are a lot of hammer strikes on the lower surface of
both heads (second pic from last) which appear to have been used to help secure
the wood infill as that surface now curves inward. Replacing the wood will be a
challenge for this reason as well as the fact that the back of the cavity is,
for want of a better descriptor, roughly pyramidal.
>
> A couple of questions:
>
> What wood should I use as a replacement? Looking at my stash, I have Osage
Orange, Locust, Ipe, Walnut, Cherry & Maple in the 6/4 that will be required to
create an end grain surface. What is best? The first three are very hard and
will wear well, but perhaps a bit softer will be better.
>
> How proud should it be? I am thinking 1/4 inch with a chamfer should give me a
safe surface but one that will be well enough supported not to crumble.
>
> Or is the leather really appropriate?
>
> Anybody have experience with one of these mallets? This is the first I have
seen and it just looked like something that needs to be put to use.
>
> Pics are at:https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../sets/72157705
086163074/with/44673117520/">at:https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../sets
/72157705086163074/with/44673117520/

Nice find!

I have the LV plane hammer, which came with a maple insert. I replaced 
it  once or twice with maple, but most recently upgraded the insert with 
an offcut scrap (? ) of lignum vitae from an old lawn bowl. It seems to 
be standing up, though I haven't used it much since making the replacement.

FWIW. Belated Merry Christmas and Happy Hannukah!

Don

-- 
Being offended doesn't make you right.

Let's make Norheim great again. ( Norsemen )

I am not bald. I have a tall face. ( Upstart Crow )

I am not going bald. I have very low eyebrows. ( Upstart Crow )

I am not going bloody bald. I have a very big brain. ( Upstart Crow )
267434 Christopher Dunn <christopherdunn123@g...> 2018‑12‑28 Re: Brass mallet
Bill

I forgot to mention, I have a Marples carpenter mallet that I've used
heavily for five years or more. The edges have some chips, but has
held up well. I think it's beech. LN uses hornbeam for their mortising
chisels. I own the 1/2" wide one, and it's held up even better than
the mallet. No chips or cracks.

I'd have it stick out more than 1/4". The wood gets compressed after
use and 1/4" will turn into 1/8" or less. You don't want to dent the
brass with a poorly aimed blow.

Thanks,
Chris
267438 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2018‑12‑28 Re: Brass mallet
On 2018-12-27 5:26 p.m., Christopher Dunn wrote:
> I'd have it stick out more than 1/4". The wood gets compressed after
> use and 1/4" will turn into 1/8" or less.

I think I had the maple on the plane hammer about 1/4in proud, but found 
it quickly got compressed tapping plane irons etc. I left the lignum 
vitae protruding even more.

Don

-- 
Being offended doesn't make you right.

Let's make Norheim great again. ( Norsemen )

I am not bald. I have a tall face. ( Upstart Crow )

I am not going bald. I have very low eyebrows. ( Upstart Crow )

I am not going bloody bald. I have a very big brain. ( Upstart Crow )
267440 Bill Ghio 2018‑12‑28 Re: Brass mallet
> On Dec 28, 2018, at 1:45 AM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-12-27 5:26 p.m., Christopher Dunn wrote:
>> I'd have it stick out more than 1/4". The wood gets compressed after
>> use and 1/4" will turn into 1/8" or less.
> 
> I think I had the maple on the plane hammer about 1/4in proud, but found it
quickly got compressed tapping plane irons etc. I left the lignum vitae
protruding even more.
> 

I think I have a piece of Lignum that might be large enough for one face. If
not, I think I’ll go w/ Osage for one face then something softer for the other.
Choice is always good.

Thanks to all for the good info.

Bill
267566 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑01‑09 Re: Rust removal from needle files
On 2019-01-09 11:32 a.m., curt seeliger wrote:
> Good day, folks. Do any of you have experience staking rust from fine
> needle files -- #4 & #6 cut? I imagine I can drop them in vinegar or citric
> acid, bu am wondering if that would damage the fine teeth.


I think the acid would sharpen the teeth. But for rust removal, I'd use 
evaporust.

Don

-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must have
something to be said on both sides,
  and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.

Being offended doesn't make you right.
267588 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑01‑10 Re: Rust removal from needle files
On 2019-01-10 8:26 a.m., Michael Blair wrote:
> De-rusted over 100 of the buggers a couple of years ago.  They came 
> out fine.  Thought of writing about it under the title of "Vinegar and 
> Oil for a Hundred."  Eric Sloane mentioned using cider vinegar in one 
> of his books, and I tried it out over a dozen years ago. Worked.  
> White vinegar works just as well (there's a "cleaning white vinegar" 
> that's slightly stronger).  I've tried Evaporust but found it works no 
> better than vinegar though it costs a lot more. 


No doubt it works. But vinegar is acid. It will indiscriminately attack 
good metal as well as rust. Not sure that's desirable. If the files are 
dull, vinegar might be the thing to do. But how will you know that 
before the rust is removed? I will stick with my method of de-rusting 
first, then checking the files to see if they're sharp before subjecting 
them to an acid bath. No, Evaporust isn't cheap. But neither are good files!

FWIW

Don

-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must have
something to be said on both sides,
  and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.

Being offended doesn't make you right.
267601 David Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2019‑01‑11 Re: Rust removal from needle files
Don makes a good point. Scrape the rust off of the file with whatever method you
prefer before immersing it in any acid. The rust will block the action of the
acid and create pits in the steel where the acid can attack the uncovered steel.
Much better to prevent the rust in the first place but if that was easy we would
all be doing it already.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Don Schwartz<mailto:dks@t...>

No doubt it works. But vinegar is acid. It will indiscriminately attack
good metal as well as rust. Not sure that's desirable. If the files are
dull, vinegar might be the thing to do. But how will you know that
before the rust is removed? I will stick with my method of de-rusting
first, then checking the files to see if they're sharp before subjecting
them to an acid bath. No, Evaporust isn't cheap. But neither are good files!
267668 curt seeliger <seeligerc@g...> 2019‑01‑15 Re: Rust removal from needle files
Thank you all for weighing in.
So I went with evaporust, being nervous about an acids effect on such fine
teeth. Several hours in a coldish garage works well; I just put a few back
that didn't get enough time. There didn't seem to be any value in cleaning
grooves first with brass, maybe because they are so fine and difficult to
follow that the grooves just clog. The portions with rust are darker but
with little noticable loss in cutting ability. They are still quite
serviceable, and now oiled as well.

On Jan 11, 2019 1:34 AM, "David Nighswander" 
wrote:

Don makes a good point. Scrape the rust off of the file with whatever
method you prefer before immersing it in any acid. The rust will block the
action of the acid and create pits in the steel where the acid can attack
the uncovered steel. Much better to prevent the rust in the first place but
if that was easy we would all be doing it already.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10

From: Don Schwartz<mailto:dks@t...>


No doubt it works. But vinegar is acid. It will indiscriminately attack
good metal as well as rust. Not sure that's desirable. If the files are
dull, vinegar might be the thing to do. But how will you know that
before the rust is removed? I will stick with my method of de-rusting
first, then checking the files to see if they're sharp before subjecting
them to an acid bath. No, Evaporust isn't cheap. But neither are good files!


------------------------------------------------------------------------
OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.

To change your subscription options:
https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools

To read the FAQ:
https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html

OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/

OldTools@s...
267683 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑01‑21 Re: Screwbox Problems
On 2019-01-21 11:21 a.m., Micah Salb wrote:
> Folks:
> I have a screwbox.  I tried to use my screwbox.  I made a mess.  The screwbox
did not put threads on my cherry spindle-it just made the spindle raggedy and
thinner.
> What goes?


Micah

I suspect your cutter may be set rank, making too deep a cut. It may 
also be dull or malformed.

You might have a look here for references: 
http://galootopedia.com/old-tools_wiki/index.php?title=Wooden_Screws

Don

-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must have
something to be said on both sides,
  and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.

Being offended doesn't make you right.
267684 Charles Stroom <charles@s...> 2019‑01‑21 Re: Screwbox Problems
Quoting from FWW #27 in Methods of Work:
"To cut perfect wooden threads, immerse the dowel in hot paraffin for
10 minutes prior to threading.  Thread when the dowel is still warm.
The shavings roll out of the die in a neat string, leaving a perfect
thread base".
Never tried it myself, but had difficulties to make a good thread on a
threading metal lathe.  So will try it the next time.

Charles



On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 13:39:52 -0700
Don Schwartz  wrote:

> On 2019-01-21 11:21 a.m., Micah Salb wrote:
> > Folks:
> > I have a screwbox.  I tried to use my screwbox.  I made a mess.
> > The screwbox did not put threads on my cherry spindle-it just made
> > the spindle raggedy and thinner. What goes?  
> 
> 
> Micah
> 
> I suspect your cutter may be set rank, making too deep a cut. It may 
> also be dull or malformed.
> 
> You might have a look here for references: 
> http://galootopedia.com/old-tools_wiki/index.php?title=Wooden_Screws
> 
> Don
> 
> -- 
> A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe
> 
> A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row
> must have something to be said on both sides, and a proper issue in
> the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the Crafts', in The
> Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.
> 
> Being offended doesn't make you right.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> OldTools is a mailing list catering to the interests of hand tool
> aficionados, both collectors and users, to discuss the history, usage,
> value, location, availability, collectibility, and restoration of
> traditional handtools, especially woodworking tools.
> 
> To change your subscription options:
> https://oldtools.swingleydev.com/mailman/listinfo/oldtools
> 
> To read the FAQ:
> https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
> 
> OldTools archive: https://swingleydev.com/ot/
> 
> OldTools@s...


-- 
Charles Stroom
email: charles at no-spam.stremen.xs4all.nl (remove the "no-spam.")
267727 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2019‑01‑25 Re: curly maple
Ed:

Here is a link to the guitar maker I mentioned yesterday.  Some of the most
important concert guitarists, such as Angel Romero and Elliot Fisk are playing
his  instruments:

http://connorguitars.com/guitar_model/angel_model.html

His approach has evolved since I played one of his earlier models.  The one I
played 20 years ago had smaller, round holes in the shoulder, like the one in
that photo of your Australian friend's instrument.  As you can see in these pix,
Connor these days has virtually opened the shoulder.  Very interesting.

To see this in the work of two high-end custom luthiers, and endorsed by the
best players in the world, tells me that this is an important development.

J

Joseph Sullivan
267730 "Joseph Sullivan" <joe@j...> 2019‑01‑25 Re: curly maple
Ed said

Joe

 

The small, silver dollar sized hole that points up at the player on the side
seems to be gaining popularity.  Like galoots, ask 10 luthiers a question and
you will get 11 answers, but most seem to think it helps for quiet playing, but
once you start banging on the guitar there is not much difference.  Also, a
couple of tests I have read about say that there is no reduction in sound
towards the front through the bjg hole.  There are also several guitars that
have asymmetric holes but I have seen no reports of really different sound.

 

END SNIP

 

 

 

 

 

Having played one years ago with a hole smaller than a silver dollar, I can
attest that the volume and tone FOR THE PLAYER are considerably better.
Startlingly so.  Ask your daughter.  Most of the beauty of the voice of the
guitar goes out away from the instrument, and the player is behind it.  I always
find it a real treat to hear someone else play my guitars, because I never get
to fully enjoy the sound when I play.

 

Of course, nylon-strung guitars rarely get whanged  or played with picks.  You
lose tone that way.  I play  finger-style folk and country without picks, and of
course, “classical” with he same pick-less fingers and nails.  I can vary volume
quite a bit, but only really hit the strings in certain emphatic passages.  This
is true from Johnny Cash to Dylan to Peter, Paul and Mary, to Tarrega to Bach.
About the hardest I push them is with a flamenco-ish “rasgueado” finger roll.
For guys like me and the guys and gals we hope someday to sound like, tone is
everything, and there is a growing consensus that those shoulder holes do affect
tone in a pleasing way.

 

J

 

Joseph Sullivan
267784 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2019‑02‑02 Re: Push Drill Question
On 2019-02-02 12:28 p.m., RH wrote:
> So . . . I have this old push drill and a few bits in it.  (I have 
> more bits somewhere).  The drill is a bit grungy.  I think it needs a 
> good cleaning and a wee bit of lubrication.  I see only 1 screw on the 
> middle barrel near the bit end.  I have not tried to take it out 
> choosing first to consult the Galooterati in search of wisdom.
>
> How would you go about disassembling - if you would - this tool, 
> cleaning it and lubricating it.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Bob Hutchins 

Bob: I expect the experts will want make & model - and maybe a photo 
before providing detailed info. I would start by cleaning the exposed 
portion of a reciprocating drill with a brass brush, tooth brush, rags 
and WD40 or something similar, repeating as long as it seems worthwhile. 
That's all I've ever really had to do.

FWIW

Don

-- 
A thermometer is not liberal or conservative. - Katharine Hayhoe

A good row does wonders for raising interest, and to be 'good' a row must have
something to be said on both sides,
  and a proper issue in the middle." - Rosemary Hill, 'Writing About the
Crafts', in The Culture of Craft, Peter Dormer, ed.

Being offended doesn't make you right.
267785 Erik Levin 2019‑02‑02 Re: Push Drill Question
Bob asked:

> How would you go about disassembling - if you would - this tool


It depends on the make and model, but the most common yankees (41, 44, &c) are
similar, and other makes will, of necessity, have common features.

I will speak directly to the 41,a s that is what I am looking at right now...


When you remove the screw, the chuck may or may not come out. The spring bears
against the back of the chuck body, so when pulling, hold the unit horizontally
in soft material and pull gently. Pull by the exposed body (I ude thin leather
to pad), not the collar. Usually, some heat (heat gun) is needed to grow the
rotating tube off od a mild friction fit. Ditto putting it back together.

Once the chuck is off, the knurled ring at where the rotating tube enters the
body tube can be unscrewed (again, a little heat may help), slid off, and the
handle can be removed.


The top of the spring is guided (and rotation is eased) by an oiled wood rivet-
shaped (headed) pin.


I pull the spring and pin, wipe off grunge, clean the spring and oil with light
micrometer oil, and clean any other parts as needed.


Removal of the rotating tube requires removal of the top of the unit. IIRC (I
won't pull a good tool apart that far right now), there is a male helix attached
to the head of the tool, and the rotating tube has a female helix inside it. I
generally flush the unit lightly with spirits from the oil hole that is normally
covered by the handle, and when it comes out clean, a little light oil goes in
to lube the helix. Again, IIRC, the top comes off by driving out the pin that
aligns the handle when closed, but again, I am not going there right now.


You can work the circular spring clip that holds the washer at the top free, but
it will get caught in the next groove (the handle locking groove) if you try to
slide it past that point. Unless removing the top or there is a real need to get
in and clean there, I'd just leave it.



The 44 is similar (release spring tension at the top for a less dangerous chuck
removal), and most, but not all, other makes and models I have cleaned or
repaired expose the spring and helix by chuck removal.


Be careful of the alignment when reinstalling the chuck, and don't crush the
tubes. They aren't very thick,.


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267786 "John M Johnston (jmjhnstn)" <jmjhnstn@m...> 2019‑02‑02 Re: Push Drill Question
Sea Foam Deep Creep is an excellent option for this type of application.

J~

“P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried;
therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.


Bob: I expect the experts will want make & model - and maybe a photo before
providing detailed info. I would start by cleaning the exposed portion of a
reciprocating drill with a brass brush, tooth brush, rags and WD40 or something
similar, repeating as long as it seems worthwhile. That's all I've ever really
had to do.
267787 Erik Levin 2019‑02‑03 Re: Push Drill Question
Google for a pic of a 41. I don't think any other looks like it. 


I would not pull the top off unless I really needed to. Removing the chuck is
easier.


Also, there isn't an oil reservoir, per se. A few drops int the oil hole kind of
works it's way throughout the internals.


As I mentioned before, spirits works well. I flush through the oil hole using a
syringe. WD or sefoam or kroil or any other light mystery juice in an aerosol
can with a small straw will do as well, but cost more. Or, soak in a bucket of
kerosene. That works too.


Also note that the color could be grunge or could be the brass (bronze?) showing
through the shiny coating. The yankees were mostly chromed or nickeled brass.


Every one I have has play. These are not precision mechanisms. If there is too
much, the utility of the tool is compromised, but that is a surprisingly large
amount. There are no seals-- or guides, or bushings in the sense of precision
machinery, for that matter. They are simple and a little sloppy. Fluid goes in,
fluid and crud wash out.


Unless there is an emotional tie to the tool, or it is a special collectable,
don't worry too much. There are a LOT of these out in the wild, and I see them
in good user condition for $US1 or so regularly, which is why I have roughly a
dozen (one in each main kit, two in the shop, plus a few spares in the drawer).
You won't likely damage it, but if you do, it is replaceable.



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On Saturday, February 2, 2019, 7:38:49 PM EST, RH  wrote: 




>Thank you to all who have responded.  The information is great.

>So far, I've used a brass brush and WD40 and removed the top layer of 
grunge.  I also revealed the mark "Yankee 4?" which I take to be a 41.  
I plan to remove the top pin so that I can remove the handle and can 
give it a bit more attention without affecting the other parts.

>I have not tried disassemble it.  After some more cleaning, I think I'll 
flush the oil reservoir with ? . . .   mineral spirits maybe?  Then 
refill it with light machine oil.

>The rotating/retracting lower shaft seems to be colored much like the 
oil dip stick in a car engine with a brownish stain.  I noticed that 
each time I rotated and retracted that shaft, I was getting a dark brown 
liquid until I depleted it.  My guess is that the WD40 got up into the 
working chamber and washed out some old oil.  Should the seals prevent 
any liquid getting in or out?

>There is a small amount of 'play' in the mechanism.  It's not sloppy, 
but I can rotate it about 1/8" holding each end.  Is this anything to be 
concerned about?

>Again, thank you for all the pointers.

>Bob Hutchins
>Temple, TX

On 2/2/2019 4:10 PM, Erik Levin via OldTools wrote:
> Bob asked:
>
>> How would you go about disassembling - if you would - this tool
>
.
.
.
274897 Dennis Heyza <michigaloot@c...> 2021‑12‑06 Re: Moulding Plane question,,,, Specifically, how do the wedges fit?
A good book is 'Making Traditional Wooden Planes' by Joh Whelan (Astragal
Press). Looks like you can get one new from Amazon(!) or  AbeBooks has used
copies for between $20 and $25.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Heyza  
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 3:20 PM
To: 'Frank Filippone' ; 'Tools Old' 
Subject: RE: [oldtools] Moulding Plane question,,,, Specifically, how do the
wedges fit?

Frank,

Flatsawn is fine. Fitting for a dado plane is a little trickier due to the
skewed iron. What you want is good contact across the length of the iron and a
tight fit front to back (no wobble).

Dennis Heyza
New Baltimore MI

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools@g...  On Behalf Of Frank Filippone
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 2:08 PM
To: Tools Old 
Subject: Re: [oldtools] Moulding Plane question,,,, Specifically, how do the
wedges fit?

Thanks for the confirmation, Kirk and Matthew.  .... I have 2 planes, and 1 set
of wedges.... On the wedges I do have, they seem to fit not so well.  They jerk
when tapped in place.  I think the problem is the thickness, so now that I snow
I can take off a shaving on the width ( which will also flatten the wedge a bit,
as the problem may be warpage of the wedge rather than too thick.)

The original wedges will act as a starting pattern for the missing ones....

last (?) question:  what is the proper grain orientation for the wedges?  I seem
to think that quarter sawn would be the best.... flat sawn the worst....

This is as looking at the flat side of the wedge....

Sorry that I do not have a book to help me on this... can anyone name a
reference book that would help me?

Frank Filippone

BMWRed735i@G...
274907 Frank Filippone <bmwred735i@g...> 2021‑12‑08 Re: Moulding Plane question,,,, Specifically, how do the wedges fit?
I would like to thank everyone for their responses.  It is pretty amazing the
amount of information that resides in this community.

AND the willingness to help others down that new to them slippery slope.

Frank Filippone

BMWRed735i@G...
275385 Dennis Heyza <michigaloot@c...> 2022‑03‑27 Re: milk paint?
Thanks to everyone who provided feedback. In addition to two (actual) milk
paint options, folks have suggested General Finishes (not a true milk paint
but good results), chalk paint topped with shellac, and linseed oil paint.
Lots to think about. Despite my hesitancy to waste money, I may try a couple
of these on some scrap wood before making a final decision.

 

I hope to have the table complete by the end of April. pictures to follow.

 

Dennis

 

From: Dennis Heyza  
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2022 10:37 AM
To: Oldtools 
Subject: milk paint?

 

I'm currently working on a tavern table. The top will be curly maple, the
legs/aprons/stretchers (painted) poplar. I want to use milk paint, which
will be a new experience for me. I see three supplier options: Old Fashioned
(powdered form, comes in a bag), Real Milk Paint (powdered form, comes in a
can), and General Finishes (premixed). Wondering if anyone has experience
with any of these and can provide advise as to satisfaction/application.

 

Dennis Heyza

New Baltimore, MI

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